Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha  (Read 14509 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« on: 10 May 2013, 11:49:20 »
’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha

Gurkha. Elite commandos, legendary for their loyalty and knife-fighting skills. Skills so important that each was issued their own blade to maintain with honor. Namesake for a 35-ton BattleMech produced by the Word of Blake.

And very dangerous in bunches.

Just after being promoted to Precentor Martial, Cameron St. Jamais ordered that a new light or medium BattleMech be designed to put more (if not the rest) of the assembly lines of the Krupp Armament Works into use. The design he chose became the Gurkha, and was received well by the Militia for patriotic reasons.

Entering service in 3063, the GUR-2G is built around an endo-steel skeleton and uses a 245-rated Magna extralight engine, giving the design similar ground speed to the venerable Jenner. It does not, however, have that design’s jump capability. Seven and a half tons of standard plate give the design maximum armor protection, mounted in a 9, 15/7, 11/5, 12, 16 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs). Weaponry consists of an extended-range particle cannon in the right torso, backed by a quartet of extended-model small lasers in the left arm. Ten double heat sinks struggle with the heat-load when in close-range combat. The design also mounts an improved C3 computer in the center torso. Rounding out the design is a sword in the right hand. This sword is useful for three reasons beyond its melee capability. First, it allows for the Word of Blake to have a design where any melee-minded light pilots can serve. Second, the sword breeds the idea of getting in-close, which helps with the spotting for the other five guys in the C3 network (the old repartee between a Scarabus and Gurkha pilot fits here). Finally, there is a psychological component. The sword looked similar enough to the broadsword on the Word of Blake logo to engender patriotism. It didn’t hurt that each dress uniform came with a sword as well.

The first variant, the GUR-4G arrived in 3065. This variant did the easy swap of the particle cannon for a large pulse laser, helping with the up-close mentality. The next variant, designation GUR-6G showed up in 3067. The particle cannon was replaced with an extended-model large laser. An extended-model medium was placed in each side torso. A half-ton of armor and a small laser were removed to install an additional heat sink. The armor removed translates into one point off each front location, save the head.

The final variant, the GUR-8G entered service in 3069. The particle cannon is now a Snub-Nose version. One small is now mounted in the head. The remaining small lasers were swapped for extended-model mediums. A small cockpit was also used. Triple-strength myomer was installed. Finally the sword was swapped for a retractable blade. This last move confuses me. First, the totemic value of the sword is lost. Second, the sword is more effective than a retractable blade in all but one scenario. Third, and finally, the retractable blade actually weighs more than a comparable sword.

To note that one scenario: Under advanced rules, if you land a punch with that arm, you can instantly say you are extending the blade and inflict a critical check. You stand a risk (10+) of breaking the blade off, though. This action is most effective if you hit someone in the head. And, of course, if that crit check allows you to skewer the enemy pilot.

Using one of these machines can be simple. Just remember that you are not meant to fight alone. While you do have a bevy of close-in weaponry, most notably the sword, you are not meant to suicide yourself. Frankly, the sword (or retractable shiv) is more of an afterthought, to be used if you get into melee against your will. The real key is your choice of partners. While the enemy Scarabus is trying to deal with you with his lasers and hatchet, you have five other guys backing you up. Considering the original Tech Readout entry mentions that Vanquishers were assigned alongside the Gurkha, this can include a lot of devastating firepower. And that’s before you consider that you could have a place in a Shadow Division. Celestials are things you want on your side.

Fighting one is less clear cut. Primarily for having to worry about his back-up. There is one thing that is key, however. Jam him. While the comparison between the Scarabus and Gurkha in the adage is funny, it does miss one significant detail: If the Scarabus is close enough to use his hatchet, the Gurkha is inside an ECM bubble. Considering the Gurkha’s primary role seems to be spotter for his friends, turning off his spotting capability is key. Using quick designs to keep him in that bubble is a must. Just make sure to do it with priorities in mind. Try not to get those quick units killed by getting too close to other problems, and do not all target the little guy unless you can afford to. By afford to, I mean his buddies don’t have good numbers to you, or more importantly, you can hit the Gurkha a lot easier than you can hit his buddies.

