Author Topic: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor  (Read 11025 times)

sillybrit

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Leonidas Battle Armor - Technical Readout 3145 Free Worlds League page 5







     At first glance, you might be forgiven thinking that the Leonidas is a follow on of the Longinus, the most advanced and - arguably - most capable of the Inner Sphere's first wave of medium battle armor. A closer examination that looks past the mass reveals that the Leonidas is actually a supplement - not a replacement - for the lighter Achileus, and owes more than a hint of inspiration from the Infiltrator Mk II.

     Unsurprisingly, the Leonidas is to be found in the Free Worlds League version of Technical Readout 3145 and was introduced in-universe in 3108. Unlike the aforementioned older suits, the Leonidas is purely a ground-based design, lacking any jump jets, in keeping with the recent style for many stealthy suits that avoid the decidedly unstealthy signature that would result from using jets. With three Movement Points, the Leonidas still has a decent ability to get around the battlefield and gain an all-important Target Movement Modifier while doing so. Although limited to just a +1 modifier and unable to cope with any terrain that slows it down without losing the bonus, every little helps when you're trying to avoid getting hit.

     Once hit, the Leonidas shares the same armor value as the Infiltrator Mk II, allowing it to absorb an Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Laser strike, although any Clan Medium Laser will punch straight through. Like the Suns battlesuit, the Leonidas relies more upon the stealthiness of its armor for survival rather than its thickness, with the Standard Stealth plating shared with the older machine providing a hit penalty at all ranges. This ability to baffle enemy sensors unfortunately doesn't apply to conventional infantry, so as odd as it may seem, like other weakly-armored but stealthy suits, the Leonidas does sometimes have to tread carefully around the unit type it technically replaces.

     Also in common with the Infiltrator Mk II, the Leonidas mounts an ECM system, in this case the more advanced Angel version, which effectively provides two Guardian ECM systems in one device. Allowing the ECM to be run in two modes simultaneously this provides much greater flexibility. In many cases the player will want to opt for Ghost Targets for one mode, despite the recent balancing changes that makes this much less effective - as well as less laborious to use - than it used to be. Even with the reduced benefits, any ability to avoid enemy fire is to be cherished as it keeps your battle armor in the game longer.

     In lieu of the parafoil mounted on the Infiltrator Mk II, the Leonidas opts for a heavy battle claw as its sole manipulator, and with no other reserves of mass left, that meant that a large chunk of the mass required for the larger ECM system came from a reduced weapon payload. Despite this, one advantage the Leonidas does possess is that its weaponry is loaded onto a Modular Weapon Mount, allowing for much greater flexibility. Indeed, it doesn't even have to opt for weaponry, with certain non-weapon equipment such as sensors also being possible. Fitted coaxial to the main mount is an Anti-Personnel Weapon Mount, able to be equipped with any one-man non-Support infantry weapon, although the default Total War rules assume an Auto Rifle.

     The mount capacity isn't huge, maxing out with weapons such as the David Light Gauss Rifle and the Machine Gun. In keeping with the original battle armor with their troika of primary configurations, the Leonidas can also mount a Firedrake, giving it one of the best lightweight anti-infantry weapons available. As would be expected for a stealthy scout suit, other canon configurations mount a Light TAG or the Improved Sensors mentioned earlier. The latter is obviously defenseless in the BattleTech tactical game apart from its AP weapon, although the TAG-equipped configuration can potentially be the most dangerous given the right supporting units. The FWLM tendency to throw around a lot of Semi-Guided LRMs presents one obvious possibility even without artillery or air support being available.

