Tell me about the Dire wolf (AKA Daishi)

[solmanian]

Just how rare is this mech? It was suppose to be rare even for clanners, so I'd imagine it even rarer for spheroids. Most of his factories were back at the homeworlds, though I think CWX manufactured it at some point. And yet IS big shots seems to have no problem getting their hands on it. I doubt the clans fielded entire assault trinaries made of Daishis on operations. Hack, MW4 ended with a Daishi-on-Daishi duel between two spheroid nobles...

[Dreyf]

Wolf's Dragoons manufactured them on Outreach.  That is where the IS big shots, assuming you are referring to Hohiro and Victor, got them after the Outreach Conference during the lull after ilKhan Showers' death.  It appears there were at least three factories in the homeworlds, although we don't know output.

[martian]

Just how rare is this mech? It was suppose to be rare even for clanners, so I'd imagine it even rarer for spheroids. Most of his factories were back at the homeworlds, though I think CWX manufactured it at some point. And yet IS big shots seems to have no problem getting their hands on it. I doubt the clans fielded entire assault trinaries made of Daishis on operations.

It really depends on era and location (3050 vs. 3080; IS vs. Homeworlds).

Hack, MW4 ended with a Daishi-on-Daishi duel between two spheroid nobles...

1) This game wasn't a pinnacle of BattleTech accuracy.

2) In this particular case, the in-game/in-universe reasoning was quite logical:
a) Ian's Daishi was probably taken from that secret cache of Clan equipment (Duke Dresari brought salvaged Clan 'Mechs and equipment from the Clan Wars) or it was salvaged Vanda Castro's machine.
b) I can't remember if William Dresari was in the Clan War too (I know that Captain Burke was), so perhaps he brought his salvaged 'Mech with him. Or perhaps Lord Roland gifted him this Daishi to gain his favour and to persuade him to act as Steiner figurehead.

[Archangel]

The Dire Wolf was relatively rare due to it being a relatively new design, cost and limited manufacturers.  It was most common among Clan Wolf and Clan Smoke Jaguar, the two Clans that manufactured the Dire Wolf.  Other Clans either traded, captured (as isorla) or salvaged theirs.  As far as I can tell there was only two factories:  one on Strana Mechty (Clan Wolf) and one on Huntress (Smoke Jaguars).  The one on Huntress was razed in 3060.  The Dragoon factory on Outreach started production in the late 3040s but the output was likely limited.  With a few exceptions the Dragoons likely maintained exclusive control over all their ClanTech production.

[SteveRestless]

Well, the three factory locations have been covered already, but there's a few loose ends.

The chassis itsself, is pretty plain. Standard Structure, Standard Armor, the 300XL's a little exotic, and it's got an Omnimech Gyro... but its really not too demanding on the tech base to build the base mech, if you can get clan 300 XL's or shop em up yourself. We even had the Hauptmann for a bit, as a poor man's Dire Wolf substitute. and then from 3090ish and onwards, we have the Tomahawk, a slightly more exotic cousin of the Dire Wolf. There's also the odd case of the Night Wolf. Now, you might be asking, Steve, what the heck does the Night Wolf have to do with this? Well, if you were looking to build a Dire Wolf past its factory-extinction, and you could get that standard structure fabbed, the Night Wolf is using the same electronics packages. Tundra Wolf uses the same reactor.

Wolves own Solaris. VEST is probably one of the best groups you could ask for if you wanted to cobble a mech together. All told, if you can get Keystone to fab you a Standard Structure Materials version of the Tomahawk II Chassis, drop in a Tundra Wolf's 300 XL, a Night Wolf's Electronics, a Tomahawk II's Omni Gyro, and Standard Armor from anywhere you please, it might be a little quirky, but there's your 3145 Dire Wolf, presuming you have the clout to see that all come together. But, if you don't, don't worry. the Tomahawk II's an off the shelf replacement for the dire wolf's role. a worthy successor.

