Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis  (Read 21391 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« on: 24 February 2012, 16:26:27 »
’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis

A product of the Terran Hegemony’s ability to concentrate on specialized BattleMech designs, as well as the culmination of a shift from offensive strategic thinking to a more defensive bent, the Helepolis was the first BattleMech to mount an artillery piece. Named in an obscure reference to an ancient siege engine.

Though I seem to remember that name being that the Greeks gave to a city in Egypt (Luxor I believe). Meaning “City of the Sun”.

The original HEP-1H Helepolis was unveiled in 2460 to much skepticism from artillerymen, MechWarriors, and analysts who felt that trying to use a BattleMech for artillery duties was a waste of funds when perfectly good vehicles could do that job. And in the beginning, they may have had a point. While I realize my notions might be skewed by more “modern” notions, the 180-rated primitive engine gives the design a top speed similar to the later Annihilator. And based on my experience, slow and steady just means an aerospace fighter (or ten) are going to strike you in the rear.

Yes, the gamemaster can be a bastard at times…

On the positive side, the design does have 94% of maximum protection. This allows the design to withstand two PPC blasts to any front location (save the head), and three to the chest and legs. All rear locations can take one blast (though if someone is behind you, you are already doomed). Eleven single heat sinks provide some dissipation. Weapons systems are based around a massive Armstrong Sniper, capable of firing a full 18 map sheets down range. Two tons of ammo allow for some variation. A large laser allows for some combat closer in, with a medium laser and 6-pack SRM for back-up. One ton of SRM ammo is allocated for the launcher.

The Hegemony’s decision to use the design to guard key locations in fixed lances makes some sense. Sort of like putting hordes of UrbanMechs in cities to make your enemies curse you to their dying breaths. (Frankly putting those two ideas together might make your opponents literally kill you.)

By 2488, modern materials had entered the scene, and the Helepolis was upgraded to the HEP-2H model. The engine became a 225-rated VOX engine, allowing the design to keep up with the Mackies rumbling about. The heat sinks were upgraded to doubles, and one removed. The ammunition was CASEd, and a 10-rack LRM was installed in the left torso. Some armor was shaved off while being upgraded, mostly to the legs. Then, in 2625, the HEP-3H designation appeared with the replacement of the large laser with an extended version.

The Succession Wars were not kind to the Helepolis as they fell in battles where they were used in ways not suitable. However, the surviving members of VEST recently resurrected the design in a production facility scraped together on Solaris in the ashes of the Blakist campaign there. The major changes are the use of an endo-steel skeleton and a 300-rated light fusion engine to boost the speed to that of a Black Knight. Weight constraints forced the splitting of the 10-rack LRM for twin 5-racks.

Frankly, my only wonder is why the Capellans with their love of all things artillery haven’t made their own variant of this design yet.

Using one of these machines requires two main considerations. One is terrain. The other is what friends you are bringing to the battlefield. In open field conditions, these machines are poor, except as support. In more constrained, or built-up positions, these machines can shine. Try to keep yourself from being exposed, watch for aircraft (though a good flak shot might make them wish they hadn’t picked on you), and keep mobile if you feel the need. While there is a line in both the TRO, and the Primitive XTRO about having to come to a full stop before firing the Sniper, I haven’t been able to find this in the rules. (And if it is there, is it for all artillery? Might need to change how we use those Arrow-toting Catapults.) Of course, movement also means you won’t be able to retain any places you do land a shell. Do note, if your opponent brings his own artillery, shooting that first is always a good idea.

As for friends, bring things that will make your foe weep, or have to choose. While the UrbanMech may not inspire much fear, putting a few lances will. Or perhaps an Annihilator or two. Hunchbacks would also be nice, at least for when your opponent closes. And if you want to make him face a Catch-22, throw a Pillager in. Or my friend’s new favorite, the Thunder Hawk. If vehicles are more your flavor, Partisans, Demolishers, and the occasional Alacorn will make fine companions.

Fighting one is simple on paper: get in close and remove the threat. In practice, most opponents do assign bodyguards. Which is why you bring your own big guns. Like a few Catapults. Or maybe an O-Bakemono. If you’re Clan, the Naga fits too. Though if you are Clan, the Huitzilopochtli works just as well (and fits more into doctrine). Remember, counter-battery fire is your friend (until he does it to you). Or is it the warrior’s Golden Rule? Do to him before he can do it to you?

Inner Sphere vehicles to use start with the Long Tom, even though that will be the first target he shoots at (light armor, and really big gun). Throw in a Marksman, or a Thor. Maybe a Schiltron.

