Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz  (Read 17763 times)

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« on: 13 March 2011, 05:08:39 »
Kirghiz - 100t, TRO3055
Originally posted 3 Aug. 2005.

  All proposed fan-variants should be posted in the corresponding “FotW Workshop” thread.


  The heaviest of the Clan OmniFighters yet revealed to us, and quite possibly part of the inspiration for the formidable Lyran Eisensturm, the Kirghiz was the next best thing to unstoppable when it first appeared in the Inner Sphere.  One of the older OmniFighters ever produced, it also shows us exactly how nasty even an incomplete application of ClanTech can be in an Aerospace platform.

  A hundred tons of death-from-above wrapped around a 300XLFE and the typical five tons of gas, the 5/8 Kirghiz certainly isn’t going to set any speed or agility records; that said, the design is fluffed as having fairly forgiving handling characteristics, as opposed to its more ‘precise’ competitors, which endears it to many pilots.  ::)  That engine, by the bye, also houses twenty double heat-sinks; while seen in some other Omnis, this decision is a little curious on its face, but it does reduce the amount of piss-farting about required in connecting extra freezers when energy-heavy loadouts are installed.  The armour is standard plate, rather than “bulky” ferro-aluminium - a holdover from the days when FA armour on ASFs occupied two weapons-slots on each wing; it’s also why I say the application of ClanTech is ‘incomplete’ - but sixteen tons of the stuff, in an 84/62/48 pattern, renders the nose and wings immune to first-hit thresholding by Clan medium lasers.  That’s still a little light against ClanTech for my tastes, but the CBT universe is riddled with ‘legacy fluff’ decisions like that, so you pays your money and you takes your chances.  ::)  As for the pod-space... can I get a “Ye gods!”?  ;D  The use of an XLFE gave the Kirghiz some fifty-six-point-five (56.5) tons of pod-space to stuff chock-full of ClanTech firepower... lending credence to the fluff’s assertion that the Kirghiz can give some assault DropShips a run for their money.  :o

  Kirghiz Prime is what the Lyrans were shooting for when they armed the Eisensturm, and what a mark it is.  The nose houses an LB-10X autocannon with two tons of ammo (allowing situational choices of slug or proximity-fused }:)); each wing packs a Gauss Rifle with two tons of ammo and an ERLL; aft, we have an ERSL for tail-defence and two SSRM-6s with a ton of ammo each - the Streaks used to be mounted on the wings facing aft, and indeed could still be, but for gameplay purposes they’re considered ‘aft’ mounted.  Let’s see: the Prime can alpha-strike everything, facing both ways, and still be two points under its maximum heat-dissipation capacity.  Its ERLLs can reach into Extreme range for sniping duty; the GRs punish anything that strays into Long range or closer; and trying to tail the thing from Medium range or closer is a recipe for a face-full of Streak SRMs.  Nasty, nasty stuff, girls; this one can act as a sniper, as fire-support, or an anti-shipping platform, with a pre-TW Star generating two laser bays of 10 Capital (from Extreme conventional-weapon range, no less! :o), two 15-Capital Gauss bays, and the LB-10X’s lending the Star ‘merely’ 6 Capital (or another 10-Capital for slug rounds!).

  Kirghiz Alpha is more of the same, albeit in a different package.  The nose houses twin ERPPCs; each wing supports twin LPLs and an LB-2X autocannon(!) with a ton of ammo per AC; aft, we have an ERLL and an ERSL; four more heat-sinks are mounted to ameliorate the effects of throwing all that wattage down-range.  While the LB-2X is a weapon possessed of perhaps the most pitiful damage:mass ratio in all of CBT/AT, it also has Extreme range for next to no heat, allowing one to ‘plink’ for extended periods, and while a single LB-2X is to be laughed at, an entire Star of them makes for a one-point Capital bay, making it fit for use against targets with heavy armaments but little armour... such as many JumpShips with attached DropShips?  ???  Alpha-striking with the forward guns generates a nasty +6 heat deficit per turn, but use of ‘slashing’ attack runs where only one wing is brought to bear can offset that, and the Kirghiz Prime makes for a strafing run equivalent to an alpha-strike from a Warhawk Charlie (“though without the targeting computer!” many ground-pounders cry in relief, illusory as it may be.  ;D)  Note: prior to the ‘maximum of 6 fighters per squadron!’ rule instituted with the TW-era rules, a Star of Kirghiz-A could lay into a ’Ship with a PPC bay worth 30 capital (which will crit most anything, including some battleships!), and the two 20-point Capital LPL bays were hideous in their own right, too, with their -2 to-hit bonus.  The aft-mounted ERLL grants one the ultimate in Parthian shots and/or back-scratching, too: hot though it may be, it can hammer any would-be tail-gater (or the target it left behind!) with a weapon capable of TACing most starfighters - from Extreme range!  :o  This leaves no truly ‘safe’ range/angle envelope from which to engage a Kirghiz-A.  :o

