BattleChat - 20. X. 2012 (first)

[Kendo]

3250 can't get here soon enough. 20 weapon systems? Yes please. Fewer core designs? Yes please.

[SteelRaven]

The hart sank when I read that the Clan Box was being shelved, I was looking forward to a box of my favorite 3050 mechs but i know the whole thing had to be allot of trouble if TPTB have to brush it to the side after all this time pushing it.

The new box intrigues me, the new beginners rules may be similar to the quick strike type everyone on the board keeps asking copies for.

as for weapons, allot of possibilities so I won't even bother.

One things for sure: Allot more lost tech
   

[I am Belch II]

Thanks for posting this. I always seem to miss the blogs live.

[BirdofPrey]

Anyone got a transcript from the second chat?  I forgot to save the log before I closed the tab.

[Belisarius]

This is awesome. 20 weapons and a new base of designs used across human-occupied space. This is exciting. It'll be like TRO3025 all over again. I just hope we have a good mix of unit types with all the unit types able to influence the battle (infantry, armor, aero, etc).

[ANS Kamas P81]

Twenty new weapons can go a long way if they're variable-purpose like LBX, regular ACs with special munitions, or ATMs.  Variable-power lasers, things like that can go a long way.

And well, I do hope to see omnimechs come back in a bigger way.

[BirdofPrey]

I am hoping for some new omnis as well.  It is disappointing our choices even into the beginning of the Dark ages are crappy first generation omnis or highly faction specific.  These poor-man's-omnis that are mechs with handheld weapons just don't do it for me.

I don't think 20 weapons is too limited.  We didn't have that much variety in 3025 either, but got plenty of designs from that, and there's always room for newer stuff on par with it after that.

[Wrangler]

3250 sounds like its going be complete overhaul of political landscape.   Whatever the IlClan era will be like, i hope its will be fun and playable.

It will be interesting to see what going be like without the normal (what-we-knew) weapons being gone.  I think going be safe to say that everything we knew about the universe by 3250 will be radically changed other than were still in the Inner Sphere.

[Belisarius]

It'll be interesting to see if the new weapons are better balanced than were the weapons originally developed for 3025 and if the designs that employ them come out with the same... character.

[Nerroth]

ilClan I think will be a mix of Wolf and Falcon. Probably lots of subfactions hating eachother to death. An emperor of the Inner Sphere?

So far as a major overhaul goes, I feel that a renewed invasion from the Homeworlds might make for a better catalyst (no pun intended) than having one of the Council of Six Clans reach Terra; the decades of isolation (as it would be by 3145) would give the Adders and company plenty of time to re-build their industrial and logistical base, as well as to develop new technologies in order to better prosecute such a campaign.

Plus, if the Homeworld Clans agree to run the campaign more like KLONDIKE and less like REVIVAL, they may well be in a position to show the Inner Sphere just how dangerous an unfettered Clan war machine can be. (We can already guess that, tactically, the gloves would be off in terms of not bothering with Zellbrigen; the big question can be how well the lessons of Absalom Truscott would be adhered to when it comes to prosecuting such a grand strategic campaign.)


Unless they are to be kept in reserve for some sort of event post-3250; but that seems like an awfully long time before the talking up they got in the Reaving-era material gets picked up on again.


(Perhaps the best clues might be in the upcoming Field Manual: 3145. If it looks like neither the Wolves nor Falcons have the kind of assets needed to batter down whatever may be waiting for them behind the Fortress walls, it might make an outside factor that more likely a culprit for when the time comes to establish the ilClan.)

[Garydee]

Does anybody have a transcript for the second chat? If not, could someone tell us if there was any more good info on 3250?

[Rebel Yell]

<Habeas2>: Spaceman1 - No. A reboot would be going back to 3025 and starting over.

Yes, please.

[Belisarius]

I think Herb is quibbling there. Effectively, 3250, as presented, constitutes a recock of the system (although not the setting). Whole new weapon set, whole new design set, with a marginalization of older systems and designs basically takes all that was done before and sets it on a shelf. It'll be available to play, just like historicals and homogeneous battlemech regiments, but it's no longer the current 'stuff'. While 'technically' not a reboot, there is a similar effect.

