Clan Terra'farming?

[St.George]

Seeing some worlds lost after the SW's,would the Clans(IS clans) use the SL tech they have to bring back some of these worlds in their OZ's?

[Archangel]

Not likely.  The resources and time required for such a project would deter any clan from attempting anything like that.  They would probably consider it a waste of resources and rather invest them in current military project or building/expanding a military manufacturing facility.  The Snow Ravens had plenty of time to attempt to terraform Hellgate but never did.  If there is a planet that has valuable minerals desired by the clan, they are more likely to build domes to house the laborers (and any unit assigned to protect the colony).

[Gäiten]

Terraforming is going to be more interesting for the HomeClans in the future.

[Fallen_Raven]

The Hell's Horses might have looked into it, what with their history of colonization, but I don't know of any sources saying the Clans are re-terraforming.

[WeaponX]

In the 3130 map there's a planet in the Wolf OZ called "Kerensky's Vision" which seems to be a newly colonised or rediscovered planet since it doesn't appear in earlier maps.

[Cyc]

The IS Clans in many cases are stretched too thin defending the active worlds they've got, save for some super specific reason (insane mineral deposits, historical reason) they are even less likely than the Homeworld Clans to spend resources on terraforming.

[lonewolf0409]

In the 3130 map there's a planet in the Wolf OZ called "Kerensky's Vision" which seems to be a newly colonised or rediscovered planet since it doesn't appear in earlier maps.

Could Kerensky's Vision be Qualip from Handbook House Steiner Map of 2822 (pg. 38).

[Archangel]

Could Kerensky's Vision be Qualip from Handbook House Steiner Map of 2822 (pg. 38).

Øystein has confirmed that.

Kerensky's Vision: No one in the IS except the Wolves would name a world that. It was resettled by Clan Wolf. I should know, I put the damn planet on the map (both times). QED.

[St.George]

Oyst' would know,,,,the Ravens might have to claim him,he'd be a good addition to the clan.   ;D

Some of the more "Explorer" clans in the past might be interested,and the IS clans might seeing they "need" space,,,Sharks,Ravens and Horses(maybe scorps too).A'lil hard work and there might be something in it for em,seeing that the lower caste have to do the work.What of the abandon worlds?I'd think a clan "wouldn't" waste em and not get em back up for resources alone.

[VoltAmpere]

that's an interesting idea.

The Ravens could theoretically restore the 101 worlds that the OA lost from 2750 onward.
The Horses could restore a significant section of the former RWR Apollo Province from Mearra to Taran's World (not counting those that could be part of the Chainelane Isles.
The Falcons could have Kreller, Manx, Stonarboi and Deweidewd
The Wolves have Bushmill and Christiania
The Bears have Corfu, Oyevania, Muswell and Bilma
The Nova Cats (in Irece Prefecture) could probably restore Tuat

There could be more out there, those are only the ones I could find right now

[Fallen_Raven]

that's an interesting idea.

The Ravens could theoretically restore the 101 worlds that the OA lost from 2750 onward.
The Horses could restore a significant section of the former RWR Apollo Province from Mearra to Taran's World (not counting those that could be part of the Chainelane Isles.
The Falcons could have Kreller, Manx, Stonarboi and Deweidewd
The Wolves have Bushmill and Christiania
The Bears have Corfu, Oyevania, Muswell and Bilma
The Nova Cats (in Irece Prefecture) could probably restore Tuat

There could be more out there, those are only the ones I could find right now

Which would have the benefit of making the comparitively minor Clans a bigger deal (in a few decades anyway) without having them invade anyone else.

[VoltAmpere]

Exactly! the ravens and horses have most to gain, it's unfortunate that the horses let go of their far periphery worlds in the 3130 map so that idea's pretty much shot. but the ravens have a virtual gold mine of worlds they can restore

[St.George]

that was the topic on the game table last weekend.Some worlds "couldn't" be maintained,so if these worlds "have" been terraformed in the past,you'd think that it would be somewhat easyer to re-terraform them.Now what planets where?I don't know.But theres tons of em' cents the fall of the SL and the SW started.
not to mention what the clans had to go through in the homeworlds,,,they're kinda use to it.     ;D

[VoltAmpere]

true, the lost worlds should be easier to re-terraform than worlds that were not naturally habitable to begin with (ie Kerensky Cluster and the Pentagon). Not to mention 300 years worth of technological advancement should help too

[martian]

It is similar problem as with colonization. You must allocate huge amount of money, resources and manpower, and therefore weaken your Clan for many years forward. And for what? When the work is done, other Clan will come and declare Trial of Possesion for the planet or at least some enclaves. Should you win, the second Clan will come and your exhausted forces will lose. The end result will be pure loss for your Clan and nothing else. That's why Clans usually declare Trials for their neighbour's resources instead of making their own effort to find and secure new ones. Blood Spirits could tell...