  Kirghiz Bravo is the obligatory missile fire-support variant, mounting five LRM-20 racks (one in the nose, two in each wing), each with a single ton of ammunition and backed up by ERPPCs (one nose-mounted, one on each wing), an ERSL to use up that ‘spare’ half-ton, and an MPL aft to fend off the ass-grabbers; six extra DHS are included in the package.  The amount of hurt that five LRM-20s and three ERPPCs can put onto a target is perhaps better imagined than described, and when one realises that one can salvo both wings onto a target for only +2 heat, it gets even more gruesome.  :o  This one is pretty explicitly meant to use either its missiles or its beams, depending on which is appropriate to the situation; even so, the really, really limited ammo-stores do not fill me with joy and contentment.  (Though the fluff mention of ammo-loads like FASCAM warheads - the RL military term for ‘Thunder’ scatterable mines - makes one shudder to think of what a few passes by a couple of Kirghiz-Bravos will do for the mobility options of enemy ground-forces!  :o)  Anti-shipping Stars of Kirghiz-Bravo would be to be feared by ’Ship commanders; three LRM bays, one of 6 Capital points and two of 12, with three bays of 15 Capital for the PPCs, makes for a lot of misery for most canon WarShips not described as ‘battleships’.  }:)  And of course, strafing runs by three C/ERPPCs, any of which can headcap a ’Mech in one hit... not pretty.

  Kirghiz Charlie is meant for a gambit which is perhaps the single BARMIEST tactic I have ever heard proposed for a CBT battlefield... which is possibly why it might be successful, at least once or twice.  ::)  The nose-mounted twin LPLs, Ultra-20 and two tons of ammo, and that token little ERSL discourage anyone from getting too close; the ERPPCs in each wing blast opposition out of the way at Long range; twin ERLLs aft fend of anyone who tries to get behind the Charlie... and its precious cargo.  The Kirghiz-Charlie uses the remaining ten tons of pod-room for cargo racks, allowing it to air-drop two Points of battle-armour onto a target like they were bombs.
  Please take a moment to appreciate the insanity of that notion.  Bombing an opponent - with Elementals?  :o
  In-universe, it is hard to imagine the circumstances that would lead the Clans to develop such an... eccentric technique, unless it was cooked up by the Elemental-happy Ghost Bears (who invented the Kirghiz - coincidence?  Fshyeah, whatever.) or developed for ‘total war’ situations, where one’s forces were not restricted by bidding.  But with that set aside, it’s the kind of high-risk/high-gain scheme Clan commanders might find intriguing, and if timed just right, it could pay off beautifully - especially in the early days of Operation: REVIVAL, when battle-armour was still alien to Spheroid eyes and they didn’t know how to deal with it.  An enemy formation (probably Spheroids, since it’s a tactic likely to be used only against those considered without honour) is spotted ahead of the Clan spearhead, which heads for it (or lays in wait for it); just before the two units enter firing range of each other, a Star of Kirghiz-Charlies makes a low, fast bombing pass on the enemy... planting two full Binaries of Elementals right in the middle of the enemy, completely disrupting their formation-discipline, command-and-control, and any semblance of their battle-plan just as the engagement is about to begin.  “Chaos, panic and disorder - our work here is done!”  ;D
  That said, the Kirghiz-Charlie would also make a fairly well-protected courier-ship for running arms or other vital personnel/equipment/information past a fairly strong blockade force, and the rule in AT2R about using pod-space for bombs means that the Kirghiz-Charlie can put ten tons of rather more conventional air-delivered ordnance on target while retaining its 5/8 thrust curve... or load up on the externals as well and give ’em twenty tons at 3/5.  :o  PH33R!
  Please note that JediBear pointed out last time around that smaller WarShips, which might lack small-craft facilities, would likely use Kirghiz-Cs as boarding shuttles(!).  More to the original point, Weirdo also noted that Clan ROEs do permit the use of commando-style raids and headhunter tactics to open the way for heavier forces - so long as you’re sneaky about how you do it and the Toads mind their manners when they come knocking.  Please refer to his rather whimsically-phrased post in the transcript for more detail - Weirdo’s was the last post in the ‘first run’ thread.  ;)
  With no extra heat-sinks and all that energy-weaponry, Kirghiz-Charlie can’t even hope to alpha-strike, but use of proper bracketed fire - PPCs for range, the nose-bays up-close, and the ERLLs and one PPC while retiring - can make for useful all-range firepower.  Its Striking and/or Strafing abilities cannot be overstated, either - it’s that same Warhawk-Charlie routine, only more so - and its anti-shipping abilities are just as fearsome in full Stars:
 - Nose LPLs = 20 Capital
 - UAC-20s = 30 Capital
 - ERPPCs = 2 x 15 Capital
 - ERLLs = 20 Capital (for that ‘be sure to write!’ parting shot!  ;D)
  Of course, a lot of this is now moot, since the Total Warfare rules don’t allow for ASFs to carry cargo, much less BA as cargo, and shrink maximum Star size to improve WarShips survivability against fighters.  That said, the Catalyst Gaming Police are kind’a overstretched at the moment, so I don’t think they’ll come barging into your home-games to arrest you if you use this capability as originally intended....  }:)

