Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank  (Read 15175 times)

Moonsword

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Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« on: 16 January 2012, 18:35:50 »
Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank

Debuting in 2611 from a 2609 contract to Grumman Industries, the Chaparral was the product of a search by the SLDF for a mobile Arrow IV platform to act as fire support for light armor and infantry formations and was introduced to players in the old TRO2750, with its new home in TRO3050U.  Built low to the ground, the Chaparral's looks have been compared to a cockroach's by a competing, and to be honest, considering how obnoxious artillery can be, you'll like them about as much.  (It's easier to see the comparison in the older TRO2750 artwork because of the differing angle from that in TRO3050U.)  Coincidentally, Grumman was also responsible for the Zephyr that was frequently seen alongside or spotting for the Chaparral.  Disappearing from the Inner Sphere with the Succession Wars, the Chaparral made a comeback after Focht opened Terra's military industry to exports, becoming a common sight across the Sphere and in Periphery forces before the Word closed things back down.

The TRO3050U article makes a lot out of the design's speed and durability.  Let's see if it lives up to the hype.  At 50 tons, this fits snugly into a light vehicle bay - a good decision - and tracks cost a bit of tonnage but open up some of artillery's usual hiding spots.  A 200 standard fusion engine... wait.  I thought this thing was supposed to be fast.  Compared to infantry, 64 kph isn't bad, but in tank terms, this is strictly middle of the road, and Arrow IVs lack the kind of range that gets them clear of marauding cavalry lances the way a tube artillery unit can.  5.5 tons of standard armor isn't that tough, either, but the distribution is clearly in favor of running like a coward at the slightest provocation without being dangerously thin: 16/18/36.  No, that's not backward.  You have over twice the armor on the rear that you do on the front.  The actual point of all of this is the Arrow IV artillery launcher mounted forward (yes, where the armor is thinnest) fed by three tons of ammunition, along with a rearward SRM 6 that carries as many shots as the Arrow IV does (one ton, 15 rounds) and a medium laser on each side.  Clearly, the idea here is that if someone starts threatening you, you should be running away.  Exactly how well that's going to work considering that the Chaparral isn't fast enough to outrun your typical heavy 'Mech is an interesting questions.  It is lightning quick compared to a Mobile Long Tom and can evade assault formations, I'll grant, but I heavily parking some sort of bodyguard unit on top of the artillery battery for a little active discouragement while Sir Robin bravely runs away with popguns a blazin'.

Although variants aren't especially common, they're not unknown.  Probably the most prosaic is a Jihad special that upgrades the mediums to ERMLs.  During the Civil War, some formations downgraded to an SRM 4 to fit a single machine gun while others made the same switch to get more Arrow IV ammo.  I recommend the latter, which gives you just enough to mix ammo types or the ability to carry three tons of, say, HE and a single ton of smoke or air defense rounds for special purposes.  During the Jihad, the most involved variant debuted to address the design's largest flaw according to TRO3050U: CASE, using ferro-fibrous armor.  An excess point of armor was applied to the stern.

There are artillery units that can look after themselves to a degree, or at least contribute to their own defense.  The Chaparral isn't one of them.  Find a hole and crawl in it, moving every so often if the enemy has artillery to throw off counter-battery fire.  If someone comes looking for you and your bodyguards can't drive them off, turn and run, peppering the enemy with SRMs as you.  HE vs. homing is a discussion that's going to be driven by what you have on hand other than the artillery, a problem somewhat beyond the scope of this article.  Air Defense Arrows might be a useful little surprise for anyone trying airstrikes, though.

The first option you want to consider for brutalizing artillery is just hammering the offending unit with counter-battery fire, but that may not be an option.  Airpower can be an option here, bearing in mind that artillery can shoot back pretty effectively, but another one is a mix of spotter VTOLs to locate the offending artillery platform and a lance or two of fast, jumping medium 'Mechs.  Think Wolverines or Phoenix Hawks.  Send them in to dispose of the problem.  Perhaps less socially acceptable but rather more spectacular is orbital bombardment.

References: The Master Unit List is a good first stop, but you'll also want to look at the modern art on Sarna and then gaze at the 1st Marik Militia's painted miniature on CamoSepcs.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #1 on: 16 January 2012, 20:35:02 »
The Chaparral is both more and less vulnerable to behind the lines raids given the short range of the Arrow IV, at least as measured by artillery yardsticks.  Sure it has to stick closer to the line, leaving it more vulnerable to someone punching through, but since that punch doesn't have to go too far, it is possible that they will still be engaged at the time they come upon the artillery.

