Author Topic: Aidan Pryde  (Read 1909 times)

TS_Hawk

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Aidan Pryde
« on: 22 May 2013, 16:01:22 »
Why did they make this guy for a clanner so likable.  The type guy you want to root for? 

Anyways now that I have read about him I am curious though why did the other clans covet his genes?  What made him so special that the other clans want to clone him?

Thank you Hikage

Rtifs

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #1 on: 22 May 2013, 16:15:16 »
He’s likable since you get to see what he’s thinking.  It allows you to see the internal struggles that anyone who grows up in a highly institutionalized environment is going to have.  Also, he overcomes the normal results of that and retains his humanity. 

On another note, I think if clanners got more “screen” time in the books, they’d be more likable in general.  That’s what I liked about Stackpole’s books.  He humanized the Wolfs, and to a degree the Falcons through Taman Malthus.  Unfortunately the Jaguars never got any screen time, so the us-vs.-them view of the Jags prevailed.  That’s why they were so easy to demonize and select for annihilation.  If they had more screen time at the individual soldier level they would have been more likeable.

As for coveting his genes… the clans have a competitive eugenics program.  Not sure I’ve ever heard of anyone wanting to clone him though.

A. Lurker

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #2 on: 22 May 2013, 16:21:57 »
Beats me. I mean, sure, we get other characters commenting on him as though he was somehow special, but personally I could just never see it. He may have been something of a misfit who nonetheless managed to claw his way into the warrior caste anyway (not without considerable help), but a particularly great warrior or otherwise rare talent...?

I think to call him that would be giving the average Clan warrior too little credit, because to me that's what Aidan always was: ultimately just a pretty average guy who could serve as a viewpoint character through whom new readers could be exposed to the Clans. Most of Aidan's posthumous post-Tukayyid rep arguably stems from his famous last stand there; if he'd somehow made it out alive, chances are excellent that it'd simply have meant going back to life as somebody who gets only grudging respect at best from his peers once more.

The_head_of_Neal

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #3 on: 22 May 2013, 16:40:27 »
"Unfortunately the Jaguars never got any screen time, so the us-vs.-them view of the Jags prevailed.  That’s why they were so easy to demonize and select for annihilation."

That and the fact that I had family on Edo. 

glitterboy2098

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #4 on: 22 May 2013, 16:43:59 »
other clans weren't actually trying to get his gene's. i see where you could get that impression, with how his genetics ended up in the wolf and Jaguar programs, but that wasn't due to them actually wanting them.. it was part of the early signs of the existence of the 'Scientist Caste Conspiracy'.. aka "The Society". the Society had been covertly doing cross clan mixing in each clan's breeding program, towards their own ends.

the Pryde clones were part of the Society's efforts to build their secret army. yes, had that sibko not been found by Peri and revealed to the Falcon leadership, there would have been Adian Pryde clones piloting those Septicemia's..

odds are the Society used his genes because they were not in high demand.

edit: fixed my horrible sentence structure. when i typed this my computer was starting to overheat and 'eat' some of what i typed.. ugh.
« Last Edit: 23 May 2013, 06:40:31 by glitterboy2098 »

TS_Hawk

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #5 on: 22 May 2013, 16:57:12 »
other clans weren't actually trying to get his gene's. i see where you could get that impression, with how his genetics ended up in the wolf and Jaguar programs, but that wasn't due to them actually wanting them.. it was part of the early signs of the existence of the 'Scientist Caste Conspiracy'.. aka "The Society". the Society had been covertly doing cross clan mixing in each clan's breeding program, towards their own ends.

the Pryde clones were part of the Society's efforts  build their secret army. yes, had that sibko not been found by Peri revealed to the clan leadership, there would have been Adian Pryde clones piloting those Septicemia's..

odds are the Society used his genes they were not in high demand.

That makes a lot more sense then.

As for the Jaguars not getting screen time that one guy who sold out the Jags homeworld for the exodus road comes to mind and he just wanted the Jaguars to be what they used too not what they were becoming under Osis rule

Thank you Hikage

rebs

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #6 on: 22 May 2013, 18:53:58 »
Aidan Pryde was audacious and liked to gamble.  He appealed to that type of player, the one who wouldn't want to be restricted by Clan ways like zell (let's face it, calling for zell is what you do when you think you're going to lose.  It's just dressed up as "the honorable thing to do"). 