  Kirghiz-D comes to us from the pages of ’55U (waves ‘hi’ to Weasel and Ghost_msl for the stats!)... and brother, this is gonna hurt.  The nose houses twin ERLLs (rarely a bad start), an ERML and an MPL; each wing houses two ATM-12s, supplied with no fewer than TWELVE tons of ammunition for all-day shoot-y-ness; an ERSL minds the back, for whatever little it’s worth; and five more DHS are shoehorned into the spaceframe to manage the heat-burden.
  They don’t succeed spectacularly well, but you can use both ERLLs and three racks’ worth of ER-ATMs to snipe at the opposition while you close, and the good news keeps getting better as the range falls; you can also freely make ‘slashing’ attacks with all the nose-guns and one wing’s ATMs when/if it gets into knife-distance while remaining five points under your maximum capacity.
  Personally, I don’t think the brace of mediums does much for the configuration save confuse the issue, but that can be covered in the ‘homebrew’ section.  ;)

  The Kirghiz is fluffed as a support player, and with other, smaller OmniFighters like the Visigoth delivering almost as much firepower on a sustained basis with fewer heat-problems, it’s certainly within reason.  On the other hand, the sheer punch of the above configurations argue for it to be used much like a Stuka and in accordance with the mantras: as heavy, whomp-’em-with-a-crowbar semi-mobile artillery, under heavy escort and with an eye out for defending fighters.  Remember, the lack of ferro-aluminium has left the design a little thin-skinned for sticking around with Clan ordnance on both sides, so try not to court more trouble.  ::)

  The trouble with finding a counter to the Kirghiz is not so much finding a fighter that can smack it about as finding one which can survive the attempt, especially with the obscenely overpowered tail-guns of the Alpha and Charlie configs.  :o  That said, the perennial favourite the Visigoth is perhaps the best bet for Clanners, as it’s mobile enough to (hopefully) get inside the Kirghiz with big enough guns to kill it before its own formidable throw-weight can knock the attacker down first.  On the Spheroid side of things, Eisensturms are probably your only realistic chance of eking out a win.  In either case, you’ll have to expect casualties; fifty-six-point-five tons of Clan weaponry is, in technical terms, a crapload of trouble for anyone to handle.  :o

  [VARIANT PROPOSAL(S) REDACTED] All proposed fan-variants - including my own - belong in the corresponding “FotW Workshop” thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,3054.0.html

  Be advised: the attached .txt transcripts of previous runs of this thread contain numerous reader-proposals for variants.  I’ll try to change those out for ‘sanitised’ versions of those threads when I can, but I can’t promise it’ll be soon - that’s a lot of ground to cover.  ;)

Neufeld

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #1 on: 13 March 2011, 06:25:51 »
I think you overstate the armor issues, since there are only four ASFs that in their TRO main variant that have better armor thresholding than the Kirghiz's 9/7/5: Eisensturm, Striga, Morgenstern and Hydaspes.
Other than that, the Kirghiz is a fun machine.

