’Mech of the Week: DRG-11* Dragon II

[Kotetsu]

’Mech of the Week: DRG-11* Dragon II

The Dragon II. Meant to replace aging Dragons, this design is maligned within the DCMS since it does not keep up the older design’s speed, and also is less suited for the samurai warrior mindset of most of them. That the first Dragon IIs seem to be picked up by political appointees and the ISF liaisons does not help.

I will note that the description does say the DCMS was phasing out Dragons, not necessarily the Grand Dragon.

Now, the Dragon II has its genesis in the Jihad. More to the point, in the devastation that Luthien Armor Works suffered during that conflict. In need of a way to sustain the company’s value, the marketing division came up with revamping the iconic Dragon. Commensurate with this, renewed emphasis on Urizen Kurita II’s self-sufficiency protocols, led to the design being built with only Draconis Combine-manufactured parts. They also managed to cram as much advanced technology as they could onto the design.

The result arrived around 3099. At 65 tons, the DRG-11K Dragon II, is five tons heavier than the original Dragon. Built around an endo-steel chassis, and using light ferro-fibrous armor, the design mounts maximum armor protection in a 9, 30/12, 22/8, 20, 30 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs respectively). A standard Magna 260-rated engine was used, giving the design slightly less speed than its predecessor, and on par with the venerable Crusader. The gyroscope was a compact version. Standard weapons consists of a right arm-mounted ER PPC and a left arm-mounted X-class medium pulse laser. But the main weapon is an Arrow IV artillery system, placed in the left and center torsos. Three tons of ammunition is in the right torso, protected by CASE II. While this is somewhat better than standard CASE, there is still the chance that all three bins could be detonated at once. Ten double-strength heat sinks deal somewhat with the heat load.

After the Nova Cat Rebellion, some of the technology stores seized were used to upgrade some Dragon IIs. Used mostly by nobles and politically-connected warriors, who are loathe to risk themselves in battle, the DRG-11R swaps the PPC and Arrow IV for Clan models, and swaps the X-Pulse for a Clan medium pulse laser. A B-Pod was added, and the engine was upgraded to a 325-rated extralight engine, giving it speeds similar to the original Dragon. MASC was installed for additional bursts of speed.

Using one depends on how close the enemy is. Most of the time, one should not use a Dragon II as a line unit. If one can follow the example of Tai-sa Henrietta Margolis, you should not be too badly off. Using the artillery to sow panic in an opposing force, and pinning them down to be wiped out is always a good plan. Not letting the enemy get too close is also a good idea. The artillery has a minimum of six hexes, within which it cannot be fired. The only exception to that is if you are a hidden unit and pop up to bore-sight upon a target. Your heat dissipation is not that great, either. Firing both the PPC and artillery will put you at five heat, without movement.

Fighting one may start with having your own artillery units to counter-battery fire. Beyond that, your choices are having lots of firepower you can send down range to knock out your opponent, or having units fast enough to get behind him and mess him up that way. If you are willing to try targeting locations, aim for the right torso. Both variants have three tons of artillery ammunition stored there. Even with the CASE II, removing that location will take out the Dragon II’s two big weapons (since the PPC is in the right arm). And the -11R uses an Inner Sphere extralight engine.

While not one of my favorites (I find I take more after the samurai warrior way of thinking), the Dragon II can be an effective weapons-platform. However, I am unsure about phasing out a fast cavalry design for a fire-support/enemy suppression design. Then again, since a new Grand Dragon variant has premiered around the same time or later, it may just be the original Dragons that are being phased out.

[Fat Guy]

Patriot with a new set of clothes.




Looks cool though.

[JadeHellbringer]

Patriot with a new set of clothes.




Looks cool though.

The Patriot worked well enough that it's not a knock on the Dragon II to ape on it. Both are great Mechs for the job.

Hmmm... makes me wonder if the Patriot's alternate model with the LBX would be a fun refit for a Dragon II, while I'm at it. I digress though.

Great Mech- like the original, the more you have working in a group, the scarier they get. One is a nuisance- four is a problem. A company, that's just not right.

[GreekFire]

I feel like the Dragon II would have been better served with CASE rather than CASE II. You already have a standard engine, so you can still (try) to retreat if the ammo blows, and the ammo all by its lonesome in the Right Torso makes me reaaally nervous 'bout the pilot being turned into puddin'.

Otherwise, it really does feel like another play on the Patriot. I'm not sure which one I like better; on one hand, the Dragon II is loads more survivable, but on the other, the Patriot has TAG and a headcapper. Hmmm...gotta think about it.