     Like other medium or lighter battle armor with the appropriate claws and an arm-mounted non-missile weapon, the Leonidas can also perform both Leg Attacks and Swarm assaults on enemy units. Within the roleplaying game, the claw can also make a powerful melee attack against other battle armor or unarmored personnel. The claw also enables the suit to conduct Mechanized Battle Armor operations, hitching a ride on friendly OmniMechs and OmniVehicles. Such combined arms are vital for the success of any battle armor in offensive operations. If you don't have Omnis, at least provide some APCs and get those battlesuits into the fight. When on the defensive, the same boost in mobility provided by a good transport can enable you to get squads of battle armor to key choke points, and with the prospect of TAG-equipped Leonidas suits backed up by Arrow IVs, it can quickly be the enemy that are choking to death.

     Due to the lack of jump jets, the Leonidas can struggle in some terrain, such river crossings, but its high ground speed makes for excellent mobility in urban environments. The stealthiness and payload options can also work well in city battlefields, scouting out foes, marking them for incoming fire or eliminating pesky PBIs. If the Leonidas has a weakness it has to be that it's poorly equipped to directly deal with armored foes by itself when compared to other battle armor designs. The David does allow for some ranged sniping, and the small scatter of hits may inflict a lucky crit or two against vehicles or damage ’Mechs, but the actual damage inflicted will take a long time to kill a foe otherwise. Unless using the optional battle armor critical hit rules this makes enemy battlesuits a dangerous opponent, and if the rules are used the door swings both ways, so it might end up being a mixed blessing. Conventional infantry are going to be situational: some platoons will defeat a Leonidas squad with ease unless caught at close range with Machine Guns or Firedrakes, while other platoons will fall as easily as those unfortunates who first encountered Clan Elementals.

     The Leonidas can be found operating with both the FWLM and abroad, having been sold to mercenaries, plus the Capellans, Canopians and Marians. Some old school Free Worlds players might raise an eyebrow at the idea of selling to their sometimes less than friendly neighbors, but the Leonidas was developed on Oriente so its distribution makes sense given the current state of politics in the Inner Sphere.

     Operating alongside existing Marik suits, the Leonidas provides a different style of scout to the still impressive Achileus. The greater flexibility, higher ground speed and ECM will be of more use on some battlefields and/or against certain foes, while the older lighter battlesuit will be the preferred option in other cases. For example, in river deltas or mountains you'd probably be better off with the jump-capable Achileus, but in cities or against C3-equipped foes, the Leonidas would be ideal. When needed, the Leonidas can even replace the Longinus as a frontline combat suit, but that's not truly its forte, just something it can do when the chips are down. The Leonidas' stealthiness will help it survive situations where a Longinus will fall, but that same stealthiness does better suit it going out and being sneaky rather than just going toe to toe with the enemy. With heavier, more powerful units, such as the Phalanx, Ogre or Xiphos, the Leonidas will work well when ranging ahead and wide, sniffing out foes and protecting the flanks of their comrades.

     Chris Daranouvong's artwork for the Leonidas is simply stunning and, as I've already waxed poetic on the boards, the matching of the name to the hoplon-like attachment on the left arm plus the helmet crest is sheer perfection for me. I get images of a Leonidas trooper putting the boot into a poor infantryman while bellowing "This is Sparta!" Sergeant Eugenios Tsakolov's entry in the notable units also made me grin. Sacred Band indeed! Well, he's half-Clan, so what can you expect, eh?

     With the Free Worlds now having a stable of battle armor to rival, and in some areas exceed, that of the battlesuit-crazy Federated Suns, the FWLM is now well placed to address its past struggles. Yes, I guess the ’Mechs, tanks, aero and PBIs will have roles to fill too; after all, every leading actor needs a cast of extras in the background just to pad out the scene. The Leonidas is one of the stars of the FWL's stable of battlesuits and will no doubt become a sight that many foes wished they hadn't paid to see.

Moonsword

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Some notes on ECM:

The Ghost Targets rewrite is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357573/Ghost%20Targets%20Revision.pdf

Angel's interaction with ECM and ECCM has been revised somewhat as well: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18161.msg710204.html#msg710204

Basically, Angel-level effects can't be countered by Guardian-level effects.  You can get a bimodal Guardian effect (1 ECM, 1 ECCM) instead of a single Angel effect.