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lowrolling

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #2 on: 13 March 2011, 16:17:21 »
This beast is pure ugly with the comments you will get if you ever table one.
May no one ever know less then me......

Jellico

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #3 on: 13 March 2011, 16:34:10 »
The Kirghiz is an interesting example of rule creep. From the  the lack of ferro-fiberous, to the slightly lacking armour, to the cargo bay, and even the LB2-Xs. They were all things that were a good thing at the time, that have aged poorly as the rules have moved on. It is also worth pointing out the XL engine, and that the original Prime had its Streaks in its rear wings, another rule that has moved on.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #4 on: 14 March 2011, 08:33:21 »
I think you overstate the armor issues, since there are only four ASFs that in their TRO main variant that have better armor thresholding than the Kirghiz's 9/7/5: Eisensturm, Striga, Morgenstern and Hydaspes.
Other than that, the Kirghiz is a fun machine.

"Main variant" is a poor choice for comparison when considering how many units get heavier (or occasionally lighter) armor when being improved; effectively, you're comparing a lot of IS1 fighters to Clantech.  In addition, he doesn't ding the armor that much but calling it a little light is a fair assessment in my mind given the number of 10 point hits floating around.  It's a very solid platform overall.

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #5 on: 14 March 2011, 14:27:46 »
I've always wondered if the Scorpions didn't come up with the C for their Specialist Trinaries, or saw the Bears do it and the ran with the tactic.  The Kirghiz might not be as feared as it once was, but its one of the cooler looking birds in CBT, so I'll use them.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #6 on: 14 March 2011, 15:32:05 »
i really like this plane mostly because one of the horses star colonels pilots the C variant to bomb the enemies with elementals  ;)
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Neufeld

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #7 on: 14 March 2011, 16:04:03 »
"Main variant" is a poor choice for comparison when considering how many units get heavier (or occasionally lighter) armor when being improved; effectively, you're comparing a lot of IS1 fighters to Clantech.  In addition, he doesn't ding the armor that much but calling it a little light is a fair assessment in my mind given the number of 10 point hits floating around.  It's a very solid platform overall.

Still, going through RS3039u only gives four additional fighter variants that have better armor than Kirghiz: LCF-R20 Lucifer, CHP-W10 Chippewa, F-700a Riever, F-700b Riever. A couple more has stronger aft, while having weaker wings. Too bad we are still waiting for the 3075 and 3050 unabridged ASF record sheets. The funny thing is that both the Lucifer variant and the Chippewa variant are intro-tech. So of the 3039 fighters, only the Riever had an upgrade that gave it more armor than the Kirghiz.


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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #8 on: 14 March 2011, 18:24:02 »
You're right that there aren't that many fighters but my point was to compare everything, not just a limited subset.  You're missing the Chippewa IIC, though.

My fundamental point with the post, though, is that you're missing Trace's.  He's not overstating anything if you look carefully.  That's not an indictment, it's an assessment of the impact of the standard plate in light of the operating environment.  It's a very fair comment given how the number of 10 point damage weapons have proliferated, both in the number that can generate that sort of a hit (HMLs) and the number out in the field (IS ER PPCs have gotten more common, for instance).

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #9 on: 15 March 2011, 00:15:46 »
I have always liked the Kirghiz. ...and? Screw the rules, I am dropping Elemental bombs as I see fit!   ;D
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #10 on: 15 March 2011, 02:14:12 »
You know, back in the day when the troop carrying Kirghiz was first created, elemental points only took up a single ton of cargo space.

So originally the Kirghiz was supposed to be able to drop an entire binary of elementals on somebody.

An interesting image, that...
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #11 on: 15 March 2011, 03:04:49 »
I think you're doing the C a disservice by suggesting it's pod space is a gimnick.  It's basic airborne 101 done Clan style.

-Jackmc


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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #12 on: 15 March 2011, 05:54:47 »
You're right that there aren't that many fighters but my point was to compare everything, not just a limited subset.  You're missing the Chippewa IIC, though.

My fundamental point with the post, though, is that you're missing Trace's.  He's not overstating anything if you look carefully.  That's not an indictment, it's an assessment of the impact of the standard plate in light of the operating environment.  It's a very fair comment given how the number of 10 point damage weapons have proliferated, both in the number that can generate that sort of a hit (HMLs) and the number out in the field (IS ER PPCs have gotten more common, for instance).

