Author Topic: CSO paint-along with Gunji (Read 238461 times)

GunjiNoKanrei · « **Reply #120 on:** 11 October 2013, 05:09:40 »

How about a quick roll call to see where everyone is at. Please raise your hands and give me a status.

I realize some of you are busy, some may have dropped out and none have posted pictures with cockpit and grey areas completed yet. I'd still like to move forwards and post the green shading and highlighting steps later today to keep the thread moving.

Hang in there everyone. We are almost done with the boring stuff and are close to the most fun parts - weathering and details :)

serrate · « **Reply #121 on:** 11 October 2013, 06:45:44 »

I'm in, just been a very busy week. However, I will get to do some painting today, and I'll post the pics by tonight.

Mwenski · « **Reply #122 on:** 11 October 2013, 10:54:35 »

I'm still actively watching with great interest, I'm learning so much from the helpful feedback offered by all the participants, thank you posting this paint along. I will start posting here with pics once i can jump in.

Mastergunz · « **Reply #123 on:** 11 October 2013, 11:50:15 »

I'm still in it though I had to stop and finish a comission piece first. I will finish second stage highlights and cockpit/laser jeweling and post pics this weekend.

-Gunz

GunjiNoKanrei · « **Reply #124 on:** 11 October 2013, 11:58:07 »

Next up we will tackle the green, meaning shades and highlights up to about 90% final. Basically it is more of the same and we will use the same techniques (and mostly even the same shadow and highlight colors) we used for the red areas.

There isn't much to add that hasn't been said, so maybe I won't throw a wall of text at you this time, just a wall of pictures ... ;) Of course if anything is unclear, you have questions or like me to go into further detail, just tell me.

@serrate: I suggest you try to ignore the tiny panels for this step and instead look at it from a global point of view, shading across panels in a similar way you mapped out. You should however pay attention to panel lines and make sure they are dark(er) after the shading stage. When using the feathering technique some of the darker paint will accumulate in the panel lines, but I also suggest hitting those panel lines with a fine tipped brush and some thinned paint (that sounds more difficult than it actually is and we can do some cleanup - if necessary - during the highlight stage).

@Todd: Did you try to shade your black areas with dark blue as suggested? How did it work out?

Step 11: I didn't snap pictures of each individual shading stage and mix, but it was relatively straight forward with only two mixes. First I used neat Vallejo Panzer Aces Periscopes for a couple of layers and then a mix of Periscopes and a dab of black to really push the contrast. After the shading the whole miniature is pretty dark, but we will touch this up in the next step. Also the contrast is not quite as high as it is for the red parts - the green already was a rather dark color to begin with and it is much closer to blue on the color wheel than the maroon.

I have filmed myself while doing some of the shading work. Well, filmed myself is an exaggeration as the results are rather poor and I first didn't want to show this. But I know from first hand experience that reading about something and actually seeing it done (in moving pictures) is a huge difference. Sure, the quality of the video is so-and-so, the colors and contrast don't show up well, the camera positioning is sub-optimal for the viewer while still making it more than difficult for me to see and paint around it, but it should at least give you an idea of what I am doing. I am shading the left leg of the Mjolnir, not from the beginning though, but somewhere in the middle of the process (the last stages using neat Periscopes).
Note: the video is without sound (well, there is that random tune I picked from the YouTube Video Editor which I hope is unobtrusive enough and then there is me stirring the paint water ...) as I am painting in the bedroom and while filming this my wife and youngest son were sleeping lightly just around the corner ... And I just don't have the time or the means to do a voice over. I may add some comments when I can find the time though ... in the meantime feel free to ask anything you'd like to know more about.
Shading the Mjolnir

Step 12: Highlighting the green is next. The first thing I did was to bring back some of the basecolor, painting thin layers of Vallejo Game Color Reflective Green from light to dark (not covering all of the shadows). After a few layers of Reflective Green I added just a dab of Vallejo Model Air JS Interior Yellow to brighten the color a bit. The yellow is not very noticeable, but just adds a touch of warmth to the midtones, before pushing the contrast with cold(er) highlight colors.