Also, there is the 'good offense' defense.  How many units fast enough to get through enemy lines can soak the fire of a Chaparral battery that holds it's nerve, and lays into them with a direct fire artillery salvo before unassing?  All the while yelling for support.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #2 on: 16 January 2012, 22:53:27 »
Love this tank !

No really, the whole 50 ton vee bay & RUN away armor/weapon placement is great IMHO.

Its got just enough ammo to be useful & I find that till the Yellow Jacket - Arrow came out, this was my favorite platform.


The one thing I would like to see is a SW era downgrade.
I think Twin LRM-15's & 4 tons of ammo sounds like a fabulous option myself.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #3 on: 17 January 2012, 08:27:05 »
Frankly the thing needs a lesson from the Valentine Mk I Archer.  Mount the monster gun backward, so that you can drive REALLY FAST in the other direction!
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peter crowley

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #4 on: 17 January 2012, 10:03:21 »
For some reason I always thought this was a 5/8 design and so thought much more highly of it. Still it is a bit faster than most artillery designs and can fit in a light bay so it has its uses.

Welshman

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #5 on: 17 January 2012, 22:52:01 »
Back when 2750 came out this unit was awesome. In an early 1980's campaign our player group discovered a SL Cache that consisted of this and some SL infantry weapons. And wow, were we happy. It was such a threat that the GM ended up having the bad guys sabotage it to keep game balance.

Bring it forward to today and the only thing that it really has going for it is the fitting in a 50 ton vehicle bay. Shallow ammo bins, poor speed and poor armor and it's defensive weapons are all short ranged. I'd rather see an LRM 10 for running away as you need to start running before the enemy is even in long range.

I much prefer the Demolisher Arrow IV for a primary artillery piece. It's slow, but it is armored and has deep bins.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #6 on: 17 January 2012, 23:12:16 »

Bring it forward to today and the only thing that it really has going for it is the fitting in a 50 ton vehicle bay. Shallow ammo bins, poor speed and poor armor and it's defensive weapons are all short ranged. I'd rather see an LRM 10 for running away as you need to start running before the enemy is even in long range.

Indeed; it seems to me that the Padilla was meant to be the replacement for the Chaparral, especially in terms of ground speed and a more conventional armour layout.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #7 on: 17 January 2012, 23:21:21 »
and has deep bins.
2.5 shots more per launcher ?
I'll give you that 7 tons offers more variety but only at the expense of endurance since really 15 rounds v/s 17.5 rounds for a gun is minimal difference.

Now the Padilla, those are some deep bins   ;)


I'm in a campaign now where I'm running an LRM-Carrier (Arrow) customization, 15 shots for 2 Arrow Launchers,  now those are some short bins, but since our games are fairly short I haven't had "too" much of a problem w/ it yet.

Compared to the YellowJacket, Huey, Regulator, & Naga, the Chaparal looks good in the ammo department.

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Welshman

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #8 on: 17 January 2012, 23:30:04 »
2.5 shots more per launcher ?

True, I forgot the other reason of love the Demo. Two AIVs in a single vehicle. With just two Demolisher AIVs you have a major force advantage. Back in my days of the FGC I had a standard loadout of Two Demo AIVs, four Sprint TAGs, some kind of bodyguard armor or BA and then what ever Mechs worked for the mission.

Nothing like slamming four homing rounds into the back of an Assault Mech in a single round.

I love Arrow IV artillery. :)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #9 on: 18 January 2012, 00:05:38 »
It strikes me as a mobile artillery piece not meant to be parked off sheet somewhere, firing from afar... but to be in the center of a mobile armored regiment (or division) providing artillery barrage to soften the enemy before you roll up onto them.

It would be MUCH better with three ammo tons rather than the lasers... affording normal ammo, FASCAM to help cover such a unit's retreat, and tag-homing ammo. I'm not sure FASCAM was available to the league, however.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #10 on: 18 January 2012, 13:47:55 »
 The primary advantage for the Chaparral is that it is cheap relative to many Arrow platforms. The Padilla's XL engine and extra mass enable it to outperform the Chaparral in many ways at the cost of a much higher price tag. The Yellow Jacket artillery platform is just a cruel competitor even if it has to land before it fires.

