Author Topic: Kangaroo  (Read 2398 times)

Lagrange

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Kangaroo
« on: 19 September 2011, 21:34:46 »
A few other people (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,9481.msg224353.html#msg224353, http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,8354.msg192527.html#msg192527) have mentioned the use of mechanical jump boosters on assault mechs, but it's much rare than I expect.  My impression from reading the rules, but not much play testing, is that mechanical jump boosters are potential category killers, especially in a roleplaying game.  In particular, by using many of the rules from tactical ops, it's possible to create a single mech that can fulfill scout, scout killer, harasser, anti-air, and assault roles.  The only situations I can imagine where such a mech isn't outstanding are (a) static defense and (b) high speed (move 12 or higher) roles.

Here's one such design:

Code: [Select]
Kangaroo

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X
Production Year: 0
Cost: 14,352,333 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,829

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 100 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h (21.6 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h (32.4 km/h)
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters / 330 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Lamellor
Armament:
    2  (CL) ER Large Lasers
    1  (CL) Laser Anti-Missile System
    1  ECM Suite
    1  Active Probe
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   152 points                5.00
    Internal Locations: 3 LT, 4 RT
Engine:             Fusion Engine                100                       3.00
    Walking MP: 1 (2)
    Running MP: 2 (3)
    Jumping MP: 0 / 11 Jump Booster
Heat Sinks:         (CL) Double Heat Sink        11(22)                    1.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT
Gyro:               Compact                                                1.50
Cockpit:            Small                                                  2.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
    TSM Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA
Armor:              Ferro-Lamellor               AV - 273                 19.50
    Armor Locations: 6 LA, 6 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     31           45       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  13       
                                           L/R Torso     21           29       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  9         
                                             L/R Arm     17           25       
                                             L/R Leg     21           40       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 (CL) ER Large Lasers                       HD        24        2         8.00
(CL) Targeting Computer                      CT        -         2         2.00
Active Probe                                 RT        0         1         1.00
(CL) Laser Anti-Missile System               LT        5         1         1.00
ECM Suite                                    LT        0         1         1.00
Jump Booster                                 *         -         4        55.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

* The Jump Booster occupies 2 slots in each leg.

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     11    Points: 28
1          3       3       3       0      4     0   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: TSM, AMS, ECM, PRB, RCN, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA

This might seem like a fast undergunned overarmored mech by default, but a few key rules from tac ops are worth remembering.

(1) The linked heat sinks rules, imply that we can link 2 DHS to the laser AMS and 5 to one ERLL, implying that the remaining 4 heat sinks service one ERLL.  Also jumping generates no heat.  Also, heat sinks can be turned off.  The mech is also designed to operate at long distance where enemies can not influence your heat.  Also, laser weapons can be 'dialed down' to deal less damage with less heat on a 1-for-1 basis.  In sum, this gives us an extremely reliable heat profile.
(2) The TSM rules imply that we can wield a 20 ton handgun, which the system is designed for, as all weapons are in the head.  The appropriate 20 ton handgun has 1 ton of armor, 12 tons of clan Arrow IV and 7 tons of ammunition. 
(3) The alternate munitions for Arrow IV are quite compelling (and we have 7 tons to play with).  In particular, I'd point out Cluster rounds, which use the shot from above table, and ADAs which are much more effective than any other weapon against aerospace, FASCAM rounds for setting up defenses, and Smoke rounds for creating maneuverable cover.
(4) Jumping mechs at long or extreme range normally aren't too good at hitting, but a sufficiently elite gunner, especially one with "Jumping Jack" from "Time of War" could easily hit.  Combined with Called Shot High, and the cluster artillery, this makes a head-shot kill quite plausible, bypassing almost all mech armor.  This implies the mech is not undergunned at long range against basically any opponent.
(5) The choice of Ferro-Lamellor armor is a bit unusual.  But, as far as I can tell, it's required in a high skill game, because of the Called Shot high rules.  In particular, the thing to fear is a number LB-X shots that are called high.  FL armor at least forces an opponent to use 2-point shots (and halves their damage) if you are going for a pilot shaking kill.  It also helps with crits similarly.  You might consider a torso cockpit instead, but as far as I can tell this doesn't work, because a headkill still leaves the mech blind.

The combination of the above, played well, could make this mech a brutal adversary.  All faster mechs have at least a factor of 2 less armor & structure.  And, any such mech closing is subject to a 40 point kick which typically implies a mobility kill for the weight classes involved.  Also note that the artillery is perfect for following up on a mobility kill.  Mechs with similar armor profiles are radically slower and typically lack significant weaponry at range 25.  Even against the heaviest assault mechs, we can expect a head-shot kill after 2.5 rounds of hitting using the Called Shot High + Cluster rounds strategy.  And remember that in mountain terrain rather than flat plains, we have artillery for indirect fire. 