[ANS Kamas P81]

It's as much a reboot as the Clan Invasion was, which added things like WarShips, a whole new host of weapons, a huge shift in the power structure, and brand new concepts in technology (battlesuits, omnimechs, etc) that simply didn't exist.  But it was still Battletech, and not a reboot despite the sea-change in the setting.  3250 will be the same, especially (like the 3050 jump) once we get stories and sourcebooks to fill in the timeframe and bring us up to date.

[Belisarius]

Once again, we're splitting hairs here. We're talking more about how we define the word 'reboot' than we are the scale of the change. The implication behind the 20x weapons is as replacement rather than addition which is not at all the same as the Clan Invasion, nor is it similar to any change we've experienced so far in the game. By the same token, Warships existed in 2750 which was released a year before the Clan Invasion products. A reboot does not (in my mind) imply that the production isn't Battletech, but rather that the play system is re-leveled. In 3050, we got some new weapons and some new designs but all of the old was just as pertinent and would be reintroduced and included as new designs in recombination later. The implication of these new weapons is that this list replaces the other in efficacy meaning that we have phased out the old weapons. That's not to say that they can't be reintroduced, but I'm inferring that we're talking about the difference between autocannons and rifled cannon, not the difference between ER PPCs and PPCs.

[nckestrel]

I think Herb is quibbling there. Effectively, 3250, as presented, constitutes a recock of the system (although not the setting). Whole new weapon set, whole new design set, with a marginalization of older systems and designs basically takes all that was done before and sets it on a shelf. It'll be available to play, just like historicals and homogeneous battlemech regiments, but it's no longer the current 'stuff'. While 'technically' not a reboot, there is a similar effect.

No.  Not if 3250 builds on what was there before.
Example?  Omni-mechs.  If the game were reset back to 3025, there wouldn't be any.  Nor Battle Armor. The Clans in their entirety.  The Republic.  The removal of ComStar/Word of Blake as this hovering "all-powerful" malevolent force. Liaos as a competent source of leadership.  Steiner-Davions as.. A source of controversial leadership :).
Moving forward is not the same as going back.
Setting a game in europe in 2017 is not the same as going back to 700. 

[Belisarius]

I said "(although not the setting)" specifically. What we are seeing (I think) is the inverse of the introduction of the primitives. We are transition out of one set of armor and weapons and into a new set. From that point of view, this represents a reboot of game. We're not retrograding to 3025, but we are re-scaling the game from the ground up with new weapons, new armors, a totally new balance. Will infantry be able to damage the new armors? We don't know. Will tanks be effective on the new battlefield? We don't know. This is a reboot of the game as it is played on the table. Not a reboot of the setting. The deciders on the battlefield will not be the Daishi as it was presented in 3050 or the Seraph in 3075. It will be something new with new weapons capable of handily defeating those decrepit relics. Much like rifled cannons have gone the way of the dodo. This does represent a reboot, from a certain point of view, for certain parts of the game. To say otherwise is simply quibbling over the definition of the word. The game is recocking.

[nckestrel]

[snipped my own arguement]
Lets just I find it insulting that you suggested Herb was lying.  "Quibbling".
The fact that that you throw out the setting, throw out battle armor, throw out omnis, throw out anything you don't know about yet because you've only got the barest hints of what it is, and then say "from a certain view" Herb is "quibbling"? 
Hello, Pot!

[Prince of Darkness]

All I know is that the Nova Cats will be the ilClan, what with those invisible Wights now as of XTRO Phantoms.

[Belisarius]

Quibbling is not lying. I have no intention of every saying that Herb was lying and it's rather insulting that you would say so. I haven't thrown out anything. Where do you get that from? I said that the changes amount to a reboot of the game and that his argument against it was, essentially, semantic and based around a particular perspective of the word 'reboot'. A quibble isn't a lie, it's where one takes issue with a small part or component thought of an argument and then use that piece of the argument in contention to negate the argument. His quibble was that the setting isn't being rebooted (meaning that any use of the word 'reboot' is fallacious). The idea that the setting isn't being rebooted is not at issue. The game play changes involved in a reconsolidation of the whole weapon set constitute a reboot of the way the game is played.

