Tugs & Barges

[Colt Ward]

So . . iirc, we have two DS scale tugs, the Model 97 Octopus (3051) and the old SL-era Model 96 Elephant.  They are designed to latch on and push any ship around a system.  Once again looking at the size of most DS cargo carriers, it leaves me wondering where are the 'barges' of deep space for these tugs?  Things I can use to push massive amounts of goods up the gravity well to the recharge station's cargo bays to hold over for passing merchants?

And did the M96 Elephant ever get printed anywhere yet?

[Stormfury]

The Elephant is in TR: 3075.

In BT, tugs are used more for zero-g repairs, salvage, and recovery than anything else. The "barges" you're looking for are the Mule and Mammoth.

[Khymerion]

Couldn't it be possible to create something akin to cargo pallets using the same rules as you would use for making space stations and things like the BatSat and Capital but on a larger scale?

Do they have guidelines for how much mass something can push or pull in space to try and do something like that?

[cray]

Couldn't it be possible to create something akin to cargo pallets using the same rules as you would use for making space stations and things like the BatSat and Capital but on a larger scale?

There are current rules for space stations with cargo bays. You don't need more than that to make a big "barge," except...

Do they have guidelines for how much mass something can push or pull in space to try and do something like that?

...rules on how to push stuff in space, unless I missed a line in StratOps. I mean, the physics are dead simple since it's easy to recalculate acceleration when you know mass and thrust (and BT gives both mass and thrust for its spacecraft). Thrust (in tons-force) = Mass (in tons) x Acceleration (in G), run with it.

[Khymerion]

There are current rules for space stations with cargo bays. You don't need more than that to make a big "barge," except...

...rules on how to push stuff in space, unless I missed a line in StratOps. I mean, the physics are dead simple since it's easy to recalculate acceleration when you know mass and thrust (and BT gives both mass and thrust for its spacecraft). Thrust (in tons-force) = Mass (in tons) x Acceleration (in G), run with it.

Thanks for clearing up the first portion...

and I wanted to make sure there wasn't some strange ruling floating out there similar to ground vehicles having an upper limit on what they could haul (railway trains)...   I understand the physics behind it being dead simple but this game at times has a wonderful ability to at times askew quite far from such things as logic but if there isn't a counter-intuitive rule, running with dead simple logic works for me.

Again, thanks for clearing that up.

[Isanova]

Would it be wise to pair a Tug-equipped assault ship like the Elephant with a larger warship / warship squadron? I'm thinking they would be effective at laying space-mines should you want to, but also at helping salvage damaged/destroyed ships after combat... at the very least guiding them into stable orbits for later evaluation or stripping.

lol, don't suppose there are any rules for successfully ramming an enemy ship, latching on hard, and trying to tug it about? I can envision a ram-boarding ship that can try to throw off an enemy ship's maneuverability in combat, though it might only be practical against 2/3 ships

[Colt Ward]

When the Werewolf was escorting Peter's coalition into Tharkad, the Warden Wolves had a Elephant tug as one of its dropships, so there might be some doctrine for it.

[Stormfury]

Space mines (and even their own entry in TacOps says outright) are known to be of questionable usefulness, so unless you have literally no other means of defending yourself people do not bother with them. Deploying space mines requires a space mine dispensor, not a tug in any case.

Having them take up a collar in a combat force is of debatable usefulness. On the one hand, they offer some cargo space and other advantages with better weapons and armour than most DropShips. On the other hand, if you want cargo why not just carry a Mammoth or Mule, and if you want an Assault DropShip, why not just carry one? WarShips are already precious enough assets that compromising their ability to undertake their duties is not going to hold much appeal.

Post Star League/Age of War tugs are mostly seen at naval yards or assigned to salvage units. The Star Lord was fluffed as being equipped with magnetic harpoon thingies to assist in recovery of DropShips, so nations that follow the practice of its TR entry with reserving some to conduct salvage operations would probably assign some tugs to them permanantly as well.

So far as grappling an enemy vessel under combat conditions, the rules for them state that if the target resists the grapple (ie, spends any thrust points when the tug attempts to mate) the attempt automatically fails. There's also the problem of how low Tug thrusts can become once they have glommed on; if a 6/9, 15kt Octopus latches onto a Scout at 90kt it can only move them at 5/8*. A Fredesa drops it to about 3/5. A Vincent reduces it to 1.25/2.25. Once you start looking at "proper" WarShips you are looking at spending multiple turns just to counter their current velocity, never mind redirect their heading.

*Technically 5/8 and a bit, but the .25 thrust is negligible for the example. Other examples rounded similarly.

When the Werewolf was escorting Peter's coalition into Tharkad, the Warden Wolves had a Elephant tug as one of its dropships, so there might be some doctrine for it.

OTOH, the Wolves were meant to be scrambling for equipment. I'm not sure having a relict of the Star League around some centuries after it was constructed demonstrates too much, especially if the Wolves were going in to gather any and all isorla on offer.

[Fireangel]

I think of something else when I think of "barge".

Love the idea of using space station rules for making barges. If not for the crew requirements they'd be perfect!

[nerd]

While Tug dropships might not be able to do much in a combat scenario, they're great for filling out the universe, and scenario play.  The Tug could be salvaging something important, or be carrying repair crews.