Author Topic: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien  (Read 18470 times)

Moonsword

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Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« on: 13 January 2012, 17:44:52 »
'Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien

The Yao Lien's story begins toward the end of the Jihad with Apollyon refusing to share his toys with Cameron St. Jamais.  After the planning session transcript revealed to us a while back by the hard work of 3rdCrucisLancers and MadCapellan, I can't blame him.  St. Jamais responded by diverting excess materials from Celestial construction to Martinson Armaments on Liberty (better known as Carver V), a factory built in the ruins of the SLDF Marine base at Quantico.  Sharp-eyed readers will remember it as the site of a major holdout against Amaris, but in that time period, the factory was putting together the pieces in that rara avis, a production FrankenMech named the Eidolon after a sort of shade or phantasm from Greek mythology.  Fittingly, the 'Mech was rare and elusive, but the Capellans were able to track it down and struck Liberty not long before the Coalition arrived.  Fiercely resisting at first, the CCAF forces withdrew after Warrior House Imarra seized Quantico, giving them the opportunity to dismantle the factory and get enough parts to start limited production.  Initially, the Republic Armed Forces wasn't aware that they had started building the design but eventually the supply chain led them to the truth.  Expected to see a reasonable production run, with at least two Yao Liens going to each Warrior House, the design is going to be a thorn in the Republic's side for a long time to come.

Getting down to brass tacks, the Yao Lien is a 55 ton 'Mech, sitting at the top end of the medium weight bracket and built on an endo-steel skeleton.  A Ceres Motors 275 standard fusion engine powers it to 86 kph, matching classic designs like the Wolverine and Shadow Hawk but the design's greatest mobility comes from the array of seven Chilton 210 improved jump jets that let it match an Assassin leap for leap.  The small cockpit doesn't do it any favors but saves tonnage to fit those jets in without compromising somewhere else, like the 10 tons of ferro-fibrous armor.  That total is all of six points of shy of max, shaving three points off each leg for 23 points while each side torso has 20, the centerline has 28, and the arms have 18 each.  The rear is similarly hardy at 6 on the side and 8 across the center.  The armor is hardy enough to stand up to a fair bit of punishment, letting you use a Yao Lien aggressively in ways that smaller 'Mechs can't match.  Only ten double heat sinks runs a bit short but compared to the sort of heat load a MAD-3R can rack up, it's pretty mild.  The main and only armament is the pair of Ceres Arms Thrasher Snub-Nose PPCs on the right arm, a combination of vulnerability and utility that's interesting.  The vulnerability is obvious, but the utility is that if you can get one onto someone - and I'm thinking of getting backstabbed here - the other's pointed right at the target, too.  All in all, I'd rather see at least one in the torso, but I've seen worse.  On the other hand, with the electronics, the snubbies might not be your biggest problem trying to deal with one.  The original Eidolon featured a C3i, but the Capellans favor the C3 slave and a Guardian ECM, allowing you to counterjam, use standard defensive ECM, or project ghost targets.  Overall, the total package is a solid skirmisher with the ability to gut someone's rear torso if it gets into position and the combination of speed, armor, and weaponry makes its use as a C3 spotter a menacing possibility.

If you've ever used a Wolverine, especially the WLV-6M and its spiritual children, you're going to be right at home here.  The snubbies give Yao Liens a lot of “short” range to play with, letting you use your agility to stay out of someone's sweet spot while hammering them with ten point hits, even knifing them at 270 meters.  The jets should be used sparingly - the heat curve gets a bit touchy if you overuse them - but being able to suddenly pop 7 hexes is useful.  Defensively, Yao Liens have enough speed to get by and enough armor to survive getting into medium range with the big boys to provide C3 spotting or use the ECM in ways your enemy won't approve of.  Use terrain to get into a favorable position or as a way to escape and cool off, then get back into position to wear at someone.  Lance mates would do well to bring things to the table the Yao Lien can't, like crit-seeking or anti-infantry weaponry, but unless you're spotting for a hard-hitting high-end sniper, they're also well-advised to be at least 5/8 like the Capellans' thoroughly excellent selection of heavy cavalry 'Mechs.