The Gurkha’s future is at best murky. First, the Krupp plants did get hit hard during the retaking of Terra by Stone and company. Second, even if the Germany plant survived, Krupp probably pissed off Stone by filing a lawsuit. With the massive demilitarization that came later, one has to consider if Krupp got to be one of the first on the list. Third, and perhaps most important, the Gurkha was an iconic Word of Blake design. Those seem to be on the short list of things most powers hate. More so, as it carried the totem for the Blakists. Unless someone outsourced to one of the hidden Blakist bases that may or may not still be out there, it is likely not in production.

I do, however, hope it has continued in service somewhere. And if not, that perhaps they are sitting hidden away waiting as a latter-day LostTech cache for someone to find and put back into service/production. After all, if the Jenner can somehow survive starting Kentares…

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #1 on: 10 May 2013, 12:58:04 »
I've always enjoyed this guy and quite a few years ago was one of my go lights for Word of Blake formations.  If I was using the ERPPC version, I tended to use other like-minded designs that combine speed with decent long range punch.  Members of this force take turns racing in for medium to maybe short range spotting while the rest of the unit falls back, holds ground, or races figure eights out at long range (ERPPC Hussars are fun for this, and I also used the C3i-less Lightray as backup.)  Might also include one nasty like a Vanquisher or Legacy for static defense.  This was pre-Celestial and pre-TW tech like snubbies and what not, but the forces tended to fair well enough.  Lots of combined ERPPC and UAC-10 fire to wear down opponents while trying to stay out of reach.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #2 on: 10 May 2013, 13:43:37 »
The final variant, the GUR-8G entered service in 3069. The particle cannon is now a Snub-Nose version. One small is now mounted in the head. The remaining small lasers were swapped for extended-model mediums. A small cockpit was also used. Triple-strength myomer was installed. Finally the sword was swapped for a retractable blade. This last move confuses me. First, the totemic value of the sword is lost. Second, the sword is more effective than a retractable blade in all but one scenario. Third, and finally, the retractable blade actually weighs more than a comparable sword.

My bet is that this is intended to be issued to the Shadow Divisions. The small cockpit and retractable blade matches up with the Celestial series nicely, and the up-close nature of all of the weapons suits the Shadows' role as shock troops quite nicely. I want to run this alongside some Malaks, with a Preta or two for ranged support.

(Heck, given the resemblance between this Gurkha's performance and the Malak's, I wouldn't be surprised if it is most often issued to M-D light pilots that are just shy of the qualifications needed to be given a Malak of their own.)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #3 on: 10 May 2013, 15:09:23 »
I've alerted the guy who designed the 8G to this thread, hoping he'll be able to chime in soon. His justifications for the changes to the design were pretty interesting actually- Weirdo's Malak comparison is pretty much spot-on actually.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #4 on: 10 May 2013, 15:47:45 »
Weirdo's Malak comparison is pretty much spot-on actually.

It is?! :o

You guys gotta step up your game. I'm right FAR too often these days...
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garhkal

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #5 on: 10 May 2013, 16:52:02 »
Any idea why they went with a quartet of ER smalls vice a pair of regular or ER mediums as back up for the ERPPC?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #6 on: 10 May 2013, 16:59:39 »
Better total firepower at very close ranges, which is where the Gurkha is designed to fight. (Hint for Gurkha combat: If the PPC is the only gun you can hit with, you're outside your comfort zone, and should rectify that.) Against other lights or the rear armor of larger targets, every point of damage is dangerous. Against big things that have holes in them(either because of your PPC or your buddies), four smaller guns are preferable to two larger ones for crit-seeking purposes. Also good for finishing off battlesuits that have also taken a couple of hits from heavier guns while you were closing. Same goes for generating motive crits on tanks. Finally, while any true antipersonnel weapon would be superior against conventional troops, four 1-point hits from small lasers is definitely better than 2 1-point hits from medium lasers, or even a single 1-point hit from the PPC.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #7 on: 10 May 2013, 18:04:36 »
The Master Unit list dubs this little beauty "extinct" post Jihad.
Surely some would have survived - and what would people's perceptions being of a warrior driving this obviously Blakist machine in the 3080s?
Fear? Suspicion? Or just justifiable salvage?


