Author Topic: Bon Homme Escort Carrier  (Read 7715 times)

DarthMetool

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Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« on: 01 October 2012, 22:01:53 »
Gentlemen and Ladies, here is the fifth sixth iteration of an escort carrier I decided to design as a challenge.

EDIT: *headdesk, followed by facepalm*  Okay.  13k tons puts it in Template D, which I don't want.  Sorry, I'm a bit stubborn about what I want.  So!  Fixing....

Type: Bon Homme-class Escort Carrier
Chassis Type: Naval Vessel (Large, Template C)
Tonnage: 12,000 tons
Equipment Rating: C/D-F-X/E

Equipment                                                       Mass
Chassis/Control:                                               2652
Engine/Trans:                      ICE                        1620
        Cruise MPs:                   1
        Flank MPs:                    2
Heat Sinks:                           -                              0
Power Amplifiers:                                                  0
Fuel:                                  8438 km                  1367
Turret:                                                                 0
Armor Factor (BAR 5):           634                         40
       Front:                  36                   109
       Front R/L:            36                   105
       Rear R/L:             36                   105
       Rear:                   36                   105
Weapons and Ammo                             Location  Mass
Thumper Artillery Piece                            Front      15
Ammo (Thumper AP) 100                        Body1      5
2 'Mech Mortar/8                                     Front      20
Ammo ('Mech Mortar/8) 40                      Body1     10
3 Machine Guns                                       Front     1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body1     5
2 Heavy Rifles                                       Fore Left   16
2 Heavy Rifles                                      Fore Right  16
Ammo (Heavy Rifle) 90                            Body2     15
3 Machine Guns                                     Fore Left   1.5
3 Machine Guns                                    Fore Right  1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body2      5
2 Heavy Rifles                                       Rear Left   16
2 Heavy Rifles                                      Rear Right  16
Ammo (Heavy Rifle) 90                            Body4     15
3 Machine Guns                                     Rear Left   1.5
3 Machine Guns                                    Rear Right  1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body4       5
Thumper Artillery Piece                             Rear       15
Ammo (Thumper AP) 100                         Body5       5
2 'Mech Mortar/8                                      Rear       20
Ammo ('Mech Mortar/8) 40                       Body5     10
3 Machine Guns                                        Rear       1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body5       5

Crew: 24 officers, 55 enlisted/non-rated, 62 gunners, 54 marines

Cargo
       2700 tons  18 fighter bays
       575.5 tons standard cargo (Body)
       200 tons insulated liquids
          (178 tons aircraft fuel, Body)
       100 tons insulated liquids
          (89 tons potable water, Body)

Notes: Features Tech Rating B chassis, engine and armor, flight deck (2500 tons), lift hoist (3 tons, Right), 3 field kitchens (9 tons), MASH unit (4 theaters, 7.5 tons), 35 lifeboats, 2 infantry bays (10 tons).

Battle Value: 5271
Cost: 15,985,312

Checked that very nicely put together Industrial rules, and a single carrier can be built in about 5 and a half months.  That actually matches historical WW2 build rates for real escort carriers of similar tonnage.  As for capabilities, it is very slow, poorly armored compared to Combat rated naval vessels, and notwithstanding the Thumpers, it is weakly armed for a vessel of it's size.  On the other hand, the Bon Homme's mission is to accompany slow transport convoys so speed isn't really a factor here, armor isn't as much of a factor for a carrier, and the Thumpers and 18 fighters and/or bombers give the Bon Homme the ability to project firepower from beyond the range of most conventional naval assets.

Question?  Comments?
« Last Edit: 02 October 2012, 00:47:49 by DarthMetool »
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boilerman

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #1 on: 02 October 2012, 01:44:02 »
Very interesting design, definitely has the feel of an escort carrier.  Reminds me of the USN Casablanca Class.  Couple of questions, what on the ship forces the tech level to C if the hull and propulsion systems are TL B?  Weapons?  And what are the 'Mech mortars for? Are you using them to simulate hedgehogs?

Nice work.   O0
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #2 on: 02 October 2012, 04:38:51 »
A flank speed of ~13 knots seem rather slow, even for an escort carrier. Looking at the wiki page for CVEs the only ones that slow were the MACs (19 knots for the Casablancas). I really think a speed of 2/3 would match WWII-ear CVEs better, but I have no idea how that will work out for its capabilities.

DarthMetool

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #3 on: 02 October 2012, 07:38:08 »
Couple of questions, what on the ship forces the tech level to C if the hull and propulsion systems are TL B?  And what are the 'Mech mortars for? Are you using them to simulate hedgehogs?

The fighter bays, of course.  Tech Rating C equipment.  As for the Mortars, I wanted something with a bit more range than the Rifles.

A flank speed of ~13 knots seem rather slow, even for an escort carrier. Looking at the wiki page for CVEs the only ones that slow were the MACs (19 knots for the Casablancas). I really think a speed of 2/3 would match WWII-ear CVEs better, but I have no idea how that will work out for its capabilities.