[SCC]

CASE II means that you only lose a single ton of ammo, not all three, and the location isn't destroyed. With the CASE II you are only likely to lose a single ton of ammo, with normal CASE you lose both the the A4's ammo and the ER PPC, leaving you with only the X-Pulse laser

[blitzy]

I sorta like this mech.  It kinda grows on you.  I placed one in a fire support lance and it does quite well for itself, even when forced into close in fighting.  This mech suffers from the same sort of thing (in universe) you ran into with Naga style units in the clans, but in lances of say three with a decent hitter forth mech you could have a scary lance, maybe more so if they added C3 support into the mix.

[False Son]

Using one depends on how close the enemy is. Most of the time, one should not use a Dragon II as a line unit.

I disagree with this sentament.  The sheer flexibility of the Arrow IV system allows the Dragon II to take on the high powered battle armor, WiGEs and fast reflective armored mechs of the 32nd century.  A lance of Dragon IIs has the tools to smash any hardened target with homing rounds, melt battle armor, crit vehicles, lay down huge curtains of smoke or even hit airborne targets.  One Dragon II is ok, but they get better as you add more, especially when they can cover each other's minimum range.

But yeah, basically a Patriot.

[GreekFire]

CASE II means that you only lose a single ton of ammo, not all three, and the location isn't destroyed. With the CASE II you are only likely to lose a single ton of ammo, with normal CASE you lose both the the A4's ammo and the ER PPC, leaving you with only the X-Pulse laser

I know how CASE II works. I really don't know where in my post I suggested that I didn't.

My problem: the right torso *only* has ammo in it. If there's a crit, the ammo blows. With a need for a roll of 8+ to avoid another crit, there's a non-negligible chance of another ammo crit happening. Combine that with even one pilot hit from a prior head hit or tumble, and things start getting a bit scary for the MechWarrior. The reassuring thing here is that Arrow-IV ammo is pretty easy to burn through, but still...3+ crits of ammo in one location combined with CASE II always makes me fidgety.

[Scotty]

A total of 15 shots, and you can begin firing that weapon literally eight or ten times further out than any other weapon on your mobile assets.  I'm not worried about that torso one bit.  If anything, I'm more worried about running chronically short of ammunition while I initiate a rolling barrage of Arrow IV on entrenched targets as my Dragon II company advances.

[JadeHellbringer]

A total of 15 shots, and you can begin firing that weapon literally eight or ten times further out than any other weapon on your mobile assets.  I'm not worried about that torso one bit.  If anything, I'm more worried about running chronically short of ammunition while I initiate a rolling barrage of Arrow IV on entrenched targets as my Dragon II company advances.

Ding. He wins.

By the time you start taking hits enough to worry about ammo explosions, you've used a good portion anyway because you outrange most of the opposition. Very good point! You win a cookie!  O0

[False Son]

1 Cluster
1 Homing
1 Inferno.


Done.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

A total of 15 shots, and you can begin firing that weapon literally eight or ten times further out than any other weapon on your mobile assets.  I'm not worried about that torso one bit.  If anything, I'm more worried about running chronically short of ammunition while I initiate a rolling barrage of Arrow IV on entrenched targets as my Dragon II company advances.

Yeah, but unless you work up some rules to cover pre-game barrages, it's a meaningless advantage once everyone is in the playing area.

Well, nearly meaningless, unless your playing area is something on the order of 8 or 10 mapsheets per side.

[GreekFire]

OK, so if you start firing at eight or ten times further out than any other weapon, why do you need the CASE II? You only have 15 shots, better to spend the half-ton somewhere else.

I've got the feeling that I'm starting to sound pedantic..  :-\

[Scotty]

I've got the feeling that I'm starting to sound pedantic..  :-\

Just a little bit. O0

CASE II is a miraculous, wondrous invention and I for one would not protest if it were an automatic 4-ton deduction from every 'Mech's payload to cover literally every location that you typically find ammunition in.

[JadeHellbringer]

OK, so if you start firing at eight or ten times further out than any other weapon, why do you need the CASE II? You only have 15 shots, better to spend the half-ton somewhere else.

I've got the feeling that I'm starting to sound pedantic..  :-\

Nah, that's still a worth half-ton. Sometimes things go pear-shaped on your plans, after all (airstrikes, for example), and it's good to have used that weight on something that will keep your Mech salvageable in case something like that happens.

Besides, what would you use that half ton on? A small laser? Armor? I can't think of anything that compares with making an ammo explosion a non-issue the way CASE II does compared to standard CASE.

[SCC]

Ah, Hellbie, this is an IS 'Mech, the CASE II weighs a full ton.

And GreekFire, which would you prefer a ~50% of another ammo explosion, or losing 2/3 of you weapons to a single lucky hit?