Step 13: Adding Vallejo Model Color Light Sand to the mix makes things interesting now. Those Vallejo warm-ish off-white color like Sand or Ivory are very heavy on pigment and can easily dominate a mix. With just a bit of the Light Sand added the highlights really begin to show and add a lot of contrast. The lighter my highlight color gets, the less of the area I covered. I also tried to give the upper torso and head area stronger highlights (to make them a focal point) than the arms and especially the legs. For the extremities I quickly concentrated those bright highlights only on sharp edges and prominent corners. At that point I stopped the highlights for now, but we will revisit all lights and shadows later ;)

Phew, finally the Mjolnir is starting to at least resemble something like a painted miniature and we are almost ready for the weathering. But before we get to this we will add decals and paint the metallics in the next steps.

Regarding side-by-side pictures - I have made a collage showing all of the "milestone steps" so far (just a link as the collage is huge).
1. primed mini
2. basecolors
3. metallics washed (+ green shaded)
4. shading the red
5. highlighting the red
6. cockpit + grey areas
7. shading the green
8. highlighting the green

We have already come quite a way and the best is yet to come :) As already mentioned, metallics and decals will be next.

Mastergunz · « **Reply #125 on:** 11 October 2013, 12:04:22 »

Not yet, but that is next on the 'to do'. I recieved a comission last monday and it was a scheme I have been wanting to do for a while. Finished it last night so i'm back in the game. O0

-Gunz

serrate · « **Reply #126 on:** 12 October 2013, 00:04:48 »

Quote from: GunjiNoKanrei on 08 October 2013, 15:26:11

Wayfarer and serrate, after the glaze I suggest you let me know what you think and step away from the miniature for a night and look at it with fresh eyes the next morning. I often do this when I am not happy with my results (which happens a lot). You could also start on the grey areas and the cockpit to distract your minds from the red. We can still tweak the maroon later if desired. But finishinh other parts and eventually moving on to the green areas might change your perception of the maroon. It worked for me ;)

Yup, glazed the maroon parts, and I like it better. Probably needs another round of highlighting still. Also did the cockpit.

Originally, the only black part on the mini was the back of the left arm barrel. There was an area on the back of each ankle where I thought black would work, so I did those and then highlighted each of the black areas.

On to step 11...

Soutek · « **Reply #127 on:** 13 October 2013, 06:08:34 »

Just out of interest Gunji, how long would you spend painting a mech?

I reckon I spend 3+ hours on a mech but I tend to do things slowly.

Battledamage tends to let me down. Look forward to reading those steps.

Mastergunz · « **Reply #128 on:** 14 October 2013, 00:05:02 »

Updated pics. Got a new phone last weekend with, i'm sad to say, a better camera than my digital one I use for shooting mini's. #P

Still need some cleanup and final touches but I think its starting to 'feel' like the scheme I set out to do.

-Gunz

GunjiNoKanrei · « **Reply #129 on:** 14 October 2013, 05:13:03 »

@serrate: Yes, much better. When you get to the highlights on the green, try to keep the highlights with a lot of off-white concentrated to the very edges of the panel. That's probably another reason why you weren't happy with the red and perceived the intense highlights as harsh (one example would be the middle panel in the lower row on the Mech's right shoulder).

@Todd: Looking good so far. I like the smooth gradient on the black torso panel.
Personally I would try to push the contrast on the black some more, especially on the upper legs and the torso area (maybe the red as well in the torso area), painting some sharp(er) edge highlights.
Two things throw me off a little (attention, nit picking ahead ...) - the jeweling on the cockpit and on the small laser. I have said that I only roughly follow a fixed light source approach, but I at least try to create a harmonic impression/lighting situation (whether or not this succeeds is another story ...). Looking at your jeweling I admit not being able to "read" it as the light (indicated by the white dot) seems to be coming from somewhere else for every surface. This can be difficult to achieve on Mechs with many windscreens, but an easy way out would be to paint all the windows in an "U" shape. On the small laser it is not so much the direction of the lighsource that is throwing me off, but the fact that the laser doesn't seem to have a barrel. I get that impression because you jeweled the whole front. Why not leave a black border around the jeweling effect to indicate the barrel? Just a suggestion and - as mentioned - nit picking ;) Looking at the UrbanMech IIc in my cabinet, the miniature has a drilled out barrel. Did you file it flat? Just curious.