Aside from like-to-like, bring lots of BattleMechs that have the ability to shoot far and accurate. With the above Clan view, a Turkina B works. Just target the left torso and hope for fireworks.

And before I forget, spread out. Artillery hurts less if you aren’t bunched up. There is also the close-in and shoot him in the face method, but I would usually reserve that for only the most desperate situations, if his bodyguards are of any use.

Frankly, when dealing with artillery designs, this is one of the few times I’d consider sacrificing an aerospace fighter or two to kick ’em in the teeth. Especially if it’s my favorite bird, the Eisensturm A. Heavy Gausses tend to knock the life out of one’s opponents.

Martius

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #1 on: 24 February 2012, 16:42:18 »
Historic Helepolis: http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/Helepolis.htm

I am rather fond of this 'Mech somehow. The Sniper is not that scary but it can be rather annoying for the opponent to deal with.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #2 on: 24 February 2012, 17:10:49 »
My temp job becomes a permanent position, it's Friday, and you give me a Helepolis article? What, did someone move my birthday and not tell me? O0

As someone who loves to use Artillery, the Helepolis is almost a godsend. Artillery units in BattleTech usually have but a handful of weaknesses, usually stemming from the fact that 99% of artillery are field guns or combat vehicles.

They're slow; The Helepolis doesn't change that, but the all-terrain abilities inherent in all mechs remedies that somewhat by allowing you to move your guns over or through terrain normally impassable.

They're thinly armored; Definitely not a problem here.

They can't defend themselves; While not up to the standards of another heavy mech, the non-arty weapons carried by the Helepolis certainly do not qualify as popguns. Individual Helepolii are more than capable of dealing with a fast hover or light mech trying to quickly strike at backfield assets, and the concentrated fire of a lance of them can easily deal with larger threats, especially if they pause their bombardment to bring their Snipers to bear. I'd still escort these things, but the escorts can be lighter or more specialized(a Firestarter and/or Rifleman might work) than you might need otherwise, freeing up heavier elements for your battleline.

They're easy to disable; Not a problem here. Helepolii are not vulnerable to motive crits or rapid armor depletion like tanks are, so damage that would park even the mighty Demolisher(Arrow) will simply be shrugged off by this mech. You want to silence that gun, you gotta kill the mech the hard way. For the same reason, counter-battery fire will take much longer to bring down a Helepolis than any tank. (Barring lucky shots, of course.

The HEP-1H is definitely a pure support unit, probably grouped with field artillery, or at least fielded much the same way. The HEP-2H's increased speed and conventional firepower opens up the possiblity of tactical support, operating alongside(or just behind) your main battle units, using the unique properties of ther main gun to go after individual problems instead of calling the full battery's fire down on a general area. Much like newer units with snubtillery(or the Lyrans' historical use of the Marksman), I see such close-assault Helepolii being used to eliminate infantry(and later BA) concnetrations, engage flanking hovers and fast lights without worrying about their massive TMMs, or quickly reduce specific enemy formations to rubble. And even if such threats do not reveal themselves, I doubt anyone wants to face down a gun with a 20/10 damage rating...
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Welshman

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #3 on: 24 February 2012, 17:18:51 »
Some day I really need to do an all Star League era campaign.

Maybe when Liberation of Terra comes out.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #4 on: 24 February 2012, 19:11:41 »
The Helepolis is a great mech. Weirdo pointed the high marks.. it has all the good things of arty in one nice package hard to break. I would like to point that using arty in direct fire mode is very, very funny in a evil way.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #5 on: 25 February 2012, 00:13:23 »
@Weirdo, Given your comments the only way to upgrade this thing would be JJs? Which actually sounds like a good idea for a couple of your arty pieces in any game

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #6 on: 25 February 2012, 00:20:39 »
Could work...maybe an infighter variant with a snubbie Sniper and JJs?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #7 on: 25 February 2012, 00:57:12 »
I'm thinking the full cannon, giving a piece that could of mobility could come in handy

Taurevanime

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #8 on: 25 February 2012, 03:17:24 »
Could work...maybe an infighter variant with a snubbie Sniper and JJs?
I would keep the full cannon. I like to have jumpjets on my mech so I can put them in difficult to reach positions for units not equipped with jump jets. It would also allow it to more quickly get out of a bad position when it is forced to be fighting inside a city.
But yeah, the thought of sending these things to hide out in the mountains on a besieged world really does make me imagine a whole bunch of curse words.