Stopping a Yao Lien is a bit difficult.  Once they decide to get out of your way, the jump jets make them a slippery prey, and a potential +4 target modifier between movement and the jets isn't always easy to deal with.  Then you have to hit it hard enough to breach the armor, and like a lot of SFE 'Mechs, you have to practically shred a Yao Lien to actually put it down.  Sure, the weapons are all in one relatively weak location, but then there's the C3 slave to deal with.  A lot of the dirty tricks don't really work that well - artillery is hard-pressed to nail something this slippery, Infernos might be helpful but rely on a short range delivery system and wouldn't stop a Yao Lien from jumping to safety, minefields don't work well against jumpy 'Mechs, etc.  That means you really need to fall back on good cooperative tactics between lance mates, covering each other and being prepared to pour fire into the Yao Lien.  One option that might be worth a try is to use tanks with powerful turreted weapons to provide some coverage to rear arcs.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #1 on: 13 January 2012, 19:10:42 »
Its not a mech that couldn't be made better, but given the asthetic reasons for some of the choices, its probably one that shouldn't.  I'm not a big fan of either SNPPCs or IJJs most of the time, but together they're a perfit pairing, alowing the mech to stay in the 7-9 sweet spot for shooting (or any other range if spotting and/or jamming is a priority).  And as with many IJJ mechs, the combination of nearly max armor and seven jump makes it a chore to put down, which is a perfict trait for a C3/ECM mech to have (and if it has big guns it can shoot at the enemy too, so much the better).  As that last paragraph alludes, there's not really a good way to stop it, short of just turning so much attention on it that even a Dire Wolf would feel unwelcome; it can keep out of opponent's short range with ease thanks to the speed and snubbies, it can jam enemy ECM, and even in the worst case it can just run like hell (well, jump like hell).

The only problem is finding enough mechs in the 3080s CCAF to properly support it an ensure that it can stick to its relitively narrow skermisher/spotter/jammer role, since it lacks like lighting groud speed to quickly close, or any long ranged weapons, or the weapons and heatsinks to keep up a high intensity of fire (thanks to the low heat from IJJs, its not killer, but +4 a turn needs to be dealt with some how). 
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #2 on: 13 January 2012, 19:34:21 »
I find it quite good, although I might go with a standard large laser to ease its heat burden and get a standard cockpit.
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #3 on: 13 January 2012, 19:47:22 »
The heat really isn't that bad.  It's a bit higher than I'd really prefer, sure, but it's not hard to manage.  And the snubbies have that 9 hex short range going for them.  That sort of reach for short range weapons lets you fence comfortably and works well with the jets by giving you a much wider range of positioning options that still don't compromise your accuracy that badly.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #4 on: 13 January 2012, 19:49:29 »
Fantastic article as usual, Moonsword. The Yao Lien is probably the nastiest canon C3 spotter in the game right now; it's very nearly flawless for the role. The only problem, as Iron Mongoose pointed out, is that the CCAF doesn't exactly have a great spread of C3-capable 'Mechs to group it with (although I suppose with the new prevalence of augmented lances in the CCAF that does widen its options a bit). Really, by all rights this a design that should have ended up with the DCMS, given how it fits their design style to a T, but apparently there is no justice in the universe.


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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #5 on: 13 January 2012, 22:19:15 »
3-4 heat for the jump isn't really a huge problem, just a tad more than running.
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #6 on: 14 January 2012, 02:29:00 »
It's a nice use of Snubbies, but I have a real problem with the electronics suite.

- C3-slave... aside from the rarity of them in the CCAF, it doesn't do a lot of good. Say you do have a friend feeding you data... you have SNPPCs, their damage drop-off really hurts.

- ECM. Why? The CCAF is full of ECM mechs, they don't need it to interrupt enemy formations. Seriously... fast, armored, jump-capable mech with SNPPCs? It cries out for a BAP!!!

- Small Cockpit, plus jump dependance in combat, unacceptable IMO.

