Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank  (Read 25323 times)

Moonsword

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Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« on: 30 January 2012, 19:14:36 »
Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank

Towards the end of the Succession Wars, Defiance Industries embarked on a program to create a new tank design to take up some of the slack from the BattleMech on defense and worked to develop a design that wasn't based on older Star League concepts. Opting for a smaller silhouette thanks to a low turret that also improves the ability to maneuver in cities, the “Desert Knights” development program was rumored to be the target of infiltration attempts by Combine and League agents and part of a double program with the related Rommel heavy tank.  The program was a triumph of both engineering prowess and raw industrial might as the Lyrans set up an entirely new fusion engine plant to power the vehicles. After a very arduous field test with Hansen's Roughriders (now best remembered for their nuclear-punctuated roaring rampage of revenge that made both a shambles and a mockery of the Taurian Concordat's defense establishment after the murder of their dependents), the Patton and Rommel entered production in 3027. While the Rommel has three fairly different variants (not counting the prototype Howitzer model), both variants of the Patton are solid, competent line tanks.

Built on the same 65 ton tracked chassis as the Rommel, the Patton also shares its 260-rated standard fusion engine, giving it a similar 65 kph flank speed.  The differences start with the armored shell.  Where the Rommel's 11 tons give it a solid level of protection on par with the Manticore or Po, the Patton is an archetypal brick at 14.5 tons of standard plate, enough to out-armor any heavy 'Mech and not an uncommon level among smaller assault 'Mech designs.  The layout of 51/46/38/51 emphasizes the forward arc heavily, and all I can really find to suggest is shaving a couple of points one way or another to beef up the rear to withstand a pair of AC/20 hits.  The armament is a little more well-rounded than the Rommel, with an AC/10 fed by two tons of ammunition and an LRM 5 with a single ton in the turret supplemented by a forward-fixed small laser and a flamer facing aft to keep infantry from having any tail gate parties.

The version from Record Sheets: Upgrades, now found in Record Sheets 3058 Unabridged's Inner Sphere volume, is a solid upgrade to the whole design that doesn't try to get fancy and doesn't need to.  The main gun is now an Ultra/10 with three tons of ammunition.  There's pros and cons to that - foremost among the latter, if it jams, you're out all your mid-range striking power and most of your firepower overall - but  the Ultra/10 is a solid enough weapon that used conservatively, you're going to get a lot of good mileage out of it.  Among other things, the extra three hexes of range is handy since the LRMs are gone.  Instead, your secondary weapons are a pair of medium lasers in the turret and a trio of machine guns, two forward and one aft, fed from a single half-ton ammunition bin.  They paid for the upgrades by swapping the armor for ferro-fibrous - your overall protection is the same but you save 1.5 tons doing it.

Honestly, the Patton is one of those units that is really very simple to operate, so I'm going to cover the basics after pointing out that lone LRM 5s are always an opportunity to annoy someone with creative ammo choices.  First of all, try to avoid exposing your flanks.  While the armor is quite thick, the critical and motive hit charts are even less forgiving in the side and rear arcs, so there's no reason to take chances.  Pick your terrain, get in it, and then maneuver with a purpose to give yourself advantages and deny the same to your enemy.  With the Ultra model, stick to standard fire rates unless you've got good numbers or good reason to expect the tank's going to die anyway - jamming your main gun is really going to suck.

Unless you manage to pop something important with a through-armor critical (like, say, the crew), you're not going to kill a Patton without a fair degree of effort spent drilling through the armor.  Crit-seekers are important - they make tanks slow down or even stop moving, which both makes them easier to hit and increases your tactical options - but you need some bigger guns to cut through the armor plating and actually punch it out.  PPCs or AC/10s are a great choice in 3025 but large lasers aren't far behind; later on, you've got Gauss rifles and various advanced flavors of the above to consider.  Other than that, there's simply not really any tricks.  They aren't myopic like older Rommels were and they don't have range minimums on anything other than the LRMs.  If you want to try for quick kills, a dusting of Inferno gel works decently, and artillery or mines can be used to either hem them in or convince them to get out of a fire trap.

References: The first stop is always the Master Unit List, and like last week, there's a variety of units over at CamoSpecs.

