Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa  (Read 5692 times)

Moonsword

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'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« on: 06 January 2013, 11:25:13 »
'Mech of the Week: MN-* Sarissa

The Sarissa is part of the generation of primitive BattleMechs that's been introduced in the last few years, although the story is a little more complicated than usual since we don't actually have the stats for the original primitive variant yet.  Instead, the Sarissa was introduced in XTRO: Marik as a stopgap measure of desperation by the Regulans.  (You know, the guys who took over the Word's role as the foremost proponents of nuclear bombardment as a problem solving technique now that they've used it to solve the problem of the Word of Blake's continued existence.  Those Regulans.)  The original model was built by Corean Enterprises on Stewart during the Age of War.  The name has a bit of interesting history attached, too: Sarissas are a type of long spear invented by Philip II of Macedon, and after he trained his phalanxes in their use, they went on to dominate Greece and Thrace, providing the springboard for his legendary son Alexander the Great.    Durable and reliable but without an especially impressive armament, the original Sarissa eventually faded from history.  This time around, Corean opted to partner with General Motors to use the IndustrialMech plant on Futuna, adapted for producing primitive-grade military hardware.  Although the new MN1-D Sarissa prototypes are technically Jihad-era units, the project started in 3080, over a year after Terra was seized from the Word of Blake.  A few prototypes were running around by mid-November of that year according to the Irian Technologies report that's the in-universe framing device for the XTRO.  The MN1-D was only in production for a very short period before Corean withdrew it; officially this was an economic measure focused on reconstruction but the reality according to the Republic's Department of Military Intelligence in TRO: Prototypes is that the design simply wasn't popular with the Marik militias, a problem that XTRO: Marik touched on.  The MN2-A is something of a compromise, a modern, armed IndustrialMech derived from the original primitive BatteMech.  A minor variant that reduces the cooling for more armor isn't being marketed but Corean is “quietly offering advice” on how to carry out the conversion.

We don't have stats for the original MN1-K, so I'll start with the MN1-D and describe what we know so far afterward.  The MN1-D, like the original, is built off of a primitive BattleMech frame.  At 50 tons, it's in the upper half of the medium category, and the 240-rated primitive fusion engine is powerful enough to give it a flank speed to pace later designs like the Hunchback, Enforcer, or Centurion.  (No, that's not a typo - primitives use a rating 20% higher than an equivalent modern engine.)  At the time, that made the Sarissa a little faster than your typical heavy and allowed it to keep up with the early Icarus on the ground.  14 single heat sinks run hot when you use your main armament, reminding me a little of the PNT-10K but with a much better excuse considering the technology Corean and GM were working with.  The design's single greatest weakness is the mere 10 tons of primitive armor.  10 tons doesn't sound that bad - the Hunchback's gotten by for centuries with 10 tons of armor going exactly the same speed - but the primitive part shows with only 107 points, one of the Regulan militias' sticking points on the design, since primitive armor only gets 2/3 as many points per ton as standard plate.  What's there isn't badly distributed, though.  Each forward torso has 15 points, the limbs pack 10, and there's a 4/5/4 spread on the back plates.  Given the limitations they had to work with, that represents a solid compromise, and it's really not that much worse than the armor on your typical Trebuchet.  The point of all of this is to keep the guns firing, though, and there, the Sarissa scores pretty solidly.  The right arm has a powerful new blazer cannon, a laser powerful enough to blow the cockpit right off a 'Mech and a weapon the Regulans experimented with all the way back in the 3040s on the MAD-4X.  The left arm mounts a mere medium laser, the workhorse of the Inner Sphere, and the center torso has a small laser and a machine gun fed from a half-ton of ammo to suppress unarmored opponents, including rioters.  The MN1-K's armament is described as having a large laser and several mediums backing it up and lacking the machine gun.

