Author Topic: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot  (Read 313499 times)

Makinus

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Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« on: 04 February 2011, 04:55:25 »
2.18 update:

- Added Rogue/Pirate rules (Thanks Sandslice)
- Modified infantry platoon use.
- Added another (3rd) optional ammo system.
- Some small rebalancing.

2.20 update:
- see reply #398

2.21 update:
- see reply #503

2.22 update:
- see reply #622 on page 25

2.23 update:
- see reply #899

2.24 update:
- see reply #1137

2.25 update:
- see reply #1219
« Last Edit: 14 September 2012, 08:51:03 by Makinus »
Against-the-Bot Campaign Rules:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/megamek-games/campaign-rules-against-the-bot-thread-4/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Fireangel: hey, it's BT; nothing happens without a sinister reason or a healthy dose of stupid pills

consequences: nothing explains Fasanomics. Any attempt to do so generally results in the bandaid on the sucking chest wound turning out to be a carnivorous lifeform that only makes the bleeding worse.

Scotty

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #1 on: 04 February 2011, 11:10:01 »
Makinus!  \o/

When you get that put up, I'll update the googledocs with it, and you could probably include the link in your first post.
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Peleandros

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #2 on: 04 February 2011, 16:05:07 »
Awesome! When you get that set up again, let me know. I was having a BLAST with my campaign.
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here." - Jayne, Firefly (The Train Job)

Drufause

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #3 on: 04 February 2011, 19:49:38 »
Looking forward to this
Combat Command Counters Thread
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=191.0
quote by OgreBattle on 09/08/2011
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Cerberus

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #4 on: 05 February 2011, 11:51:40 »
InfiniteTruth here, requesting to get back into this campaign.

bdziec

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #5 on: 06 February 2011, 13:01:50 »
I also would like to join in

Snimm

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #6 on: 06 February 2011, 16:55:38 »
It's a solo campaign.  You are, if you choose, your own GM.  Though Makinus and company have been awesome about helping people get started until they understand the mechanics of each turn.
Need help getting started with Against the Bot in MekHQ?  Click here to get yourself up and running!

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=41494.msg957784#msg957784

bblaney

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #7 on: 07 February 2011, 00:01:37 »
Tagged, hopefully the newer version will be more streamlined.

But I like it anyways

Now if we can get a 3062+ version, lol
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Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #8 on: 07 February 2011, 00:08:22 »
Tagged, hopefully the newer version will be more streamlined.

But I like it anyways

Now if we can get a 3062+ version, lol

The rules have always had 3062 era rules...

At least in my copy of 1.95 there are contract tables for 3060 and 3065...

Davout73
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Makinus

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #9 on: 07 February 2011, 04:57:14 »
Davout: did you read the new possible battle system? what do you think?

bblaney: the new version will be more clear and more streamlined... i hope....
Against-the-Bot Campaign Rules:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/megamek-games/campaign-rules-against-the-bot-thread-4/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Fireangel: hey, it's BT; nothing happens without a sinister reason or a healthy dose of stupid pills

consequences: nothing explains Fasanomics. Any attempt to do so generally results in the bandaid on the sucking chest wound turning out to be a carnivorous lifeform that only makes the bleeding worse.

Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #10 on: 07 February 2011, 05:10:21 »
I've been thinking of tweaking the contract for my campaign, and have come up with the following.  Would like some feedback on it.

Contracts are broken into three categories:  Attack, Defense, Raid.

Attack Missions:
Planetary Assault.  Minimum is 4 months.  Add 1d6-2 to length, then multiply that total by house modifier.  Minimum 4 months.  Higher modifiers to pay, salvage and transportation, no modifier to support.  Command is always house unless Unit is rated A+.

Pirate Hunting:  Minimum is 2 months, Add 1d3 to length of contract, then multiply that total by house modifier.  Minimum 2 months.  Employer Ally force is always Small.

Guerrilla Warfare:  Minimum is 6 month, plus house modifier, minimum of 6 months.  High pay, High Salvage, High Transport.  Bonus to command rights. 

RAIDS:
Objective Raid
:  Minimum is 2 months, Add 1d3 to length of contract, then multiply that total by house modifier.  Minimum 2 months.  Better than average pay, fair salvage, transport and command rights, accompanying force is medium size or less.

Recon Raid: Minimum is 1 month plus house modifier.  On completion of mission, followup contract is enacted.  Depending on outcome of raid mission, followup contract could be Planetary Assault or another Raid.  Better than average Pay, Transport. average Salvage.

Diversionary Raid:  1 month plus house modifier.  High pay, Liaison or better command, plus followup contract upon completion.  Planetary Assault or another raid.

