Author Topic: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?  (Read 15136 times)

Neufeld

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First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« on: 09 August 2012, 16:18:56 »
Was the Victor the first mech that mounted an AC/20?
« Last Edit: 10 August 2012, 04:12:18 by Neufeld »

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #1 on: 09 August 2012, 16:33:56 »
Several other 3025 mechs also sported the AC20.  Notably, the Hunchback, Atlas, and Cyclops.  Which came first is more a matter of Canon, Fiat and RetCon as far as Timeline goes. 

I do not have easy access to my old and possibly outdated TROs and will not commit to making a guess about which came first, chicken or egg.

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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #2 on: 09 August 2012, 16:35:41 »
There's at least one Mackie variant with an AC/20, though whether or not such a mech came about before the Victor carrying the same is anyone's guess.
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #3 on: 09 August 2012, 16:46:16 »
Hunchback: per TR:3025 and 3039, first built in 2572.
Victor: per TR:3025 and 3039, first built in 2510.

Per TR:3075, the Mackie MSK-7 series "covered new factory models from the late 25th century [i.e., 2475+], mostly built around a powerful autocannon and a number of heavy energy weapons."

So the Mackie is probably the first, beating out the Victor by a few decades.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #4 on: 09 August 2012, 19:06:50 »
While the dates don't show it I found a piece of fluff that don't really match up w/ the AC20.


All taken from TRO: 3025

1. 
Quote
The Atlas was the first 'Mech to mount such a large and devastating autocannon. 

Maybe the Atlas had a Super-AC20   ;)


And a little off topic.

2. 
Quote
     The Cyclops' weaponry is mixed so that it can attack or defend itself against any opponent at any range necessary. The Delta Dart LRM pack is capable of engaging the enemy at extreme range. The Zeus-36 Mark III autocannon can be used in the middle ranges. Finally, the two Diverse Optics Type 20 medium lasers with the Hovertec SRM quad can take on anything that gets nearer.

3. 
Quote
       The Pontiac 100 autocannon provides the Victor with medium-range capability ....
     The Victor's left arm sports the mainstay of its close-range weapons, the twin Sorenstein V medium lasers. These lasers are supplemented by the Holly short-range missile rack, intended for close-range fire support. 

Quotes 2 & 3 always made me think that the AC20 was meant to have a longer range than the ML & SRM.  Maybe Base 4 instead of 3?


Mmmm, AC 20 w/ 4-8-12 range,  now that would compete against ML spam a bit more.   ;)
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #5 on: 09 August 2012, 19:09:56 »
Well, I know the Hunchback existed before the Atlas, since the Atlas was ordered by Kerensky and the HBK series already existed at that point and was in widespread usage.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #6 on: 09 August 2012, 19:17:55 »
All taken from TRO: 3025
Well there's your problem, mister.  Yeah, like ColBosch's sig says, FASA was never really big on the whole internal consistency and fact-checking thing.  I'd honestly chuck the old books, especially when they've been superceded with new product (see also TRO 3039)
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #7 on: 09 August 2012, 19:19:32 »
At least some of that was carried over.  I remember his #3 from a recent reading of the Victor entry in '39.
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #8 on: 09 August 2012, 19:20:31 »
Well there's your problem, mister.  Yeah, like ColBosch's sig says, FASA was never really big on the whole internal consistency and fact-checking thing.  I'd honestly chuck the old books, especially when they've been superceded with new product (see also TRO 3039)

/gasp,  and loose my access to out of date & inconsistent historical data.......NEVER.   :D

I love the old girl, warts & all.

But yes, I know the Atlas part doesn't match up,  just pointed out what I found when I went searching for info on the OP question.
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I am Belch II

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #9 on: 09 August 2012, 19:22:05 »
I would say yes. Tech Manual say AC20 came out in 2500, and the Victor was 2510.

Atlas came out much later in 2750's. The King Crab was out before the Atlas.
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #10 on: 10 August 2012, 06:53:23 »
According to the MUL, the first Victor was produced in 2508 (VTR-9A), the first Hunchback in 2572, the first Cyclops in 2710, and the first Atlas in 2755. The first Mackie with an AC20 is the MSK-8B which debuted in 2576. It does look like the Victor may be the first production mech with an AC20.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #11 on: 10 August 2012, 09:14:58 »
Maybe the Atlas had a Super-AC20   ;)
20.1 points of damage, rounded down.   O:-)

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #12 on: 10 August 2012, 10:01:23 »
Maybe the Atlas had a Super-AC20   ;)

Could easily be retconned as being the first to carry an autocannon of such large caliber, rather than of damage capacity.
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #13 on: 10 August 2012, 10:28:31 »
Could easily be retconned as being the first to carry an autocannon of such large caliber, rather than of damage capacity. 

Aye........Only shoots 3 round bursts.........but does so from a 250mm canon !!!

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #14 on: 10 August 2012, 10:41:22 »
Could easily be retconned as being the first to carry an autocannon of such large caliber, rather than of damage capacity.