[Dreyf]

As far as I can tell there was only two factories:  one on Strana Mechty (Clan Wolf) and one on Huntress (Smoke Jaguars).  The one on Huntress was razed in 3060.

WoR mentions another factory, IIRC on Paxon.

[Deadborder]

The post-Jihad VEST is a very different beast from the pre-Jihad one. Its now more focused on mass-production of standardized, battlefield 'Mechs then individually building arena ones. Almost all of the Solaris 'Mechs are extinct in the post-Jihad era anyway.

With that being said, the Tomahawk II is a superior design in every way.

Using MUL as a guideline, it seems that Daishi numbers crashed hard in the Jihad, presumably largely due to the fact that all the production lines were in the homeworlds or destroyed (or both). Plus, to be fair, it was never a terribly common 'Mech to begin with and, like the Masakari, suffered through an extinction-level event of its primary user.

Post-Jihad, the largest single user of the design might be the DCMS through Jaguar salvage.

[Archangel]

Post-Jihad, the largest single user of the design might be the DCMS through Jaguar salvage.

Unlikely.  The salvage from Operation Bulldog was split between the various participants and, like all the IS factions, they suffered crippling losses in the Jihad especially among their elite units who would have been assigned Dire Wolves.  Even if they weren't destroyed, battlefield damage and a limited supply of parts would have led to them sidelined and either stripped of parts or mothballed.

[Deadborder]

Unlikely.  The salvage from Operation Bulldog was split between the various participants and, like all the IS factions, they suffered crippling losses in the Jihad especially among their elite units who would have been assigned Dire Wolves.  Even if they weren't destroyed, battlefield damage and a limited supply of parts would have led to them sidelined and either stripped of parts or mothballed.

MUL has the DCMS as the last IS user of the 'Mech post-Jihad. Most Clans don't even have it any more.

[cold1]

Post-Jihad, the largest single user of the design might be the DCMS through Jaguar salvage.

I'm going to say all the homeworld clans have them.  At least they are on the RATs.  And they have the factories... or ruins there of.

[Deadborder]

Also true; I should have said largest remaining user in the IS.

[glitterboy2098]

the only IS users to speak of in the fiction are:
Hohiro Kurita = won the right to pilot one in the trial of position on outreach.
Victor Davion = as above, though he came in third in the rankings (Kai got first place, but declined the honor in favor of keeping Yen Lo Wang)
Morgan Hasek-Davion = had one during Op:serpent. not sure where he got it, probably battlefield salvage.
Andrew Redburn (IIRC) = Piloted Morgan's mech after Morgan's death.

[Diablo48]

One thing to bear in mind about big names riding the Dire Wolf is that a lot of that is their clout in action.  As a 100 ton Clan OmniMech, the Dire Wolf is without a doubt the single greatest killing machine made by man until the introduction of the Tomahawk, so it makes sense that many high level commanders would grab the first Dire Wolf salvaged by their forces and that politicians would offer them to other critical individuals as a political gesture.  Basically, if there is a Dire Wolf in a formation, it is probably carrying the most important person there.

[Archangel]

MUL has the DCMS as the last IS user of the 'Mech post-Jihad. Most Clans don't even have it any more.

That simply means that they field them in significant number not that they necessarily field more than the Wolves or Diamond Sharks.  You might as well say that the CCAF fields more Thor IIs than the Jade Falcons simply because they have the larger military.

[solmanian]

That also depends on your definition of "significant". The MUL doesn't differentiate between those that have a handful and those that have scores of it.

[cold1]

IS: Dire Wolf is a prize to behold, a status symbol, it goes to noble mech warriors and commanders
Clans: Dire Wolf is an assault mech, the best warriors in Assault formations win the right to run them

It depends on the clan too.  You do not see a great many khans running Dire Wolves.  Smart clan commanders take the few they have and put them in stars where they are well supported and can be utilized appropriately.