The MN2-A is very similar overall.  Being built off of an IndustrialMech skeleton means the frame is actually heavier but a modern 200-rated engine from GM is three tons lighter.  The cockpit's lighter but the need to include an ejection seat leaves you with only 1.5 tons of weight saved.  A lighter gyro thanks to using a smaller engine also scrunches up a little tonnage.  Okay, fine by me.  The ringer in here is the fact that Corean chose to use heavy industrial armor - functionally identical to combat-grade standard plate - and saved 3.5 tons in the bargain by removing three points of armor.  The redistribution bumped the rear to 5/6/5 while the front torso is now 12/16/12.  I think I'm with the militia pilots when they're a little leery of the decision to use those four tons on more heat sinks.  Yeah, sure, cooling it off is nice.  As TRO: Prototypes points out, this isn't anything anyone used to Succession Wars hardware doesn't know how to deal with.  Exactly how much armor gets piled on by the armored variant Corean is supporting is still unknown.  Personally, I'd be happy with 8.5 tons - matching the CN9-A Centurion - but since we don't have an RS: Prototypes Unabridged yet, it's going to be a while until we know what the final decision was.

Overall, I've been fairly impressed.  Yeah, the armor's no great shakes, but especially on the MN1-D, it's workable.  And these aren't front-line units, either, just support and militia fighters.  Considering the limitations the designers accepted, they certainly could have done worse even if we all probably have our own ideas on how to make them better.  Historically, the sarissa wasn't a solitary weapon.  Philip II and Alexander the Great screened their phalanxes with supporting elements and used the weapons en masse.  You should follow their example.  Think of them sort of like bipedal Bulldogs or Goblins.  Sarissas benefit from being used in groups, where the weight of fire can bear an enemy down before their armor fails, and the provision of flankers and long range shooters to keep the enemy honest will help, even if they're “just” vehicles.

Unlike the last armed IndustrialMech I covered in here, Sarissas deserve to be treated with a little respect even by their modern BattleMech cousins.  They're a little myopic by modern standards, maybe, but while I might be willing to dismiss an Arbiter as mostly harmless under normal conditions, a lone Sarissa actually isn't that far behind a CN9-A Centurion or ENF-4R Enforcer for straight-up firepower.  The MN1-K wasn't too shabby, either, considering the limitations of the technology it was built from.  Fortunately, their armor is more suitable for a 'Mech 15 tons lighter, so punching one out isn't a huge problem.  If you can, stay out of range, or at least at 11 hexes or more to keep from straying into medium range on the blazer.  It might not be quite as good as a heavy PPC for a lot of things but 12 points delivered in one clump hurts.

References: Because of the vagaries of the MUL's naming system, the BattleMech and IndustrialMech branches of the family are listed separately.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #1 on: 06 January 2013, 14:14:21 »
If the Regulans are as hard up for mechs as they are supposed to be . . . I am not sure why they would not have been taking these, at least to bulk out their mech units.  If nothing else, something like this should make a great trainer unit for forming academy & militia cadres.  With what you said though I am not sure how bad it would be for them to form a supporting role for the more advanced designs which would form the core of any strikes.
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Moonsword

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #2 on: 06 January 2013, 14:17:11 »
They are taking them.  They didn't accept the MN1-D but did start purchasing the MN2-A.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #3 on: 06 January 2013, 14:57:13 »
Sorry, sounded to me like they were not taking many and even then the assigned warriors were complaining.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #4 on: 06 January 2013, 17:52:47 »
No mention of the weapons Moonsword? For shame.

I think the problem with this 'Mech in it's modern form is the use of a Binary Laser Cannon, that things a heat hog and neither version is equitable with DHS's, do the former FWL member states still have trouble getting their hands on PPC's?

On the mention of nuclear warfare it's interesting that the classic go-to guys for nukes in BT, the Taurians, never engaged seem to have engaged in wholesale nuclear warfare the way the WoB or the Regulans have. In fact they have only, to my knoweldge, used them as sources very large conventional munitions

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #5 on: 06 January 2013, 18:27:31 »
(I admit beforehand to a bias against this design, entirely because it's generic nature was reflected in too many of my homebrewed designs and now i'm redrawing all of them in new makeups. feh  #P)

the Sarissa is a very bland 'mech in every aspect. its weapons design is bland, its base performance is bland, its history is bland. this was probably intentional, and that blandness extends perfectly well into its appearance.