[GreekFire]

It's true that I can't think of anything else that I'd want to throw in there for a half ton, and good arguments were made for the Dragon II running low on ammo before it becomes an issue. The CASE II works. O0

And SCC - to be frank, I'd be willing to lose 2/3rds of my weapons most of the time. I absolutely love CASE II when it's protecting one ton of ammo - two tops - but like I said, 3 or more and I start fearing for my pilots (unless the torso is seriously critpacked). It's veeery easy to have one ammo crit with CASE II lead to another, which knocks the pilots out...then the 'Mech falls, you're at 5 hits and at the mercy of a stray shot to the cockpit or another ammo explosion. I've seen it happen multiple times, and I try to keep my pilots alive during any sort of campaign play so...yeah.

Example of a 'Mech I'm OK with: the Scarecrow. Super crit-packed, one ton of ammo, CASE II. No problems there.
Example of a 'Mech I'm not OK with: the Uraeus. With 4 tons of ammo and only one other crit in that torso, it's a literal deathtrap. If the Right Torso gets opened up, you better get out of there fast because an LB-X burst or a volley of SRMs can easily straight up kill you.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Ah, Hellbie, this is an IS 'Mech, the CASE II weighs a full ton.

Only half a ton more than regular CASE, and the point about superiority entirely stands.

[JadeHellbringer]

Ah, Hellbie, this is an IS 'Mech, the CASE II weighs a full ton.

And GreekFire, which would you prefer a ~50% of another ammo explosion, or losing 2/3 of you weapons to a single lucky hit?

You have to read the whole post instead of nitpicking details. We're discussing whether it's worth the extra half ton COMPARED TO STANDARD CASE.

[Weirdo]

You have to read the whole post

Bah, this is the internet! Nobody reads anything on these forums! ;D

But since I don't like to derail threads because of irrelevant details... ;)

Regarding the Dragon II, I'll say again what I said in the Dragon thread: It's not an artillery 'mech. It's a line-of-battle 'mech that happens to have a big honking AE weapon, and can choose to massively outrange almost everything else.

[Wrangler]

In a campaign setting, where you got either doing a scenario with full on choices of weapons from TacOps, this a fine machine to have in battlefields of the 32nd Century.

Only thing is, this is not really a pickup game machine or tourment one.  I'm not trying smack the design down, but not allot people I run into like having artillery being flung around.   

This is certainlly more a fire-support design if anything, but Dragons have traditionally either been cavalry design or a long-range fighter or both. 

Dragon II is good Support unit, but i don't feel its really that flexible on the battlefield if things get too close for comfort which i find they do usually in typical Battletech.

[Fat Guy]

You know what the sad thing is?  Even if you treat the Arrow IV system as nothing but dead weight, the DRG-11R is still a better BattleMech than most of the Dragons/Grand Dragons we've been given so far.    :'(

[Kotetsu]

See, I have a slightly different take based on the games I've played. Any time any BattleMech with artillery shows up on the field, EVERYTHING that can shoot at it does. Including ignoring the opposing guy's aerospace units to strike it without care for the -3 you give the other fighters...

[Scotty]

If you have an artillery unit suffering direct fire from an enemy unit, there is a very simple solution:  Duck behind a hill, and lob artillery over it until he stops moving or goes away.  Play ring around the rosie at your leisure.

Is it an unbeatable strategy?  Of course not.  Does it give you a fantastic opportunity to shoot his 'Mechs while he has to pick between ignoring everything else to get the arty, or ignore the arty and get flattened by repeated (preferably homing) shells from beyond LOS?  Absolutely.

Artillery is not a game breaker.  Artillery doesn't even need to be powerful.  What artillery does, and what Weirdo and Hellbie and I love them for, is they give you options heaped on options heaped on options for how to fight.

[Wrangler]

Well, on the upside the Dragon II can be used as heavy duty anti-aircraft battery as well against those pesky Aerospace fighters doing straffing runs and strikes.   Anti-Aerospace Arrows are pretty nasty.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Not a fan of the Dragon II, given that:

1) It duplicates the O-Bakemono's artillery support role but more poorly.  (But maybe O-Bakemono production was lost during the Jihad.)

2) Artillery really belong on fragile tanks in the rear echelon.  More durable mechs should be dedicated to the more dangerous front line roles.

3) The Dragon/Grand Dragon is in desperate need of an effective update in its cavalry role to keep it current.  (Love to see a decently armored, TSM/supercharger-equipped DRG hitting 7/11 or 8/12 with a peeper, some MMLs, and a laser array.)

4) As already mentioned, it's Patriot retread, which is arguably a waste of precious TRO and RS pagecounts.

5) Like the Patriot,  the time-of-flight delay associated with its main weapon and the limited mass left for its secondary weapons makes it ineffective on the front line.

I also have a hard time buying the it's-effective-in-numbers argument.  Even Stingers and Wasps are effective in high enough numbers.

My 2 C-bills... YMMV.