My point, which you have not refuted, nor are you attempting to, is that Herb's specific comment was designed to simultaneously provide an answer while satisfying the broadly acceptable policy statement of 'not a reboot'. When, in fact, the statement 'not a reboot' applies from a certain perspective, but not from another. He provided a definitive statement to a question that was inherently nuanced and opinion-based. From his point of view (which is based upon the storyline and not the game function) these changes are not a reboot.

I had no intention, when I posted my commentary, to imply anything negative, nor did I expect to cause that kind of reaction. Apologies if I offended, it was not my intent. I just wanted to point out that Herb's response was a qualified one and not definitive.

[martian]

So no one recorded the second BattleChat? I have been in the cryosleep ...

[BirdofPrey]

It's looking that way.  I forgot to do it myself before closing the tab.

[martian]

It's looking that way.  I forgot to do it myself before closing the tab.

Do you remember anything important?

[BirdofPrey]

Hmm let's see if I can remember some answers.
The next TRO is supposed to contain all the remaining units from MW:DA including the dark ages.  This includes the Ares.
Some current units will be obsolete by 3250 (note I asked if some units would become extinct)
There are going to be some XTROs for other eras.
Herb mentioned he would like a range of terrain types covered in the Hex packs, I don't remember all that he listed but there were at least a half dozen.  Space terrain was vetoed on grounds of aerospace being unpopular.
Aquila will not be seeing other variants since it's too far in the past to be seen as worth it.
A question was asked about further AToW companion books, but Herb said they pretty much put everything in the first Companion.
Response on the latest three books was very positive; they seem to have sold very well already.

I'll see if I can remember more.

[I am Belch II]

I guess my Aerotech dreams are slowly going away.

[Maingunnery]

It's looking that way.  I forgot to do it myself before closing the tab.

I recorded it.......

However sorting will take me some time, there is so much junk, people really tried Herb's patience.

[martian]

Hmm let's see if I can remember some answers.
...
I'll see if I can remember more.

Thanks for your effort.

I recorded it.......

However sorting will take me some time, there is so much junk, people really tried Herb's patience.

Excellent!

[Gaiiten]

One of my favorite things about the setting is the wide diversity of equipment options we currently have. If you ask me, I would rather see MORE new types of technology available, not fewer. This "20 weapons" thing saddens me. The only possible bright side, if you ask me, is that we might finally get away from the pants-on-head-dumb concept of infantry grade weapons damaging mech armor.

I believe these 20 weapons systems might represent the starting level for the new setting. With time going on, there might be a few new introduced.

[Maingunnery]

[3145 - 2013]

<deadborder>: Herb - will TRO3145 be just un-statted so far DA Designs (eg Shrike, Violator) or will there be new ones?
<Habeas2>: Deadborder - TRO 3145 is slated to have all Dark Age units not already covered in classic form to date, essentially all of which we've at least SEEN before.
<deadborder>: Awesomesauce
<BirdofPrey>: including the tripod?
<Habeas2>: (At least where Mechs are concerned; there will be some all-new units in there)
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - Yes, the tripods will be in TRO 3145.

<deadborder>: Habeas2 - How much coverage will there be for the 3130s-era factions? Can we expect to get some idea of their sizes and, in the cases of those left hanging, details on their eventual fates?
<Habeas2>: Habeas2 - Before we move fully into the 3250 setting, we will be settling the affairs of all 3145 factions of consequence.

<mostrojoe>: So no hints for 2013? Nothing really new or interesting you want to throw to us?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - 2013 is basically the year we go through the Dark Age setting. From beginning to end, for all intents and purposes, we will be watching the entire era unfold and reach its conclusion with The IlClan sourcebook.