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #8 on: 10 May 2013, 18:28:34 »
The Gurkha has always been a solid design for the WoB when I've used it. With the ERPPC version I gain the ability to dance at the outskirts of an ECM field and still be at short range with my ERPPC and provide targeting data for those in the rest of the Level II. If there's no ECM I can slip in and use the weapons to the fullest. The LPL version is even more accurate at extremely close ranges, letting you hit and destroy fast moving light units/ECM carriers.

The only thing missing from the two original variants is TSM. I can't really think of a reason for their exclusion. Sadly, this seems to fit the pattern with FP/CGL. "Give them a unit with a melee weapon, but don't make it too good." Until the Seraph Invictus, I don't believe ANY WoB designed unit had a melee weapon and TSM. Later on we get the odd Banshee and now a new Gurkha variant. Gurkha with its Sword? Buccaneer with its Hatchet? No need for TSM there. Instead, lets stuff it on the Raijin (not that I'm necessarily knocking the Raijin with its TSM, but I mean, come on really? The Gurkha just screams for it).

I haven't gotten a chance to use the new designs.

The 6G is nice looking. It manages to keep that solid short range punch while increasing the longer range punch (and it does this without really giving anything up, other than the short-range bracket of the PPC). When you're dancing around at 7-10 hexes you're not limited to a single all or nothing shot with the PPC/LPL, you get several shots with the ERLL and ERMLs. More shots, more chances to hit. Of course, it still screams out for TSM.

Sadly, it takes until the 4th variant for the Gurkha to get the TSM its needed since it was originally designed. Unfortunately, it loses the sword, "gaining" instead a retractable blade. I completely get the MD/Malak comparison.  Heck, if I were piloting a 8G and someone came up and said "We've got a Malak for you now" I might consider keeping the Gurkha.

Its just...finally the Gurkha gets the TSM its needed...only to lose the sword. I know the Retractable Blade is a "similar" weapon, but I'd rather keep the increased damage, and better chance to-hit with the lighter sword (I know the Retractable Blade has the same -2 to hit as the sword, but if you use the advanced rules from TacOps you lose that bonus), than the "fluffy, but maligned" retractable Blade.

I'm not saying the 8G is bad. I'd probably use it in place of the Malak. Just...give the 2G, 4G and 6G the TSM they deserve.

(and yes, I know the 4G would be hard pressed to actually activate the TSM. I'll either wait for an engine hit or deactivate heatsinks!)

The Master Unit list dubs this little beauty "extinct" post Jihad.
Surely some would have survived - and what would people's perceptions being of a warrior driving this obviously Blakist machine in the 3080s?
Fear? Suspicion? Or just justifiable salvage?

It depends. The Celestials are hated alot. As an early WoB design, I'm sure lots of Gurkhas were made and so were very obviously and visibly "WoB" (as compared to say, the Osprey which was put back into production late in the Jihad, IIRC). So they're probably going to look at you with lots and lots of distrust. Not as much as if you were in a Celestial, but considering the sword and fluff of the Gurkha, I wouldn't be surprised if they're almost as disliked.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #9 on: 10 May 2013, 19:21:46 »
I've got an nifty idea here for a non WOB variant: replace the C3i with a standard C3 slave and GECM. Short range spotter and counter network platform.