Likewise, he was a closet intellectual in a society that eschewed higher learning for anyone who was not a scientist.  He also mirrors civil rights figures.  The Trueborn/Freeborn conflict was taken from the pages of recent RL history.  Working and fighting alongside the marginalized freeborns, we got to see him erode the Clans' belief in their eugenics program right from the beginning of the Clans within the BT universe.  The Clans were likened to an alien civilization, yet he showed that they are still human and struggle with many of the same issues we've always struggled with - which, of course, is the theme of this game in general.   

His genes were selected by the Society for their use above all other warriors.  I wouldn't simply dismiss that as the only people who wanted his legacy.  It's a mark that there was indeed something superior about him and the people who were in the know went with it. 

Last but not least...  He made the Jade Falcons cool when I was first being introduced to the idea of the Clans.  Because of him, we all got to see that Elias Crichell and Vandervahn Chistu were not representative of their entire Clan.  More than simply having redeeming qualities, he himself was a redeeming quality for his entire Clan.

 
« Last Edit: 22 May 2013, 20:48:17 by rebs »

Archangel

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #7 on: 22 May 2013, 19:51:19 »
the Pryde clones were part of the Society's efforts  build their secret army. yes, had that sibko not been found by Peri revealed to the clan leadership, there would have been Adian Pryde clones piloting those Septicemia's..

Peri found ONE sibko that used Pryde genes that doesn't mean that the Society didn't create other Pryde sibkos.  Numerous sibkos went undiscovered, including several within Clan Jade Falcon, and any of them could have used Pryde genes.

Quote
odds are the Society used his genes they were not in high demand.

Not necessarily.  They had people in positions who worked in the gene storage centers and could easily create copies of any genes they wanted.  The Society had been playing with various bloodlines for generations ("tainting" them) without anybody catching on.  Who would notice if they made copies?  A Clan warrior could have walked in on them while they were doing it and never have realized what they were doing nor cared enough to ask.
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Coldwyn

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #8 on: 22 May 2013, 20:09:59 »
Back in the day, when a buddy of mine told me of the starting clan invasion and we were waiting for sorcebooks and novels to appear about that, I kept thinking about Roy Batty.

A year latter, I read Aidan Pryde.


It took one and a halve novel to kill my interest in the clans forever.
it´s not necessarily that i´m immoral of character, i just don´t take great stock in the morality of others, that´s all

SteelRaven

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #9 on: 22 May 2013, 20:32:01 »
Was never the biggest fan of Thurston's stuff but I can see where he was going with his stories.

Aidan Pryde had 'survival of the fittest' beaten into sense child hood but ended up braking those clan mindsets by using team work and becoming known for his self sacrifice. (kinda kiddy when you think about it)

I Am Jade Falcon- Joanna proves older warriors still can fight, breaking another clan mindset (you would think Natasha Kerensky would have proven that)

Falcon Rising/Freebirth- Freebirths don't suck... though no other Clan really listens to this. Note that Thurston single handedly threw the Steel Vipers under the bus in Falcon Rising.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2013, 21:12:19 by SteelRaven »
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SteelRaven

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #10 on: 22 May 2013, 20:34:04 »
bad post, please delete 
« Last Edit: 22 May 2013, 21:10:46 by SteelRaven »
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E. Icaza

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #11 on: 22 May 2013, 20:54:54 »
Aidan was awesome because he was proof that you could be an excellent Clan warrior and still be relatively conservative.  At no time after becoming a Warrior does Aidan just chuck the rules out of the window, he just bends them until they almost break.  Aidan became a great warrior despite the Clan way, which shows that you don't have to subvert it (Crichell) or outright ignore it whenever it's inconvenient (Phelan) in order to succeed.  If he were a Wolf, his tactics would have been considered routine quite likely, but he became a Warrior, won a Bloodname and rose to become a Legend in one of the more hidebound Clans and did it without doubting that the Way of the Clans was right.

When the chips are down, people like Phelan, Ulric and Natasha looked for loopholes in the Way of the Clans to let them succeed.  Aidan, Horse, Joanna and the others just kept right on plugging, never doubting that they would succeed because they were Clan, not in spite of it.  And I'm not picking on the Wolves here, they're just the ones that we have the most info about apart from the Falcons.