- Why would they go to the effort of tossing in iJJs and leave it at 210 meters? It's not like the 7-hex rule is something applicable in-universe. I'm a bit troubled at the prevalence of this I'm seeing in cannon designs.


I'm glad they didn't slap Stealth Armor on it. I really feel it should have been built with that 11th integral DHS for some reason, even at the expense of some armor, but I couldn't tell you why. I'd argue in favor of a SNPPC + LPPC version.
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #7 on: 14 January 2012, 03:20:33 »
It's a nice use of Snubbies, but I have a real problem with the electronics suite.

- C3-slave... aside from the rarity of them in the CCAF, it doesn't do a lot of good. Say you do have a friend feeding you data... you have SNPPCs, their damage drop-off really hurts.

Well, in this case, the Yao Lien is the one that's supposed to be spotting. It jumps in at 8 or 9 hexes and provides its lance mates with medium range targeting numbers, short range for itself, and usually medium range for its opponent.

Quote
- ECM. Why? The CCAF is full of ECM mechs, they don't need it to interrupt enemy formations. Seriously... fast, armored, jump-capable mech with SNPPCs? It cries out for a BAP!!!

This unfortunately seems to be the standard response to c3i equipment. Pretty much every design is "Yank it for ECM and c3 Slave." Modern battles are just covered with ECM unfortunately.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #8 on: 14 January 2012, 04:27:42 »
After fighting the WoB? I can understand it, Limiting C3i is a good thing.
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #9 on: 14 January 2012, 04:55:21 »
For a moment in the first paragraph I thought that Amaris was producing the Eidolon. Or perhaps for a lot of moments after the first paragraph I thought that the WoB was producing it? Meh.


As to the 'mech itself, I like it. It does what it does fairly originally. Not perfect, (though I think this is one of those designs where 'perfect' is different for every modifier) but it does the job and it isn't bland.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #10 on: 14 January 2012, 05:21:41 »
It's a nice use of Snubbies, but I have a real problem with the electronics suite.

- C3-slave... aside from the rarity of them in the CCAF, it doesn't do a lot of good. Say you do have a friend feeding you data... you have SNPPCs, their damage drop-off really hurts.

Wrong end of the relationship.  As has been pointed out by several people (including in the article and in TRO3085 Supplemental), this is primarily intended to be acting as a spotter.

- ECM. Why? The CCAF is full of ECM mechs, they don't need it to interrupt enemy formations. Seriously... fast, armored, jump-capable mech with SNPPCs? It cries out for a BAP!!!

Under Tactical Operations (assuming you use all the relevant rules), ECM has three different operational modes, and all three of them have their place in a Yao Lien's arsenal.

Conventional jamming: Like it or not, Ravens aren't that hard to kill, and stealth 'Mechs frequently are better served not to get into short range, so they don't always make ideal jamming platforms for breaking up a network.  A Yao Lien has the armor and speed to get into interdiction positions, while the snubbies let it slap people who are getting jammed without getting into their short range itself.  It's also something you can do defensively.  Artemis is still fairly common and still shut down under this mode and you're immune to Narc homing pods, as well as enhancing the 'Mech's ability to prevent someone from finding out exactly where it is before it pounces.

Ghost targets: Armored or not, you're still a 55 tonner, and as one of the best mixes of speed and durability in C3 spotting, guess who's going to get tapped to go play tag with Mr. Assault Lance sometimes?  Besides, jumpy bastards like this don't win friends on the other side.  In offensive terms, this can also be used to 'project' a ghost target zone forward on a reasonably survivable platform or provide ghost target coverage to stealth 'Mechs that are still using their stealth armor.

ECCM: The main use here is obvious: Prevent the enemy from blocking your own C3 network!  You can also blow someone else's ghost targeting defensive regime open this way.

- Small Cockpit, plus jump dependance in combat, unacceptable IMO.

Not that fond of it myself but see below.

- Why would they go to the effort of tossing in iJJs and leave it at 210 meters? It's not like the 7-hex rule is something applicable in-universe. I'm a bit troubled at the prevalence of this I'm seeing in cannon designs.

