So is Earth a Clan Wolf possession or what?

[Istal_Devalis]

Just had a thought, King Aurthur pulls Excalibur from a stone, or is that a Stone?

Depends on whose version you read. In many (most?) of them, the Sword in the Stone was a completely different sword from Excalibur, the latter of which was usually given to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake.

[SCC]

Still, the point stands and people get the joke/idea

[Colt Ward]

Thought that was pretty clear . . . and Uncle Focht gets to play Merlin.

[Decoy]

Depends on whose version you read. In many (most?) of them, the Sword in the Stone was a completely different sword from Excalibur, the latter of which was usually given to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake.

*looks at a certain Tundrawolf that was a mail in offer* Huh.

[Istal_Devalis]

Still, the point stands and people get the joke/idea

Personally, I think it's stretching things to try to force an 'Arthur is Stone' connection, especially considering the RotS never really did the Arthurian thing.

[Colt Ward]

Really?  A golden age led by the king and his knights which all came crashing down to turn to chaos, anarchy, rivals and betrayal as each sought power.  While 'Modredd' is not the son of Stone, he is the son of a close supporter.  I mean the parallels are pretty easy to draw . . . heck, even fixing the HPGs is the search for the Holy Grail where knights ventured forth to find the chalice.

[SCC]

Personally, I think it's stretching things to try to force an 'Arthur is Stone' connection, especially considering the RotS never really did the Arthurian thing.

I was merely commenting on a line about Stone returning like King Aurthur would and the whole Sword in the Stone myth

[Wrangler]

Not to get too side track about Arthur and Stone.  However, the last of the "Classic" Battletech novels did suggest something was up with Arthur.  Patriots and Tyrants where Arthur died, suggested Blakists agent being interested in him specially him reciting writings from old colonial America era.  Then him being talked to while being submerged in some kind of containment vessel after the explosion that killed him. 

It did suggest he could have been made into Stone, but then TPTB decided to do something different or not go there with the character. 

[The Eagle]

Which raises the question, "If the Wobbies didn't turn Arthur into Stone, what *did* they do with him?"  I've been curious about his fate since I read Patriots and Tyrants -- though of the S-D boys, I have to say Peter was always my favorite -- and I honestly thought he was Stone, at least at first.

[martian]

Which raises the question, "If the Wobbies didn't turn Arthur into Stone, what *did* they do with him?"  I've been curious about his fate since I read Patriots and Tyrants -- though of the S-D boys, I have to say Peter was always my favorite -- and I honestly thought he was Stone, at least at first.

If you check the post #367 ...

[Kitsune413]

If you check the post #367 ...

Do we know where Stone was on that date?

[Istal_Devalis]

Really?  A golden age led by the king and his knights which all came crashing down to turn to chaos, anarchy, rivals and betrayal as each sought power.  While 'Modredd' is not the son of Stone, he is the son of a close supporter.  I mean the parallels are pretty easy to draw . . . heck, even fixing the HPGs is the search for the Holy Grail where knights ventured forth to find the chalice.

As opposed to the fall of the first Star League?
You can see parallels in a lot of things, but I put that more on archetypes in general rather then the legend of Arthur specifically.

[Captain of C-21]

If you check the post #367 ...

With all due respect, not everyone's got the resources to go out and buy every product for a tidbit/spoiler here or there amidst hundreds of other pages.  If you want to spoil something or make a point, it's probably better to just spoiler it and say where it came from.

[Wrangler]

With all due respect, not everyone's got the resources to go out and buy every product for a tidbit/spoiler here or there amidst hundreds of other pages.  If you want to spoil something or make a point, it's probably better to just spoiler it and say where it came from.

Basicly, it one of the three mercenary units that the Total Chaos highlights ended up under contract with the WoB and was one few combat units to leave Terra before it fell.  The mercenary commander a icon of House Davion, noticed one of the Manei Domini would had passing resemblence to Hanse Davion.

[Kitsune413]

I started the whole mordred thing as a joke, so my bad.  ;D

[martian]

In the Total Chaos scenariobook, the Mercs commander says that that man resembles old Hanse Davion, but that the fate of all his children is known. So the Mercs commander does not pursue the thought further.
People, who live in the BattleTech Universe, think that Arthur Steiner-Davion died in 3062.
But "we" know that somebody (and I dare to say that I am not alone who thinks that his saviors were probably WoB agents) has saved him.
Add to this occassional mentions about the Protége that can be found in numerous JHS books. Once there is even connection between the Protégé and some "Arthur".