As for the comment of why the Cappies don't have a variant of this mech. I thought it was the FWL who loved tube artillery and the Cappies who loved the Arrow IV. And the FedSuns is getting the Cruise Missile, though that one is really rare still. And a piece I think you will only see on actual ships and dropships due to their weight.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #9 on: 25 February 2012, 11:52:45 »
I do agree about the JJs.  As Werdo points out, artilery is mostly confied to opperating in the sort of relitively open, clear terrain that armor can use.  While the Helepolis overcomes some of that, JJs would mean it can get into some really tricky spots that make it hard or even impossible to access for hovers and ground bound mechs so often employed to race into enemy back fields and tangle with artilery.  Putting your Sniper up on a mesa or steep hill or on the other side of a gourge or some other place limits the sort of units that can actualy attack it; what better way to free up more units for the front lines, as opposed to using valuable Hunchbacks and Demolishers or whatever as body guards several kilometes behind the lines.  Send along some mechs with jumpjets and LB ACs to cover fighters (or what ever, since the only jumping LB mech that comes quickly to mind is the Emperor, which is pretty nice to have in a fight, though I'm sure there are more I can't think of) and call it a day.
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Taurevanime

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #10 on: 25 February 2012, 15:47:28 »
There is the 5D Enforcer. And everyone's favourite mech. The GRM-01A Garm.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #11 on: 25 February 2012, 16:54:29 »
I do agree about the JJs.  As Werdo points out, artilery is mostly confied to opperating in the sort of relitively open, clear terrain that armor can use.  While the Helepolis overcomes some of that, JJs would mean it can get into some really tricky spots that make it hard or even impossible to access for hovers and ground bound mechs so often employed to race into enemy back fields and tangle with artilery.  Putting your Sniper up on a mesa or steep hill or on the other side of a gourge or some other place limits the sort of units that can actualy attack it; what better way to free up more units for the front lines, as opposed to using valuable Hunchbacks and Demolishers or whatever as body guards several kilometes behind the lines.  Send along some mechs with jumpjets and LB ACs to cover fighters (or what ever, since the only jumping LB mech that comes quickly to mind is the Emperor, which is pretty nice to have in a fight, though I'm sure there are more I can't think of) and call it a day.

Royal Shadow Hawk maybe?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #12 on: 25 February 2012, 18:35:26 »
Ugly mech. But I've found it in the time or two I've played with it, it can be effective. But If I need artillery I'll just pull out the Long Toms and the LRM Carriers instead.  Do like the idea of pairing them up with Urbanmechs in a city fight though, may be something to set up in the future...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #13 on: 25 February 2012, 22:33:17 »
Weird mech. I would never deploy them in anything less than a full lance, but that would actually be a very easy and capable way to add artillery to mech regiments that otherwise would struggle a lot to incorporate artillery.

Echo the call for JJs, it needs a 2/3/2 or 3/5/3 rating in a big way.

What I really don't understand is the missiles. Particularly on the newer versions, you cry out for AMS in case you find yourself in an artillery duel with the much more common Arrow-IV. I wouldn't go so far as installing fancy armor, but the missile backup weapons scream ammo bombs to me. Install dual LLs, it has enough range and damage to deal with headhunting units. Imagine a fast lance running into a lance of jumping, dual-LL Heli's... not an easy take down.

It also needs way more ammo than two tons... three or four minimum. A lance of these is going to be backing up nothing less than a battalion sized engagement, and 20 shots is nothing.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #14 on: 25 February 2012, 22:39:28 »
Incidentally it's one of the few mechs that would truly benefit from a satellite uplink
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #15 on: 26 February 2012, 08:16:42 »
AMS doesn't affect Arrow IV artillery (or cruise missiles, for that matter).  If you're dueling with someone who's using artillery, AMS is not going to affect things unless the ammo bin gets tagged.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #16 on: 26 February 2012, 08:39:23 »
The LRM can also be loaded with mines. Which would make enemies curse this mech even more.
Not only does it reign death on you from outside any range you can hit back at it. (Unless you brought artillery of your own) It then also employs mines to make it even harder for the troops you send to hunt it down to reach it? I am reminded of the snipers in Battlefield 2 that deployed claymores.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #17 on: 26 February 2012, 15:26:16 »
Though I seem to remember that name being that the Greeks gave to a city in Egypt (Luxor I believe). Meaning “City of the Sun”.

You're thinking of Heliopolis.  Helepolis means "Taker of Cities".
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #18 on: 26 February 2012, 18:53:46 »
Another nice thing about the Helepolis is that you can drop your artillery support from robot along with the rest of your assault force. No more securing an LZ for your dropships to off-load the artillery.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #19 on: 26 February 2012, 20:13:49 »
Another nice thing about the Helepolis is that you can drop your artillery support from robot along with the rest of your assault force. No more securing an LZ for your dropships to off-load the artillery.