Extraction Raid.  Kinda hard to pin this one down, but I think I have a good framework.  Minimum is 3 month, plus 1 month for every rating above D of opposing force.  So C would be +1 month, B would be +2, A +3.  Pay is base plus percentage based on opponent, the better the opponent, the greater the risk, the greater the pay.  Higher payout, fair salvage, transport, command rights.

DEFENSE:
Garrison: Minimum is 12 months, max is 24 months.  What I have been toying with is 2 variations on the contract, front line and interior.  A Frontline contract has a slightly higher pay, better salvage and support rights, but is shorter term.  This type of contract is on a Frontline planet, where the chance for action is greater.  Maybe a combat bonus based on number of actions fought on the contract.  Interior is 18 months minimum, 36 months max.  Average pay, lower salvage and support rights, represents a unit garrisoning an interior planet.  Reduced chance for combat, but higher combat pay bonus.

While in Garrison the Unit can subcontract with the following:

Cadre  Company size minimum required.  4 month minimum plus house modifier.  Low Salvage, fair command and transport.

Security Duty  Lance Size Minimum required.  4 month  minimum plus house modifier.  Low everything.

Unit cannot go below 51% strength when subcontracting.  So a 3 lance Unit can have 1 lance do security duty, but not 2; likewise a 5 lance unit cannot send 3 lances on a Cadre contract.

Cadre and Security Duty can both be stand alone contracts, 6 month minimum on each plus house modifier.

Retainer  Minimum is 12 month,maximum is 24 months,  plus house modifier. Higher pay, salvage, transport rights.   While on retainer unit may be called on to take on another contract.  Two variations, Frontline and Interior.  Frontline roll for additional missions, Raid, Pirate Hunt, Relief Duty.  Full unit participation on all missions.  Each rolled as an independent contract with the exception of transport, which remains the same as retainer contract.
Interior subcontracts include Cadre, Security Duty, Pirate Hunting, Raids.  With the exception of Cadre, all missions require full unit participation.
While on retainer, upon completion of secondary contract, there must be a 6 week period of rest and refit. 

Secondary Contracts "stacK" for the purposes of contract results.  As an example while on Retainer a Unit fights three raid missions, successfully completes two and loses one, it's overall total at the end of the retainer contract is three and one.

I haven't implemented it yet on my game, but its still a work in progress.

Davout73








Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Crunch

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #11 on: 07 February 2011, 05:15:01 »
You might think about moving Raid to Secondary contracts as well (or having it switch hit between categories).
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Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #12 on: 07 February 2011, 05:24:50 »
All the contracts can be primary contracts, being on Retainer or Garrison gives the unit the opportunity to make a little bit more money, if they choose to do so.

Davout73

You might think about moving Raid to Secondary contracts as well (or having it switch hit between categories).

Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #13 on: 07 February 2011, 05:29:12 »
Davout: did you read the new possible battle system? what do you think?

bblaney: the new version will be more clear and more streamlined... i hope....

Looks pretty good.  I will say the more I think about it the more a "flow Chart logic" to battles seems to be more appropriate, but I'll be chuffed if I can figure out a way to implement one of those successfully.

Davout73
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Makinus

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #14 on: 07 February 2011, 06:37:27 »
Davout:

The enw battles are really easy (they only lack the explanation), you determine the specific battle (1d20 roll), choose the aplicable lance among the eligible and roll the enemy forces using the "Bot lances verus Player wights" table to determine the needed enemy weights... then just roll the enemy lances until you reach the needed weight.

Example: In a Garrision contract i roll a Hide and Seek battle as a Dafender and select, among my Attack and Scout lances, a Medium weight (scout) one. According to the Bot lances versus Player table i need a enemy weight value of 2. Then i roll on the Lance weight modifiers table (battle sheet) and get a Light Lance (weight value 1) and a medium lance (weight value 1.5). Since i already exceeded the needed enmy weight i do not roll for a 3rd enemy lance. My mission will be against 2 enemy lances, one Light and other Medium. I lose if 50% of my mechs are destroyed, and to win i must destroy 3 (1/3) of the enemy units.

However wins the battle gets all the salvage.

About your contract suggestions: what if we eliminate the need to keep track of enemy deployment sizes (tiny, small, medium, etc.) and kept only the enemy skill/rating? I have been thinking and i think it adds too much micromanagement for few benefits...

I like your subcontracting idea, but what about if we restricted them to units with higher ratings (B or more?) as poorly rated units could not be trusted to fulfill multiple contracts...

Also, retainer status, at least in BT literature, was only offered to units with a long history of sucessfull contracts to a house, so we may keep the need for a certain number of sucessfull contracts to a employer before being offered retainer status....