And, the above is achieved for a not terribly high price, compared to OMNI XL mechs.   Have fun.

Lagrange

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Re: Kangaroo
« Reply #1 on: 14 November 2011, 15:45:50 »
I spent some time figuring out how to optimize this design even further.

  • By switching to large pulse lasers, the difference between the pilot's to-hit and attackers to-hit can be further maximized to 5 (pulse 2, targeting computer 1, jump 5-3=2).
  • This design and battlefield sniper dropships http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,12110.0.html make cockpit destruction the standard failure mode, so it's important to get the pilot out of the cockpit.  The obvious choice is a torso cockpit.  Once the head is lost, this mech can no longer effectively fight, but at least the pilot survives and can guide the mech home for repairs.
  • A torso cockpit invites further head-mounted weapons, and head turret.
  • Although not necessarily part of the design, several design quirks would further enhance the mech.  These are Low profile (+1 to be hit, cost 3), Improved targeting [Long] (-1 to hit, cost 3), Accurate LPLs (-1 to hit, cost 4). 
  • The ideal pilot further maximizes the difference.  This can be done by:
    • specialization in Gunnery/Mech/Laser (-1 to hit), and Artillery/Arrow IV (-1 to hit). (20 xp each)
    • Sharpshooter (-2 to hit at long range, 150 xp)
    • Rangemaster (-2 to hit at long range, 100 xp)
    • Weapon Specialiast, Large Pulse and Arrow IV. (-1 to hit, 150 xp each)
    • Jumping Jack (-2 to jump penalty, 150 xp)


I was surprised here to discover what a difference the pilot can make compared to the machine.
Quote
Kangaroo 2

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X
Production Year: 0
Cost: 14,866,667 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,906

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 100 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h (21.6 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h (32.4 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters / 300 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    20.5 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   152 points                5.00
    Internal Locations: 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA
Engine:             Fusion Engine                100                       3.00
    Walking MP: 1 (2)
    Running MP: 2 (3)
    Jumping MP: 0 / 10 Jump Booster
Heat Sinks:         (CL) Double Heat Sink        10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT
Gyro:               Compact                                                1.50
Cockpit:            Torso-Mounted                                          4.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
    TSM Locations: 3 LA, 3 RA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 307                 16.00
    Armor Locations: 2 LT, 2 LA, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     31           47       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  15       
                                           L/R Torso     21           32       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10       
                                             L/R Arm     17           34       
                                             L/R Leg     21           42       



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Primary                                        Cost: 17,644,167
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X                         BV2: 3,024

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 (CL) Large Pulse Lasers                    HD        20        4        12.00
(R) (CL) ER Medium Laser                     CT        5         1         1.00
(CL) Targeting Computer                      RT        -         3         3.00
Active Probe                                 LT        0         1         1.00
ECM Suite                                    LT        0         1         1.00
(CL) Laser Anti-Missile System               LT        5         1         1.00
Mech Head Turret                             CT        -         1         1.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 30
1          3       3       3       0      4     0   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: TSM, OMNI, PRB, RCN, ECM, AMS, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA


================================================================================
Loadout Name: Scout                                          Cost: 19,644,167
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X                         BV2: 2,982

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 (CL) Large Pulse Lasers                    HD        20        4        12.00
(CL) Medium Pulse Laser                      CT        4         1         2.00
Bloodhound Active Probe                      RT        0         3         2.00
(CL) Laser Anti-Missile System               LT        5         1         1.00
Angel ECM                                    LT        0         2         2.00
Mech Head Turret                             CT        -         1         0.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     10    Points: 30
1          3       3       2       0      4     0   Structure:  8
Special Abilities: TSM, OMNI, BH, RCN, AMS, AECM, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA

As in the earlier version, this design is optimized to carry a 20 ton handgun containing an Arrow IV.   With a good pilot, you can direct fire a cluster round and make called shots high with the LPLs at range 17, with a decent expectation of hitting.  Every 2-3 hits, you expect to mission-kill just about any mech.  Even a hardened armor mech with reinforced structure only takes about 4 hits to disable in expectation. 

This is also an ideal C3 lancemate as it's high maneuverability and high armor allow it to survive close contact fairly well.   The ERML(R) is there because I couldn't figure out what else to do with the last ton+crit.  The scout variant trades the targeting computer for advanced electronics making it ideal for finding the bad guys and disrupting ambushes. 