@Soutek: Even though I have gotten faster over time I can easily top your 3 hours. I'd say on average I spend somewhere between 8-12 hours on a Mech. I have pushed out faster pieces, but usually I don't feel very good about them and the joy over completing a mini quickly gives way to thoughts about what else I could have done. If I paint for a convention or competition the time spent can easily double, triple, ... there is no limit. For me painting is the most important aspect of the miniature hobby, that's why I'm in it. I don't play the game so I don't paint for the table or with the goal to finish a force to play with, but just to have the miniatures (collect dust) in my display cabinet ;)

serrate · « **Reply #130 on:** 14 October 2013, 10:35:10 »

Step 11: First used neat Periscopes for a couple layers, and then added black (actually Reaper Grey Liner) and did a couple more. I tried to ignore panel lines for the most part, although I was careful to line them a couple times. I felt good about it, really seemed like the global shading was working well.

Step 12: So, first used neat Reflective Green for a couple layers, and then moved to highlights. For highlights, I had to look up that light sand color. I had a Ceramcoat Mellow Yellow that seemed closest, although I also mixed in some Vallejo Buff.

Looking at the pics, there doesn't seem to be much difference, so many I need to do more highlighting before moving on to step 13.

Mastergunz · « **Reply #131 on:** 14 October 2013, 10:59:39 »

Thats really coming along serrate! O0

Mike, I think the main problem is my painting lights are overpowering the grey highlights on the black and the orange highlights on the red. When viewed in 'normal' light it has a good deal of contrasts (honestly, a lot more than I am normally comfortable with, lol). As for the jeweling, I have always filed laser bearrels down to jewel them. I'll take your advice and painta border to give the barrel look. The cockpit I totally agree with you. Even when I finished it late last night I couldn't help but feel it had a 'derpy' look to it. Like the Urbie fell off the shortbus/dropship. ;D I'll black them back out and do the 'U' shaped jeweling.

-Gunz

Spaceman · « **Reply #132 on:** 14 October 2013, 19:54:15 »

I am still interested in particpating but work and life keep interfering. I want to catch up this week/weekend.

Mastergunz · « **Reply #133 on:** 15 October 2013, 01:23:41 »

Ok, so some more progress made. Still need to do some clean up on the flames, etc...add decals and finish the base but getting close.

[Nathan Explosion] THUNDER...HORSE! [Nathan Explosion] >:D

-Gunz

GunjiNoKanrei · « **Reply #134 on:** 15 October 2013, 08:43:19 »

@serrate: The Enforcer is coming along very nicely! Buff is a good substitute for the Light Sand. It is a bit darker and not quite, but almost as if you mix the Light Sand and the Interior Yellow I have used.
I agree with your assessment of the highlights, another highlight or two wouldn't hurt (think edge highlights, not necessarily whole areas). With the highlights you have to balance the shading. The lighter the color gets the more you should concentrate on the less shaded areas. Some of the darkest panel/areas only receive a small edge highlight (but not with the brightest/lightest color). In the end you build up a gradient from dark to light which is broken up by ~~some~~ many panels which will be accentuated according to their position in the gradient ( @p? <- how I feel reading the sentence again ... hope it makes sense ...).
I would also suggest intensifying some of the shadows a little using a black/blue mix. Right now the blue looks a bit overpowering in some places (too intense blue, e.g. on the front torso). Nothing wrong with the intensity and it might also be exaggerated by your painting light, but to my eye something darker, less intense, is missing. Carefully going in there again with a black/blue to create some (small) darker shadows could help.
But this is really nit-picking. Overall you seem to have picked up the basics of the technique very well. Choice of colors, contrast, ... in the end those things don't only come down to practice, but also to personal preferences.
One suggestion - I somehow missed this so far, but I would suggest to paint the underside of the foot with metallics. I doubt this area would see any paint if it was a real Mech ;)