That's one reason why I think that Devlin Stone and Arthur Steiner-Davion are different people.

[ColBosch]

Well, that and we have a first-person, through-the-eyes, account of Victor meeting Stone, and at no point did Victor think holy crap, that's my brother!

Also keep in mind that while some of the historical and mythological themes mentioned are certainly deliberate, that gives us no clues as to the end of the plotline. For one thing, Stone buggered off before the war started. (There is, however, a grail.)

[martian]

Well, that and we have a first-person, through-the-eyes, account of Victor meeting Stone, and at no point did Victor think holy crap, that's my brother!

I haven't mentioned that because on this forum I read serious ideas that Stone is Arthur Steiner-Davion after the plastic surgery.  ;)

[ColBosch]

I haven't mentioned that because on this forum I read serious ideas that Stone is Arthur Steiner-Davion after the plastic surgery.  ;)

Isn't he, like, six inches taller? It would seem that after a certain point you might as well just start with a different person.

[martian]

Isn't he, like, six inches taller? It would seem that after a certain point you might as well just start with a different person.

They would say that the WoB gave him injections of the somatotropin to lengthen his bones ...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Well, that and we have a first-person, through-the-eyes, account of Victor meeting Stone, and at no point did Victor think holy crap, that's my brother!

Katherine couldn't tell that Jerry Cranston was just Galen Cox with the addition of a beard even though she'd been engaged to Galen for I think around a year or two.  So Victor not recognizing Stone as Arthur in disguise would be kinda justified (though I don't subscribe to that hypothesis).

[GespenstM]

Katherine couldn't tell that Jerry Cranston was just Galen Cox with the addition of a beard

It gets worse than that. One time, Galen started wearing sunglasses and was able to pass himself off as "Lt. Quattro Bajeena", ace pilot for an anti-Lyran resistance group. He started calling himself Char Aznable after a teenager punched him, though. Then there was the time he started wearing regular glasses and everyone started calling him Clark Kent, but after he ripped his shirt off they excitedly knew him as "Superman!"

Eventually it escalated to him wearing no disguise at all, his shirt just had "I'M NOT GALEN COX" written on it in bold print and most people fell for it.

[ColBosch]

They would say that the WoB gave him injections of the somatotropin to lengthen his bones ...

We're really at the "holy crap, why bother at all?" stage, aren't we?

It gets worse than that. One time, Galen started wearing sunglasses and was able to pass himself off as "Lt. Quattro Bajeena", ace pilot for an anti-Lyran resistance group. He started calling himself Char Aznable after a teenager punched him, though. Then there was the time he started wearing regular glasses and everyone started calling him Clark Kent, but after he ripped his shirt off they excitedly knew him as "Superman!"

Eventually it escalated to him wearing no disguise at all, his shirt just had "I'M NOT GALEN COX" written on it in bold print and most people fell for it.

This would be better suited for the MechWarrior Hall, quiaff?

[glitterboy2098]

in the case of Galen, they didn't say he wasn't given cosmetic surgery.. they just emphasized the beard. its possible he did get his face altered, and then grew the beard to help break up the shape of his face, (since cosmetic surgery can only do so much, and can't really do anything to hide bone structure.)

[Lord Harlock]

In the Total Chaos scenariobook, the Mercs commander says that that man resembles old Hanse Davion, but that the fate of all his children is known. So the Mercs commander does not pursue the thought further.
People, who live in the BattleTech Universe, think that Arthur Steiner-Davion died in 3062.
But "we" know that somebody (and I dare to say that I am not alone who thinks that his saviors were probably WoB agents) has saved him.
Add to this occassional mentions about the Protége that can be found in numerous JHS books. Once there is even connection between the Protégé and some "Arthur".

That's one reason why I think that Devlin Stone and Arthur Steiner-Davion are different people.