Pulling that kind of performance would force me to drop 6 more fighter bays and 72 tons of cargo capacity.  I didn't want to do that with what is supposed to be a block I design.  Upgrading the engines using Tech C would work to get the 2/3 speed envelope, though I would still have to drop 108 tons off of something that way.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #4 on: 02 October 2012, 16:00:45 »
Now that I think of it... Do you actually need fighter bays when you've got a flight deck? And if you do, do you need full-sized ones if you're only going to operate conventionals (since I doubt anyone would put ASF on a ship like this!)?

Korzon77

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #5 on: 02 October 2012, 19:16:19 »
I thinkt that in this case the fighter bay also includes repair/support facilities so it's not always just on discrete "bay."  (And in general, deck parks can be hard on aircraft).  Of course, Btech abstracts a lot of stuff, and so the deckspotting/hanger storage may be something that you'll need to houserule.

OTH-- this is a GREAT idea for a defense of a world from pirates-- you have ships that are cheap enough you can buy several and spot aerospace fighters on them-- providing in expensive and hard to find platforms. (most pirates aren't going to have heavy duty recon assets). 

Colt Ward

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #6 on: 01 January 2013, 04:01:20 »
What about putting conventional fighters and VTOLs on this thing?  I have not looked too closely at the rules for these constructs.
Colt Ward
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Korzon77

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #7 on: 02 January 2013, 05:35:53 »
What about putting conventional fighters and VTOLs on this thing?  I have not looked too closely at the rules for these constructs.

Conventional fighters are actually a great idea for this-- because it eliminates their great vulnerability, being tied to immobile runways.

DarthMetool

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #8 on: 04 June 2013, 22:43:33 »
And here is an update after errata and all that.

Type: Bon Homme-class Escort Carrier (BLOCK II)
Chassis Type: Naval Vessel (Large, Template C)
Tonnage: 12,000 tons
Equipment Rating: B/D-F-X/E

Equipment                                                       Mass
Chassis/Control:                                               2652
Engine/Trans:                      ICE                        2592
        Cruise MPs:                   2
        Flank MPs:                    3
Heat Sinks:                           -                              0
Power Amplifiers:                                                  0
Fuel:                                  8488 km                  2200
Turret:                                                                 0
Armor Factor:                      634 (BAR 4)              32
       Front:                  36                   109
       Front R/L:            36                   105
       Rear R/L:             36                   105
       Rear:                   36                   105
Weapons and Ammo                             Location  Mass
Thumper Artillery Piece                            Front      15
Ammo (Thumper AP) 100                        Body1      5
2 'Mech Mortar/8                                     Front      20
Ammo ('Mech Mortar/8) 40                      Body1     10
3 Machine Guns                                       Front     1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body1     5
2 Heavy Rifles                                       Fore Left   16
2 Heavy Rifles                                      Fore Right  16
Ammo (Heavy Rifle) 90                            Body2     15
3 Machine Guns                                     Fore Left   1.5
3 Machine Guns                                    Fore Right  1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body2      5
2 Heavy Rifles                                       Rear Left   16
2 Heavy Rifles                                      Rear Right  16
Ammo (Heavy Rifle) 90                            Body4     15
3 Machine Guns                                     Rear Left   1.5
3 Machine Guns                                    Rear Right  1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body4       5
Thumper Artillery Piece                             Rear       15
Ammo (Thumper AP) 100                         Body5       5
2 'Mech Mortar/8                                      Rear       20
Ammo ('Mech Mortar/8) 40                       Body5     10
3 Machine Guns                                        Rear       1.5
Ammo (Machine Gun) 1000                      Body5       5

Crew: 21 officers, 55 enlisted/non-rated, 68 gunners, 54 marines

Cargo
       1200 tons Hanger (Body)
       544.5 tons standard cargo (Body)
       200 tons insulated liquids
          (178 tons aircraft fuel, Body)
       100 tons insulated liquids
          (89 tons potable water, Body)

Notes: Flight deck (1500 tons), lift hoist (3 tons, Right), 3 field kitchens (9 tons), basic fire control (7 tons), MASH unit (4 theaters, 7.5 tons), 35 lifeboats, 100 2nd class quarters (700 tons).

Battle Value: 5579
Cost: 21,446,124

Redesigned this after I looked through the errata for TechManual and Tactical Operations.  Using cargo space as a no-frills hanger bay came from Korzon77's comment and looking at the Cloud Nine design in the TRO: Vehicle Annex.
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truetanker

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #9 on: 05 June 2013, 18:26:45 »
Going to hate me Darth...

After action report:

During a recent WoB raid, the valiant surface defense unit known as Golf Three consisting of the CVE Golf, a Bon Homme, the BB Turtle, a Satsuma-class, and the " triplets ", Huey, Duey and Louey, Butler-class DDEs. Was defending a Colony funded food production island chain. Clan Iron Dolphin has a trade agreement with this facility, but was otherwise unavailable to help defend. The Word's flotilla attacked without warning, using aerospace fighters and underwater vessels as well as twin Bon Hommes as a WoB Satsuma.