It would also benefit from having TSM, but that's any Melee 'Mech.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #10 on: 10 May 2013, 20:15:54 »
I annoyed the crap out of one of my friends with a Gurkha. He made the mistake of leaving 2 heavies too close to each other and I got in behind one of them. Used the C3i to spot for the Toyama and Vanquisher on one of the heavies, put all 4 ER smalls and the sword into the other's back, and the ER PPC against his light fast mover that was trying to flank the Vanquisher. If we awarded "Stars of the Game" like hockey the Gurkha would have earned one that turn for 2 kills and an assist.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #11 on: 10 May 2013, 22:49:29 »
My gaming group loves the Gurkha.  First game it was ever used in it claimed the most spectacular kill, and everybody has loved it since.

Ran behind a Bushwacker, hit with sword, punches in LT rear, stabs ammo.  BOOM.  It was AWESOME.

Great spotter from c3i units, decent speed and firepower, it really is a fantastic light 'Mech.  The only real issue is a lack of jump jets.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #12 on: 11 May 2013, 01:50:24 »
It is?! :o

You guys gotta step up your game. I'm right FAR too often these days...

As the guy who designed the 8G variant, the answer is YEP!!!!

When I pitched this variant to the powers that be, I specifically stated that the variant was created as a "precursor to or supplement to the Malak."

Before I go on, I know a lot of people generally poo-poo the retractable blade under the normal rules, but lets be (somewhat) fair here. Who in their right mind would use regular rules when the advanced version of the rules are waaaaay more awesomer (Yes. I used awesomer. Also, don't bring up you can't use the waaaay awesomer rules in Tournament Play. I know that...)? That is one of the things I had in mind when I was designing this variant.

Also before I go on, I realize that what I am about to say isn't always going to happen over the cousre of a scenario, and that no one's battle plan survives contact with the enemy. I get that. But these were some of my thoughts in creating the 8G

My idea of the use of the TSM was two fold:
1. The extra physical damage caused;
2. (More importantly) That extra movement point you get when you are heated up that could make the difference between being in an enemy's side arc or rear arc.

The 8G can normally do 4 points of damage punching, but with the TSM heated up,  the potential goes up to 7 points of damage. On the punch table. That's right, its a 35 tonner with a right hook that any mech twice its mass would admire. As far as I know, that sort of damage to a rear location would make even the heaviest battlemechs sit up and take notice.  Now take the retractable blade and use the waaaay awesomer rules. Let's say you land a TSM enhanced retractable blade strike on a rear torso location that has less 7 points of armor. If I am correct, that is two critical hit chances - one for going internal, the other the automatic critical chance for the waaaay awesomer retractable blade rule.

If I were using the 8G in combat, I would likely use it against a mech that couldn't outrun or outjump me. I would wait to use the Alpha strike until I was at medium to short range, then use the additional speed burst to get behind that target and make his/her life miserable.

This is probably just me, but you could use it in a variety of ways. Oblviously you could use it as the "bully" mech of a Light Level II. However, I would also seriously consider putting this in a heavier formation as it could hang out or on the edge of the battle, then race in and create havoc in the enemy's formation as the battle is joined.


(Also I'm sorry if this not coherent - I'm tired...)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #13 on: 11 May 2013, 05:00:21 »
TSM use has always been a bit spotty, despite the fact that technically any 'Mech with the requisite free critical slots could install it without suffering for it in the slightest. I think there may be two reasons for this:

1.) Cost. Not necessarily so much in terms of C-bills (although going potentially from 200,000 to 1.6 million myomer base cost on a 100-tonner would be a bit of a jump), but with BV counting TSM as always on and drawback-free the same design's point value inevitably jumps up after the upgrade no matter how useful it actually turns out to be in practice.

2.) The Cult of the Magic 9. Basically, the idea that a TSM 'Mech should be running at exactly 9 heat all the time for optimal performance (unless it doesn't need the myomers, in which case it should of course run cooler) does seem to have become kind of entrenched and pushed the realization that the same 'Mech doesn't automatically and immediately suck just for sometimes hitting, say, heat 10 instead somewhat into the background.