Hellraiser

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #1 on: 30 January 2012, 19:18:05 »
I like the 3025 Patton more than the Upgrade.
Just not an Ultra-10 fan, and think an LBX would have made for a better option IMHO.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #2 on: 30 January 2012, 19:24:19 »
If you're afraid of jams, it's simple, just use the Ultra in single fire mode only.  You've got the armor to risk being a pill box effectively.

OTOH, much like the M46/M47/M48/M60 designs, the basic version is still good enough if you don't care about New Toy Syndrome.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #3 on: 30 January 2012, 23:24:46 »
LB-10-X's only have the cluster effects over UAC-10's (and the weight) and this is an MBT so the ability to double tab is probably more useful (or viewed as such by the designers, remember this is a Lyarn design)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #4 on: 30 January 2012, 23:35:06 »
LB-10-X's only have the cluster effects over UAC-10's (and the weight) and this is an MBT so the ability to double tab is probably more useful (or viewed as such by the designers, remember this is a Lyarn design)
If it was really Lyran they would have given it a Gauss & given the Romell an Ultra-20   >:D

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #5 on: 30 January 2012, 23:37:12 »
 O0 I've always been a fan of the Rommel/Pattons.  O0
A pair of them with my Warhammer & Awesome combo, and I'll take on just about anyone of similar tonnage.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #6 on: 31 January 2012, 03:24:20 »
@Hellraiser, the Gauss Rifle effectively weighs 2.5 tons more (but interesting the same weight as an UAC/20) so to make that work they'd have to move the med lasers to the front and ditch all but one of of the machine guns (I'd guess the rear one would stay)

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #7 on: 31 January 2012, 12:27:32 »
The Patton is slightly better then the Rommel in 3025.  It's too dangerous to ignore (say what you want about the AC20 bubble of doom, an AC10's longer range means you have to deal with it's carrier), and too tough to be an easy kill. 
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #8 on: 01 February 2012, 15:36:24 »
The Patton is slightly better then the Rommel in 3025.  It's too dangerous to ignore (say what you want about the AC20 bubble of doom, an AC10's longer range means you have to deal with it's carrier), and too tough to be an easy kill.

I believe that 3025 Patton is better even during jihad. This is for the simple reason that it can use special ammo.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #9 on: 01 February 2012, 16:00:14 »
I believe that 3025 Patton is better even during jihad. This is for the simple reason that it can use special ammo.

I would tend to favor the Rommel later because of its Gauss variant.  The 3025 Patton is a solid machine, but it is hard to argue with the range and power of that rifle.


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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #10 on: 01 February 2012, 18:45:16 »
I believe that 3025 Patton is better even during jihad. This is for the simple reason that it can use special ammo.

It can, but the ammo bins aren't really deep enough to make that strategy effective.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #11 on: 01 February 2012, 18:58:54 »
It can, but the ammo bins aren't really deep enough to make that strategy effective.

Eh, 10 turns of firing at 15 hexes is pretty good for a 3025 tank to survive. Or 10 shots of regular and 5 of precision is 15 turns, longer than I'd probably let it be effective against me.
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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #12 on: 01 February 2012, 19:18:28 »
Effective?  It's certainly effective enough at 10 shots to justify the exercise.  I've done some very rude things to someone with precision AC/20s before even with a very limited ammo supply.  AC/10s lack the sheer concentrated punch to be that rude but they're still not really something hovers or Bugs are going to enjoy finding pointed at them with a -2 bonus.

More effective than a Gauss Rommel?  That depends on what you're shooting at and how far away it is.  The Gauss rifle's longer range cancels some of the precision accuracy bonus at certain ranges (much more so than tends to be the case comparing a Clan LPL against a Clan ER PPC because of the greater differences) and the increased striking power has obvious benefits.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #13 on: 02 February 2012, 12:23:54 »
@Hellraiser, the Gauss Rifle effectively weighs 2.5 tons more (but interesting the same weight as an UAC/20) so to make that work they'd have to move the med lasers to the front and ditch all but one of of the machine guns (I'd guess the rear one would stay)
It also gets by on 1 ton less ammo.
So really if you just scrap the MG's you are fine and even have 1/2 ton left over for CASE which it really should have had.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #14 on: 02 February 2012, 12:27:01 »
I believe that 3025 Patton is better even during jihad. This is for the simple reason that it can use special ammo.
Agreed.
Something about a ton of precision (or 2) and some Thunder Aug LRMs just makes for fun.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #15 on: 02 February 2012, 15:32:27 »
Agreed.
Something about a ton of precision (or 2) and some Thunder Aug LRMs just makes for fun.