<Mgun>: For TRO3145 is it likely that we get an ONN section for combat (PWS/CV/Q) variants for current dropships?
<Habeas2>: Mgun - Not too sure, really. I'm not a huge fan of those segments, as they tend to cause tons of design issues.
<Mgun>: That is a shame, I really would like such variants



[3250 - 2014]

<SeeM2>: Habeas2: 1) You said about new miniatures and weapons for 3250 Intro box. I have a question about current miniatures. Are they will be obsolete in 3250 and beyond?
<Habeas2>: SeeM2 - Did I mention new miniatures? I mentioned the new weapons, but nobody asked about minis that I recall.
<SeeM2>: Habeas2: oh, sorry then.

<BirdofPrey>: So I noticed in the earlier chat you mentioned 3250 would have new common designs. Will the old common designs become extinct and be replaced with these new common designs
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - By 3250 the models you see today as "common" will likely be fairly obsolete.

<John_Hawk>: Herb, is there any truth to the rumor that each successor state in 3250 will be ruled by a different former Canopian cat girl?
<Habeas2>: John_Hawk - No truth at all. Well, except for that ONE state...

<jimdigriz>: As we move toward 3250, what kinds of trends would you like to see in terms of political and technological development?
<Habeas2>: Jimdigriz - I see dynamic trends that work toward a synergizing of collective efforts to produce favorable results for both manufacturers and commercial prospectives, as well as the consumers.

<SeeM2>: Habeas2: 4) Do you plan a little more premiums in 3250 intro?
<Habeas2>: SeeM2 - I'm sorry; I don't understand that question.
<SeeM2>: Habeas2: I mean more Loki/Thor style miniatures in new intro box.
<Habeas2>: SeeM2 - I can't talk about the miniatures at this time. Sorry.

<Trboturtle>: Is 3250 going to be more new technology, or older technology with more refinement?
<Habeas2>: Trboturtle - Hard to say whether one would call the tech in 3250 "all new" or "evolved from what came before". I'll leave it to the fans to decide when they see it.

<Weirdo>: Another question, but I'm not sure if anyone asked it before I arrived: Is there any news or tidbits you could give the folks that are fans of Quickstrike?
<Habeas2>: Weirdo - You guys might like 2014.

<mostrojoe>: What can you tell us about 2014?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - By 2014, we will be in fully uncharted territory.

<Nerroth>: In role-playing terms, would the kind of technical evolution planned for 3250 be reflected in AToW terms? or to put it another way, would the 3250 sourcebooks be enough to support 3250 RPG play; or could there be an opportunity to set a proper AToW supplement in this new era?
<Habeas2>: Nerroth - The era will get its own Era Report, which means it will get its own RPG addendum



[IO]


<ScrapYardArmory>: how far away are the first Interstellar Operations beta docs?
<Habeas2>: ScrapYardArmory - I wish I could say.

<mostrojoe>: What's the actual situation for IO? Will be definitively split in two books?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - It is uncertain if any material from IO will be split off to another book or not. Of course, at this stage, it is uncertain if IO will ever see the light of day, so...
<ScrapYardArmory>: You said "it is uncertain if IO will ever see the light of day" when about two weeks ago Randal tweeted that beta docs would soon release. Has IO taken a turn for the worst?
<Habeas2>: ScrapYardArmory - IO has been underway for 3 YEARS now. Forgive me for poking fun at this fact.

<mostrojoe>: do you think we are going to know something new about IO? very soon?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Only if you measure things in geological terms.




[other]


<Mikecj>: Herb- have you been pleased by the reactions to the 3 new PDF's?
<Habeas2>: Mikecj - The three new PDFs all made it into DriveThru RPG's top 20 downloads on the day of their release, so I'm fairly pleased, yes.


<mostrojoe>: The "linking scenarios" chapter starting at page 47 of StratOps is broken and unplayable. Is there any possibility to ever see a totally new and improved version in future?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - "Create a campaign" Book? Like, what, a role-playing game? Who'd pay for one of those?


