Author Topic: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer  (Read 14231 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« on: 21 April 2014, 12:55:07 »


Let's start with a history lesson, before we go any further here. In our beloved games' early days, the AC-20 was simply the most powerful weapon system available. Even the fearsome Overlord dropship had them as its most powerful gun. The problem was, it was a very heavy weapon- but short ranged as well. This meant that usually the units that could carry the beast were large- and slow. The result was that while the Hunchback, Demolisher, etc. were extremely powerful, they had a hell of a time getting those guns into range in a running battle. But... there was an option- the Saladin. Little more than a huge cannon on a hover skirt, the Saladin combined a massive punch with barely adequate armor and high speed- able to pace a Locust, no easy feat back then. Most flanking units in those days packed weapons like SRMs, small LRM racks, maybe an AC-5... nothing to ignore for long, but nothing ridiculous. But the Saladin? Oh god. A quick little roller skate slashing around the field hitting for twenty points? It was ridiculous in its day- and in general, it was a high priority to destroy. Saladins were all-in weapons- either it gains glory through a big kill, or it dies because it's too dangerous to allow to survive.

Hmmm... sounds like the kind of thing a certain band of genetic-bred idiots from a long, long way away would be interested, doesn't it?

And yet, as we look into Clan history leading up to the Jihad, there's no analogy to the Saladin. We see units that are roughly comparable in role to Inner Sphere types- scouts, MBTs, fire support units, etc.- but even the mighty Epona doesn't really have a configuration that compares to the 'victory or death' thinking of the Saladin. That seems almost impossible to believe, when you really stop to think about it, doesn't it? Clan tank crews must have found the Saladin fascinating when they began seeing reports from the Inner Sphere front lines in 3050. So, with that history lesson in mind, it really was only a matter of time before the Clans came up with a 'Saladin IIC'. It is again a surprise, then, that it took wasn't until the Jihad's fires flared that such a unit was built... by a Clan no longer welcome in their people's ranks, and through the assistance of a corporation synonymous with one of the Great Houses. Let's look into the SM1 Tank Destroyer and see what the Nova Cats came up with here.

The SM1 is built by Luthien Armor Works' facility on Irece, a combination of Clan elegance and Inner Sphere know-how. We'll start with sawing it in half and seeing what makes it tick, as usual- and we notice something funny when we saw the 50-ton SM1 in half. They look identical... cockpits on both sides. I'm sure there's a really good reason for this, allowing the unit to continue operating if one side gets damaged, but... it's an odd thing, to say the least. Those cockpits are big fishbowl-style setups that would make an unseen Battlemaster pilot wistful, but we're assured that they're very tough, able to absorb plenty of damage. Still... never mind, let's get to work on that engine. A 165-class fusion drive puts this thing up to an 8/12 movement curve, same as its spiritual parent, the Saladin. The SM1 is said to be extremely easy to build and maintain, and this may explain the decision to avoid using an XL engine. Either way, the SM1 is plenty quick enough to move quickly to bring its weapons to bear, and keep its movement modifiers up high enough to keep it from taking hits.

Seven and a half tons of armor make for a great layer of defense for an SM1, particularly with that speed keeping many weapons from hitting in the first place. Pulling our old test cannon out, we find that it has a much tougher time than on most hovercraft. A whopping 43 points of frontal armor makes for a better hull than many MBTs can claim- on a fast-attack unit! The sides are similarly tough, with 29 points. The rear has a thinner 19 points, but that's still good by hover standards. The turret has a good 24 points as well, despite being of questionable use. One can only wish that those 24 points could be moved to somewhere else by deletion of that silly turret, but more on that later on. Suffice to say, this is one tough cookie to kill.

