Author Topic: Reunification War Info  (Read 10436 times)

Bad_Syntax

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Reunification War Info
« on: 18 February 2011, 01:24:01 »
Anybody know any other sources for hard data on the Reunification War (2578-2596)?  Best I can find is the SLDF book.

This is what I know canon wise, please feel free to add any links/sources/etc I may have forgotten.

SLDF Overall:
 270 Regiments, organized into brigades of 3 regiments, divisions of 3 brigades, and corps of 3 brigades + support troops.  Since only 8 corps are listed each corp must have around 33 regiments in total.
Over 500 capital warships, I guess that means many more smaller ones? 
A DCMS Auxiliary (unknown size)
12 FWLM Auxiliary Regiments against MoC, another 6 against RWR.
3 LCAF Auxiliary Regiments

Taurian Concordat Front:
SLDF had 1/3/4/6 corps and a "Large" FS auxiliary (at least 20+ warships (which was 75% of total), which the TC took out in 2576 with a loss of only 3)
SLDF Forces included:  88th Light Horse Regiment (Elite), 45th Royal Battle Regiment (Has "Dog-Face" Company of Mechs), FSS Sword's Point, FSS Eagle's Eye
Unknown Taurian Forces

Outworlds Alliance Front:
OA had 120 light mechs, mostly armed agro-mechs (plus 3 elite regiments "Pitcairn Legion from FS)
SLDF 2nd/5th Corps and DCMS Auxiliary (at least a brigade, included Galedon Regulars, 4th Rasalhague Brigade)

Magistracy of Canopus Front:
SLDF 30+ regiments of 7th Corps, plus 12 FWLM Regiments
MoC had over 50 worlds, 17 mech regiments, 12 home guard regiments, and 2 fleets of small ships.  They had no ability to repair any losses.

Rim Worlds Front:
SLDF had 18 regiments of regulars, 6 FWL regiments, and 3 Lyran Regiments (including Lyran 4th Royal Guard)
RWR had few mechs (at least 3 regiments on Apollo), but lots of vehicles.  Forces included 8th Amaris Fusiliers, 4th Amaris Dragoons


Anybody have any obscure data on force names, ship names, force sizes, units present, leaders, etc, etc?  Just a book/page reference is fine, but if you want to type it out that is fine too :)

Just doing a little project to see the feasibility of a board-and-counter strategic game, though 960 turns/weeks may seriously be pushing it as that is how long those battles took historically.
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Guardsman

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #1 on: 18 February 2011, 02:35:54 »
Anybody know any other sources for hard data on the Reunification War (2578-2596)?  Best I can find is the SLDF book.

This is what I know canon wise, please feel free to add any links/sources/etc I may have forgotten.

SLDF Overall:
 270 Regiments, organized into brigades of 3 regiments, divisions of 3 brigades, and corps of 3 brigades + support troops.  Since only 8 corps are listed each corp must have around 33 regiments in total.
Over 500 capital warships, I guess that means many more smaller ones? 
A DCMS Auxiliary (unknown size)
12 FWLM Auxiliary Regiments against MoC, another 6 against RWR.
3 LCAF Auxiliary Regiments

Taurian Concordat Front:
SLDF had 1/3/4/6 corps and a "Large" FS auxiliary (at least 20+ warships (which was 75% of total), which the TC took out in 2576 with a loss of only 3)
SLDF Forces included:  88th Light Horse Regiment (Elite), 45th Royal Battle Regiment (Has "Dog-Face" Company of Mechs), FSS Sword's Point, FSS Eagle's Eye
Unknown Taurian Forces

Outworlds Alliance Front:
OA had 120 light mechs, mostly armed agro-mechs (plus 3 elite regiments "Pitcairn Legion from FS)
SLDF 2nd/5th Corps and DCMS Auxiliary (at least a brigade, included Galedon Regulars, 4th Rasalhague Brigade)

Magistracy of Canopus Front:
SLDF 30+ regiments of 7th Corps, plus 12 FWLM Regiments
MoC had over 50 worlds, 17 mech regiments, 12 home guard regiments, and 2 fleets of small ships.  They had no ability to repair any losses.