Take the two together and you get an argument along the lines of "a 'Mech should either be optimized to hit and then stay at 9 heat at will or else not bother with TSM at all because it won't be worth the extra BV". Which obviously makes zero sense in universe, where nobody's heard of this whole "BV" thing in the first place and would be justified in laughing us out of the room for suggesting that they should try to make their fights more "balanced" instead of making their 'Mechs as good and bringing as many of them to overwhelm the opposition with to the party as they possibly can...

But in any case, since TSM never seems to have truly replaced standard myomers on any sort of large scale in canon, I don't horribly mind seeing melee designs that don't have it. Heck, I have trouble remembering it even exists myself often enough. :D

The Gurkha itself I don't really remember seeing in combat before, and I'm pretty sure I've never used it myself yet either. Pretty much all the variants do look rather solid for their job, though (the top end of the light class is rarely a bad place to be, anyway), and so if I ever do encounter one of them I hope I'll at least remember in time to be appropriately worried -- enemy 'Mechs managing to consistently stick close to my side or rear have been a bit of an occasional bane of my existence before (partly because MegaMek's Princess bot is sometimes a little overly fond of that tactic), and this one looks more troublesome in that respect than many.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #14 on: 11 May 2013, 05:18:00 »
How about this idea, a pack of Gurkha's to swarm and mug a hostile mech.  Getting two or three of them jumping you in close quarters would probably be a terminal encounter for you.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #15 on: 11 May 2013, 10:45:24 »
I've got an nifty idea here for a non WOB variant: replace the C3i with a standard C3 slave and GECM. Short range spotter and counter network platform.

It would also benefit from having TSM, but that's any Melee 'Mech.

If one is allowed to use ECCM then that would be a great variant.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #16 on: 11 May 2013, 16:59:26 »
I've got an nifty idea here for a non WOB variant: replace the C3i with a standard C3 slave and GECM. Short range spotter and counter network platform.

It would also benefit from having TSM, but that's any Melee 'Mech.

I suspect any that did manage to survive the transition to the Republic may have had that refit done.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #17 on: 11 May 2013, 17:38:24 »
My thoughts on the TSM is that it wears out more quickly, is more difficult to replace, maybe more difficult to produce... at least as reasons they haven't been mass-engineered into every mech since 3052. Why the FC never started using Proto-TSM on mechs meant for the Clanner meat-grinder... I've not quite come up with a rationale for that yet.  :-\

I always saw the erSL's as crit-finding capacity. Being a spotter with a PPC you're likely to have the mechs in front of you suffering a lot of big holes... Gauss, PPC, etc. Thing is it is one of the few designs I felt deserved SPL treatment. Switch to an erLL and update them all I say.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #18 on: 11 May 2013, 18:32:30 »
I like the Gurkha, its neat 35 tonner.   I have buddy who loves these things, because the "stabby stabby" factor. 

As for the problem of it not being seen in combat, the Mech did generally appear in TRO:3067.   3067 was frozen in time for long time till then FanPro was ready to roll out Jihad HotSpots books.    I think another thing is WoB wasn't exactly in open combat during the 3060s, so why would any one notice WoB designs such as the Gurkha.     I do think novels stopping in 3067 (not talking about Dark Age books, though holdout WoB colony was spotted with couple of 3060 designs.), with nothing show casing such Gurkha and its other later 3067 designs in print, who going notice them?

I've always pictured all most Level II of these things going in doing serious smack down on Scout and Medium Lances while couple Vanquishers would provide covering fire power on their would be prey.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #19 on: 11 May 2013, 21:25:08 »
Well, it is in the RATs for WoB in Turning Points: New Dallas.  Maybe the little stabber that could will get some more love now...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #20 on: 11 May 2013, 22:30:42 »
They've been in the RAT's since FM:Updates. The feature in all levels of the RATs in Jihad Secrets (SD, A, B, BP).