Weirdo

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Some notes on ECM:

The Ghost Targets rewrite is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357573/Ghost%20Targets%20Revision.pdf

Sweet, when did that get published? I've been waiting to use it!
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Moonsword

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Sweet, when did that get published? I've been waiting to use it!

End of January, I think.

Weirdo

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You mean all this time...Hellbringers, Grand Titans...ARGBGLMLGBL!!! [metalhealth]

Back on the Leonidas...can an ECM battlesuit use this while being transported to help protect the APC?
« Last Edit: 25 June 2013, 16:38:39 by Weirdo »
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glitterboy2098

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Some notes on ECM:

The Ghost Targets rewrite is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/357573/Ghost%20Targets%20Revision.pdf

Angel's interaction with ECM and ECCM has been revised somewhat as well: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,18161.msg710204.html#msg710204

Basically, Angel-level effects can't be countered by Guardian-level effects.  You can get a bimodal Guardian effect (1 ECM, 1 ECCM) instead of a single Angel effect.

and don't forget welshman's comment about Battlearmor ECM systems..
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,11730.msg284394.html#msg284394

one point of Angel ECM equipped Battlearmor can do a lot of E-War
« Last Edit: 26 June 2013, 01:37:47 by glitterboy2098 »

Maelwys

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The fluff seems to suggest that the suit was designed to replace the scarce Achileus, not just supplement them ("Fill a gap in Oriente's military capabilities caused by a scarcity of the Achileus..." "It proved more than adequate to replace....") which makes some sense, though I bet some users missed the utility of the armored gloves if they switched from the Achileus to the Leonidas.

If you're using the Ghost Targets rule (And if you're using Angel ECM there's a good possibility you're using other rules from TacOps as well), then the Ghost Target's bonus helps negate the lower TN modifier that the Leonidas usually generates for movement.

The weaponry is sort of anemic for a medium suit, but when you realize its main goal is to carry the Angel and not necessarily line-combat, the 100 kg devoted to "weaponry" seems adequate. Though I guess it does bring up the question if there's really any reason not to go with a medium suit over a light suit (UMU and VTOL seems to be the only reason that I can find off hand).

I do have to wonder about Welshman's comment about each ECM suite being able to do its own thing (unless I missed something, he didn't follow up on any of the questions asked about it, and I don't believe we've seen any comments on it). It should be interesting to see what happens in the future..after all, if each BA's ECM functions as its own, does that mean each BA's c3 computer functions as its own?

I do wonder how long until someone makes a BA Shield rule/equipment.

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So wait.

A Marian Squad has 5 Angel ECMs to do do stuff with? Like running one on ECCM, one on full ECM and still three left for Ghost Targets?!


Well. Ok. Now I see why we bought that suit! >:D

Maelwys

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So wait.

A Marian Squad has 5 Angel ECMs to do do stuff with? Like running one on ECCM, one on full ECM and still three left for Ghost Targets?!

Well. Ok. Now I see why we bought that suit! >:D

Well, according to a post by Welshman in a non-official place. I can't say I've ever interpreted the rule that way, and considering all the responses so far, it seems pretty obvious that alot of other people have never really seen it that way either.

I mean, imagine someone came up to you and said that their BA squad can be spotting for 4 different c3 networks, because each BA suit is spotting for a separate network.

It might be worth a question thread if there isn't already one.

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I could be misremembering, but under the latest TacOps errata doesn't battlesuit Angel ECM extend its field into the adjacent hexes?


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RichQ03

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #10 on: 26 June 2013, 07:36:42 »
The David does allow for some ranged sniping, and the small scatter of hits may inflict a lucky crit or two against vehicles or damage ’Mechs, but the actual damage inflicted will take a long time to kill a foe otherwise. Unless using the optional battle armor critical hit rules this makes enemy battlesuits a dangerous opponent, and if the rules are used the door swings both ways, so it might end up being a mixed blessing.