Rim Worlds Front:
SLDF had 18 regiments of regulars, 6 FWL regiments, and 3 Lyran Regiments (including Lyran 4th Royal Guard)
RWR had few mechs (at least 3 regiments on Apollo), but lots of vehicles.  Forces included 8th Amaris Fusiliers, 4th Amaris Dragoons


Anybody have any obscure data on force names, ship names, force sizes, units present, leaders, etc, etc?  Just a book/page reference is fine, but if you want to type it out that is fine too :)

Just doing a little project to see the feasibility of a board-and-counter strategic game, though 960 turns/weeks may seriously be pushing it as that is how long those battles took historically.

The Periphery (First Edition) should have a lot of info on the Reunification War as well.
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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #2 on: 18 February 2011, 04:00:52 »
And there's a historical due soon
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Guardsman

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #3 on: 18 February 2011, 04:04:12 »
When do we get Historical: Star League Civil War?
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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #4 on: 18 February 2011, 06:54:24 »
You mean the first SW?

Centurion03

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #5 on: 18 February 2011, 07:05:46 »
I believe Guardsmen is referring to the Amaris Coup.

Technically it was a Civil War, as Amaris took over the
reigns of power from the Camerons.

So Kerensky was a rebel. Kinda.

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #6 on: 18 February 2011, 07:54:13 »
Oh.

Thats certainly one way to see things.

cray

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #7 on: 18 February 2011, 09:34:13 »
Oh.

Thats certainly one way to see things.

JHS:Terra details the Amaris Coup / Star League Civil War in some detail. (Pertinent to this thread: it only glosses over the Reunification War.) Past works like the House Handbooks and Sourcebooks summarized the Amaris Coup as, "Amaris was a bad, bad man! He destroyed the Star League!" JHS:Terra looks at the other side of the coin: what was required for Amaris to fight the largest military in human space when the first thing Kerensky did was conquer Amaris's home land (i.e., the homes of the Rim Worlds troops used in the Coup).
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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Guardsman

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #8 on: 18 February 2011, 14:46:35 »
JHS:Terra details the Amaris Coup / Star League Civil War in some detail. (Pertinent to this thread: it only glosses over the Reunification War.) Past works like the House Handbooks and Sourcebooks summarized the Amaris Coup as, "Amaris was a bad, bad man! He destroyed the Star League!" JHS:Terra looks at the other side of the coin: what was required for Amaris to fight the largest military in human space when the first thing Kerensky did was conquer Amaris's home land (i.e., the homes of the Rim Worlds troops used in the Coup).

Thanks Cray, I'm going to have to have another look at JHS: Terra.
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Maelwys

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #9 on: 18 February 2011, 21:54:22 »
1st Edition Periphery has quite a bit of info on the Reunification War.


Magistracy of Canopus Front:
SLDF 30+ regiments of 7th Corps, plus 12 FWLM Regiments
MoC had over 50 worlds, 17 mech regiments, 12 home guard regiments, and 2 fleets of small ships.  They had no ability to repair any losses.

Not exactly. The MoC had the ability to build its own WarShips and Aerospace fighters. Also, during the fighting, they started building the Wasp, if you can trust the dates given :)

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #10 on: 18 February 2011, 23:07:09 »
JHS:Terra details the Amaris Coup / Star League Civil War in some detail. (Pertinent to this thread: it only glosses over the Reunification War.) Past works like the House Handbooks and Sourcebooks summarized the Amaris Coup as, "Amaris was a bad, bad man! He destroyed the Star League!" JHS:Terra looks at the other side of the coin: what was required for Amaris to fight the largest military in human space when the first thing Kerensky did was conquer Amaris's home land (i.e., the homes of the Rim Worlds troops used in the Coup).

This was something that irked me a little. I know that Battletech is supposed to be a 'Grey' setting, but the one true villian we had is no longer a villian...

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #11 on: 18 February 2011, 23:12:44 »
The lesson learned from the experience of Gregory Amaris was that loyalty to the Star League meant submitting to exploitation, even for those closest to the regime. The Amaris family continued to rage against an empire which used its member states as little more than serfs in a Terran fiefdom.

That's the other side of the coin.
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DarthRads

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #12 on: 19 February 2011, 02:09:29 »
The lesson learned from the experience of Gregory Amaris was that loyalty to the Star League meant submitting to exploitation, even for those closest to the regime. The Amaris family continued to rage against an empire which used its member states as little more than serfs in a Terran fiefdom.

That's the other side of the coin.

Oh, I agree that there are always two sides to a story...but sometimes people really are just evil...