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E. Icaza

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #12 on: 22 May 2013, 20:59:08 »
Bah.  Double post due to computer glitch.  :(
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rebs

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #13 on: 22 May 2013, 21:20:38 »
Falcon Rising/Freebirth- Freebirths don't suck... though no other Clan really listens to this. Note that Thurston single handedly threw the Steel Vipers under the bus in Falcon Rising.

I would bet he was told to throw them under the bus, and didn't just arbitrarily take control and decide that the Steel Vipers were lame and needed to be booted from the invasion.  Just saying. 

If all the authors behaved in ways that users here often ascribe to them, none of us would be here to argue about it, as the whole thing would have collapsed in the mid to late 90's due to "The Wars of Fiat" (AKA, My Fiat Is Bigger Than Your Fiat  :D )

TigerShark

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2013, 21:42:00 »
To say "The Society" is a mistake, in itself. The Society existed as a network of independent cells. What one cell did was completely independent of another; there was no grand, unifying policy about genetics or tech manufacture. They were united in purpose and had a structure, but not as highly coordinated as to be able to make a broad generalization about what "they" did as a whole.
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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #15 on: 22 May 2013, 23:51:28 »
For me, it's funny. I like the Jade Phoenix characters, but I can't stand Thurston as a writer. However, I will echo the sentiments above; Aidan is a useful insight charter into clan thinking and mindset. He was (true)born and raised in that culture, rather then being an outside like Phelan was, so it makes for a very different perspective.

That and he's kind of crazyawesome.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #16 on: 23 May 2013, 01:30:08 »
odds are the Society used his genes they were not in high demand.

The Society was outnumbered compared to the Clan toumans and needed warriors that could defeat large numbers of opponents.

The Society also needed warriors that would remain loyal to them given enough indoctrination, and not the Clans.

Aidan proved that he could be both, to the point of self-sacrifice, on Tukayyid.  Regardless of whether his giftake was in popular demand after Tukayyid, Aidan himself was probably about as close to perfect for the Society's needs as they could find.  Little wonder the Society secretly cloned Aidan.
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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #17 on: 23 May 2013, 01:40:00 »
The view we get of clan warriors in the last real world decade leans more towards Aidan Pryde.  The folks in WoR (good and bad) are much more dynamic and capable of free thought.

Really I think Aidan wasn't odd for the clans, he was just odd for his clan.  If he'd been a Wolf, Horse, or dare I say Adder he would have been much more openly accepted in the first place.


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Greywind

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #18 on: 23 May 2013, 03:00:58 »
That and the fact that I had family on Edo.

"On" Edo? Pretty sure the city of Edo on the planet Turtle Bay got blasted.

Aleksandr

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #19 on: 23 May 2013, 03:11:31 »
For me, it's funny. I like the Jade Phoenix characters, but I can't stand Thurston as a writer.

I agree with this completely. I only read the Jade Phoenix trilogy recently, but I was struck by how horrible some of it was - especially anything involving mech combat. (Seriously, find a fight that isn't ended by multiple headshots. Good luck!)

Aidan himself doesn't really come through until Tukayyid, but the characters around him are great. It's the little things where Aidan and Joanna embarass the other Falcon officers by being fearless and aggressive that really bring the Clan ideal to life, and I think that's what made him so popular.

In-universe, though, he'd have been nothing if he survived Tukayyid. Only in death could anyone reach so high.


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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #20 on: 23 May 2013, 03:22:57 »
In-universe, though, he'd have been nothing if he survived Tukayyid. Only in death could anyone reach so high.

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HikageMaru

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #21 on: 23 May 2013, 03:42:38 »
Why did they make this guy for a clanner so likable.  The type guy you want to root for? 

Meh. I found him and his Horse annoying.

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #22 on: 23 May 2013, 04:22:28 »
I agree with this completely. I only read the Jade Phoenix trilogy recently, but I was struck by how horrible some of it was - especially anything involving mech combat. (Seriously, find a fight that isn't ended by multiple headshots. Good luck!)

Aidan himself doesn't really come through until Tukayyid, but the characters around him are great. It's the little things where Aidan and Joanna embarass the other Falcon officers by being fearless and aggressive that really bring the Clan ideal to life, and I think that's what made him so popular.

