Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank  (Read 6359 times)

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« on: 20 August 2012, 16:44:58 »
Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank

The Condor Heavy Hover Tank is an old design that dates back to 2564, making it slightly older than the Manticore.  One of Red Devil Industries' first designs, it was sold throughout the Succession Wars to any state not currently hostile to the “Steiner Empire” (yes, that's an exact quote from TRO3039) at a hefty premium thanks to the export tariffs.  Given the inevitable hostilities caused by Spheroid astropolitical realities, that means most of them went to Houses Davion and Liao.  Built on Pandora, the cessation of sales to the Capellan Confederation after the Lyran-Suns alliance was problematic for Red Devil.  As executives were investigated for malfeasance, leading to a major hit to the maintenance budget with wear and tear taking a serious toll by 3039.  While many variants emerged over the years, including a post-Invasion model that resembles the Capellan version, had to wait until Quikscell of all companies could begin production on Richvale after Pandora had a little problem with Jade Falcon infestation and coughed up the production rights.  Quikscell's renowned quality control has been up to the challenge of the Condor, with one executive's brainstorm of selling do-it-yourself kits to customers sometimes leaving behind unidentified extra parts behind after the full tank is assembled.

At 50 tons, the Condor is as large as standard hover tanks get.  The 165-rated ICE drives the design at 8/12, matching the Maxim and a bit faster than the most efficient speed for a 50 ton ICE hover.  Six tons of armor are wrapped around the design and arranged 30/15/14/33.  In other words, like you should be doing anyway with a hover, point the front end at the enemy, not the very vulnerable sides.  The turret contains a GM Whirlwind Class 5 autocannon and two medium lasers, while two machine guns are mounted forward.  A half-ton of machine gun ammo is more than sufficient, with a single ton for the Whirlwind.  (TRO3039 includes cargo space; that's incorrect under the current version of the rules and a known problem.  Just delete it.)

Houses Davion and Liao have their own preferred variants to employ in the Succession Wars.  Davion goes for a pair of class 2 autocannons, improving the armor to a 36/22/20/28 arrangement and creating a sniper and harasser, well suited to sniping tactics.  Ammunition is two tons for the autocannons and a full ton for the MGs, doubling the endurance compared to the original.

Liao's variant uses four medium lasers in the turret in place of all the weapons, freeing the design from ammunition worries and including 12 heat sinks to manage the thermal load as well as a half-ton power amplifier.  The armor goes up to 38/23/22/30.  This one is a fast-moving close-range attacker, best used to slash in and overwhelm an enemy in numbers.

A similar variant emerged in the Succession Wars.  The Flamer model has three medium lasers and two machine guns in the turret, with a vehicle flamer fixed forward and aft.  A full ton of ammo for each of the ammo-using weapons gives you substantial MG endurance and roughly normal flamer supplies.  The armor got boosted to the highest yet, 40/25/21/25.  Interestingly, all three of these reverse the emphasis between the forward and turret armor.

In 3060, Red Devil introduced an improved model continuing the basic theme of the laser-armed models,  Four extended-range medium lasers are in the turret along with three SRM 2s fed from a one hundred round magazine.  The armor was also rearranged, now mounted 36/24/16/20.  At 1.5 tons thicker, it's an improvement, at least until someone manages to strip the turret.  Use this one a lot like the Liao variant but you might want to pack some Infernos for various purposes.

Unfortunately, four years later, the Jade Falcons decided they liked the looks of the place and decided to move in.  Aside from having a serious impact on local property values, it also cut off the supply of Condors for a bit until as I mentioned earlier, Quikscell picked up the basic design.  Instead of just putting the classic version back into production, they decided to let their engineers dine on an all-you-can-eat buffet of advanced technology.  Personally, given the relatively minor speed gain, I probably would have stuck with a light fusion engine instead of the CoreTek 215 XL they went for, trading some speed for a lower price tag, but I suspect that the older engine technology was probably easier to come by despite being more expensive in an absolute sense.  The  armor is the same weight as the original but 6 tons of StarSlab/9 ferro-fibrous goes a bit farther than the old standard plate.  On the other hand, an arrangement of 31/21/14/20 is arguably not really better in some ways since it may make you a little more willing to show your flanks, something a hover really doesn't want to do.  The armament retained the machine guns in the same forward position, with a half-ton of ammo that should last you significantly longer than you really want to be employing MGs on this thing anyway.  Hint: If you're doing it for more than a turn at a time because you just happened to find some guys in black pajamas in your way (as opposed to going looking for them deliberately) you're doing it wrong.  The main weapons are a Valiant Arbalest LRM 15  in the turret and a Mydron Excel 5SG LB-X AC fixed forward; each weapon has two tons of ammunition.  That's a significant improvement on the original's ranged firepower and the way the main weapons share the same range brackets (aside from the shorter minimum on the autocannon) does simplify employing it.  Among other things, it's a brutally simple commentary on short range combat: Don't.  Also, keep your front end pointed at the enemy, like you should be doing anyway.