Now I know the BA critical hit rules where every time they get hit you roll again to see if they go squish...but is there something else the David can do against Mechs or vehicles other than damage or the 'golden BB'?

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #11 on: 26 June 2013, 08:26:43 »
It makes the Leonidas a great valet attendant, becuase when a full squad open up on a vehicle, the odds of parking it are very good. Doing so from a decent range is what makes it a good anti-tank weapon.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #12 on: 26 June 2013, 10:06:57 »
Well, according to a post by Welshman in a non-official place. I can't say I've ever interpreted the rule that way, and considering all the responses so far, it seems pretty obvious that alot of other people have never really seen it that way either.

I mean, imagine someone came up to you and said that their BA squad can be spotting for 4 different c3 networks, because each BA suit is spotting for a separate network.

It might be worth a question thread if there isn't already one.
Note that if all other rules regarding ECM is still in force each BA suit could only use Ghost Targets on one other suit - each suit has to count as its own unit, since no unit may use more than one ECM system.

Which leads to even worse things when you realize an enemy who wants to use Ghost Targets against BA should now have to target each BA individually, but each BA squad/point still fire as one unit...

I really, really hope TPTB realize what an incredibly bad idea it would be!

Moonsword

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #13 on: 26 June 2013, 11:07:50 »
Back on the Leonidas...can an ECM battlesuit use this while being transported to help protect the APC?

No.

I really, really hope TPTB realize what an incredibly bad idea it would be!

I can't speak for anyone quite that exalted but I'll get this addressed internally and some sort of official ruling made.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #14 on: 26 June 2013, 11:18:15 »
No.
I really need to look these things up myself more often. Total War, page 224 disagrees with you, which bodes well for APCs carrying Leonidae and Ogres (Interdictor). :)
Quote
I can't speak for anyone quite that exalted but I'll get this addressed internally and some sort of official ruling made.
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Moonsword

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #15 on: 26 June 2013, 11:37:48 »
I really need to look these things up myself more often. Total War, page 224 disagrees with you, which bodes well for APCs carrying Leonidae and Ogres (Interdictor). :)

...okay, so we did do that, but I'm going to rabble rouse about it internally.

Welshman

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #16 on: 26 June 2013, 14:12:44 »
...okay, so we did do that, but I'm going to rabble rouse about it internally.

That's definitely an error we need to correct. Our apologies. BA was never designed to be able to have it's electronics impact the battlefield while loaded in something else. It would create far too many complexities in the rules that would be difficult to juggle and manage.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #17 on: 26 June 2013, 14:31:57 »
That's definitely an error we need to correct. Our apologies. BA was never designed to be able to have it's electronics impact the battlefield while loaded in something else. It would create far too many complexities in the rules that would be difficult to juggle and manage.

What about while riding the outside?  The R-10 is still begging to get some free ECM out of the deal. :D
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #18 on: 26 June 2013, 17:27:42 »
The fluff seems to suggest that the suit was designed to replace the scarce Achileus, not just supplement them ("Fill a gap in Oriente's military capabilities caused by a scarcity of the Achileus..." "It proved more than adequate to replace....") which makes some sense, though I bet some users missed the utility of the armored gloves if they switched from the Achileus to the Leonidas.

Functionally the Leonidas isn't a replacement for the Achileus. It can't be. Quite simply there are going to be situations where a Leonidas will be incapable of undertaking tasks that a Achileus is capable of doing.

Moonsword

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #19 on: 26 June 2013, 18:48:28 »
Functionally the Leonidas isn't a replacement for the Achileus. It can't be. Quite simply there are going to be situations where a Leonidas will be incapable of undertaking tasks that a Achileus is capable of doing.