Late edit: I messed up on a catch line so I dumped it. No change in obvious meaning.
« Last Edit: 18 January 2012, 18:44:23 by Minemech »

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #11 on: 18 January 2012, 14:04:00 »
Aye, its cheap, common, Terra was selling them, and since Terra's output is extreme, anyone can reasonably have one.  I don't always feel comfortable fielding the higher end Arrow IV platforms(Pilum, Padilla, Demo, Schiltron), esp not for my Canopian forces or mercs. 

Maelwys

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #12 on: 18 January 2012, 15:28:42 »
I think part of the speed appeal has to do with the time. Assuming I'm not missing anything, your choices at the time were the Helepolis (3/5) or the Mobile Long Tom Artillery (2/3). The Chaparral seems quite quick compared to the Long Tom, and even edges out the BattleMech in speed. I'm going to guess that if we see any more Age of War/Reunification War artillery designs, they're going to be similarly slow.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #13 on: 18 January 2012, 17:13:21 »
I think part of the speed appeal has to do with the time. Assuming I'm not missing anything, your choices at the time were the Helepolis (3/5) or the Mobile Long Tom Artillery (2/3). The Chaparral seems quite quick compared to the Long Tom, and even edges out the BattleMech in speed. I'm going to guess that if we see any more Age of War/Reunification War artillery designs, they're going to be similarly slow.

A few different points I want to hit in response:

Point 1: The Chaparral's speed in and of itself isn't something I object to.  It's the description.  Artillery isn't going to be fast on a tracked motive type unless you strip the chassis to the bone.  I object to characterizing something as speedy that can't evade a cavalry lance but it doesn't necessarily need to do that to be tactically viable.  Being able to make heavies trying to chase you work to do it is actually fast enough for the job it's doing - it can't outrun a lot of them, but they can't outrun the Chaparral either, a point I probably should have emphasized in the article a little more heavily.  None of that makes it fast, just average, but average doesn't mean bad.  The job can be done by a 3/5 unit, and 4/6 gives it some protection from motive hits inflicted by counter-battery fire and the ability to keep up with heavy 'Mechs in reasonably clear terrain.  Overall, my opinion of the design is that it would perhaps be better economizing on the defensive weaponry for more ammo, a turret, more speed, or heavier armor, but it's quite acceptable for the job and reasonably economical, something it definitively beats the Padilla out on.  It also fits into a light vehicle bay, something Padillas (or some of the other things we can compare it to) won't.

Point 2: There is nothing about building the Yellow Jacket, the Padilla, or the Regulator that the Star League couldn't have done in 2609.  Comparisons to them are, on a technological level, every bit as valid as comparisons to older hardware.  Yes, the Chaparral is faster than some of the other artillery units of the period, but at the same time, both of those units carry significantly heavier weapons.  The Helepolis also has considerably more durability, can get into terrain a Chaparral can't, and is more able to defend itself.  While we're on the subject, the CPLT-C5 Catapult is also within the Star League's grasp using extant hardware aside from the lasers, which makes it a much more direct 'Mech-vs-vehicle comparison.  Whether or not any of those other platforms give you capabilities that are essential for what the Chaparral does is something I'm undecided on.  Ultimately, the Chaparral is still an economical unit and it doesn't share the smaller Yellow Jacket's issues with things like flak, so it's still not going to come off too badly.

Point 3: Mobile Long Toms are not 2/3 unless someone else is hauling the ammo (or pulling the trailer hauling the ammo).  A self-deploying Mobile Long Tom unit with only organic assets can be outrun by Elementals and UrbanMechs, let alone a Chaparral.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #14 on: 19 January 2012, 01:38:15 »
I think part of the speed appeal has to do with the time. Assuming I'm not missing anything, your choices at the time were the Helepolis (3/5) or the Mobile Long Tom Artillery (2/3). The Chaparral seems quite quick compared to the Long Tom, and even edges out the BattleMech in speed. I'm going to guess that if we see any more Age of War/Reunification War artillery designs, they're going to be similarly slow.

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Maelwys

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #15 on: 19 January 2012, 03:10:25 »
According to the MUL, the Thor has an introduction of 2680, and the Marksman has an introduction of 2702, putting them well after the 2611 introduction date of the Chaparral. So they're not really useful when comparing the Chaparral's speed to what's already out there.  It may not be fast moving to everything out there, but if you just look at the other options, you could see where the descriptor comes in (most likely a bit of marketing speak, but if you gave someone used to the Long Tom a Chaparral, he'd probably think its fast in comparison).