In-universe, though, he'd have been nothing if he survived Tukayyid. Only in death could anyone reach so high.

Huh..? Multiple head shots? I can name far more from that trilogy which don't end in head shots. :-\ If you mean during the battles against the Spheroids, they probably were aiming high, as anyone would when faced with a hoard. 1-in-6 chance if aiming high using TacOps :) Not that crazy.
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rebs

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #23 on: 23 May 2013, 11:30:13 »
People are just jealous of his incredible skill with a small laser  ;)

(I jest, but of course, it's kinda true too...)

Archangel

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #24 on: 23 May 2013, 11:33:14 »
What one cell did was completely independent of another...

I disagree.  It is clear that there was considerable cooperation between the various groups - coordinating weapons development, trading weapons technology (how else would the various cells have the same machines, weapons, etc) and genes between Clans. 

Quote
...there was no grand, unifying policy about genetics or tech manufacture. They were united in purpose and had a structure, but not as highly coordinated as to be able to make a broad generalization about what "they" did as a whole.

If they didn't have a unifying philosophy, how were they able to launch a coordinated campaign against the warrior caste?
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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #25 on: 23 May 2013, 13:39:16 »
Aidan's fame came not from his skill or ability, but rather the Falcons needed something to grab onto after Tukayid.  Since he died a heroic death, they chose him and elevated him as a scapegoat to have his legend become something more than what he was.

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #26 on: 23 May 2013, 15:09:09 »
Back in the day, when a buddy of mine told me of the starting clan invasion and we were waiting for sorcebooks and novels to appear about that, I kept thinking about Roy Batty.

A year latter, I read Aidan Pryde.

It took one and a halve novel to kill my interest in the clans forever.

I was only able to get halfway through the first book, and have never went back to finish it or the others.  I have managed to read almost all the other clan-centric books, but it took years before I even tried one.  I just can't make myself read the Aidan Pryde stuff.  I could not find anything in that book that made me want to root for the clans, be interested in them, or read another book.  In fact, the main thing I got out of the book was that the clans were a complete and total failure as a culture, and destroying their entire culture, leaving nothing at all, was something that was needed, wanted, and would improve the lives of all involved.  I never thought for a second that the clans would become primary factions, or that anyone would be capable of rooting for them.  The idea still strikes me as distasteful.
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TS_Hawk

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #27 on: 23 May 2013, 16:07:49 »
I am sorry but this isn't about Thurston and is writing style if you don't like it that is fine with me but the subject on here is about Aidan Pryde and I got the info I needed.  And if you want to discuss about the Society in this thread hey fine with me too but lets not talk about the author because he is not the topic in this thread.

Thank you Hikage

TigerShark

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #28 on: 23 May 2013, 17:41:01 »
I disagree.  It is clear that there was considerable cooperation between the various groups - coordinating weapons development, trading weapons technology (how else would the various cells have the same machines, weapons, etc) and genes between Clans. 

If they didn't have a unifying philosophy, how were they able to launch a coordinated campaign against the warrior caste?

It wasn't highly coordinated. The SLOT virus, for example, was their most effective weapon yet it was not deployed en masse in the Clan Homeworlds. That suggests (and I could be wrong, of course!) that the virus was something that Etienne Balzac's scientists had possession of, but was not widely circulated (or used?) in the Homeworlds. There's evidence that the Grand Council's Bug Eye craft were disabled by it and that the Adders/Vipers were "plagued" by the virus, though nothing like the danger they put the Falcon OZ into.

The same thing goes for the Aidan Pryde clones, which seemed to be another pet project of Balzac's. The majority of the Society warriors were cast-offs, former Coyotes, Burrocks and Bandit Caste members. The Homeworlds didn't see a lot of clone MechWarriors for whatever reason.
« Last Edit: 23 May 2013, 18:00:37 by TigerShark »
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Coldwyn

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Re: Aidan Pryde
« Reply #29 on: 23 May 2013, 17:46:29 »
the subject on here is about Aidan Pryde and I got the info I needed.

It would be fun if you´d share the insights you gleaned from this thread.
it´s not necessarily that i´m immoral of character, i just don´t take great stock in the morality of others, that´s all