Defending the chain, and the transports docked there, Golf Three fought bravely, but ultimately lost. Command demands a better CVE, and they have been answered, Block IIs are rolling of the line as fast as possible with two every three months production.

TT
(  :P O:-) :P )
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #10 on: 05 June 2013, 18:37:54 »
Huey, Duey, and Louey awesome!!
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

DarthMetool

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #11 on: 05 June 2013, 20:44:21 »
LOL!  Did they do any damage at all to WoB forces?
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truetanker

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #12 on: 05 June 2013, 20:52:10 »
Well they did sink a Bon Homme and damaged one of the Mantas when it surfaced... shot down a Level II's worth of ASFs.

But got royaly screwed when the Word's Satsuma opened fire with those Light Gauss at range.

TT

Next Battle is 2 weeks.
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #13 on: 06 June 2013, 00:12:07 »
If a wet carrier is in direct fire weapon's range . . . someone screwed up.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

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RunandFindOut

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #14 on: 06 June 2013, 03:04:02 »
OTH-- this is a GREAT idea for a defense of a world from pirates-- you have ships that are cheap enough you can buy several and spot aerospace fighters on them-- providing in expensive and hard to find platforms. (most pirates aren't going to have heavy duty recon assets).
Just wanted to point out that this is a game abstraction caused by mechanics artificially hindering sensors.  From space, ships in this size range produce easily visible wakes under way.  So an incoming pirate ship should be able to fairly easily see the wakes and pinpoint ship locations and sizes from that.  While they probably aren't going to instantly figure out any one of them is a carrier if it launches anything while a dropship is in orbit and above the horizon it's going to be like sending up a giant CARRIER HERE signal.
One does not just walk into Detroit

She ignored the dragon, and Freddy Mercury who arrived to battle it with the Power of Rock.

DarthMetool

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #15 on: 06 June 2013, 07:50:44 »
Just wanted to point out that this is a game abstraction caused by mechanics artificially hindering sensors.  From space, ships in this size range produce easily visible wakes under way.  So an incoming pirate ship should be able to fairly easily see the wakes and pinpoint ship locations and sizes from that.  While they probably aren't going to instantly figure out any one of them is a carrier if it launches anything while a dropship is in orbit and above the horizon it's going to be like sending up a giant CARRIER HERE signal.

Well, I'd never let you be in charge of MY navy if you are going to give away my ships' positions to the enemy like that.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #16 on: 06 June 2013, 08:54:15 »
Well, I'd never let you be in charge of MY navy if you are going to give away my ships' positions to the enemy like that.
I think his point is that, realistically, the only way to not give away their positions is to not use them at all!

...which makes them kind of pointless. :P

I disagree that it would be impossible to use them, thought. As long as you cruise like any other merchant the only way for an enemy to ID it is to use (good) optics. And as long as you restrict aircraft operations to overcast weather even that should be pretty limited; "20 aircraft attacked us from this area. It might be one of these 30 ships, 5 islands, or possibly a sub carrier".

RunandFindOut

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #17 on: 06 June 2013, 09:29:47 »
I think his point is that, realistically, the only way to not give away their positions is to not use them at all!

...which makes them kind of pointless. :P
Thank you for understanding :P  Not impossible so much as very limited due to having to remain unnoticed.  Enough so that it might not be useful under a lot of circumstances to even have them.
One does not just walk into Detroit

She ignored the dragon, and Freddy Mercury who arrived to battle it with the Power of Rock.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #18 on: 06 June 2013, 10:50:50 »
Thank you for understanding :P  Not impossible so much as very limited due to having to remain unnoticed.  Enough so that it might not be useful under a lot of circumstances to even have them.
I'd say that depends on their mission. But since you probably won't launch at all until an enemy force is touching down I'd say it's workable (assuming we're talking about a pirate force or similar that aren't likely to drop a few dozen scansats before landing or have additional ships in orbit).

The problem is, where do you actually need them? Anyplace that really needs defending probably has enough ground nearby for an airfield, and the CV isn't fast enough to get from one threatened location to the next if the enemy is using dropships. The only advantage is if you have a small number of fighters and really want to keep the enemy guessing as to their location.

CloaknDagger

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #19 on: 06 June 2013, 11:00:49 »
The important question:

Can you make the carrier FLY? Or at least submerge.

There's not much of a point in BT for a ship that can't do either.

DarthMetool

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #20 on: 06 June 2013, 15:35:29 »
The important question:

Can you make the carrier FLY? Or at least submerge.

There's not much of a point in BT for a ship that can't do either.
Quote
Can you make the carrier FLY? Or at least submerge.
Quote
Or at least submerge.
Quote
submerge
Quote
submerge

............hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Sabelkatten

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truetanker

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Re: Bon Homme Escort Carrier
« Reply #22 on: 06 June 2013, 17:40:23 »
And another:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lysander

And another:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wyrm
 ( Helipad so technically a carrier )

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

 

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