[Martius]

That's why Clans usually declare Trials for their neighbour's resources instead of making their own effort to find and secure new ones.

Exactly. So why terraform if you can conquer? This is especially true for the IS Clans.

[St.George]

why?not to waste forces on worlds that's,,,kinda,,,,worth it?If others think "that" worlds still dead,,,then they wont look to it.kinda like the  the spirits hidden worlds,,,till someone spotted em.Now,,,what would make a world "that" attractive to a clan to Re-terraform it?Lot's i'd think,,,,take the sharks and Twycross,if they knew of the Harjel like substance and needed to terraform it,,,,would they?,,,,Damm right they would.Volt see's the potential of this,,,,some clans wouldn't do it for lack of planets to do so,,,,Ravens and hourses could gain lots,,,,just thinking.   }:)

[cray]

The Ravens could theoretically restore the 101 worlds that the OA lost from 2750 onward.

Those worlds didn't all die, they left an OA they found useless.

The IS Clans in many cases are stretched too thin defending the active worlds they've got, save for some super specific reason (insane mineral deposits, historical reason) they are even less likely than the Homeworld Clans to spend resources on terraforming.

Indeed. The Clans didn't even bother to improve their home worlds with terraforming, and those were miserable planets.

[Gäiten]

Indeed. The Clans didn't even bother to improve their home worlds with terraforming, and those were miserable planets.

Some Clans did (see WoK, page 75, Clan Coyote, Possessions). The Coyotes`overcame Tamaron marginable ecosystem and built a thriving culture.
So the Clans are capable to do seroius terraforming. But ...
Due jar-headed philosophical reasons, the Homeworlds were just considered as provisional staging areas before reurning to the IS. No much need to undertake more serious terraforming and developing, IMHO.

And in ISP2, Society part, is mentioned that the Adders were testing new terraforming techniques on the Tanite worlds.

[cray]

Oh, excellent, so the Clans are willing to try a bit of terraforming here and there. Not much, though.

[Cerberus_02]

When the work is done, other Clan will come and declare Trial of Possesion for the planet or at least some enclaves.

Great, now I've got this image of two trueborn farmers (failed every test from Warrior Caste on down) conducting their own "harvest" trial...

[Gäiten]

Oh, excellent, so the Clans are willing to try a bit of terraforming here and there. Not much, though.

What they did was enough for what they needed, was not it?

BTW what Terra forming projects have the IS powers down since the fall of the First SL?

[cray]

What they did was enough for what they needed, was not it?

If you define "need" as in "agrees with their philosophies," then yes. If you mean "need" as in "is good for the majority of their population and well being," then no. The Clans could've had a paradise. They chose to have a purgatory to keep them focused for centuries on returning to the Inner Sphere.

BTW what Terra forming projects have the IS powers down since the fall of the First SL?

I'm not aware of any large-scale efforts (like Gibson, Mars, or Venus) since the fall of the First Star League. The recovery of the Helm core probably allowed some planets' environments to be improved as old terraforming machinery was repaired, which would count as terraforming.

[Archangel]

The problem with terraforming entire planets is that it is a prohibitively expensive and time-consuming process even during the original Star League.  Even during the Star League, most terraforming projects were intended to tweak an existing environment to make it most compatible to humans and/or growing crops rather than changing a planet's entire eco-system.

[Sid]

If you define "need" as in "agrees with their philosophies," then yes. If you mean "need" as in "is good for the majority of their population and well being," then no. The Clans could've had a paradise. They chose to have a purgatory to keep them focused for centuries on returning to the Inner Sphere.

Which does make sense.  Focus on what they were created for- instead of getting all nice and comfy and...then procrastinating. 