Dread Moores

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #13 on: 19 February 2011, 02:25:09 »
I'm not sure how that changes whether he's evil or not, by presenting another side to the story. Evil is your perception of the character, based on information that you have available. This provided some more information, but the choice on how you view him hasn't been removed from your control.

Rainbow 6

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #14 on: 19 February 2011, 08:18:20 »
Well we now know, after todays battlecorps exclusive release,  the Ameris government in exile were given the Tracker class Krait.

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #15 on: 19 February 2011, 08:25:35 »
Well we now know, after todays battlecorps exclusive release,  the Ameris government in exile were given the Tracker class Krait.

??

The Star League Sourcebook has tons of information on the SLDF's available forces and IIRC where they were based and how badly damaged by the Reunification War

Rainbow 6

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #16 on: 19 February 2011, 08:33:05 »
There a series of small (5 page) pdf's exclusive to Battlecorps memebers, one of the 2 released today is about the RWS Krait a Tracker class vessel defending the Rim Worlds during Kerensky's invasion, it mentions how it was given to the Ameris government in exile during the reunification war.

Solarmech

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #17 on: 19 February 2011, 09:05:45 »
This was something that irked me a little. I know that Battletech is supposed to be a 'Grey' setting, but the one true villian we had is no longer a villian...

I would not say that. Even in JHS: Terra they still say he was a monster. It was just that a lot of people quitly went along with the monster or actaully used Aramis to push their own goals. sm 

FedComGirl

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #18 on: 19 February 2011, 10:05:42 »
According to the Periphery Sourcebook the SLDF had 270 line regiments and 50 capital warships organized into 10 Corps. Each Corps had 3 divisions of 3 brigades of 3 regiments of 3 battalions of 3 companies. It also says that Line regiments are regulars so I would think that Royal and support units aren't counted in that number.

The SLDF fought the Taurians with 4 Corps. The Taurians had had a rough parity with the SLDF in their area in dropships and jumpships but were outnumbered in men and battlemechs. In the fall of 2577 the Taurians destroyed or captured over 2 dozen Davion warships, nearly the whole Davion naval forces committed to the effort, while only 3 of theirs were damaged. in May 2578 SLDF and Taurian ships clashed over Ridgebrook. 4 Taurian and 3 League ships were lost. In Feb. 2580 the SLDF attacked the Pleiades Cluster. 13 Taurian and 15 League ships were destroyed. The largest naval battle consisted of 100 Taurian ships and more than 120 SLDF ships of the line in 2581. The SLDF had previously lost 16 vessels in that year. The largest Mech combat occurred in 2584 and included 3 Taurian regiments and other troops. Only 50 Taurian mechs survived. Over 300 SLDF mechs were drestroyed.


The outworlds alliance had 120 light battlemechs many of which were converted agromechs. At least 2 SLDF Corps attacked along with a brigade of Kuritan troops. 3  Regiments of Davion troops covertly helped the outworlds alliance. Others "took over" other worlds so Kurita troops wouldn't get the planets. In 2582 the Pitcaran Legion (Davion troops) outfitted Alliance troops with 2 regiments of captured battlemechs. In 2583 Outworlds attacked the SLDF troops destroying 200 Battlemechs while losing about half that.

The Canopians had 17 Battlemech regiments plus 12 home guard regiments and two fleets totaling 130 craft. SLDF forces were 30 odd regiments backed by 12 Marik regiments. 

Against the Rim Worlds Republic the SLDF sent 18 regiments and 3 Lyran Regiments. It doesn't say how many troops the Republic had but 3 mech regiments did overrun Archon Viola Steiner-Dineson's troops.

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #19 on: 19 February 2011, 10:14:01 »
Oh, I agree that there are always two sides to a story...but sometimes people really are just evil...

JHS:Terra doesn't make Amaris out to be a nice guy. It does take time to mention his atrocities, overwhelming ego, and agrees he initiated the downfall of the Star League. Whatever he did, JHS:Terra points out that afterward the Hegemony was in a revenge-frenzy of punishing Amaris's lackeys. So, yes, he was unambiguously evil.

What JHS:Terra does is point out that it wasn't a one-man operation, or even just "Amaris and his isolated crew of mercs, thieves and murderers who brutally ruled the Hegemony for 15 years against Kerensky's shining army." There's been a lot left out of the Amaris Coup story by past publications.
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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #20 on: 19 February 2011, 10:31:45 »
I'm not sure how that changes whether he's evil or not, by presenting another side to the story. Evil is your perception of the character, based on information that you have available. This provided some more information, but the choice on how you view him hasn't been removed from your control.