This.

Since AC damage is divorced from actual caliber, it is possible that the Atlas's AC/20 simply had the largest, most powerful single-round performance of any AC/20 ever built, but fires at a lower cyclic rate.

Aye........Only shoots 3 round bursts.........but does so from a 250mm canon !!!

If I had to guess, I'd say 203mm. The clans have an AC/20 in that caliber and off-hand I can't think of a larger caliber in BT.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #15 on: 10 August 2012, 11:06:06 »
This.

Since AC damage is divorced from actual caliber, it is possible that the Atlas's AC/20 simply had the largest, most powerful single-round performance of any AC/20 ever built, but fires at a lower cyclic rate.

If I had to guess, I'd say 203mm. The clans have an AC/20 in that caliber and off-hand I can't think of a larger caliber in BT.

Going by the fluff art, I'd say the opposite. The Atlas's AC muzzle is TINY compared to either the Cyclops' and the Hunchback's. I'd say the Atlas' AC/20's real feat is firing lots and lots of rounds and still getting most all of them into a very tiny shot group.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is Victor?
« Reply #16 on: 10 August 2012, 16:37:50 »
Going by the fluff art, I'd say the opposite. The Atlas's AC muzzle is TINY compared to either the Cyclops' and the Hunchback's. I'd say the Atlas' AC/20's real feat is firing lots and lots of rounds and still getting most all of them into a very tiny shot group.

Don't forget that 203mm is basically just eight inches; in a 12m tall 'mech, the muzzle is going to be tiny. Put another way; if an Atlas is scaled down to be the same height as a 6' tall man, the bore of a 203mm boomer would be about 1.33 inches (33.8mm).

There is no real reason why the barrels of other units look so HUGE; maybe it's a cooling sleeve or an armour cowl housing a gatling-type mechanism.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #17 on: 10 August 2012, 16:58:41 »
So, what is with the Thunder and it's cannon, anyway?
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #18 on: 10 August 2012, 17:10:20 »
So, what is with the Thunder and it's cannon, anyway?

 The Capellans compensating for something...  ;)
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #19 on: 10 August 2012, 17:10:36 »
So, what is with the Thunder and it's cannon, anyway?

The 55U artwork shows that the barrel itself is quite small, but is surrounded by... a keg. ::)

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #20 on: 10 August 2012, 17:28:56 »
The 55U artwork shows that the barrel itself is quite small, but is surrounded by... a keg. ::)
Isn't most of the size supposed to be the Ammo?

Fireangel

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #21 on: 10 August 2012, 17:38:37 »
Isn't most of the size supposed to be the Ammo?

Could be. Might be some kind of helical magazine for the three tons of ammo.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #22 on: 10 August 2012, 18:10:55 »
So, what is with the Thunder and it's cannon, anyway?
Just a example of when artist crazy with bore size. You have Loose giving the Grizzly a Mega-Man blaster, the Barghest's huge LB-X 20, the Ninja-To's huge Large Lasers, ect.   
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #23 on: 10 August 2012, 18:34:08 »
The Capellans compensating for something...  ;)
For the record, I choose not to go there.
Yes, KF drive vessels, assuming they survive the atmospher[ic reentry] (they take 100 points of damage per hex per turn of velocity in the atmosphere), do tend to use an aggressive lithobraking method for landing.

Fireangel

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #24 on: 10 August 2012, 19:03:46 »
For the record, I choose not to go there.

RECOIL compensator.

Yeah. That'll do.  O:-)

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #25 on: 10 August 2012, 21:19:04 »
RECOIL compensator.

Yeah. That'll do.  O:-)


well, depending on how far off into the land o' fluff you wanna go the CCG branded the Thunder as "the fastest AC/20 in the inner sphere" so i guess it's possible they went all out on getting that cannon be able to pretty much snap-fire.
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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #26 on: 11 August 2012, 02:46:56 »
Yeah, Mul says that the Victor VTR-9A1 is the first 'Mech to carry an AC/20, but the Engineering Vehicle (AC) introduced in 2500 may beat it

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #27 on: 11 August 2012, 07:56:19 »
Yeah, Mul says that the Victor VTR-9A1 is the first 'Mech to carry an AC/20, but the Engineering Vehicle (AC) introduced in 2500 may beat it

In all fairness, the engineering vehicle introduced "back in the day" may well have been packing something else, like a heavy rifle (cannon).

Neufeld

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #28 on: 11 August 2012, 09:25:33 »
Another thing to consider is that the AC/20 is a Lyran invention, the Victor is not.
I am starting to suspect that a non-published Lyran Mackie version might have been the first to mount the gun after all.

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Re: First mech with AC/20 is the Victor?
« Reply #29 on: 11 August 2012, 09:34:54 »
It could be that the Lyrans originally mounted the AC20 on mechs as a refit, while the Victor was the first mech put into production with the AC20 as part of the design.

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