Grand Council... approx. 3250

Loremaster: "So we are faced with a decision- do we return to the Inner Sphere and save its people from the corrupt house lords, or shall we delay another year to prepare? "
Khan 1: Aw, crap, the golf courses are beautiful this time of year.  I motion we delay at least for another year.
Khan 2: I agree.  I've got some suntanning to do- and if we've delayed for 200 years, what's 201?
Loremaster: "Excellent.  Motion carried, we shall vote a year from now.  Now if you excuse me, I have to return to my vineyards"

[cray]

The problem with terraforming entire planets is that it is a prohibitively expensive and time-consuming process even during the original Star League.  Even during the Star League, most terraforming projects were intended to tweak an existing environment to make it most compatible to humans and/or growing crops rather than changing a planet's entire eco-system.

I'm missing something. You say terraforming entire planets is expensive, but then say the Star League often terraformed entire planets to make them more human-friendly. In both cases, you're terraforming "entire planets."

Either way, I don't completely agree with your conclusion that it was super-expensive and time-consuming. The Clans had 225 years before Operation Revival. The Terran Alliance - or, rather, just Terra - terraformed Venus and Mars in about 100 years each. WoB was able to inexpensively repair Mars' environment (a tweaking of an existing environment) in 5-10 years, and that's about all most Clan homeworlds would need. Somewhat thicker air or some air sequestration, somewhat more water, some carefully managed releases of human-friendly critters and plants: nothing dramatic to make the planets nicer.

Grand Council... approx. 3250

Heh.

[Gäiten]

Either way, I don't completely agree with your conclusion that it was super-expensive and time-consuming. The Clans had 225 years before Operation Revival. The Terran Alliance - or, rather, just Terra - terraformed Venus and Mars in about 100 years each. WoB was able to inexpensively repair Mars' environment (a tweaking of an existing environment) in 5-10 years, and that's about all most Clan homeworlds would need. Somewhat thicker air or some air sequestration, somewhat more water, some carefully managed releases of human-friendly critters and plants: nothing dramatic to make the planets nicer.

And the circle is closing again.
The Clans could have done that (and to a certain degree they did), but it was against their philosophy to transform their worlds to paradises.

Furthermore, given how deeply splitted the Clans (and planetary possessions) have been, huge planet-size Terraforming projects needs strong central power and authority, somewhat the Clans have missed for centuries.
The Terran Alliance, the Star League and WoB did have these.

[St.George]

As a "group" of people,the Clans have to make do with what they have,,,yes?It might be expessive and time cosuming,but if they had to terraform a world,they would have done just that with 100% effort and not questioned their leaders orders(even if it was stupid,to a point)

[cray]

Furthermore, given how deeply splitted the Clans (and planetary possessions) have been, huge planet-size Terraforming projects needs strong central power and authority, somewhat the Clans have missed for centuries.
The Terran Alliance, the Star League and WoB did have these.

That's a good point. Not really applicable to mine, but a good point.

[Archangel]

I'm missing something. You say terraforming entire planets is expensive, but then say the Star League often terraformed entire planets to make them more human-friendly. In both cases, you're terraforming "entire planets."

Terraforming on a planetary scale where one takes an active role in changing the planet's entire ecology versus making a minor adjustment to ecology and then taking a more passive role letting nature do the rest.  The first example would be used to make an unihabitable planet habitable, such as Venus, while the second is really only used on planets already habitable to make them slightly more pleasant using various methods such as importing plants, rerouting of rivers or as you state below "tweaking of an existing environment."

Either way, I don't completely agree with your conclusion that it was super-expensive and time-consuming. The Clans had 225 years before Operation Revival. The Terran Alliance - or, rather, just Terra - terraformed Venus and Mars in about 100 years each. WoB was able to inexpensively repair Mars' environment (a tweaking of an existing environment) in 5-10 years, and that's about all most Clan homeworlds would need. Somewhat thicker air or some air sequestration, somewhat more water, some carefully managed releases of human-friendly critters and plants: nothing dramatic to make the planets nicer.

Apples and oranges.  When Mars and Venus were colonized and terraformed, Terra was suffering from severe over-crowding.  The Clans, on the other hand, never really had problems with over-crowding.  The total population of all the Clan homeworlds was less than that of Terra during any part of the 3rd millenium.  In addition, the Clans were constantly fighting over scarce resources and what resources they had they preferred to direct to more military projects that had more immediate applications.  Also, Mars atmosphere was made breathable "in a mere century", but the terraforming process was still ongoing when the first settlers arrived and the process was expected to take a couple more centuries before being completed.  As far as Venus is concerned - "No engineering project before or since then has been as grand as the efforts that tamed Venus." (JHS Terra, p160)  That doesn't sound like it was either easy or inexpensive.