[Wrangler]

@Natasha Kerensky

From last i saw, the O-Bakemono was produced on Luthern prior to the Black Dragon's trashing and nuking the LAW. 

Patriot is produced on the other side of the Inner Sphere, with Regulans hording its production. 

[False Son]

2) Artillery really belong on fragile tanks in the rear echelon.  More durable mechs should be dedicated to the more dangerous front line roles.

A mech is a better artillery platform for direct fire artillery.  The height difference allows them to target hexes that vehicles cannot.  While the Dragon II has an Arrow IV system it should not be mistaken for being a dedicated artillery platform.  It is a battlemech with an Arrow IV.  And, I would argue the Dragon II is better for direct fire artillery than indirect.  Using offboard artillery to try and hit battle armor or hovercraft is a pain.  Direct fire solves them dead.

3) The Dragon/Grand Dragon is in desperate need of an effective update in its cavalry role to keep it current.  (Love to see a decently armored, TSM/supercharger-equipped DRG hitting 7/11 or 8/12 with a peeper, some MMLs, and a laser array.)

No, it doesn't.  The DCMS is bursting at the seems with heavy cavalry mechs.  What they desperately need is something to serve line duty.  Since the Dragon was surpassed by Maelstroms, Ninja-Tos, No-Dachis, Grand Dragons, Thunderbolts and Rokurabukbis, the last thing the Dragon needs to do is get in line behind those superior machines. 

I'd also point out the Shiro as another attempt to add some command and control element to the DCMS heavy ranks.  The Dragon II's greatest strength is being able to control portions of the battlefield through the multiple munition types of the A4.

4) As already mentioned, it's Patriot retread, which is arguably a waste of precious TRO and RS pagecounts.

It focuses less on hitting power (the Patriots HPPC doesn't mix well with the A4) and has better equipment.  I'd take the Dragon II over the Patriot.  It dies less and has more flexibility.

5) Like the Patriot,  the time-of-flight delay associated with its main weapon and the limited mass left for its secondary weapons makes it ineffective on the front line.

There is no flight time delay if the A4 is used directly, between 7 and 17 hexes.  The Patriot lacks a weapon over 18 hexes, and the 7 hex minimum of the A4 doesn't gel with the 6/12/18 range bracket of the HPPC.

[O5P_Ghost]

At first I didn't like it, as it was not a Dragon. But this is the reboot and I like it for its reboot value not what it was. For an upgrade GD we have the 10K. We also have Hitotsume Kozo, Dragonfires, No-Daichis, Clan Heavy chassis et. al

They work well both as part of a fire support lance, three Orichis and a Dragon II work well together (if part of a company). I'd also like to see a company of Dragon IIs attached to each regiment as a mobile arty unit.

I'd like to see a bodyguard type mixed in with the Dragon II company. I would keep the D2 chassis and replace the A4 with either a LB20x (or SB Guass to make if different from the Regulan thing), cERPPC and a Tag. Call it a D2B. Three stock Dragon II's and a Dragon IIB in a lance. Imagine the suprise when you send in your flankers (vtol or jumpers) and get a face full of PPC, Iron slivers and taged for three A4 rockets.

I also like the idea of using lances of Dragon IIs as mobile AA.

[False Son]

We also have Hitotsume Kozo

Right, that.  Not Rokurokubis.  The Japanese names are sometimes a bit tricky.

They work well both as part of a fire support lance, three Orichis and a Dragon II work well together (if part of a company). I'd also like to see a company of Dragon IIs attached to each regiment as a mobile arty unit.

I'd like to see a bodyguard type mixed in with the Dragon II company. I would keep the D2 chassis and replace the A4 with either a LB20x (or SB Guass to make if different from the Regulan thing), cERPPC and a Tag. Call it a D2B. Three stock Dragon II's and a Dragon IIB in a lance. Imagine the suprise when you send in your flankers (vtol or jumpers) and get a face full of PPC, Iron slivers and taged for three A4 rockets.

I also like the idea of using lances of Dragon IIs as mobile AA.

The fun for me is going "goodbye, trees"  with a combination of HE and ERPPC.  Or, I can set all the trees on fire with inferno, melt battle armor and cause crits to assault tanks or blast the strongest assuault mechs down to size with cluster.  Yeah, ant-air is decent too.  But, for me, the real advantage of this mech deployed on large scale is being able to stop the growing tide of rediculous hovercraft, speedy mechs like Ebony or Wulfen, and slaughter battle armor without having to plan for flight times.  I can switch out to fight what I want, when I want.  The Dragon II might not be good at throwing A4 Homing (you can get more of them cheaper with a Demolisher) but it can use homing if it is really needed.  I call this win-win.  My biggest complaint isn't the shortage of secondary weapons.  It's the limited number of A4 tons.