the 'mech as a whole is very hard to separate out into details because...well, it's a big homogenous design with very little standing out. the cockpit design looks a bit poor to me, if only because the mechwarrior's seat is either mounted a little too far back or behind far too little armor but i suppose that's not uncommon in battlemechs. the limbs are effective, they're there and they look to have good mobility. the guns are clearly visible, though they don't stand out too much. there's nothing striking about the armor placement, either as an interesting visual hook or visible design flaw.

my main complaint aside from the blandness is the belly gun. normally i like torso-mounted weapons, but this one is on a turret that seems to sit too far into the already narrow waist. i really can't see this thing being able to hold itself up very well as a result, not with all the feeds that have to be passed through that space to supply power, command/data I/O to the 'mechs main computer controls, coolant feeds and whatever else.

in the end, it fills out space in the catalog of 'mech designs. just like it must on the battlefield and everywhere else. simply, somewhat disappointingly, and bland. good luck, Sarissa. hope you have a long life in the militias of the game.
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Moonsword

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #6 on: 06 January 2013, 18:45:23 »
No mention of the weapons Moonsword? For shame.

Go back and read the end of the second paragraph again, please.

I think the problem with this 'Mech in it's modern form is the use of a Binary Laser Cannon, that things a heat hog and neither version is equitable with DHS's, do the former FWL member states still have trouble getting their hands on PPC's?

Between the number of PPCs of various types that have turned up on Marik designs since, oh, TRO3055 and the text that specifies that it's not an issue anymore under Thomas Marik, not really, although purely local supply issues may exist since none of the Marik breakaways have access to the full League's resources.

However, blazers can be built from supply chains that can't supply you with PPC components, either because of technical complexity or simply because you're dealing with spare capacity in your laser manufacturers.  They're not that difficult to build if you've got the ability to build large lasers.  It may not be the most efficient weapon but it's got a decent range and a good bit of punch, not as bad a choice for a 'Mech with cooling capacity to at least mitigate using it.  On a militia unit - which is all the Sarissa is - this really isn't a bad weapon because it gives the Sarissa the ability to project enough power to threaten modern units.  It also preserves the Regulans' stock of the more advanced, powerful, and capable heavy particle cannon for use on front-line equipment and is a nod to the MAD-4X, as I noted in that part of the article you didn't read.

Now, I'll admit that there are more efficient ways to give the Sarissa the ability to threaten big, scary, modern 'Mechs.  However, one of the goals of the XTROs was to help bring advanced and experimental equipment into the game in a bigger way, something TRO: Prototypes continued even as it pushed refined versions of various designs into production.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #7 on: 06 January 2013, 18:47:17 »
I tend to think of the Sarissa like a very much more dangerous Bulldog or Vedette.  It's expendable at its core, and its primitive nature means that it's easy to throw large numbers of them at player characters for campaigns that don't like conventional vehicles.  It's the fodder 'Mech of the Dark Ages.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #8 on: 06 January 2013, 19:26:03 »
A Vedette, maybe.  They, the Scorpion, and the Arbiter are your basic ankle-biter cannon fodder.

Bulldogs are closer to an even match with Sarissas thanks to the SRMs and extra machine gun, although they lack the concentrated punch and the inherent toughness of being a 'Mech.  The crit-seeking makes them a decent low rent thing to bulk out a militia formation that already has Sarissas in it, actually.  They're still cannon fodder but it's a higher, more useful grade of it in my opinion.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #9 on: 20 February 2013, 21:47:55 »
the Sarissa is a very bland 'mech in every aspect. its weapons design is bland, its base performance is bland, its history is bland. this was probably intentional, and that blandness extends perfectly well into its appearance.

Yep. I'm a believer that many successful real world war machines are bland. They don't have clever styling (deliberately), they have an array of weapons and armor much like their contemporaries (how many modern MBTs have a ~120mm main gun and few MGs?), and they get the job done. If they get labeled "cool looking," then that's a fringe benefit, not a deliberate feature.

Real engineers don't spend a lot of time trying to make military vehicles look kewl, or really have unique weapons to make them stand out from contemporaries. They try to make vehicles that match or exceed the capabilities of their opponents, while meeting a whole host of conflicting design goals like cost, mobility, cost, protection, cost, firepower, cost, range, cost, using available weaponry, and cost. I find it to be no wonder that military aircraft are called "a flock of compromises flying in close formation."