[solmanian]

I get the impression that for clan commanders they prefer a heavy chassis, with assault mechs treated as specialist units for actual assaults. In the IS assaults are a status symbol, and the commander of the outfit will usually appropriate the biggest, most advanced, most expensive machine, even if he has no intention of actually being on the front line.

[cold1]

I get the impression that for clan commanders they prefer a heavy chassis, with assault mechs treated as specialist units for actual assaults. In the IS assaults are a status symbol, and the commander of the outfit will usually appropriate the biggest, most advanced, most expensive machine, even if he has no intention of actually being on the front line.

This seems pretty accurate.  The 3 most recent khan rides I can think of are Alaric (Savage Wolf), Stanislov N'buta (Night Gyr), and Brett Andrews (Viper).

The heavy is really the true status symbol of the clans though many warriors prefer something else. 

I've always envisioned there would be some warriors who were just better skilled at piloting assaults.  Maybe they just had a better feel for moving a larger machine and made the mech more agile than other pilots.  Based on what we know about controlling a mech, it seems some warriors would simply fit a certain weight, or chassis better.

The Dire Wolf is probably less rare in the 3055-3075 period than we think.  It's in full production at multiple facilities.  There are probably a good deal more Mad Dogs running around, but I doubt it's a rare sight in certain clans.  My guess is if you were to encounter a Wolf or Falcon assault cluster they would have a few.

I filled out an entire Adder assault cluster circa 3105 and there are two Dire Wolves out of 5 trinaries.  There are more of just about everything else.

[Archangel]

That also depends on your definition of "significant". The MUL doesn't differentiate between those that have a handful and those that have scores of it.

My point exactly.  Deadborder stated that the DC was the largest single user in the IS of the Dire Wolf.  The only justification given is that they are the largest faction in the IS to have the listed in MUL.

As far as I am concerned, being listed for a faction simply mean that the numbers fielded are significant enough to be noticeable with no upper limit given (although I doubt anybody believes that they field more Dire Wolves than the total number of Mechs fielded by the entire DCMS   ;)).

[solmanian]

My problem is with the lower limit. Lets that 3145 DCMS has 4000ish battlemechs, including a dozen Daishi. Yes, you may consider that the Daishi is "available" to the DCMS; but in reality they're unlikely to ever be seen on the battlefield.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

My problem is with the lower limit. Lets that 3145 DCMS has 4000ish battlemechs, including a dozen Daishi. Yes, you may consider that the Daishi is "available" to the DCMS; but in reality they're unlikely to ever be seen on the battlefield.

There hasn't been a newly manufactured Daishi introduced into the Inner Sphere for the past what, 75+ years as of 3145?

A number like a dozen Daishis has got to be closer to the upper limit for any faction (homeworld clans excluded) than the outlier of a bottom floor, barely made it as 'Available'.

I think the lower limit to count for 'Availability' is less of an issue than the distinction between 'available' and 'extinct'.

[martian]

There hasn't been a newly manufactured Daishi introduced into the Inner Sphere for the past what, 75+ years as of 3145?

Sorry, but as far as I know we have almost no data for 'mech production after 3080 or 3085 ...

[Deadborder]

While true, there's no accounting for post-3079 'Mech production in the IS, the Diashi is one of those cases where it would appear that there's nobody producing it after the Jihad. The only line established for it in the IS was nuked at the start of the Jihad, and none of the IS clans moved or duplicated lines for it in the Inner Sphere. It's not in production anywhere in 3079, and there was little indication of anyone having the specs/blueprints/equipment/etc to bring it back.

Given that the Tomahawk II was in production by the 3080s, it's fair to say that the Wolves have no need to bring it back to production. The Exiles lack Omni production capability (outside of the Arctic Wolf II), are starved for access to Clantech and also produce the Hellstar, which again removes both capacity and need.

Personally I suspect that there's probably no more then a few dozen Diashis left by 3145; it was never a common design and no new ones would have appeared in the IS after 3067 or so.