Those of you who were wondering “Hey, where's the energy weapons?” might want to skip the Upgrade and go for the Upgrade Laser Quikscell is also offering.  The autocannon was removed and replaced with a Cyclops ERLL.  The weight savings went into ECM and AMS (the latter in the turret), improving the design's defensive capabilities.

With Condors, the basic rule of combat is simple: Keep moving.  Hovers that slow down willingly usually get tagged and a Condor that lines up a straight line approach can frequently pull off a +4 modifier if there's room; the Upgrade models with their expensive XL engines can jack it up to a +5 and manage a +3 flanking even if it has to burn 2 MP maneuvering without changing hexes..  You want open terrain, too; for you, that includes water, so keep it in mind when you're planning ahead.  The longer-ranged versions want to keep the range open and pepper someone with fire at a distance, using their speed to force a disadvantageous balance of targeting modifiers on the enemy.  The original should regard its lasers as finishing weapons or for employment in high speed dashes past the enemy before you get on the other side and start sniping again.  The short ranged variants should slash in, slam someone with fire, and burn past unless you can manage to guarantee a place in someone's weak arc.

Fighting them employs the usual basics of anti-hover combat.  LB-X autocannons or SB Gauss rifles are your weapons of choice, giving you a higher than usual chance of inflicting motive damage.  Beyond that, long-range weapons will help deal with the snipers, while pulse lasers can keep the close-range bandits off of you.  If you can, go for the sides - a lot of these variants have thin side armor and that's the best angle to inflict motive hits, which make your life tremendously easier.  Maneuver into rough terrain to break up their LOS and force the Condors to slow down, making hitting them easier, and fear death by water - against 'Mechs, rivers may be obstacles.  Against hovers, they're highways straight to your rear arc if you're not paying attention.

References: The Master Unit List tracks the original and upgraded variants separately.  CamoSpecs does the same with the original and upgraded versions of the sculpt.
« Last Edit: 20 August 2012, 16:55:42 by Moonsword »

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40840
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #1 on: 20 August 2012, 16:49:39 »
I thought the LB was front-mounted, with only the missiles in the turret?
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #2 on: 20 August 2012, 16:55:34 »
It is.  I misread the TRO when I was looking at it.

iamfanboy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #3 on: 20 August 2012, 17:16:13 »
The main problem with the Condor is that the Drillson is... better.

Better firepower at long range, better at short range, marginally better armor, stronger main weapon, faster, et cetera.

Oh, the Condor is cheaper (ICE versus fusion), but then, the weight savings are rather eaten up by those two MLs and their heatsinks.

As anyone who read the Drillson thread probably remembers, in a strategic level game I had a company of hovers that was 4 Drillsons, 4 Saladins, and 4 Maxims (with infantry) that was the terror of my opponent. The reason I went with Drillsons instead of Condors wasn't just my rampant AC/5 hate, but that the Condor fit in with neither firing pattern: it wasn't great close-in like the Saladin, and couldn't match the Maxim's long-range firepower. Plus, the Drillson mounts SRM-2s for Inferno goodness.

In other words, Drillson > Condor.


The Upgrade/Laser isn't bad, but it does kinda make the Condor into a Drillson... and that XL Fusion engine on a vehicle does kinda bother me a bit.

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #4 on: 20 August 2012, 17:35:08 »
While you have a point on the comparison between the Condor and Drillson, it's worth remembering that the two didn't compete for sales until 3025, when the Drillson was introduced.  That said, looking at the fluff, I'm wondering if the Drillson wasn't also an influence in the way Condor sales fell after the 4th Succession War by diverting funds from some of the Condor purchases the FS might have made.