The fact that finding another ton is not going to happen very easily has a lot to do with it.  The Yao Lien's armament and electronics don't leave a lot of options and some of this is inherited from the Eidolon's basic design.  Ceres is having problems modifying it to other armament packages.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #11 on: 14 January 2012, 08:15:58 »
Well, in this case, the Yao Lien is the one that's supposed to be spotting. It jumps in at 8 or 9 hexes and provides its lance mates with medium range targeting numbers, short range for itself, and usually medium range for its opponent.


Obviously, but in this case it has two things against it.

- It loses the reverse-effectiveness of picking off enemies that get to it's fire support by having 5 or 2 point weapons.

- If you're playing around in the 7-9 hex target range (stay out of his ECM to provide target data) then most of your fire support types using the target data are going to face medium-range TH numbers

It's a bad spotter IMO. I can see the Small Cockpit being a design holdover, and I am by no means arguing for optimization, but that one ton can go so far in other ways... from an 8th iJJ to an extra DHS to even TAG. AFAIK the CCAF do not have a great TAG mech unit, and they are the heaviest users of Arrow-IV out of any power out there.
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #12 on: 14 January 2012, 09:49:11 »
Good writeup Moonsword O0

So, the CCAF saw the Wraith, and decided "ooh, shiny... me want"

As the spiritual descendant to the Wraith, it's quirky, and quite useful
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #13 on: 14 January 2012, 10:13:47 »
- Small Cockpit, plus jump dependance in combat, unacceptable IMO.


Can you expand upon this? What does 'jump dependance' have to do with the small cockpit?
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #14 on: 14 January 2012, 10:31:04 »
Well, when you've got actuator damage and face PSRs for that, jumping generates more and at higher TNs, where as a mech that can walk avoids them.  So, the PSR hurting small cockpit compounds the increesed risk of PSRs caused by IJJ jump dependance.  Honestly, not a huge deal to me. 

As for spotting, medium range TNs are still better than long range TNs, so that LRM or GR unit 20 hexes out getting medium range TNs will still be thankful for it.  It just depends on which mech you're fighting and how much you want to expose your self, and how much support you have, if going for short ranged TNs is worth it or not.
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #15 on: 14 January 2012, 10:41:39 »
Good writeup Moonsword O0

So, the CCAF saw the Wraith, and decided "ooh, shiny... me want"

No, they did that with the Eidolon.  If anyone was behind the Wraith similarities, it was somewhere on the Word side of things.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #16 on: 14 January 2012, 10:45:46 »
Well, when you've got actuator damage and face PSRs for that, jumping generates more and at higher TNs, where as a mech that can walk avoids them.  So, the PSR hurting small cockpit compounds the increesed risk of PSRs caused by IJJ jump dependance.  Honestly, not a huge deal to me. 

Yeah, once your 'Mech is at that point, I wouldn't be too hard on the design team for a small cockpit, you might not even have a leg at the same point if you have to shave off armor to get a regular cockpit!
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #17 on: 14 January 2012, 10:48:18 »
Well, considering that you've got to lose a crit from somewhere to shove the cockpit on, I'm assuming he intends to sacrifice the C3 slave, not armor.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #18 on: 14 January 2012, 12:09:26 »
No, they did that with the Eidolon.  If anyone was behind the Wraith similarities, it was somewhere on the Word side of things.

Yeah, sorry I wasn't clearer. What I meant was that, having ample familiarity with the Wraith, they jumped at the chance to keep the design all to themselves.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #19 on: 14 January 2012, 16:33:15 »
Can you expand upon this? What does 'jump dependance' have to do with the small cockpit?

I would think because if you fall, you are unable to jump the following turn.  At which point, the Yao Lien would seem to REALLY become priority target #1. 

Just my $.02.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #20 on: 15 January 2012, 07:18:05 »
The Yao Lien is one of the most aesthetically bizarre mechs in the history of the franchise; its combination of Celestian with ghost-faced-killer mask is just out there and, frankly, I love it. Whoever at CGL came up with the idea, I take my hat off to you, sir.