ARAD makes a fun option for irritating all the ECM carriers too.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #16 on: 02 February 2012, 16:44:44 »
One of the curious things about Precision ammo and tanks is that the ammo requires the target to be moving to get the bonus, and tanks have a tendency to stop moving.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #17 on: 02 February 2012, 17:52:49 »
One of the curious things about Precision ammo and tanks is that the ammo requires the target to be moving to get the bonus, and tanks have a tendency to stop moving.

Luckily tanks can fight opponents who aren't tanks.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #18 on: 04 February 2012, 01:15:35 »
One of the curious things about Precision ammo and tanks is that the ammo requires the target to be moving to get the bonus, and tanks have a tendency to stop moving.
Or you stop the target with the one ton of precision ammo and hammer it then with the second ton of standard ammo...
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #19 on: 06 February 2012, 23:38:27 »
One of the curious things about Precision ammo and tanks is that the ammo requires the target to be moving to get the bonus, and tanks have a tendency to stop moving.
Hover tanks rarely stop moving...........well, till I've hit them w/ Precision ammo anyway   >:D
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #20 on: 07 February 2012, 00:25:29 »
One of the curious things about Precision ammo and tanks is that the ammo requires the target to be moving to get the bonus, and tanks have a tendency to stop moving.

No problem. That target is going to get hit so much more by everything else so loss of the bonus and half of the ammo isn't a problem.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #21 on: 08 February 2012, 15:56:58 »
Isn't one of the advantages of multiple crew members in combat vehicles (vs 'Mechs) the ability to unjam UACs?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #22 on: 08 February 2012, 16:07:02 »
News to me.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #23 on: 08 February 2012, 16:17:38 »
Isn't one of the advantages of multiple crew members in combat vehicles (vs 'Mechs) the ability to unjam UACs?

I've never seen that rule.  I thought the fluff of Ultra ACs was that the loading mechanism burned out.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #24 on: 08 February 2012, 16:26:44 »
According to 2750(possibly superceded by now), it was a circuit board that blew or was otherwise disabled by the heavy vibrations of firing the Ultra at full-auto. It also said the repair was easy, but took several minutes, something not normally possible during a normal game. If rules for insufficient tank crew exist, I'd allow a player to try it, as long as it still took however long StratOps says such a repair should take, and the tank would be ashort a guy for that long. And you'd *still* have to roll, so it wouldn't be a guaranteed success.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #25 on: 08 February 2012, 16:42:56 »
I think there may be some confusion because of the term 'jam'. A critical hit can jam a weapon on a tank, which can be corrected by the crew spending a turn clearing it. This is a different jam from a UAC jam. More of a preserve, perhaps. Or marmalade.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #26 on: 08 February 2012, 16:48:50 »
Jamming an ultra releases a large amount of sticky goop?

Y'know, this actually makes sense.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #27 on: 08 February 2012, 21:27:06 »
MaxTech addresses some jamming rules. Per pg17, weapon critical hits can result in jams that can be cleared. Per pg28, multi-crew vehicles can clear turret or weapon jams resulting from critical hits.

However, skimming around, it seems I misremembered that rule as applying to UACs. UACs apparently remain jammed for an entire scenario.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #28 on: 09 February 2012, 00:32:36 »
MaxTech addresses some jamming rules. Per pg17, weapon critical hits can result in jams that can be cleared. Per pg28, multi-crew vehicles can clear turret or weapon jams resulting from critical hits.

However, skimming around, it seems I misremembered that rule as applying to UACs. UACs apparently remain jammed for an entire scenario.

It does sound like the ability to unjam the weapon in combat should apply to RACs though.


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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Patton Tank
« Reply #29 on: 09 February 2012, 01:02:28 »
What are you talking about, RACs have always had the ability to unjam.  You have to declare it during the End Phase (like dumping ammo), and the following round you can only expend walking/cruising movement and can't attack, but you can attempt to unjam as many RACs as you'd like.
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