  It does give another view but i looked at the view from Op:Klondike where it talked about throwing disident citizens into caves and sealing them up...sounds pretty evil to me.Thats just one example.
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Bad_Syntax

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #21 on: 19 February 2011, 11:44:25 »
Sure, Amaris conducted war atrocities, most militaries do in war.

Take Japan vs America.  Japan attacked military targets only, America firebombed numerous Japanese cities, leveled many others, and nuked 2 of them, yet since we were the winners we were the "good" guys, but we targeted and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.  Same thing in Europe, though it was a bit more interesting.  A single German bomber crew got lost, and ended up just dropping their bombs on London.  England retaliated and thereafter both sides were devastating cities (though the Germans took far worse than they got), before that accident both sides were bombing military targets only. 

The good guys are whoever wins, regardless of the atrocities they commit.

Back to the topic though, JHS:Terra doesn't mention the reunification war *at all*.  However, the 1st Periphery book was a treasure trove of stats.  I'll finish going through it tonight and post an updated list.  Then I'm back to asking for obscure references in other books so I can build my order of battle.
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cray

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #22 on: 19 February 2011, 14:22:32 »
Amaris was a little more of a douche than the average wartime military. Atrocities and crimes happen in war, but Amaris pushed the envelope.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #23 on: 19 February 2011, 22:14:29 »
I found that the Star League sourcebook has some interesting stuff on the Reunification War, i just not sure if how long it will remain canon.   I haven't read the Handbook: Major Periphery States recently, to brush up on if anything been added or removed.

I'll be glad when Historical: Reunification War comes out so there will be firm background info on what is considered solid canon.
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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #24 on: 20 February 2011, 01:40:18 »
After going through the 1st Periphery Book, the SLDF Book, the Major Periphery Handbook, JHS Terra, I think I've got everything printed.  From now on I have to extrapolate without conflicting with existing canon, and I'm not too worried about conflicting with future canon as the current trend in products seems to indicate to me that TPTB don't care to print the kind of details I need (regimental deployments during time periods, types of regiments, etc).

I'm going to focus on the Taurian Concordat now, which was the largest of the periphery battles.

So I have one more issue, and that is a number I just have nothing to extrapolate from.  That is the number of Heavy Assault, Regular, Horse, and Light Horse regiments within each of the 10 Corps.  Also, how many were Royal?  I know there were 5 striker regiments formed in 2582 into the "11th Corps", along with several elite battalions from other units.  Also what quality were these units, the Star Guard corps was referred to as elite, but that is all I got.

So, anybody care to fill in what they think?

In the 270 SLDF Regiments, how many were:
Heavy Assault Regiments (Heavy Mech battalion, heavy infantry battalion, heavy armor battalion)
Line or Regular Regiments (Medium Mech battalion, infantry battalion, armor battalion)
Horse Regiments (Light Mech battalion, jump infantry battalion, artillery battalion)
Light Horse Regiments (7 Mech Battalions, 1 commando and combat engineer Battalion)

In the 270 SLDF Regiments, how many were:
Elite/Non-Royal
Veteran/Non-Royal
Regular/Non-Royal
Green/Non-Royal
Elite/Royal
Veteran/Royal
Regular/Royal
Green/Royal

I really have very little data on the Taurian forces.  I know of a few mech regiments, which may be all they had.  They had "5 regiments of mech and hover battalions" on New Vandenburg, the most important planet outside of the Hyades cluster, and it appears many other planets only had a couple battalions of infantry, perhaps 9-18 regiments in total for 60 or so worlds.

It is amazing how this war lasted 20 years, absolutely amazing.  There was no HPG, which makes a difference, but there were planets that took *years* to conquer.  I'm thinking of just having insurrections on planets based on their loyalty and population density.  This would mean forces may have to stay on planet for a few years in order to quell an insurrection of an extremely loyal population.  Most planets of the inner sphere can barely get half the loyalty of the periphery planets.  This, combined with issues with supplies, and constantly changing leaders, as well as a few other variables, hopefully can string this whole war out to 20 years.