@Todd: The UrbanMech IIc is coming along nicely as well. The jeweling looks much better now in my opinion (arguably you forgot one windscreen though ;) ). But more important - how do you like it?
I see what you mean by the lights swallowing the highlights, but I'd still say push those highlights a little. Just very small and fine edge highlights on very few selected edges and corners. For the corners take a brush with only a little (thinned) paint and just dab the corners. Instant definition and 'pop'.
Did you use a gold metallic for the flames. Interesting (you are doing HH Alpha Keshik, right?). Looking forward to see how they turn out when finished.
And nice work on the warning stripes. I suggest some highlights to the yellow and black stripes and some shading with a reddish brown. At least that's what is coming up for the Mjolnir in one of the next steps.
Very interesting to have someone paint along with a completely different scheme. Definitely adds some variety O0

@spaceman (and everyone else who is catching up): No rush. I know that 'real life' has the habit of getting in the way. I'd just like to know who is still active :)

Mastergunz · « **Reply #135 on:** 15 October 2013, 10:05:32 »

Yes, CHH Alpha. I agree, the jeweling this way looks 100% better and as for the 'rear' viewscreen. Well, I don't like the idea of piloting an Urbie (IIC or otherwise) and having ferroglass at the back of my head, lol. The flames were done with a mixture of GW Dwarf Bronze and Army painter yellow. Added a bit of white to the mix for the 'hotter' area's. Glad to hear you are about to do the hazard striping example as I was wondering how you got the depth on it. O0

-Gunz

skumm · « **Reply #136 on:** 15 October 2013, 21:54:07 »

Quote from: GunjiNoKanrei on 11 October 2013, 05:09:40

How about a quick roll call to see where everyone is at. Please raise your hands and give me a status.

I realize some of you are busy, some may have dropped out and none have posted pictures with cockpit and grey areas completed yet. I'd still like to move forwards and post the green shading and highlighting steps later today to keep the thread moving.

Hang in there everyone. We are almost done with the boring stuff and are close to the most fun parts - weathering and details :)

basing and wash on green complete. I need to get pics up.

Wotan · « **Reply #137 on:** 16 October 2013, 07:17:03 »

Quote from: GunjiNoKanrei on 11 October 2013, 05:09:40

How about a quick roll call to see where everyone is at. Please raise your hands and give me a status.

I realize some of you are busy, some may have dropped out and none have posted pictures with cockpit and grey areas completed yet. I'd still like to move forwards and post the green shading and highlighting steps later today to keep the thread moving.

Hang in there everyone. We are almost done with the boring stuff and are close to the most fun parts - weathering and details :)

Had some very busy days and could not decide which Colors i want to use for the red/brown Highlights. But now i hope to come back to the Project. Will do Pictures after each step and hope to Close the gap once more. ;)

The Wayfarer · « **Reply #138 on:** 16 October 2013, 07:18:51 »

Still active. Working a ton this past week. Should be able to catch up Thursday or Friday. Will post pics then.

Mike

skumm · « **Reply #139 on:** 16 October 2013, 18:42:29 »

need a vallejo game color substitute for periscopes and sand. I dont live near a hobby shop but i have the full game color line plus some panzer aces stuff. but not periscopes or sand yer using

GunjiNoKanrei · « **Reply #140 on:** 16 October 2013, 18:58:38 »

Quote from: skumm on 16 October 2013, 18:42:29

need a vallejo game color substitute for periscopes and sand. I dont live near a hobby shop but i have the full game color line plus some panzer aces stuff. but not periscopes or sand yer using

Try Bonewhite as substitute for the Sand. For the green areas add a touch of Pale Yellow before adding Bonewhite. Periscopes will be a bit more tricky as the GC blues are all more saturated. Looking at the color chart I'd say try Stormy Blue, maybe add a dab of Dark Fleshtone to desaturate the blue a little.

agen2 · « **Reply #141 on:** 18 October 2013, 04:05:20 »

I'm back on my brushes and still stucked at step 3,but I'm still following,so go on.I have to ask please if anybody here have a table of reference of the compared colors of various brand?I have one but is really outdated and missing Reaper company.

GunjiNoKanrei · « **Reply #142 on:** 18 October 2013, 09:29:28 »

It's good to see/hear/read that so many of you are still participating :) Thanks for that.

Considering that so many are still catching up I will only post a small step today: decals and metallics.