[Wrangler]

Well, prior to all this, Daishi started appearing in the MWDA near the end of the game's line existence. It was featured at  least in one book, Masters of War, where Alaric's compeditor was piloting one that Wolf Hunters took down during their defense of Prefecture IX in 3137. 

In truth, only reason why i suspect they hadn't been seen yet was they started didn't start appearing in the original Click version of the game much later in franchise's lifespan. Basically it hadn't been introduced into it until late in the "Game".  It started showing up in the Battleforce and Solaris releases. The fig itself wasn't as nice looking as the Battletech version which appeared on the last of the FedCom Civil War novels.

[martian]

The fact is that we simply don't know. The last books describing the production of 'Mechs were Field Reports (3079) and Field Manual: 3085 (3085).

Wars of the Republic Era and ER:3145 have no industrial overview, TRO3145 described new 'Mechs and RS:3145NTNU listed only new variants.
Field Manual: 3145 includes only a cursory overview of industrial strength of all IS clans.

How I see it, if someone manufactures the Daishi (or perhaps Daishi II) - or manufactured it let's say between 3090 and 3130 - there is no source from we could know it.
Until the last week we had no details (who produces it, where and why) when it came to Cave Lion - only a few WizKids minis.

And honestly, that's all what we have for WizKids Daishi.

[cold1]

I think it's probably out of production in the IS.  Wizkids brought the mini in to try and sell more stuff because it was popular.  It can always be explained as, there were a lot of them and they are hard to totally destroy.  Parts are abundant, etc.

It is not an easy mech to totally kill, mission kill maybe.  With the Foxes running around rebuilding or repairing them is probably not overly complicated.  It might be expensive, but dude, it's a freak'n Dire Wolf.  Nobody short of a Tomahawk II pilot wants any of that.

In 3145 rolling in a Dire Wolf is like rolling in a bada$$ 60's muscle car today.  It's old and expensive to keep up, but it's a monster and its got major style points.

[Stormlion1]

Homeworlds wise its not listed as one of the mechs being phased out so there is a good bet the factory's survived the WoR. Even the RAT for the Blood Spirits had a chance for a Dire Wolf to be in there formations so it wasn't as uncommon as some may think if they could get there hands on a few. Probably traded with the Diamond Sharks to get them though or through rare trials on Strana Mechty. As for the Inner Sphere well I could see the WiE producing a few a year and once the Wolf Dragoons showed up on Ark Royal they may have increased that output a bit to help rearm but they would still be rare in the inner Sphere outside the Inner Sphere Clans and the Wolf Dragoons, WiE, and maybe the Kell Hounds and the rare few in House hands.

Mech wise, its a killer. Not heat efficient in any way, but a killer. If they had only squeezed in a few more Heat sinks so they could fire all four ER Large Lasers at once without heating up I would have been happier with the Prime version of the mech. But once your in Medium Range your going to know your in a fight and its going to be a slaughter.

[Archangel]

Homeworlds wise its not listed as one of the mechs being phased out so there is a good bet the factory's survived the WoR.

Yeah but it is also not clear what kind of 'havoc' the WoR played with its production either (see first sentence on 'Discarded Tools of War' page).  Perhaps all factories actually were destroyed and they had to assign its production to a different factory.  Or perhaps one of the Clans (or maybe even the Society) scavenged the original facility for the production equipment and the Clans recovered the production equipment and directed it to a new production facility.  Perhaps the factory was located in one of the enclaves that had been contaminated, needed to be abandoned while the conflict was raging and later was cleaned up and the facility repaired such as the CC and SL did on Marshall (the success of which provided both Clans with a limited supply of Mist Lynx and Broadsword DropShips-WoRS, p8).  So many possibilities.

[cold1]

If its not on the list from WoRS it's in production somewhere in the homeworlds.

[Urban Kufahl]

If its not on the list from WoRS it's in production somewhere in the homeworlds.

I guess we are still using "someones" i have not the RAT close to me but if you check the Coyote assault you would probably find it.