The map is about 40 hexes wide by 20 hexes tall.  The SLDF went in with about 324 battalions and 200 warships (plus perhaps 50 FS battalions and 50 Warships), the Taurians had about 12 mech battalions and maybe 150 warships, plus another 50 or so infantry battalions, so were outnumbered on the ground by about 6:1.  The Taurians had fortifications on every world, essentially multiplying their defensive abilities by 2 to 6, plus with the guerilla ability of mechs and infantry they can draw out true conquering of planets for many months or perhaps even years.  The SLDF has some reinforcements from the 1st and 2nd Reserve Corps on Terra, and eventually can get the entire elite Star Guard Corps to help out, this would be probably about 40 replacement battalions of green quality and 80 new elite Star Guard battalions that really make the difference.  Flannagan's Nebula also has serious defenses against space attacks, helping keep the SLDF at bay for a few years as they penetrate the defenses.  Probably a total of around 1000 counters.  Historically the game would last about 1000 turns (woah!), but many of those turns could last all of a minute as only 1-2 die rolls may be required.
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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #25 on: 20 February 2011, 02:03:08 »
Sure, Amaris conducted war atrocities, most militaries do in war.

Take Japan vs America.  Japan attacked military targets only, America firebombed numerous Japanese cities, leveled many others, and nuked 2 of them, yet since we were the winners we were the "good" guys, but we targeted and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Umm... you don't see that as an incomplete picture of what Japan did during the second world war? I think there are some Chinese, Koreans, and other south east asians who might want to have words with you.
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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #26 on: 20 February 2011, 02:07:58 »
I think I had some files somewhere that were an attempt to figure some of this out...will have to check...

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #27 on: 20 February 2011, 02:40:45 »
The lesson learned from the experience of Gregory Amaris was that loyalty to the Star League meant submitting to exploitation, even for those closest to the regime. The Amaris family continued to rage against an empire which used its member states as little more than serfs in a Terran fiefdom.

That's the other side of the coin.

This is one way of looking at it, sure. But Stefan Amaris lusted for power, and wiped out anyone with Cameron blood to do it. Simply replacing one tyrant for another because you want power. Of course, the Great Houses are not blameless, because they wanted the same thing. One way or another, the Star League's days were numbered.

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #28 on: 20 February 2011, 05:30:17 »
Quote
Take Japan vs America.  Japan attacked military targets only, America firebombed numerous Japanese cities, leveled many others, and nuked 2 of them, yet since we were the winners we were the "good" guys, but we targeted and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.  Same thing in Europe, though it was a bit more interesting.  A single German bomber crew got lost, and ended up just dropping their bombs on London.  England retaliated and thereafter both sides were devastating cities (though the Germans took far worse than they got), before that accident both sides were bombing military targets only. 

That ignores that fact that there weren't really any civilians in Japan. They would have obeyed orders from their emperor to take up arms and fight any way they could had USA had to invade the main island or that they were preparing to do just that. It also ignores all the civilians the Japanese killed tortured and imprisoned.

The targeting of civilian targets was done in order to get the civilians to force their leaders to end the war. I don't like it but that's why its done. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. As for the nukes. They were the quickest way to end the war. And some Japanese solders still didn't surrender until decades later. If the USA had to invade the main island it would have been a nightmare for everyone. Not only would the war of continued for many more years but the casualties would far exceed those killed in the entire war to that date.





Akalabeth

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #29 on: 21 February 2011, 04:59:30 »
Take Japan vs America.  Japan attacked military targets only, America firebombed numerous Japanese cities, leveled many others, and nuked 2 of them, yet since we were the winners we were the "good" guys, but we targeted and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.  Same thing in Europe, though it was a bit more interesting.  A single German bomber crew got lost, and ended up just dropping their bombs on London.  England retaliated and thereafter both sides were devastating cities (though the Germans took far worse than they got), before that accident both sides were bombing military targets only. 

You ever heard of the Rape of Nanking? If not, you should read up on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_nanking


This was something that irked me a little. I know that Battletech is supposed to be a 'Grey' setting, but the one true villian we had is no longer a villian...

I'm not sure what the material you're referencing is about. But as I understand it, the thing about people who do bad things is that they don't believe they're doing bad things. That's in part what makes them interesting. If Amaris is given motivation above and beyond "I want to be a bad guy" then that's a good thing.

Rather, ideally what should happen is Amaris should say "I think this is the right thing to do, and to this end, the following things are necessary". And then the things he does are considered "evil" or atrocities by the general population.