Actually, that's not exactly true on all the Steiner-Davions. We have no idea whatever happened to Joshua, but other than Gauntlet fans, he's not a big issue for most fans. Probably, he became a mech insurance salesman. Though honestly, we also don't know if Yvonne is dead; for Harrison to succeed the throne of New Avalon, Yvonne doesn't have to die. The only truly confirmed Steiner-Davions siblings to the readers are Peter Steiner-Davion (3073), Victor Steiner-Davion (3134), and Kat Wolf (3143). Arthur is a nebulous black hole that is better to just not think about too long. Otherwise, you'll end up disappointed that every time the possibility exists that he might pop up; he isn't that guy be it Stone, Lucifer, or whoever that week is mysterious enough to be him that release.  Honestly, Arthur is one of the great disappointments of Battletech for me because Patriots and Tyrants sat up the potential for something, and it was rewarded with absolutely nothing except speculation.

Though Master and Minions does shed light on the fact that Manai Domini can be really altered considering that Lucifer is suppose to be a heavily modified Precentor Ravana minus the wings and claws and thirty percent of his face. That's not to say that Arthur is Stone, but there is a possibility. As for why alter Arthur, the only explanation is that the Master really hated Steiner-Davions, and there were layers to the line "not Steiner-Davion" in the opening story of Jihad: Final Reckoning. There is the meta aspect to it, but like his goal during the Jihad, it is a little vague.

Honestly, the Master's end goal is pretty nebulous in the end. If he wanted to recreate the Terran Hegemony, he had the forces to do it. That was Cameron St. Jamais' goal at the least, and after the Shadow Divisions starting infighting with the rest of the Word, there are indications that Evil Spock lost faith in the Master. Then again, the moving of the definition from the readers' understanding and probably Cameron's too boot of the Third Transfer only muddies what we understand of the plan. Honestly, the idea that the Republic of the Sphere is the third transfer makes as about as much sense as anything with a renamed Steiner-Davion as the head.

[Kitsune413]

Well, that and we have a first-person, through-the-eyes, account of Victor meeting Stone, and at no point did Victor think holy crap, that's my brother!

Also keep in mind that while some of the historical and mythological themes mentioned are certainly deliberate, that gives us no clues as to the end of the plotline. For one thing, Stone buggered off before the war started. (There is, however, a grail.)

Though, King Arthur's whole, 'being mostly dead' while his knights were searching for the grail is similar. Still, we have mostly just been jesting about similarities (well, I guess I have been) not really expecting it to play out the same way. That would be bad writing.

[Colt Ward]

Just one thing about Victor possibly not recognizing Arthur . . .

First, it was what roughly ten years between his 'death' and Vic meeting Stone?  Second, how much had Victor seen Arthur while they were younger?  Arthur was away attending Robinson while Vic was ruling on New Avalon, so add another two to three years of not seeing him.  Throw on Vic being on the frontlines while Melissa was still kicking . . . and before that the four years of military academy.  The kid grew up without Victor ever really seeing him, and he would have matured while not around Victor.  Anyone ever go back for the 10 year school re-union and not recognize their friends?

[Wrangler]

Just one thing about Victor possibly not recognizing Arthur . . .

First, it was what roughly ten years between his 'death' and Vic meeting Stone?  Second, how much had Victor seen Arthur while they were younger?  Arthur was away attending Robinson while Vic was ruling on New Avalon, so add another two to three years of not seeing him.  Throw on Vic being on the frontlines while Melissa was still kicking . . . and before that the four years of military academy.  The kid grew up without Victor ever really seeing him, and he would have matured while not around Victor.  Anyone ever go back for the 10 year school re-union and not recognize their friends?

Another thing that throws off Arthur having nothing to do with being Stone is a short-story that appeared in 25 Years of Art and Fiction.  Stackpole wrote the short-story called Well Met the Future.

The blaze illuminated the giant known as Devlin Stone. Half-golden from the firelight, and half hidden in shadows, he easily could have been mistaken for a Clan Elemental. Brooding and powerful, the kind of man who made you wonder
if you wanted to be walking on the same side of the street, or if it was time to get out of his way. He walked fluidly toward me, his long legs effortlessly shortening the distance between us. Easily half a meter taller than me, he engulfed my hand in his and shook it as David made introductions. “Precentor Martial Victor Davion, this is Devlin Stone.”

Considering how Arthur was described as a short fella like his brother, i don't think he was him if you go by this discription.

[SCC]

Oh, that's simple, they put him back into an iron womb after some gene slicing.

Remember that the latest story arcs have really played up the fact that BT and Shadow Run where made by the same company

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Not to that extent, as far as I was aware.