What may get them more noticed in HTP: New Dallas is that the WoB force is limited to light and medium mechs, so they're never going to roll on the heavy or assault tables if you follow the Unit Ability rules :)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #21 on: 12 May 2013, 01:21:19 »
The whole thing about "Worry about the Gurkha's buddies" is very appropriate. There is a unit that my group
calls "That Level II!" It consists of 2 Gurkhas(preferably the ER PPC ones), Three of the ER PPC +C3i Hussar,
and....anything else with a C3i. I like to use an Initiate model with C3i, but just about anything medium or heavy
with some good speed and firepower works. Key thing is: this bruiser's job is to make your opponent worry about
it, while you use the Gurkhas to tag team the target, and the hussars form Conga Lines and concentrate fire.
This works best if you are isolating one enemy 'mech, firing everything into it one turn, then breaking away from
the enemy where he cannot target any of your units the next turn. It is a frustrating fight for the enemy, and if the
Wobble makes any mistakes, it goes south REAL fast..but it works. I have not tried doing this with 6 Gurkhas, but
I would think that it would have a similar effect, just it would have a little harder time doing the break off portion..
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

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Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #22 on: 12 May 2013, 03:15:09 »
TSM use has always been a bit spotty, despite the fact that technically any 'Mech with the requisite free critical slots could install it without suffering for it in the slightest. I think there may be two reasons for this:...

The fundamental issue with this like of reasoning is that no IS 'Mech should ever have that many free crits.  Between all the grades of Ferro-Fibrous armor (this is especially important because they only need one more crit than TSM), Endo-Steel, alternate engines, alternate gyros, and small cockpits you can always optimize out the vast majority of free space on a design so you have to specifically make room for TSM if you want to use it on an optimal design.

The whole thing about "Worry about the Gurkha's buddies" is very appropriate. There is a unit that my group
calls "That Level II!" It consists of 2 Gurkhas(preferably the ER PPC ones), Three of the ER PPC +C3i Hussar,
and....anything else with a C3i. I like to use an Initiate model with C3i, but just about anything medium or heavy
with some good speed and firepower works. Key thing is: this bruiser's job is to make your opponent worry about
it, while you use the Gurkhas to tag team the target, and the hussars form Conga Lines and concentrate fire.
This works best if you are isolating one enemy 'mech, firing everything into it one turn, then breaking away from
the enemy where he cannot target any of your units the next turn. It is a frustrating fight for the enemy, and if the
Wobble makes any mistakes, it goes south REAL fast..but it works. I have not tried doing this with 6 Gurkhas, but
I would think that it would have a similar effect, just it would have a little harder time doing the break off portion..

While I can see how that could be annoying, it seems like it should fall victim to what I refer to as "assault star jamming".  When I see that, I group my assault core into a tight formation and start blowing the spotters away with concentrated fire from several large, heavily armed 'Mechs with good pilots.  The result is that they will get no benefit over advancing every unit into medium range and loose the ability to get anything into short range unless they throw most or all of the unit into "spotting" which takes the C3 network out of the picture.


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StCptMara

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #23 on: 12 May 2013, 04:08:10 »
While I can see how that could be annoying, it seems like it should fall victim to what I refer to as "assault star jamming".  When I see that, I group my assault core into a tight formation and start blowing the spotters away with concentrated fire from several large, heavily armed 'Mechs with good pilots.  The result is that they will get no benefit over advancing every unit into medium range and loose the ability to get anything into short range unless they throw most or all of the unit into "spotting" which takes the C3 network out of the picture.

I like to use that group in cities or terrain where, even punching up, I can still dictate line of sight 6+ hexes out.
My group does alot of city fights, too...
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #24 on: 12 May 2013, 04:59:55 »
The fundamental issue with this like of reasoning is that no IS 'Mech should ever have that many free crits.