The Sarissa came out of that mindset. It was an early attempt at a BattleMech when BattleMechs were little-known, little-understood threats. It had to be cheap and simple for militias. It didn't have a vast, post-3050 array of weapons to select from. It wasn't created when there were dozens of medium, 4/6 'Mechs to compare it against.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #10 on: 20 February 2013, 22:59:21 »
It also looks very strongly like it would be a reasonable design.  Bland again, but it's the equivalent of an M4 Sherman.  Basic, moderately effective, and easily produced (relatively).  And visually, it LOOKS like a piece of military hardware; I could totally see it in either Army green or Air Force grey.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #11 on: 21 February 2013, 01:09:11 »
+1 for loving the look and design of the Sarissa.  It is not fancy or flashy, instead focusing on getting the job done.  Using two hands gives it some non-combat versatility as well.  My only complaint about the MN1-D is that it can not fire its main gun without overheating.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #12 on: 21 February 2013, 05:56:48 »
I did not find the full stats of the MN2-A, (its not in XTRO:Marik) so I cannot comment on that.

In regards to the MN1-D, I have got to say, I am unhappy with it. I fully understand that it is a second-line Mech (at best) and you cannot expect much. Furtehrmore, although I have no statistics, my impression is, that in the post-Jihad era we Regulans should be happy with anything that has two/four legs and shoots. I am not a fan of the Blazer, or the heat management either, but I do not really mind.

Still, as a guideline, if you are already desperatedly looking to find replacement Mechs, then you better look for something that can be used more than once.

It doesn´t have the reach or the speed to be a skirmisher. The pathetic armour practically means that you will have to find yet another replacement Mech as soon as a Sarissa gets in a serious firefight with something as threatening as a Succession Wars medium or heavy tank. I wouldn´t dare to tangle with a Manticore for instance. For cowing some civilian troublemakers you do not need a Mech. A few APCs and a company of infantry would do a better job.

There is a silver lining on the horizon though. As far as I know it is the first regulan Mech not build on Wallis. (Funny though, that Futuna and Wallis are two rather fameless islands in the Pacific situated next to each other, just like the planets) Diversifying production capacities is generally a smart move. And we can hope that the Futuna manufacturing lines will spit out something more impressive in the future.

Should that ray of hope prove illusory, well, there is still plan B.
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« Last Edit: 21 February 2013, 06:19:45 by Molossian Dog IIC »

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #13 on: 21 February 2013, 12:26:39 »
The MN-2A is in TRO Prototypes, something I mentioned in the first paragraph when covering the design's history.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #14 on: 21 February 2013, 13:59:36 »
My bad. I thought the mention of TRO Prototypes refered only to the MN1-D.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #15 on: 22 February 2013, 15:16:05 »
Never heard of the design before, and really like it from the looks of it.
It's simple, it makes sense, it's quirky for being all about costs and still carrying an eclectic weapons payload...
Something I would probably design to the specifications.
Well, aside taking a buster and replacing the cargo loads with rocket launchers, of course.^^
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #16 on: 22 February 2013, 18:31:46 »
Anyone else think the Sarissa would be better served if it had another machine gun instead of that small laser?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #17 on: 22 February 2013, 18:58:34 »
No mention of the weapons Moonsword? For shame.

I think the problem with this 'Mech in it's modern form is the use of a Binary Laser Cannon, that things a heat hog and neither version is equitable with DHS's, do the former FWL member states still have trouble getting their hands on PPC's?

On the mention of nuclear warfare it's interesting that the classic go-to guys for nukes in BT, the Taurians, never engaged seem to have engaged in wholesale nuclear warfare the way the WoB or the Regulans have. In fact they have only, to my knoweldge, used them as sources very large conventional munitions

I do believe they were thrown around quite frequently in their conflict with Hansen.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: MN* Sarissa
« Reply #18 on: 22 February 2013, 19:26:16 »
I've used the Sarissa once or twice on the tabletop and it's a really good machine, punches above its weight very well.  It'll never be a star 'mech, but its low speed and armour means a lot of players will ignore it.  At least until you get a couple of binary laser hits in at least :D
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