In action, the approach of this mech should be pretty intimidating---a very loud "thud" every 10 seconds as it lands.

KlavoHunter

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Re: Kangaroo
« Reply #2 on: 14 November 2011, 17:09:01 »
You realize nobody will ever let you use this in a game, right?
What the heck is a Piranha Rat?!?

those can be some of the best posts evar! wake up the next day and be all like, wait, I posted what!?!?
;)

Lagrange

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Re: Kangaroo
« Reply #3 on: 14 November 2011, 19:35:27 »
You realize nobody will ever let you use this in a game, right?

I can imagine objections because the design is not tournament legal or canon, which are quite valid if that's the game people want to play.  I can also imagine objections because it's blend of speed, firepower, and armor would substantially upset game balance.   These seem less valid if your goal is creating a good design.  Was there something else?

Feign

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Re: Kangaroo
« Reply #4 on: 14 November 2011, 21:34:52 »
I like how you referenced the Grand Bastion "B" config, as nobody has let me bring that into a legitimate game either. (and I totally don't blame them.  :P )

Concept wise, this looks pretty close to my Bergtrager design, though that one exploits far fewer of the Tac Ops special rules and keeps things pretty canon.

Note, that Mechanical Jump Boosters can't be used to turn, so if you want to change facing, you must spend the whole movement phase doing so.  This wasn't a problem for the Bastion series, as they used Quad Mech Turrets and balanced front and rear armor.  When you consider that a handheld weapon can only fire into the front arc, this guy can be pretty easily defended against tactically, especially if Vertical Partial Cover is in effect.
« Last Edit: 14 November 2011, 21:38:06 by Feign »
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All that is built crumbles,
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Lagrange

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Re: Kangaroo
« Reply #5 on: 15 November 2011, 11:04:47 »
I like how you referenced the Grand Bastion "B" config, as nobody has let me bring that into a legitimate game either. (and I totally don't blame them.  :P )

Not surprised :)

Concept wise, this looks pretty close to my Bergtrager design, though that one exploits far fewer of the Tac Ops special rules and keeps things pretty canon.

I hadn't seen it, but agree in general.  This is a much more refined version---we have doubled the speed and take advantage of tacops dial-down rules to make our heat profile smooth.  Using heat-sink routing, we can reliably deal with all heat from the LAMS using 2 DHS, and from one of the LPLs using 4 others.  The Arrow IV handgun seems superior to virtually all others given the wide array of ammo.  I'm particularly partial to cluster rounds which are excellent for direct fire.   They target hexes rather than units which wipes out opponents movement, stealth, etc.., they eliminate all battle armor&infantry in one shot, and the shot-from-above makes them extra lethal to mechs, vehicles, and ASF.  ADA (extra range+crit vs. aero), Inferno (heat+10), mines (30 points), and smoke all are useful in various roles.  It also nerfs laser-reflec designs.  With the extra speed, there is little point in TAG, because you want to stay at long range, and you're a ton light on the ammo anyways, so you can go up to 20 rounds with an IS AIV or 7 tons with a clan.  The extra speed also implies you are less worried about minimum range problems.  Overall, light mechs can close where they are torn apart by the LPLs, while all other mechs are cluster shot bait.  It's not unreasonable to take on 4 or 5 opposing mechs if you use good tactics. 

The things left to fear are:
Other designs with artillery (example: Naga).  All of these are slower, so you can plausibly counter by staying in range 18-20 whittling them down with LPLs while rarely being hit by artillery which takes a round to arrive.

Airborne opponents.  But ADAs, Cluster Flak, and LPLs are some of the best anti-ASF weapons.

Surprise.  But we have probes to prevent this.

Note, that Mechanical Jump Boosters can't be used to turn, so if you want to change facing, you must spend the whole movement phase doing so.

I'm addressing this with the head turret and extra speed.  Only fast opponents can get behind, and the LPLs are tough on them.

Lagrange

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Re: Kangaroo
« Reply #6 on: 16 November 2011, 11:32:01 »
Sillybrit points out http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,12661.msg302460.html#msg302460 Mine clearance missiles as an alternative to Artillery and fast swarms as something to fear.

The mine clearance missiles make an interesting alternative handgun consisting of a  LRM-20 + 4 tons ammo + 5 SRM-4 + 5 tons ammo + 1 ton armor.   Although the amount of damage (5+5*2) is small, they almost always hit (-4 for stationary target), still do area effect damage, and incidentally clear mines which is often useful.  SRM-4s can be freely traded for LRM-5s to increase long-range damage.

 

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