Want to try to generate your contract system? start with the one currently in use and modify with your suggestions... did you received the googledocs link to the new ruleset? Put anything you do there... (create a Contract Generation table for it)

Edit:

also, about your Frontline/Interior division..... i only see a problem, how would you justify a enemy faction attack on the interior? "Interior" contracts, at least on my thinking, would deal only with Rebels or Pirates... i always tought that when i rolled a garrision contract against rebels i was, in fact, being assigned a interior garrision...

what about, instead of separating the contracts in interior/garrision we made the enemy skill/rating increase or decrease the contract pay rate? we would achieve your desired results more easily..... what do you think?
« Last Edit: 07 February 2011, 06:49:20 by Makinus »
Against-the-Bot Campaign Rules:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/megamek-games/campaign-rules-against-the-bot-thread-4/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Fireangel: hey, it's BT; nothing happens without a sinister reason or a healthy dose of stupid pills

consequences: nothing explains Fasanomics. Any attempt to do so generally results in the bandaid on the sucking chest wound turning out to be a carnivorous lifeform that only makes the bleeding worse.

Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #15 on: 07 February 2011, 06:51:52 »
I think there is a need to keep enemy deployment and sizes.  We need to do a better job of explaining how they work and the mechanism for determining and using them during the battle.  One reason is because I think it's pretty cool to do that, another is in my version, I have a breakpoint for the enemy, wherein if they reach a certain level of loses they retreat, and the contract can be ended early (with appropriate bonus's).  Likewise, if the players company reaches a point where it's combat ineffective, it can retreat before the contract is up with appropriate losses.  This can lead to a Pyrrhic Victory/Loss situation,  but has worked out OK for me.

I am working on an updated contract matrix, I'll upload it to the googledoc site when done.  Most of it can be automated, with the exception of the Extraction Raid.  I *think* that can be automated out, but I haven't figure it out just yet.  Kwic might be able to..

Davout73
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #16 on: 07 February 2011, 10:16:35 »
I've added 'ContractGenV7" to the Google share.  The only formula I have not figure out is the extraction raid, because this page is buil on Kwics work and he did not include unit opposition in this.

You'll notice that my percentage numbers for Support, BLC and the like are very different, but those are the ones I use, feel free to change them.

Any questions let me know,

Davout73
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Makinus

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #17 on: 08 February 2011, 05:40:17 »
Davout:

I´ll look at the generation process.... i think i will also add some tools for battle genration, company generation and the like, mostly borrowing from Kwic´s files....

Before going further, i´m interested in the rules you mentioned regarding opposing forces sizes... could you explain them to me? If we decide to adopt them it would be better to start now so we can adjust other parts of the system to them (mostly events)....
Against-the-Bot Campaign Rules:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/megamek-games/campaign-rules-against-the-bot-thread-4/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Fireangel: hey, it's BT; nothing happens without a sinister reason or a healthy dose of stupid pills

consequences: nothing explains Fasanomics. Any attempt to do so generally results in the bandaid on the sucking chest wound turning out to be a carnivorous lifeform that only makes the bleeding worse.

Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #18 on: 08 February 2011, 10:45:34 »
Before going further, i´m interested in the rules you mentioned regarding opposing forces sizes... could you explain them to me? If we decide to adopt them it would be better to start now so we can adjust other parts of the system to them (mostly events)....

I think there needs to be a better explanation on what constitutes a Tiny, Small, Medium, Large and Very Large force, and how losses incurred in battle affect the overall total.

One of the things that I found...frustrating...in my earlier contracts is that you had to completely destroy an enemy force on planet, and if you did that before the contract was up you were spinning your wheels wasting time and money.  With the contract length revisions, that's less of a problem, but I've been playing around with a matrix that takes into account the starting size and quality of the opposing force; and the losses and the contract.  A Reg D force will break sooner than a Reg B force on a Raid, but will hold out longer on a Planetary Assault.  So if facing 100 lances worth of enemy on a 6 month Pirate Hunt contract, if by month three you've killed 75, they will retreat off planet, the contract can be ended successfully early.

It's still a work in progress.

Davout73
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Kwic

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #19 on: 08 February 2011, 11:49:30 »
forces for an extraction raid?  I'll take a look at the modifications you both have made so far, but have a significant piece of work to finish up over the next few days.  Then I should be able to spend a bit more time with the tweeking of formulas and such.  So far, this latest incarnation still looks awesome, great work guys.

Davout, Makinus, if you have a specific question on how or why I used the formulas I chose, send me a pm with a cell reference, and I'll reply.

Kwic.

Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #20 on: 08 February 2011, 12:35:16 »
Hey Kwic,

With regards to the Extraction Raid mission I am taking a page from the Field Manual Mercenaries  where your going after a person/piece of equipment/something else vital.  The key line for me in that mission description was that the base contract length was three months, but could take longer depending on the complexity and secrecy of the mission.  Rather than add another table to the mission generation, my logic was the better the unit guarding said person/piece of equipment etc, the more valuable, so the longer it would take.  So, the base length of the Extraction Mission would be 3 months, plus additional months added for the quality of the unit defending. 

But the contract OpFor isn't taken into account when generating a contract, although part of me says it should.  A Planetary Assault against Wolfs Dragoons should have a higher payout that against some unknown Pirate band, but thats just my opinion.  I haven't decided whether or not to work that into my system yet.

I will say I like the work you've done on the spreadsheet, I've had little or no trouble adding and adapting it to my use.

Davout73

forces for an extraction raid?  I'll take a look at the modifications you both have made so far, but have a significant piece of work to finish up over the next few days.  Then I should be able to spend a bit more time with the tweeking of formulas and such.  So far, this latest incarnation still looks awesome, great work guys.

Davout, Makinus, if you have a specific question on how or why I used the formulas I chose, send me a pm with a cell reference, and I'll reply.

Kwic.
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Scotty

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #21 on: 08 February 2011, 13:53:48 »
Hey makinus, what did you think about the in-battle force sizes idea I had before the other forum went down?
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

Stormforge

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #22 on: 14 February 2011, 20:30:11 »
Dont know how I missed this on the old forums. Definitely would be interested in these.
If the enemy is in range most likely so are you.

EvilGrinner

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #23 on: 14 February 2011, 21:56:06 »
I would also love to try this out, it really looks to be fun and interesting. 

Brainburn

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #24 on: 18 February 2011, 14:29:07 »
I would love this.
Is there some documentation somewhere I could peruse and try to wrap my head around?

I would also like to see if I can assist any if needed. (I jsut dont know what is needed)

Brainburn

Kwic

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #25 on: 18 February 2011, 21:38:06 »
Makinus is currently preparing version 2.0 of the rules, which should be a lot clearer.

Links to the old thread in the forum archives would give you some of the history and development that got us to this point.

Kwic.

Brainburn

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #26 on: 23 February 2011, 19:34:45 »
Is there any way I could get you to post a link here?
I am really interested in this.


Brainburn

Makinus

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #27 on: 25 February 2011, 20:03:42 »
I'm a little busy at work right now, but will attach the non-polished rules (1.97) while the clearer 2.0 ruleset is not ready yet...

Scotty: could you repeat your idea again?

Against-the-Bot Campaign Rules:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/megamek-games/campaign-rules-against-the-bot-thread-4/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Fireangel: hey, it's BT; nothing happens without a sinister reason or a healthy dose of stupid pills

consequences: nothing explains Fasanomics. Any attempt to do so generally results in the bandaid on the sucking chest wound turning out to be a carnivorous lifeform that only makes the bleeding worse.

Davout73

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #28 on: 25 February 2011, 21:03:02 »
I think it would be useful at some point to have a post that creates a unit then walks through step by step on contract payments and the like.

I can do some of it, but am in the middle of moving.

Davout73
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
Every Man Must Be Tempted, a KNT Universe series: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/every-man-must-be-tempted
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent, because the competent use it when it could do some good."

Scotty

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Re: Campaign Rules: Against-The-Bot
« Reply #29 on: 25 February 2011, 22:53:11 »
I'm a little busy at work right now, but will attach the non-polished rules (1.97) while the clearer 2.0 ruleset is not ready yet...

Scotty: could you repeat your idea again?

1) There is not a three lance limit to the OpFor deployment, but instead you roll as many lances as necessary to meet the weight requirement.

2) You roll as if determining reinforcements with every lance currently deployed in theater for every mission.  Any lance that makes the roll is deployable to whatever mission it succeeded the roll for.  Target number would be modified based on what kind of battle it is, and possibly what type of lance.

Skirmish lances are always deployed as reinforcements if they are not the only lance taking part in the battle, and there is no limit on number of reinforcements or number of lances deployed at start.  Lance deployments are determined BEFORE rolling for enemy lances.

3) Map size rolls be changed to include larger map sizes, perhaps dependent on the number of lances participating, up to probably 5x5.

This way, you can have an awesome, rather large engagement with, say, three attack lances reinforced by two skirmish lances going up against a full battalion of enemy 'Mechs in a conventional battle, or even more, on a 4x4 or 5x5 map to duke it out.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

 

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