With that being said, the mech is in an odd position at the best of times. A Cappie C3 mech is almost counter-intuitive in the post-Jihad era, what with the almost saturation-level use of Sealth armour (To the degree where "CCAF Variant" is synonymous with having the stuff), as well as the limited availability of C3 to the CCAF otherwise (off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single CCAF C3M mech beyond possibly Omni variations).

However, with that being said, it acts as a great C3 spotter. Jump like crazy into cover and then act as the go-to guy for your lancemates. The twin SN-PPCs support this role well, given that they are designed for "up close and personal" use, allowing it to be a harasser/hearder and backstabber as well as a spotter. Gratuitous use of the IJJs and cover combined with volley-firing the Snubbies should keep it out of trouble for the most part.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #21 on: 15 January 2012, 22:21:08 »
The Cappies actually have a C3M Yu Huang and C3M Lao Hu, both of which are actually fairly solid designs; the real problem is that they don't really have much else in the way of C3 slave designs that fit well with both the Yao Lien and the aforementioned master units.


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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #22 on: 16 January 2012, 01:56:40 »
Of course, the Cappies do have enough Omnis, it wouldn't be too hard to slap one one.

The real difficulty with Cappellans and C3 is that the Cappies are invested heavily in Stealth armor.  Turn on stealth, and the mech functions as if it is under a hostile ECM, cancelling the C3 network.  So, the C3 and Shadow Lances are doctrinally incompatible.

I'd slap C3 networks on the lower-end units (milita types) who are more likely to benefit from the targetting bonus.  Give the stealth to the more elite units who can hit on their own....

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #23 on: 17 January 2012, 08:21:35 »
Augmented lances.  Don't forget they get things like Morningstar and whatnot; Omni units like Men Shen and other tanks can benefit from a Slave inserted - and two tanks with each lance of 'mechs means you can run a pair of stealth designs as well as a C3 lance in a single unit.  Enjoy, kids, don't forget to scrape the dead Feddies off the bumper.
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #24 on: 17 January 2012, 11:59:19 »
Augmented lances.  Don't forget they get things like Morningstar and whatnot; Omni units like Men Shen and other tanks can benefit from a Slave inserted - and two tanks with each lance of 'mechs means you can run a pair of stealth designs as well as a C3 lance in a single unit.  Enjoy, kids, don't forget to scrape the dead Feddies off the bumper.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #25 on: 17 January 2012, 12:13:41 »
Was that errata'd recently?  Looking at TW pages 131 (C3) and 142 (stealth armor), there's no mention of a friendly stealth armor unit interfering with other friendly units' ability to interact with a C3 network, just its own.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #26 on: 17 January 2012, 12:33:24 »
Well, I suppose if the network went right through the stealthed unit....
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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #27 on: 17 January 2012, 12:36:41 »
Stealth ECM only works in the hex that the 'mech occupies. If you use them as flankers (or, for that matter, flanks) then they won't be in the way.

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #28 on: 17 January 2012, 13:39:05 »
Was that errata'd recently?  Looking at TW pages 131 (C3) and 142 (stealth armor), there's no mention of a friendly stealth armor unit interfering with other friendly units' ability to interact with a C3 network, just its own.

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jymset

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Re: Mech of the Week: YOL-4C Yao Lien
« Reply #29 on: 17 January 2012, 13:44:06 »
Welshman, speak up!

This thread's been agony to me for the past 4 days, as there's no 3085 'Mech more emotionally important to me. But before I yabber on, I want his take first!

Stealth ECM only works in the hex that the 'mech occupies. If you use them as flankers (or, for that matter, flanks) then they won't be in the way.

No, per p. 142 it works normally, but affects the deploying unit. Not the hex it's in. TW, p. 142: "When the stealth armor system is engaged, the ECM continues to function normally, but the ’Mech suffers effects as if in the radius of an enemy ECM suite (see p. 134)."

Thus, it should never affect friendly C3 networks beyond the stealth unit itself.
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