Author Topic: Super HPG's and Clarion Call  (Read 15899 times)

Dread Moores

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #30 on: 12 April 2011, 16:36:25 »
Is anybody forgetting the ending of 'Surrender your Dreams'?

No, I'm not. It wasn't actually specified as a Republic flag flying on the planet. That makes it a bit more interesting.

Solarmech

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #31 on: 12 April 2011, 16:46:30 »
No, I'm not. It wasn't actually specified as a Republic flag flying on the planet. That makes it a bit more interesting.

Good point. It was stated it was a new flag not seen twenty years before. If the RotS had taken over it would have been their flag up there. Maybe a new flag for a new FWL? sm

Centurion03

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #32 on: 13 April 2011, 03:46:39 »
Yes... They do mention a new flag, one which hasn't been seen before.

But they also mention that one of the main character's sons would have made a great
Knight or even Paladin.

Which makes it sound that those positions are now defunct.

Solarmech

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #33 on: 13 April 2011, 05:55:41 »
Yes... They do mention a new flag, one which hasn't been seen before.

But they also mention that one of the main character's sons would have made a great
Knight or even Paladin.

Which makes it sound that those positions are now defunct.

Yeah. I always got the feeling that the current Axarch(sp) was doing a huge reshuffiling of how the RotS was organized while the Wall was up. Which is really not a new thing. The US Constitution was created years after the country got free of the British Empire. The Articles of Confederation the US originally ran under where a huge mess. Kinda like how the RotS was before the Black Out. sm

Stormlion1

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #34 on: 13 April 2011, 09:14:46 »
Possibly with the Senate dissolved the entire Knights Errant/Knights/Paladins had no counterbalance and there was a restructuring of the old power structure. Possibly something that bears more of a resemblance to what one of the other Successor States uses.
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Niopsian

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #35 on: 13 April 2011, 09:19:18 »
I like to think they took the time to become a full on space democracy, but I'm a starry eyed idealist.

Wait. No I'm not. :-\


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Nanaki

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #36 on: 13 April 2011, 10:07:14 »
Possibly with the Senate dissolved the entire Knights Errant/Knights/Paladins had no counterbalance and there was a restructuring of the old power structure. Possibly something that bears more of a resemblance to what one of the other Successor States uses.

Assuming nobody overthrew the Exarch and dismantled the Republic.

Solarmech

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #37 on: 13 April 2011, 14:35:06 »
Assuming nobody overthrew the Exarch and dismantled the Republic.

Considering that the (former) Exarch was still alive and clearly highly respected I rather doubt it. sm

Kamov

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #38 on: 13 April 2011, 19:02:15 »
Clan Wolf moved to the Free Worlds League for a reason that I still cannot discern.  Clan Jade Falcon worships a blatantly insane anime villain.  The Lyran Commonalliance loves the idea of having Clans on both borders.  Sexual abuse and incest are the new "it" things for rulers to have as traits.  Devlin Stone is Devlin Stone.

I'd say all bets are off on assumptions of Dark Age personalities and their behavior.
(The above writing is entirely my opinion based upon my own incomplete knowledge of life, the universe, and everything beyond it and should be taken as such although I don't want to tell you what to do, because that's your right and your freedom to choose your own opinions and ablah blah blah legalese etc etc)

Stormlion1

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #39 on: 13 April 2011, 20:31:20 »
 [stupid]
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Nanaki

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #40 on: 13 April 2011, 20:50:02 »
Clan Wolf moved to the Free Worlds League for a reason that I still cannot discern. 

They actually moved to the Steiner side of the Steiner-FWL boarder, the Steiner Archon thought that she could use the Wolves in her ambitions to annex the Free Worlds League. Somewhere along the way both sides turned on eachother, and the Wolves managed to annex a good chunk of the Lyran gains in the FWL.

The reasons for this? Well, their original position in the Inner Sphere was lousy. Their worlds were, if Touring the Stars is accurate, economically worthless crapholes. They were surrounded by hostile clans, so expanding is out of the picture for them, and the Steiner Archon was offering free passage.

Out of all the things in the Dark Ages, that is actually one of the few things that -do- make sense.

Niopsian

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #41 on: 13 April 2011, 22:16:40 »
They actually moved to the Steiner side of the Steiner-FWL boarder, the Steiner Archon thought that she could use the Wolves in her ambitions to annex the Free Worlds League. Somewhere along the way both sides turned on eachother, and the Wolves managed to annex a good chunk of the Lyran gains in the FWL.

The reasons for this? Well, their original position in the Inner Sphere was lousy. Their worlds were, if Touring the Stars is accurate, economically worthless crapholes. They were surrounded by hostile clans, so expanding is out of the picture for them, and the Steiner Archon was offering free passage.

Out of all the things in the Dark Ages, that is actually one of the few things that -do- make sense.

You see the seeds of it as early as the mid 3070s. The Wolves' general crap attitude towards logistics is mentioned in several of the 'Mech writeups in TROs 3075 and 3085. And I'm sure the scouring of Tamar and the cutoff from the homeworlds didn't help things at all.


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Solarmech

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #42 on: 14 April 2011, 03:25:59 »
They actually moved to the Steiner side of the Steiner-FWL boarder, the Steiner Archon thought that she could use the Wolves in her ambitions to annex the Free Worlds League.