Says who, exactly?

Suppose all I want to do is refit my old Succession Wars era Rifleman with TSM so as to get some use out of the heat the old lady will build up anyway. Am I then honor-bound to commit seppuku afterwards if I don't also make a bevy of other changes that would result in a completely new machine at the same time?

SCC

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #25 on: 12 May 2013, 05:47:22 »
The Quickdraw QKD-8X is built around TSM, of course it would have been better if it had used iTSM but still

A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #26 on: 12 May 2013, 06:24:48 »
The Quickdraw QKD-8X is built around TSM, of course it would have been better if it had used iTSM but still

Industrial TSM isn't available to BattleMechs, so that kind of rules out that option right there. It also provides no speed boost, takes up twice the number of slots, and inflicts both a +1 on PSRs and +2 to hit on physical attacks in any event, so pretty much the only benefit would be the ability to carry heavier handheld weapons without having to heat up first.

Which would be convenient, to be sure, but I'm not convinced it'd really be worth the drawbacks.

Maelwys

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #27 on: 12 May 2013, 07:52:59 »
See, I don't think all designs need to have TSM, even if they have the space. Nor do I think a design needs to be optimized to get 9 heat exactly (though I'll admit I like it when it does, and get frustrated on some of the designs that don't :) ).

But come on. The Gurkha is based around an all energy loadout (which it cant handle completely with its heat sinks). It also has a melee weapon which was a propaganda tool to promote patriotism and esprit de corps. Why not give it TSM? I'm happy it got it eventually, but why not in the beginning? Why not the 3rd variant?

Which do you think pilots wanted? A sword, or a sword that hit like it had the power of Blake behind it? :)

As for the retractable Blade, I agree with everything that Redshirt stated (except for the damage. I'm pretty sure its 8 damage with TSM active, not 7). The advanced rules for it give it a niche atleast.

Just...come on. Give one the sword variants TSM as well :)

Diablo48

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #28 on: 12 May 2013, 11:47:41 »
I like to use that group in cities or terrain where, even punching up, I can still dictate line of sight 6+ hexes out.
My group does alot of city fights, too...

That would change things, although at that point you have to worry about things like iJJs in Dire Wolves which are far more terrifying than that network.  Seriously, after adding in iJJs the Dire Wolf can run down heavies while still carrying more armor and firepower than they do, and anything lighter basically has to get out of the area or die.

Says who, exactly?

Suppose all I want to do is refit my old Succession Wars era Rifleman with TSM so as to get some use out of the heat the old lady will build up anyway. Am I then honor-bound to commit seppuku afterwards if I don't also make a bevy of other changes that would result in a completely new machine at the same time?

You actually.  You were talking about optimizing designs, so I pointed out that you should never have that many free crits in an optimal design in the first place.  Thus any optimal design must specifically make room for TSM and it cannot just be thrown in.


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A. Lurker

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: GUR-*G Gurkha
« Reply #29 on: 12 May 2013, 12:51:29 »
You actually.  You were talking about optimizing designs, so I pointed out that you should never have that many free crits in an optimal design in the first place.  Thus any optimal design must specifically make room for TSM and it cannot just be thrown in.

Your statement was, if I may cite (emphasis mine):

The fundamental issue with this like of reasoning is that no IS 'Mech should ever have that many free crits.

I find myself oddly tempted to conclude that your definition of "IS 'Mech" must be considerably more narrow than mine. ^-^

Likewise, you seem to be jumping rather quickly to the dual conclusions that (a) just because I'm looking for some way to improve a design, I must therefore automatically be trying to "optimize" it into some perfect tricked-out wonder with every available option turned up to eleven and (b) that our ideas of what "optimal" even means must of course be 100% in agreement. Knowing myself and looking at all the stuff you would apparently be inclined to spend critical slots on before even stopping to consider TSM, I think I can with some confidence state that neither is actually the case. :)

 

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