Unified Doctor Who thread

[gyedid]

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a great while...

Well, we shouldn't put it past Moffat.  After all, he's already brought back one rather obscure past villain (The Great Intelligence) and fashioned it into a credible modern Who adversary.  (One of his better moves IMO.)


But if it is the Black Guardian, then shouldn't the White Guardian be in the picture as well...?

And speaking of the Great Intelligence/Simeon, have we seen the last of him...?


cheers,

Gabe

[Lore]

You know, I keep hearing all theze theories, but no one has yet,that I've seen, suggested my idea, which I first had upon seeing the scene.

She's probably the Black Guardian

Now that, would be kind of cool!

[monbvol]

Well, we shouldn't put it past Moffat.  After all, he's already brought back one rather obscure past villain (The Great Intelligence) and fashioned it into a credible modern Who adversary.  (One of his better moves IMO.)


But if it is the Black Guardian, then shouldn't the White Guardian be in the picture as well...?

And speaking of the Great Intelligence/Simeon, have we seen the last of him...?


cheers,

Gabe

I actually suspect the answer to your question is no and I actually don't mind that as I tend to agree that it was a fairly decent villain and the plot line last we saw of it has left some interesting possibilities.

[gyedid]

Yet another wild hypothesis as to the true identity of Missy...


I seriously doubt Missy is River Song--Missy referred to the Doctor as her boyfriend, not as her husband.  Rather, I think Missy could well be Clara--or rather, a distillation of all her worst characteristics (including possessive feelings toward the Doctor) given corporeal form, in much the same way that the "Dream Lord" (remember him?) was a representation of all the Doctor's worst tendencies (especially his self-loathing).  How she's given form remains to be revealed.  Perhaps she's somehow generated from one of the copies created when Clara fell through the Doctor's time stream?

And on that last point...think there's any chance that "Clara Prime" will encounter one of those copies during her further travels?


cheers,

Gabe

[Luciora]

It looks like the rights to a former Who villainess have been settled as she's been appearing in the big Finnish audios.  So she could be a contender for a return even if not in the current series.   

[YingJanshi]

Just watched Deep Breath again (and will watch again later tonight with my dad), and I have to say, that whatever else I may feel about the show; I am quite certain Capaldi nailed it first try. He isn't going to need a warm up period for me. As far as I'm concerned he is the Doctor. Though, when he was sitting there, pouring the drinks, that's the moment I know the Doctor had arrived. A very good scene.

Mere speculation here, but if the android had killed himself...would he not have fallen face first? Of course it doesn't mean anything, the Doctor could have easily thrown him out backwards, or he could have even fallen back. But it is something interesting to consider...

Did anyone else consider it a bit odd that the androids were called "droids"? Perhaps it doesn't have any sway in the UK (very likely not), but I was under the impression LucasFilms had a copyright on "droid(s)"? It's not exactly a generic word...

It looks like the rights to a former Who villainess have been settled as she's been appearing in the big Finnish audios.  So she could be a contender for a return even if not in the current series.   

I would be curious to know how they would explain how she survived the Time War. If even the Master was called in to help...I'd be surprised to learn that the Rani had not.
Did she run like the Master? I think it would be more likely that one of her experiments backfired...

[roosterboy]

Lucasfilm has a trademark on "droid", not a copyright; you can't copyright a word. So it's technically okay for some other work to use the term "droid", as long as it's not used as part of the marketing. Same reason DC can have (or used to have before the New 52) a character named Captain Marvel but can't have a comic titled Captain Marvel; Marvel owns the trademark on that name.

[Lore]

Just watched Deep Breath again (and will watch again later tonight with my dad), and I have to say, that whatever else I may feel about the show; I am quite certain Capaldi nailed it first try. He isn't going to need a warm up period for me. As far as I'm concerned he is the Doctor. Though, when he was sitting there, pouring the drinks, that's the moment I know the Doctor had arrived. A very good scene.

I'm still not sure why, but that scene just reminded me so much of the Tom "Fourth Doctor" Baker-era.

[StCptMara]

So..I just saw a show where Capaldi and Coleman were going around meeting fans doing
awesome stuff with Doctor Who around the world. It surprised me. I would have thought,
since Doctor Who originates in England, it would be like other British companies and following
the law to aggressively defend their trademarks?

[Ruger]

No comments yet on "Into the Dalek"?  ???

Thought it was a decent episode overall myself...loved the homages to "Fantastic Voyage" and "Dalek"...

Ruger

[monbvol]

The Doctor is certainly becoming a bit more rigid as he used to be able to tolerate soldiers.

[StCptMara]

The Doctor is certainly becoming a bit more rigid as he used to be able to tolerate soldiers.

I am not sure..I think that might very well be carry-over from the end of Smith's Doctor.

However, I think that this episode is the first one where we start to see the REAL Doctor of this
Doctor. He really is coming across a lot like he was inspired by Hartnell's Doctor. This will be a
very cool Doctor, I think.

[Ruger]

I am not sure..I think that might very well be carry-over from the end of Smith's Doctor.