No, she wanted to prevent the FWL from reforming and being a threat to the LC. Of course her actions CAUSED the FWL to start reforming. It was a HUGE screw up on her part and she later admited she should have listened to those around her not to take the action. But her intensions where not to increses her own power/territory. sm

Nanaki

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #43 on: 14 April 2011, 07:54:12 »
No, she wanted to prevent the FWL from reforming and being a threat to the LC. Of course her actions CAUSED the FWL to start reforming. It was a HUGE screw up on her part and she later admited she should have listened to those around her not to take the action. But her intensions where not to increses her own power/territory. sm

No matter what she intended in her invasion of the Free Worlds League, her actions made it abundantly clear that she wanted to grab as much land from the Free Worlds League as possible.

Nibs

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #44 on: 15 April 2011, 00:49:57 »
How many worlds did the Lyrans grab from the Leaguers in the invasion?

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #45 on: 15 April 2011, 06:45:43 »
A lot.  Check the maps from the MWDA books on Oystein's site...
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Nanaki

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #46 on: 15 April 2011, 06:51:23 »
A lot.  Check the maps from the MWDA books on Oystein's site...

However, the Archon lost all of her gains and then some when the Wolf-Steiner relationship went sour, now the Wolves hold all that territory.

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #47 on: 15 April 2011, 07:04:39 »
I'm not sure if the Lyrans wouldhave lost all their gains - they took a large chunk of Tamarind-Abbey, and from the text of Bonfire of Worlds I got the impression the Wolf Empire was a bit more central.  That said, I'm sure any gains left over from FWL territory have been made up for in Lyran worlds lost to the Wolves
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Solarmech

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #48 on: 15 April 2011, 07:08:49 »
No matter what she intended in her invasion of the Free Worlds League, her actions made it abundantly clear that she wanted to grab as much land from the Free Worlds League as possible.

Thats was the measn to the end. Not a goal unto itself. sm

Daemion

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #49 on: 15 April 2011, 14:57:54 »
No matter what she intended in her invasion of the Free Worlds League, her actions made it abundantly clear that she wanted to grab as much land from the Free Worlds League as possible.

That's not what I read in the novels. Are you sure we're reading the same books? They didn't want to take as many worlds as possible. Maybe the guys in charge of the invasion did (Ahem... Duke Whassisname...) but that wasn't how it was supposed to play out.

As for the Wolves, I'm only current up to To Ride the Chimera, so I don't understand how relations went sour. The helped take worlds for the Lyrans, and they kept what they killed, essentially. They said as much during the negotiations.

 

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Nanaki

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #50 on: 15 April 2011, 15:23:12 »
Quote
That's not what I read in the novels. Are you sure we're reading the same books? They didn't want to take as many worlds as possible. Maybe the guys in charge of the invasion did (Ahem... Duke Whassisname...) but that wasn't how it was supposed to play out.

Except that is exactly how it played out.

I happen to subscribe to the beleif that a Faction's actions speak louder than their words, and their actions were to annex as many worlds as possible until the Free Worlds League could repel them. Regardless of what the statemen say in public, and even private, when they are annexing large tracts of territory, they are grabbing land.
« Last Edit: 15 April 2011, 15:32:45 by Nanaki »

Decoy

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #51 on: 15 April 2011, 15:29:50 »
I'm not sure if the Lyrans wouldhave lost all their gains - they took a large chunk of Tamarind-Abbey, and from the text of Bonfire of Worlds I got the impression the Wolf Empire was a bit more central.  That said, I'm sure any gains left over from FWL territory have been made up for in Lyran worlds lost to the Wolves

The thing is, can the Lyrans hold it? I would imagine the FWL would keep the borders of the Wolf empire in mind and use this as an opportunity to push back the Lyrans.  The Lyrans seem to be busy working up defenses against the Falcons and the Wolves.

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #52 on: 15 April 2011, 15:50:17 »
Yeah, that reamains to be seen.  That said, I wonder if the FWL has the willpower or the firepower to go after their lost worlds. 
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Nanaki

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #53 on: 15 April 2011, 16:21:30 »
Yeah, that reamains to be seen.  That said, I wonder if the FWL has the willpower or the firepower to go after their lost worlds.

Very likely. Tamarind-Abbey would definatly want their worlds back, and it is likely the Lyrans have likely stripped the border to fight against the Falcons and Wolves, and Jessica Marik's Free Worlds League is still young and fragile, they need as many military victories as they can get.

The only damper on that is Regulus. Cameron-Jones is pissed, and he is likely going to do everything in his power to destroy the new Free Worlds League, and thus Jessica Marik has to delicately balance her forces to attack the Lyrans while withstanding any attack from Cameron-Jones.
« Last Edit: 15 April 2011, 16:23:46 by Nanaki »

Ruger

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #54 on: 15 April 2011, 18:00:57 »
The thing is, can the Lyrans hold it? I would imagine the FWL would keep the borders of the Wolf empire in mind and use this as an opportunity to push back the Lyrans.  The Lyrans seem to be busy working up defenses against the Falcons and the Wolves.

Well, the 3144 map at the end of A Bonfire of Worlds (at least the Kindle version) kind of gives some hints as to what happens...

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Decoy

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Re: Super HPG's and Clarion Call
« Reply #55 on: 15 April 2011, 21:26:10 »
I only have the BC version of Bonfire =\

 

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