Metallics can be quite involved, but as far as I know none of you is painting a Mech with a hand-held weapon or otherwise large metallic surface. So I think the next step will be relatively quick and easy for everyone. But to make the paint-along complete I will give you my approach to metallics in general and how I painted the joints and such (for you to follow along) and the hammer.
One of the most important aspects in miniature painting in my opinion is contrast. There are different types of contrast with the simplest being light and dark - a contrast we are using all over the miniature to give it definition and depth. For metallics I don't just want to look at a light-dark contrast, but also at a shiny-flat contrast.
If you look at metallics in real life you will often notice that the lightest parts, where the light is reflected most, really sparkle and shine while the shadows don't reflect the light and are dull and flat in comparison. We can easily simulate this effect on a miniature. To do this I shade my metallics with non-metallic paints only - no inks or anything glossy, just regular paint. On metallics I want a lot of control when painting the shadows so I mostly use glazes to gradually tint the surface, pushing dark pigments into the shadows. The more layers you build up the more shine you take out of the shadows. Midtones and highlights are then done with metallic paint, working up to silver for hot-spots.

During this step I have also applied the decals. Why the decals already? Well, to paint over them of course ;) Seriously. By painting over the decals I don't necessarily mean tracing the decal with brush and paint, but painting shadow and highlight layers over the decal when we revisit them. The result is a decal that looks and feels much more integrated, much more part of the miniature instead of a piece of paper that was tucked on. If you don't feel comfortable working with thin, translucent paint (yet) and are worried about painting over the decal, I suggest skipping the decals for now and apply them later, closer to the finish.

Step 14:
Not much to say about the decals ... two Republic of the Sphere decals applied, one to the front, one to the back. I don't use decals for numbers and warning stripes. Those will be painted on during a later step.
The metallics (all the metallics) were shaded first with a dark brown, then with black. On the joints and barrels I was a bit more sloppy than on the hammer. In the darkest shadows I used pure black paint. For the hammer I wanted something a little more elaborate, more eye catching. I thought long and hard about adding some kind of glow effect, but in the end I felt 'power' weapons were out of place in the BT universe. Rust and heavy weathering would have been another option, but again it didn't really feel appropriate. So in the end I simply settled on adding some color to the shadows to create visual diversity and interest. I just glazed the shadows with Vallejo Panzer Aces Periscopes a couple of times to give them a blue sheen. Quick and simple, but eye-catching when you hold the miniature in hand. Using the same blue I have used for most of the other shadows also nicely ties the hammer in with the rest of the Mech.
Midtones and highlights (on all metallics) were very straight-forward. Start by bringing back the basecolor (GW Boltgun Metal) and then gradually add Games Workshop Mithril Silver (or any other bright silver of your choice) until using neat silver for selected hot spots. I should probably note that I don't thin metallics as hevailly as non-metallic paints for the simple reason that it is very easy to 'overthin' them. The metallic pigments are bigger than non-metallic pigments and separate from the binder quite easily.

Here is also an update on the milestones collage, now including the metallics and decals step.

That's it for today. Next up will be the first weathering steps - dents and scratches :)

Mastergunz · « **Reply #143 on:** 18 October 2013, 23:28:59 »

Ok, so other projects have come up and I needed to get this one off the paint table so I went ahead and finished it after applying your suggestions Mike.

Clan Hell's Horses Alpha Keshik Urbie IIC >:D

Now I just need to work on a better lighting setup. :P

-Gunz

The Wayfarer · « **Reply #144 on:** 19 October 2013, 21:49:21 »

Cell phone pick below. Will try to update with better pics tomorrow. Have decals. Will apply soon.

Mike

agen2 · « **Reply #145 on:** 20 October 2013, 01:17:16 »

I have a question: is Vallejo Panzers Aces Periscopes a blu color?
That's mean that you shade the green with blu? ???

GunjiNoKanrei · « **Reply #146 on:** 20 October 2013, 06:15:13 »

Quote from: agen2 on 20 October 2013, 01:17:16

I have a question: is Vallejo Panzers Aces Periscopes a blu color?
That's mean that you shade the green with blu? ???

Yes, Periscopes is a unsaturated dark blue. It is my prefred shading color not just for green, but also for red (used here as well), brown, ... well, pretty much everything I want to shade with a cold color.