However, I think that this episode is the first one where we start to see the REAL Doctor of this
Doctor. He really is coming across a lot like he was inspired by Hartnell's Doctor. This will be a
very cool Doctor, I think.

When I heard crotchety old Doctor, I immediately thought we were coming full circle to Hartnell...

Ruger

[I am Belch II]

It is a more darker Dr. by far over the other Drs. Very confused with heaven shots with that lady greating people but I'm sure that will be explained.

[worktroll]

Re Missy - I'm going on record as being in the "Mistress" / female Master school of thought.

Re "Into the Dalek" - bit rough on old "swallow this" generic redshirt ... Although I can't help but feel the "Doctor never kills" hype comes out of softened memories of the kid-friendly orginal serials plus fan-hype on the current ones, because while the Doctor may not often kill with his own hands, he's certainly left huge trails of devastation behind him.

[StCptMara]

because while the Doctor may not often kill with his own hands, he's certainly left huge trails of devastation behind him.

There is a reason the Daleks call the Doctor the "Oncoming Storm"...

[Wrangler]

I'm still waiting to see second episode in my end of the world. I hope the on-demand shows it.  My wife is into the show now, something scifi we can both watch!   We just watched the first 4 episodes from season 7 for first time together.

[YingJanshi]

Re Missy - I'm going on record as being in the "Mistress" / female Master school of thought.

Re "Into the Dalek" - bit rough on old "swallow this" generic redshirt ... Although I can't help but feel the "Doctor never kills" hype comes out of softened memories of the kid-friendly orginal serials plus fan-hype on the current ones, because while the Doctor may not often kill with his own hands, he's certainly left huge trails of devastation behind him.

1) I'm almost positive it won't turn out this way; but what if she is a personification of "Death"? And everyone that sacrifices himself/herself/itself for the Doctor...ends up in her "heaven"? That would be quite an army....
Yeah, I know. That sounds like something more out of the Virgin New Adventure line than the current TV show.


2)That has been touched on before. See the interchange between the Doctor and Davros in "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End". Or going even farther back, "Trial of a Time Lord". It has always been a part of the Doctor's character. But I think...from the War Doctor on, it is part of the Doctor that is becoming more and more pronounced.

[Lore]

It is a more darker Dr. by far over the other Drs. Very confused with heaven shots with that lady greating people but I'm sure that will be explained.

Well, the wrap up episodes for this season deal directly with Missy and "Heaven," so I'm assuming any great reveal re: her character and this particular location will be featured then.

...

Re:  the "Into the Dalek," I very much liked that this has now become a recurring theme that individual Daleks see the Doctor as being more Dalek, sometimes, than they themselves can be. Multiple times in the new series, since the Ninth Doctor's-era, he's been told that he'd make a great Dalek. And the festering hatred he carries seems to make it harder for him, as a developing character in this new incarnation, to completely divorce himself from it.

We really need to think on that. Because with each new Doctor, every new incarnation, the weight of literally centuries' worth of hatred against the Daleks would surely be pressing down with greater force on his mind after each regeneration. To the point, perhaps, where he might simply never be able to see anything else but hatred for them. Maybe it's an as yet undocumented negative consequence of regenerations beyond the standard 13 lives. We know it eventually resulted in the Master becoming unstable. What if we're starting to see the same thing with this Doctor, now? What might future incarnations be like? Will his collective hatred for Daleks eventually make the Doctor's mind so unstable that it ultimately consumes him in a rage to destroy everything even remotely associated with these creatures?

Hmmm.

[I am Belch II]

To me the hate of the Dr. to the Daleks is justified to me. They wiped out the homeworld Gallifrey and that would make people very bitter. The Daleks have no compassion or even want to changed their minds on the universe, they want to wipe it all out and is there only plan on the their mind. The Doctor try's to do good in the universe over time and space, but one mans good guy is the bag guy on the other side. If your were harmed by the Dr. or the Timelords in some way you would think the Timelords are the bad guy.

[gyedid]

Re "Into the Dalek" - bit rough on old "swallow this" generic redshirt ... Although I can't help but feel the "Doctor never kills" hype comes out of softened memories of the kid-friendly orginal serials plus fan-hype on the current ones, because while the Doctor may not often kill with his own hands, he's certainly left huge trails of devastation behind him.

Just how many times in the original series did the Doctor actually kill another humanoid?  For me, the only one that comes to mind is the casual hand-off of the live grenade to Graf Vynda-K in "The Ribos Operation".

cheers,

Gabe

[gyedid]

It is a more darker Dr. by far over the other Drs. Very confused with heaven shots with that lady greating people but I'm sure that will be explained.

Is there any way that this new Doctor could be the beginnings of the Valeyard?


cheers,

Gabe

[GreenDragon]

Echoes of "Dalek" where the damaged Dalek said much the same thing to the Doctor.  He rants about how all Daleks should be destroyed, and the injured, helpless, Dalek replies "you would make a good Dalek."
This new Doctor has thrown off the coping mechanisms of Tennant and Smith, and is more like Eccleston.  A darker Doctor, one who might not do the right thing.  Which played out well back then. 
Dalek Commander: "Are you a man or a mouse, Doctor?"
Doctor (tossing away doomsday device that could defeat the Daleks): "Mouse.  Any day."