<BirdofPrey>: speaking of hexpacks are there plans to sell the promotional tiles seperate or are you out of stock? I was poor when the toehr hex packs came on preorder
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - Last I checked, we ran out of the promo tiles.
<BirdofPrey>: I figured as much :,(


<SeeM2>: Habeas2: 2) There will be fan-made support for classic eras and active community for a looong time after a reset. Is there a chance that CGL will provide half-, on even more official support for fans work with storyline, 'Mech sheets, campaigns, etc? I'm saying about pdfs on official CGL site, or maybe one last printed stuff "by fans for fans"?
<Habeas2>: SeeM2 - For legal reasons we cannot provide any backup for "fan-made projects" of any kind. We will continue to publish Historicals and periodical material set in bygone eras, but we cannot, for example, provide RS support for fan-made 'Mech and vehicle designs.


<cStrick>: i recall seeing somewhere that weapons & other tech advances where going to 'stop' being introduced. will this hold true for these future TROs?
<Habeas2>: cStrick - At least for a time, yes. The tech race has been a bit too crazy for us.


<mostrojoe>: Is there the tendence to stay with the warchest system or with a more detailed system like the one seen in StartOps?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - he warchest system is likely to stay in place for quite some time to come, as it has proven failrly popular.
<mostrojoe>: talking about the mantainance and repair chapter
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - More detailed systems are available for more expert players, but we understand that some people don't have time or resources for detailed accounting of operations.


<Mgun>: Are you thinking of a new unified and simplified construction system for all units above 100 tons?
<Habeas2>: Mgun - Yes. We'll simply outlaw them.
<Habeas2>: Mgun - More seriously, it's something that needs to be discussed further.


<SeeM2>: Habeas2: 3) Are there any plans for a card game? Does CGL have a license for Battletech card games? I'm not saying about old ccg (although it wasn't so bad), just any BT card game.
<Habeas2>: SeeM2 - No card game.


<BirdofPrey>: so you mentioned lack of computer aids are slowing down record sheets. I know a lot of us are waiting for RS 3067 and prototypes. Has CGL researched hiring a small programer team to make some construction programs for internal use (and possibly sale to fans who own the rule books)?
<BirdofPrey>: I know kickstarter is all the rage these days
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - I cannot answer that.


<cStrick>: do you think there will come a day when we recall the Jihad as fondly as we dol
<cStrick>: as we recall water raids?
<deadborder>: Water Raids! Way to make a guy feel old
<Habeas2>: cStrick - I'm already there


<BirdofPrey>: ok ok last (intentional) question from me: A lot of TROs have had a historicals section detailing Age of Wafr and Star league Designs. Is it possible future TROs will contain historical sections closer to the present (ie. inserting some new stuff into the sucession wars or clan invasion)?
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - You mean like making up some Succession Wars version of the Penetrator? Remember that after 3050, many of the TROs were discussing units that just debuted recently, so they wouldn't have "older variants". This is also why you saw a shortage of Notable Pilots and Battle Histories.
<BirdofPrey>: well i was mainly thinking we could use some WiGEs and advanced/experimental units inserted into earlier time periods. could be said to have recently been declassified
<Suralin>: BirdOfPrey - Or maybe units that were wiped out during the Succession Wars.
<Suralin>: or Amaris coup
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - Meh, maybe, but after all this time, I think we tapped out the bulk of any new units from the Succession Wars period. Continuity can be a harsh mistress, you know.
<BirdofPrey>: or yes that. basically new units, not just older versions of stuff weve seen in other tros
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - There will be a Succession Wars era miniseries of the XTRs in the future. Maybe some stuff will show up there.
<BirdofPrey>: nice


<Weirdo>: I have but one question(at the moment): How likely are we to see armed variants of the Aquila JumpShip, to represent the upgunned merchantmen used by various early Houses, Periphery navies, and pirates?
<Habeas2>: Weirdo - Slim to none. Those vessels are so far in BattleTech's past that they represent a time period we simply have no interest in exploring.


<BirdofPrey>: i still think we need some more WiGEs inserted into each era. how can a unit type that has existed for centuries only have a handful of examples. That's worse than the IS omni shhortage i harp on
<Weirdo>: The fluff of the ship says they exist, and I'd love to see details.
<jimdigriz>: I'd like to see the upgunned Aquilla stats as well.


<mostrojoe>: Do you think CGL will publish some products in limited or collectors edition verion only? Something that you think is not going to have a wide market but that will be bought by hardcore fans anyway: starmaps, postermaps, niche books or everything else
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - We don't really like to do the "limited collector's edition" thing. It only comes up occasionally in the form of first run core books like TW and AToW.