Shading and highlighting with a different shade of a given basecolor or by simply adding black/white may be the most straight forward way, but definitely not the only one. And in many cases not necessarily the best/most realistic one (whatever that means). Just study shadows and lights on real life objects. You will never encounter a pure black, there will always be hints of colors in there.
Also perception of colors comes into play. Cold (e.g. with blue) are perceived as 'distant', which in theory we can use to further enhance the contrast on our miniatures (shade with a cold color, highlight with a warm color - blue and yellow are prime examples for this, but I didn't fully implement this on the Mjolnir as I quickly use a relatively cold highlight color).
Shading with complementary colors also gives great results with a lot of contrast (e.g. shade red with dark green).

@Todd and The Wayfarer:
Both minis look good at first glance. I will comment in detail as soon as possible ... the little one is waking up from his nap so I have to run ...

agen2 · « **Reply #147 on:** 21 October 2013, 03:40:38 »

Quote

Yes, Periscopes is a unsaturated dark blue. It is my prefred shading color not just for green, but also for red (used here as well), brown, ... well, pretty much everything I want to shade with a cold color.

Is this Vallejo Periscopes comparable with a GW Regal Blue.

serrate · « **Reply #148 on:** 21 October 2013, 14:26:19 »

Gunz, nice work! You actually made that little Urbie look mean. Very nice flames. O0

Quote from: GunjiNoKanrei on 15 October 2013, 08:43:19

I agree with your assessment of the highlights, another highlight or two wouldn't hurt (think edge highlights, not necessarily whole areas). With the highlights you have to balance the shading. The lighter the color gets the more you should concentrate on the less shaded areas. Some of the darkest panel/areas only receive a small edge highlight (but not with the brightest/lightest color). In the end you build up a gradient from dark to light which is broken up by ~~some~~ many panels which will be accentuated according to their position in the gradient ( @p? <- how I feel reading the sentence again ... hope it makes sense ...).
I would also suggest intensifying some of the shadows a little using a black/blue mix. Right now the blue looks a bit overpowering in some places (too intense blue, e.g. on the front torso). Nothing wrong with the intensity and it might also be exaggerated by your painting light, but to my eye something darker, less intense, is missing. Carefully going in there again with a black/blue to create some (small) darker shadows could help.
But this is really nit-picking. Overall you seem to have picked up the basics of the technique very well. Choice of colors, contrast, ... in the end those things don't only come down to practice, but also to personal preferences.
One suggestion - I somehow missed this so far, but I would suggest to paint the underside of the foot with metallics. I doubt this area would see any paint if it was a real Mech ;)

Yep, that all made sense. I think the blue was exaggerated a bit when I used a specific auto edit setting in GIMP. However, I did go back in and add darker shadows to the deepest points. Used a little Periscopes with even more black. Horrible pics to follow, somewhat blurry/grainy:

Ok, then I started working on step 13. Started working progressively lighter highlights towards the brightest points of each global panel. Finally finishing up with 2 or 3 rounds of smaller and smaller sections of brighter edge highlights:

Possibly I need to add some appropriate highlights on darker panels (not as bright of course), to get that effect you mentioned above. However, I really like where it was at, so I thought I'd check in first.

The underside of the mech's foot has only a base-coat at this time. It will be finished with a mixture of mud, dirt, turf. My personal feeling is that anything weighing 50 tons moving at high speed is going to have a significant amount of local terrain attached to contact surfaces at all times. :)

I've started on step 14, however I don't have RotS decals, and I don't feel confident trying to freehand such a detailed emblem on a mech with no large panels to paint on. Metallics have been shaded and will get highlights today.

Mastergunz · « **Reply #149 on:** 21 October 2013, 14:40:02 »

Quote from: serrate on 21 October 2013, 14:26:19

Gunz, nice work! You actually made that little Urbie look mean. Very nice flames. O0

Thanks Serrate, I certainly learned a lot during this. My girlfriend calls it the 'angry little R2D2' (love her SO much for that comment ;D). Your Enforcer III is really coming along as well. Looking over your most recent pics i'm really getting the sense of the 'global' shading and am wanting to give that technique a shot soon. May just have to pick up a bottle of Periscopes after seeing what you guys are doing with it.

-Gunz