Yeah, I am probably a bit oversensitive about complaints about Clan ASF armor. I have read too many posts about how all Clan fighters have paper for armor compared to the flying bricks of the Inner Sphere. The complaints about the 'thin' armor of Ostrogoth were ridiculous.

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We will be used to subdue the Capellan Confederation. We will be used to bring the Free Worlds League to heel. We will be used to
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-- Elias Crichell

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #13 on: 16 March 2011, 06:52:07 »
Oh, I'd be the first to admit they don't all have paper-thin armor but a lot of them are kind of light, some painfully so.  The Kirghiz is actually bucking that trend the same way the Visigoth tells it to take a hike on a smaller level.

Anyone saying that about the Ostrogoth needs to look at the armor again.  It's not on the level of the Morgenstern but the armor is basically comparable to an Eagle or Transgressor - the specifics vary by variants, as usual.  It's also got more podspace, more fuel, and more thrust to play with than the Lyrans' new toy while the armor is still approaching that of the Kirghiz.  The Wusun I can see some complaints about armor distribution, ditto the Mengqin and Poingard, but the Ostrogoth is quite acceptably protected for my tastes.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #14 on: 01 January 2012, 22:06:24 »
And last, but not lest, we have the new E to examine.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #15 on: 01 January 2012, 22:47:40 »
The HAG-frenzy continues, and as the largest available OmniFighter it appropriately mounts the largest available HAG. Cue all the usual comparisons with LRMs.

The combo of LPLs and Active Probe means that it'll have a good chance of landing at least some hits on enemy Large Craft, and the ECM will help keep enemy fighters from hitting, although that ERSL isn't going to do much to keep its tail clear.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #16 on: 02 January 2012, 00:06:46 »
The HAG-frenzy continues, and as the largest available OmniFighter it appropriately mounts the largest available HAG. Cue all the usual comparisons with LRMs.

The combo of LPLs and Active Probe means that it'll have a good chance of landing at least some hits on enemy Large Craft, and the ECM will help keep enemy fighters from hitting, although that ERSL isn't going to do much to keep its tail clear.

It also has the highest BV ever in a fighter and it earns it.  This thing can knock down some medium fighters with one salvo, and it can hit hard all the way out to long range.  The LPLs are doubly important, since they mean that even when this bird goes Winchester she's got a nasty bite.
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sillybrit

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #17 on: 02 January 2012, 00:48:09 »
But being able to down a Medium fighter in a single salvo isn't anything unique to the E and unfortunately it can be outgunned by lower BV designs. While I love the idea of Gauss gatlings, the HAG is inefficient BV-wise for aerospace combat. Using the optional rule for individual weapon ranges can help, but even then it's still not that great.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #18 on: 02 January 2012, 16:40:19 »
I have to say its been an interesting trend the way the Clans have gone to ECMs and Active Probes with the Es and TRO3085 while the IS hasn't. I blame the connection back to the SLDF and the Hellcat II.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #19 on: 02 January 2012, 18:20:45 »
A good point, and a curiousity.

Perhaps one reason for the lack of Probes on IS fighters might be that there are so few IS WarShips remaining that it's not considered worthwhile to load down a fighter with 1.5t for those rare occasions when a WarShip is encountered. That still leaves DropShips, but the IS armed forces might consider that they've got plenty of experience and a proven history of DropShip killing without Probes, and so don't feel the need.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #20 on: 02 January 2012, 18:21:56 »
What are the benefits of ECM and probes on ASFs? 

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #21 on: 02 January 2012, 18:58:00 »
In simple terms, ECM systems generate a +1 hit penalty for enemy fighters/small craft, or can be switched to ECCM mode to cancel enemy ECM, while Probes can negate enemy ECM at greater ranges. There's more complexity to this, including the differences of Large Craft electronic warfare covered in StratOps p110-113.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #22 on: 03 January 2012, 00:37:52 »
Given the difficulty of armouring against 7 point weapons, not being hit at all might be a good idea.y

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #23 on: 03 January 2012, 00:48:30 »
Yah, the lack of IS ECM is more odd than the lack of IS Probes. I can't think of a remotely plausible excuse for that, it's almost like the WW1 general's reasoning for not allowing the pilots to have parachutes.


Jellico

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #24 on: 03 January 2012, 01:02:40 »
Frankly I am sort of glad it happened that way. It adds a point of difference.