I'm not really bothered by an XLFE simply being there.  The fact that this thing doesn't really use it that well and could get a lot of mileage out of the very common 165 SFEs that are used by a lot of hovers?  That's kind of bothering me but I'm more inclined to shrug it off.  When I'm not dealing with it for official purposes, I really don't take the game's frequently odd economics seriously.

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #5 on: 21 August 2012, 04:03:19 »
Are LFE's even made in the rating this thing would use, Moonsword? And really LFE's shouldn't be cheaper then XLFE until much later on then the upgrade was produced

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #6 on: 21 August 2012, 08:41:33 »
Are LFE's even made in the rating this thing would use, Moonsword? And really LFE's shouldn't be cheaper then XLFE until much later on then the upgrade was produced

That's trying to apply real world logic to the construction rules and, ultimately, Fasanomics. By the book, any size and type fusion engine you might want is available (as long as the rating is between 10 and 400, 500 if you want to include large engines, and evenly divisible by 5) and any light engine costs exactly 3/4 of what its XL equivalent would in terms of C-bills. Things like supply and demand don't really enter into it.

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #7 on: 21 August 2012, 11:23:01 »
As I indicated in my response to iamfanboy (which reflects some further and deeper thought on the subject of design changes instead of an off-the-cuff remark), I'd just use an SFE and enjoy my extra tonnage and deal with the speed loss.  And that 165 SFE is quite widely available, so the point's irrelevant.

Ian Sharpe

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2143
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #8 on: 23 August 2012, 21:52:43 »
Hey, whats the record sheet for the Davion variant?  I know HMvee isn't canon, and the fluff indicates more ammo and armour, fitting with the AC/2, but I had always ignored the Davion variant as it had 2 AC/5s and just 20 rounds.  The dual AC/2s on a 8/12 is an ideal harasser for me, esp for militia.

The variant that made me a Condor believer was the Laser upgrade.  Even though it could be 8/12 at no loss of anything(according to HMVee again) its combo of lasers, infernos and regular SRMs was just brutal at times, and since it had to close, it was an excellent Fa Shih transport as well.

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #9 on: 24 August 2012, 11:01:58 »
It's in RS3039 Unabridged.  I didn't math check the sheet, though - I've been busy with MUL work lately.

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #10 on: 25 August 2012, 13:29:16 »
I know HMvee isn't canon
I didn't know that. By the way, how do you know?
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

Ian Sharpe

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2143
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #11 on: 25 August 2012, 13:46:53 »
Basically, if its not from the MUL or a record sheet, not canon.  I don't know where the dual AC/5 w/20 rounds Condor comes from, I never bought record sheets because I have HMvee.  Show me that particular record sheet, and I'll be happy.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #12 on: 25 August 2012, 21:55:35 »
Hmm, HMV says RS 3025/3026 . . .
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #13 on: 26 August 2012, 09:27:15 »
Hmm, HMV says RS 3025/3026 . . .

The correct source at this point is RS3039 Unabridged.

A. Lurker

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #14 on: 26 August 2012, 10:23:10 »
The twin AC/5 version probably originally stems from the fluff in TRO: 3026, where it's mentioned that "House Davion troops usually strip out the lasers, heat sinks, and power amplifiers in order to add another autocannon and more ammo and armor". Note, no mention of an autocannon downgrade from 5 to 2 here.

However, between still using old-style fractional accounting, sporting a third medium laser, and getting the occasional number just plain wrong (like its internal structure being listed as 4 tons rather than 5 in my copy) the 3026 Condor ends up about 4.5 tons overweight. If you take the modern corrected version, you can still free up just about enough tonnage for a second AC/5 by stripping the lasers and their supporting gear, but then there's not much left for extra "ammo and armor", especially since you also need a heavier turret (1.6 tons rounded up to 2 rather than a straight single ton as before).

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6959
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Condor Heavy Hover Tank
« Reply #15 on: 26 August 2012, 13:28:16 »
It's probably intended to be a second AC/5 in the turret from the way it's written, but you could read it as either adding an AC/5 in the front or adding an AC/2 alongside the AC/5 - the second version also leaves a ton (for more armor) and the AC/2 gets 45 shots (more ammo). :)

 

Register