[ClarkeMarek]

Is there any way that this new Doctor could be the beginnings of the Valeyard?


cheers,

Gabe

I was thinking the same thing.

[Mecha82]

I think I actually like more serious Doctor after seeing him in Into the Dalek.

He was dealing with member of his archenemy race and yet not only he tried to help it but also in the end hoped that he could do some good. It must had been hard for him considering that not only he knows what daleks are like but also he saw what they did to his people. Sure it was Clara who end up keeping that hope alive but still.

[Pa Weasley]

When I heard crotchety old Doctor, I immediately thought we were coming full circle to Hartnell...

Ruger

Especially if he starts gallivanting with not one but two teachers from Coal Hill school.

[StCptMara]

Especially if he starts gallivanting with not one but two teachers from Coal Hill school.

You know...a thought: Maybe that is why he told the other at the end "I don't like soldiers." Not that
he doesn't like soldiers..but he was trying to make an excuse to NOT have a second teacher from the same
school on his Tardis. Kind of makes you wonder if he will finally keep that promise from 10th Planet to return
one day? This WOULD be a good time to do it, after all.

[mdauben]

No comments yet on "Into the Dalek"?  ???

Just watched it last night.  I thought it was very good.  I like the slightly darker tone they seem to be setting with Capaldi.  Its a nice change of pace from Tennant and Smith, much as I enjoyed their runs.   

I'm not quite sold on Coleman yet, though.  She worked okay with Smith but just doesn't seem to have much chemistry with Capaldi (not talking romantic chemistry like some of the previous Doctor/Companion pairs, but just... relationship chemistry).  Maybe its just a deliberate choice on Moffat's part, given the "I don't know this Doctor" angle they introduced in Deep Breath. 

Of course, I didn't really care for Piper until almost the end of her run, although that had as much to do with the character as the actress. 

[mathesont]

Just got to watch "Into the Dalek".  Half way through the episode my wife turned to me and said, "I think this is the first time I have ever been bored watching Doctor Who."  She made it another ten minutes before leaving the room.  I stuck it out the end and best I can say is that this was the worst episode in recent memory.  Some might call it homage, but I think the junk that passes for writers were stealing any ideas they could.  Dialogue was limp, the idea that the Doctor would seal the radiation leak without expecting a return to normal Dalek mindset is absurd and Clara crawling along tubing slapping panels to reawaken memories was just sad.

Next episode better have some witty dialogue and a reasonable story or I will be crossing my fingers that everyone leaves at the end of the season and we can start fresh.

[gyedid]

Amazing how the same episode can provoke such diametrically opposite reactions  ;D

It left me a little cold.  Not because I found it boring, but because of...Capaldi.  I'm still not sold on his interpretation of the Doctor, and I didn't find him to be a hands-down better actor than Tennant or Smith this time.
A little too casual IMO.

But this episode did offer a fair bit of food for thought...


The way the Doctor basically sacrificed that rebel soldier to the robot "antibodies" so the others could get away was pretty dark.  But we've seen that in him before; the Fourth Doctor evinced a similar attitude it on a few occasions.
Whatever the case, it shows we're back to a Doctor with not-quite-human morality.

The Doctor is fundamentally right, IMO--there's no such thing as a "good" (i.e. truly benevolent) Dalek--at least not yet.  Even before the Doctor repaired "Rusty's" radiation leak, its (do Daleks even have sexes/genders?) first impulse in response to its newfound "goodness" was to lash out at those that would destroy all other life i.e. "proper" Daleks.  Basically a Dalek eco-terrorist  ;)  And seeing the deep hate the Doctor carries for the Daleks only seemed to cement that attitude in Rusty's mind.  No Dalek Sec here.  But, surely, somewhere deep inside, the Doctor carries a little spark of satisfaction that this one Dalek could be the vehicle for realizing his darkest dream...?

Clara has come a long way in a remarkably short time.  There's definitely an added maturity to her that wasn't there before.  She sure seems to be moving fast with regard to finding a new boyfriend.  And that slap...totally redefined the relationship between Clara and the Doctor.  He sure won't be able to treat her as "little girl lost" anymore--and I don't think Clara sees herself that way any longer.   (Who else has hit him like that before?  River, Jenny Flint...)

So why wouldn't the Doctor take Journey on as a companion?  Does she remind him too much of himself, especially as the War Doctor?  The whole "you mean well, but I wish you hadn't been a soldier" bit.

I think what I didn't like the most was the revelation that the Dalek shell has an emotion/memory suppressor, similar to what the Cybermen are equipped with.  It detracts from the idea of a creature bred for pathological hatred.  They can be made "good" just by pressing the right buttons, as it were.  (But see above comment)


cheers,

Gabe