+1 to hit is about 10% of fire power. For 1.5 tons of ECM you are looking at about 30 points of armour. Right on the edge of justifiable. OTOH with Clan ECM you have 20 points of armour, and given Clan Heavy ASF regularly put out 50 points of damage (10% of 50 = 5) its justifiable.

wellspring

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #25 on: 27 February 2013, 16:12:29 »
I have always liked the Kirghiz. ...and? Screw the rules, I am dropping Elemental bombs as I see fit!   ;D

In mother Russia... oh never mind.

Just to keep the thread current, the latest errata restores the Kirghiz-C to all its Elemental-bombing glory.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #26 on: 27 February 2013, 16:57:22 »
Hooray, now the Kirghiz has two options for air-dropping troops! O0

(StratOps rules are more than a bit different than the air-dropping rules in TW. Both have their beneifts.)
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #27 on: 27 February 2013, 18:43:23 »
the Kirghiz C would make a very effective boarding shuttle in naval operations. it has the acceleration to get close to most dropships and warships in a naval battle, it has the armor to survive much of what such enemies can throw at it, and enough weapons it can actually fight its way past a screening element, and continue to contribute to the battle even after dropping off its boarding parties.
plus it fits in a regular fighter bay, saving space in the limited smallcraft bays of clan warships for more utility focused units.
the only real downside is the relatively short legs which comes from not having a strategic drive.


also, i believe with new 'bomb bay' quirk, that cargo space can be devoted to bombs, though you limited in the number of bombs you can expend each turn.

Diablo48

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #28 on: 27 February 2013, 19:06:50 »
the Kirghiz C would make a very effective boarding shuttle in naval operations. it has the acceleration to get close to most dropships and warships in a naval battle, it has the armor to survive much of what such enemies can throw at it, and enough weapons it can actually fight its way past a screening element, and continue to contribute to the battle even after dropping off its boarding parties.
plus it fits in a regular fighter bay, saving space in the limited smallcraft bays of clan warships for more utility focused units.
the only real downside is the relatively short legs which comes from not having a strategic drive.


also, i believe with new 'bomb bay' quirk, that cargo space can be devoted to bombs, though you limited in the number of bombs you can expend each turn.

That is one nasty boarding operation right there.  Those are some seriously mean fighters in their own right, and just one Star can deploy a staggering 100 Elementals which is probably going to be more than just about any ship can hope to fight off.


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sillybrit

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #29 on: 27 February 2013, 20:56:40 »
It'd only work for boarding ops where the target is stationary or definitely at no risk of being able to maneuver.  As per the boarding rules in TO, only Small Craft can dock with an active target vessel. Arguably, a fighter can't dock or recover on a hostile stationary vessel, so the marines will probably need to be capable of zero-G movement, such as Elementals.

Diablo48

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #30 on: 27 February 2013, 21:23:22 »
It'd only work for boarding ops where the target is stationary or definitely at no risk of being able to maneuver.  As per the boarding rules in TO, only Small Craft can dock with an active target vessel. Arguably, a fighter can't dock or recover on a hostile stationary vessel, so the marines will probably need to be capable of zero-G movement, such as Elementals.

Well, that would be a mild inconvenience at worst then given how popular Elementals are among the Clans and how most space ops suits are capable of some zero-G movement.

That said, it seems to me like your pilots should be able to pull off a bombing run with other suits so long as they got close and did not have too much relative velocity, but it would still be much higher risk than flying a few stars of Elementals in with Jump Jets.


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wellspring

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #31 on: 27 February 2013, 22:17:03 »
Well, that would be a mild inconvenience at worst then given how popular Elementals are among the Clans and how most space ops suits are capable of some zero-G movement.

That said, it seems to me like your pilots should be able to pull off a bombing run with other suits so long as they got close and did not have too much relative velocity, but it would still be much higher risk than flying a few stars of Elementals in with Jump Jets.

One happy effect of sillybrit's point is that since unarmored clan elemental marines give you more boarding points per ton of transport mass, this is a reason to use BA troops even if you're trying to game the marine points system. (though I suppose the unarmored marines can wear environment suits with jump jets?).

sillybrit

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #036 (repost) - Kirghiz
« Reply #32 on: 27 February 2013, 22:45:40 »
Yes, they're effectively just equipped with jump packs. A unit has to have a jump MP of 3+ to be counted as being able to maneuver in zero-G in game terms, as per SO p24. In "real life", any form of thruster should work, but as in other cases, the rules are only meant to be a simulation and thus have some ragged edges.