<Damage>: how about hex-pack asteroids and black holes? for those of us that play with warships.
<Habeas2>: Damage - You are going to find this very hard to hear, I reckon: The aerospace crowd in BT is simply NOT strong enough to justify a hex pack at this time.
<mostrojoe>: are there plans, even remote, for some new expansion about the "space" side of the game?
<Habeas2>: Mostorjoe - No


<mostrojoe>: do you think that things like official quirk lists, potential limited revisions of the game will be possible in 2013? Or the agenda is too tight yet?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - The plan we're toying with at present is to add Quirks to the MUL listings for units
<mostrojoe>: ... but the quirks in the MUL is something you think can happen in 2013?
<Habeas2>: Mostrojoe - Not sure. It would be a pretty big job for volunteers
<Trboturtle2>: I think the MUL crew is enjoying a long rest in Arkham....


<BirdofPrey>: are there any actually planned hex packs for the future or do you just come up with them as needed?
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - The next Hex Pack is generally skecthed out as soon as the latest one goes up. So, we're only discussing which one comes next at this point.


<Nerroth>: In a prior BattleChat, you mentioned that there was a new line of products you had been considering; one which might be able to cover more subjects like AToW stats for the Tetatae (which would otherwise have no place to go.) is there anything about this line that could be discussed at this point, or is it still too far off to be given any proper detail?
<Habeas2>: Nerroth - There are actually two potential PDF-exclusive lines I am toying with that could qualify. The tentative titles for the series are Misjumps and PseudoTech.


<SeeM2>: I wouldn't mind winter board and hexpacks, frozen rivers and lakes. Yeah, I can always image that everything is frozen to death, but it stays green on the board.
<BirdofPrey>: oh yeah like that idea: hex packs dealing with TO level environments. Hmm any hope of seeing something like that?
<Habeas2>: SeeM2/BirdofPrey - Not really. The general notion is that any terrain can be frozen, wet, windswept, exposed to vaccum, or glassed over, so making different maps for different environmental conditions would be gouging the consumer.


<Mikecj>: Are we going to see another Time of War expansion book?
<Habeas2>: Mikecj - Um, that's a good question. We want to avoid venue-driven sourcebooks, since they only appeal to a limited audience, but the goal of Companion was to cover the advanced rules not already dealt with by the core AToW book. This left us pretty much nothing for a second, generic companion. I mean, factional/era stuff appears now in all Era DIgests/Reports as it is


<Nerroth>: How much scope for detail would there be for worlds like Kaetetôã in such a work? for example, could a colour (or black-and-white) map of that planet (and/or the Far Country moon) be a feature in such a file?
<Habeas2>: Nerroth - It's anyone's guess.
<Nerroth>: In any case, I'd definitely look forward to anything more about that corner of the universe you may get around to at some point. Thank you.


<Trboturtle2>: Are tehre plans for new mapsheets?
<Habeas2>: Trboturtle2 - If you mean the plain paper ones, we keep trying to discuss those, but they are rather costly to make and don't sell strongly enough to justify continued production.


<Weirdo>: Absolutely loved XTRO: Phantoms. Any chance we'll ever see the Purifier: Police mentioned in it?
<Habeas2>: Weirdo - No idea


<BirdofPrey>: would it be pissible to see different tech levels in infantry equipment? los tech from the star league and new 3250 stuff?
<BirdofPrey>: *possible
<Habeas2>: BirdofPrey - Meh. At this time? No.

[martian]

Good job, Maingunnery.

I have two things in my mind (well, more than two, but these two are CBT related):

1. Will TRO: 3145 include only new 'Mechs from the Dark Age era (such es Neanderthal or Ursa) or will it include modified current modern 'Mechs (such as EMP-6M2 Emperor or modernized Hercules mentioned in FM: 3085 or AMSC 'Mechs refitted with Imperator products)?

2. When Herb said that in 3250 today's common 'Mechs will be obsolete and replaced, did he think Unseens or Project Phoenix 'Mechs?