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"from robot"? :)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #20 on: 26 February 2012, 23:49:42 »
"from robot"? :)
And now I am imagining a scene where a pair of mechs attack their friendly Helepolis in order the rip off the Sniper cannon and have it function as a field gun.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #21 on: 27 February 2012, 06:35:04 »
"from robot"? :)

Stupid autocorrect, I wonder what my typo was that turned orbit to robot  :-[

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #22 on: 27 February 2012, 09:21:44 »
Don't be too hard on the autocorrect, it meant well. After all, dropping something from a robot is almost as cool as dropping it from orbit.

And while not very efficient, it *can* be done in-game.

The LRM can also be loaded with mines. Which would make enemies curse this mech even more.
Not only does it reign death on you from outside any range you can hit back at it. (Unless you brought artillery of your own) It then also employs mines to make it even harder for the troops you send to hunt it down to reach it? I am reminded of the snipers in Battlefield 2 that deployed claymores.

Mines are fun. Also remember that between the missiles and Sniper, a Helepolis has three weapon systems that can lay down smoke at very different ranges. A lance of enemies comes after your battery, and some well-placed smoke can break LOS to select units, allowing you to defeat the attackers in detail. Heck, if you're good enough, you might even be able to do it without interrupting your Sniper bombardment!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #23 on: 27 February 2012, 09:38:09 »
The LRM-10 isn't worth deploying FASCAM missiles on it. The Sniper can deliver a 20-point minefield itself. It can also lay down a cover of smoke before an enemy to cover laying down a few minefields in from of them.

Losing the LRM-10 gives you an extra 6 tons of ammo, making it a lot more effective in my book.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #24 on: 27 February 2012, 09:59:00 »
I'd lean towards the 10-pt minefield being just as good for stopping/infuriating the kind if light and fast units that are most likely to get sent to play tag with big, slow guns. Also, remember that as far as your main force is concerned, distracting enemy big guns has the exact same effect as destroying enemy big guns; they're not shooting at you. I did it myself once, using repeated airstrikes to take a large force of Arrow IV units out of a fight. I didn't kill any of them, but they were so busy using those missiles as defensive AA that they never found the time to shell my ground-bound allies, giving them a big advantage. A unit that can defend itself without interrupting the fire mission is infinitely preferable to one that must use the big gun to defend itself to me.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #25 on: 27 February 2012, 11:12:57 »
The LRM-10 isn't worth deploying FASCAM missiles on it. The Sniper can deliver a 20-point minefield itself. It can also lay down a cover of smoke before an enemy to cover laying down a few minefields in from of them.

Losing the LRM-10 gives you an extra 6 tons of ammo, making it a lot more effective in my book.

Quite agree with you matey, its primarily an artillery mech so should have a decent ammo supply. 
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #26 on: 27 February 2012, 11:20:08 »
Remember, this 'mech was used by the HAF and SLDF, with all the resources of those armies behind it. Helepolii have a HUGE amount of ammo, it's externally stored in a BFFL, and autoloaded via Loadermech. You keep feeding the guns properly, you could probably keep up a near-constant fire all day.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #27 on: 27 February 2012, 15:22:43 »
Remember, this 'mech was used by the HAF and SLDF, with all the resources of those armies behind it. Helepolii have a HUGE amount of ammo, it's externally stored in a BFFL, and autoloaded via Loadermech. You keep feeding the guns properly, you could probably keep up a near-constant fire all day.
Agreed, and with 20 shots worth of ammo already on the mech, I really don't feel like it's ammo bins are too small. I personally opperate with the set of 10 shot minimum at maximum rate of fire for an engagement, 15 adequate, and anything over 20 is usually overkill. (Some weapons are exceptions. I like having 2 tons for a light guass rifle so I can just fire away at anything without worrying I am wasting ammo)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #28 on: 27 February 2012, 16:34:42 »
I don't think you can be reloaded every 3 minutes, 20 seconds. Besides, if you are using ammo trucks and loaders then why use the mech at all? Can't lug a J-27 up into the broken terrain these mech buggers can hole up in.

8 tons is enough to fulfill their role and make effective use of one or two tons of alternate ammo, such as smoke and FASCAM
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: HEP-*H Helepolis
« Reply #29 on: 28 February 2012, 00:36:48 »
I don't think you can be reloaded every 3 minutes, 20 seconds. Besides, if you are using ammo trucks and loaders then why use the mech at all? Can't lug a J-27 up into the broken terrain these mech buggers can hole up in.

Loadermechs neatly solve that problem.
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