I tend to agree.  The difference in manipulators (and sheer size for that matter) will preclude certain infiltration tasks.  The lack of jump jets will block it from accomplishing plenty of other uses and force VTOL deployments to involve landings.  TROs have always had somewhat screwy fluff from time to time.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #20 on: 26 June 2013, 20:08:32 »
Note that if all other rules regarding ECM is still in force each BA suit could only use Ghost Targets on one other suit - each suit has to count as its own unit, since no unit may use more than one ECM system.

Which leads to even worse things when you realize an enemy who wants to use Ghost Targets against BA should now have to target each BA individually, but each BA squad/point still fire as one unit...

I really, really hope TPTB realize what an incredibly bad idea it would be!
Ah, no, a SQUAD of BA is not only a unit but also something that can't be separated, if something effects one suit it normally effects the whole squad

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #21 on: 26 June 2013, 22:22:27 »
Functionally the Leonidas isn't a replacement for the Achileus. It can't be. Quite simply there are going to be situations where a Leonidas will be incapable of undertaking tasks that a Achileus is capable of doing.

Oh, I quite agree there are going to be issues with replacing the Achileus with the Leonidas. I'm just saying that the fluff seems to say that they did exactly that. Its probably not the first time in history that something has been replaced by another thing that can't quite do what the original did. The biggest of course is the loss of the manipulators in my mind.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #22 on: 27 June 2013, 01:06:42 »
Ah, no, a SQUAD of BA is not only a unit but also something that can't be separated, if something effects one suit it normally effects the whole squad
That's exactly my point. If a squad is one unit it can, by the rules, only operate one ECM unit. But if each BA can operate its ECM separately it can no longer be a single unit - and thus the rules falls apart.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #23 on: 27 June 2013, 01:17:29 »
That's exactly my point. If a squad is one unit it can, by the rules, only operate one ECM unit. But if each BA can operate its ECM separately it can no longer be a single unit - and thus the rules falls apart.
at the same time, you only need one suit to gain the full benefits of the ECM.. and a squad has 4-5 suits. it doesn't make sense that those other 3-4 suits don't contribute something.

in universe, it would be logical that a squad could have one suit jamming, another counter-jamming enemy ECM, another generating ghost targets, etc..
« Last Edit: 27 June 2013, 01:19:35 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #24 on: 27 June 2013, 06:48:20 »
at the same time, you only need one suit to gain the full benefits of the ECM.. and a squad has 4-5 suits. it doesn't make sense that those other 3-4 suits don't contribute something.

in universe, it would be logical that a squad could have one suit jamming, another counter-jamming enemy ECM, another generating ghost targets, etc..
Logically, there should be a benefit to mounting 10 ECM systems on a mech, too. But there isn't, so there's no reason there should be for BA.

But if you feel that you're wasting weight, just use a squad mount to carry a single ECM unit!

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #25 on: 27 June 2013, 15:52:39 »
Ladies and gentlemen, the ECM question has already been addressed by the same developer who made the comment in the first place and a more substantive, official response is working its way through the process.  In the meantime, let's get back to the Leonidas.

If you want to debate how the ECM rules should work, please take it to the Fan Designs.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #26 on: 28 June 2013, 06:41:25 »
RPG and style-wise I'd probably wish for the AP weapon mount and the modular weapon mount to be on different arms (though to be honest, I'm not sure there's anything in ATOW that tracks this off hand). Crunch-wise if a weapon or a piece of equipment comes along that's lightweight, but bulky (2 slots), the Leonidas won't be able to utilize it.

It isn't necessarily restrictive now, but might become a problem later on.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - 3145 Special - Leonidas Battle Armor
« Reply #27 on: 28 June 2013, 08:37:32 »
It wouldn't matter even if the APWM was on the other arm, given that there's only one slot space remaining anyway. With that in mind, that's why I put the APWM where I did for cosmetic reasons; generally, the tradition established by the Elemental is to put it on the opposite arm to the main weapon/MWM, typically the one with the battle claw in designs with only one manipulator, but sometines it's nice to break tradition.