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #16 on: 19 January 2012, 15:27:58 »
The Yellow Jacket artillery platform is just a cruel competitor even if it has to land before it fires.
I don't think it does.
Tube artillery has to, but Missile artillery you can keep flying.  Or that is how it seems to work.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #17 on: 19 January 2012, 15:28:55 »
It would be MUCH better with three ammo tons rather than the lasers... affording normal ammo, FASCAM to help cover such a unit's retreat, and tag-homing ammo.
It has 3 tons already.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #18 on: 19 January 2012, 15:32:02 »
True, I forgot the other reason of love the Demo. Two AIVs in a single vehicle. With just two Demolisher AIVs you have a major force advantage. Back in my days of the FGC I had a standard loadout of Two Demo AIVs, four Sprint TAGs, some kind of bodyguard armor or BA and then what ever Mechs worked for the mission.

Nothing like slamming four homing rounds into the back of an Assault Mech in a single round.
Too bad they changed the rule on the direction Homing rounds come from.
I guess Herb & Randal didn't like being able to take out a Pillager in 1 round w/ a 10 ton Sprint.

Of course, you can still often get some assault to turn around away from the Arrow launcher if he's not paying attention and tries to get the Jenner off his back   ;)
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Diablo48

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #19 on: 19 January 2012, 17:25:07 »
It has 3 tons already.

It is artillery.  There is no such thing as "too much ammo".


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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #20 on: 19 January 2012, 17:33:47 »
It would be MUCH better with three ammo tons rather than the lasers... affording normal ammo, FASCAM to help cover such a unit's retreat, and tag-homing ammo. I'm not sure FASCAM was available to the league, however.
You do realize that tag-homing is the default munition for A-IV's, right?

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #21 on: 19 January 2012, 18:24:27 »
I like HE.  Not dependent on TAG.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #22 on: 19 January 2012, 23:04:29 »
I like HE.  Not dependent on TAG.

Also very nice if your enemy bunches up and you manage to catch them in the 'splash'.

In terms of one Demolisher(Arrow IV) vs two Chaparrals, the later collectively have more armor (despite being less advanced), more speed, heavier defense armament, and can use it while fleeing.  About the only advantage is that a fleeing Arrow IV Demolisher can flip the turret around and try to lay direct fire back at you, but it also would be exposing its weakest armor.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #23 on: 19 January 2012, 23:16:57 »
I like HE.  Not dependent on TAG.
A-IV don't get HE, they get something like it (non-homing)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #24 on: 20 January 2012, 04:21:15 »
A-IV don't get HE, they get something like it (non-homing)
And the difference is...
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #25 on: 20 January 2012, 12:54:56 »
I sort of expected an ERLM version of this tank
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #26 on: 20 January 2012, 16:38:41 »
And the difference is...
Apart from the name, I'm pretty sure sure A-IV default to Homing rounds, with the non-homing originally developed as a back-up

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #27 on: 20 January 2012, 17:23:07 »
Apart from the name, I'm pretty sure sure A-IV default to Homing rounds, with the non-homing originally developed as a back-up

Based on my reading of Tactical Operations and Historical: Reunification War, not exactly. The rounds were developed and introduced in parallel by the Terran Hegemony during the Reunification War.  While precision fire was a goal, there was also a goal from the outset of having conventional methods available.  The non-homing rounds were reintroduced earlier, however, and both ammunition types are equally (un)available in all eras covered by the Tactical Operations availability codes.

Considering that their cost is what's listed as the ammo cost for Arrow IV launchers, the default appears to be non-homing rounds, but that really has basically no impact on a game.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #28 on: 23 January 2012, 08:49:52 »
I don't think it does.
Tube artillery has to, but Missile artillery you can keep flying.  Or that is how it seems to work.
That'd be a major change recently, then? because only artillery I know of that didn't have to land for launch was underwing-mounted Arrow-IV's on ASFs (and conventionals that could carry them).

Putting an A4 launcher on ASF or DS meant that the craft had to land before it could fire. If that has changed, I know what I am going to do my missile-armed Slayers... :D
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Chaparral Missile Artillery Tank
« Reply #29 on: 23 January 2012, 12:14:45 »
It changed in the move to TacOps and it's not missile artillery in general, just Arrow IVs.  You want to fire a cruise missile, you have to land first, then fire.

 

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