There's an old rule in Battletech- 'speed, armor, firepower. Pick two'. And yet, occasionally you meet a unit that manages to put all three together into one extremely dangerous package- the Mad Cat, for example. And here we are, looking at another one. We know it's fast, we know it's tough... and the guns are every bit as impressive. LAW-Irece wanted to make a splash with this thing, and raw muscle is always a good way to get the Clan's attention. Success. The SM1 is literally built around a massive Ultra AC-20, today's 'ultimate nasty' weapon system in a mirror of the Saladin. If you need an explanation of why an 8/12, heavily armored Ultra AC-20 would be a good thing, I welcome you to Battletech for the first time- trust me, this is a beast. Ignoring it means that it can put a pair of massive 20-point hits into a unit's rear, something it rarely needs to do twice. But focusing on it means ignoring whatever the rest of the force it came with brought. Quite the choice to make- the fact that the Clans usually deploy vehicles in pairs makes it even more unpleasant to consider. The gun is supplied by a cavernous six-ton ammunition bin, very unlike the usual Clan way of thinking- this means an SM1 can fire at double-rate fifteen times, almost unheard of. Long deployments are no problem here, and in a quicker battle an SM1 can afford to take a few wild shots that most vehicles wouldn't risk the ammo use on. The risk of jamming the gun is very real, of course- and any SM1 that has its main gun get disabled needs to leave, because the backup weaponry is... well, not much. In the only real departure from the Saladin formula, a small turret sits atop the portside cockpit, packing four light machine guns. This allows us to deal with infantry and find a few crits after the cannon opens a location, but shouldn't be relied on for much- and again, losing that turret and fixing the guns forward would allow for better armor distribution.

There are a few variants to discuss. The first is a pretty simple one- remove the Ultra for an LB-20 X. This is arguably a better idea than the original, allowing the SM1a (no real name for this thing, guys? Really?) to make enemy vehicles and aircraft utterly miserable. Pairing a point of these with a point of the originals is just sick and wrong, and a good way to never be invited back to your group's games. The only other changes other than the cannon swap are the deletion of one ton of ammo to allow the LMGs to be mounted into an array, and adding a light active probe. Since that still leaves five tons of ammunition to swap between, that's a pretty good upgrade.

The second variant has proven unpopular- the big gun becomes a Gauss rifle, in a way emulating the Capellan Regulator... except without a turret for the gun, and not as fast. Not often you see a Clan unit pale in comparison to a competitor from the Inner Sphere, but... if you can pick between them, take Regulators. It's not all bad news though- a handy medium pulse laser gets added to the mix as well, nothing to sneeze at.This came at the cost of two tons of ammunition, leaving it with a 'mere' 32 shots. This is a very useable vehicle- just not compared to the other two variants.

Finally, there's a mention of an Arrow IV version being looked at- while no record sheet exists for this, it's pretty easy to look at the 3145 Hadur and feel like there's something awfully familiar about that unit...

SM1s were a popular unit in several of the armies early on in Mechwarrior: Dark Age, appearing in the debut set for that game, and as Catalyst works in that era it appears that these units are popular in Nova Cat and Draconis service. In the 3145 era, it stands to reason that the unit has been sold heavily to other realms, explaining its widespread use. Even with the Clan that spawned it having been destroyed, it's safe to assume that these simple but brutal craft have a long future ahead of them in the wars that we love so much. Mercenaries in particular should love this thing- it's not all that expensive, but brings a huge amount of power and flexibility to any army.

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Dragon Cat

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #1 on: 21 April 2014, 14:33:55 »
It does have a name

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But it's awesome
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #2 on: 21 April 2014, 14:43:39 »
This awesome machine, i was introduced to it in the clicky game and later dabbling with it when the Record Sheets: Mechwarrior Dark Age book 1 came out.   I think one most notable user of this machine is Calamity Kell in Swords of Sedition/Fortress Republic Dualology, where she demonstrated how to do the impossible with that thing in France.  Someone shot at her SM-1, she spun the vehicle to spread the damage around the tank, keeping its to the a damage to a minimum.

Thanks for another insightful article, JadeHellbringer!
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #3 on: 21 April 2014, 15:36:28 »
Hellbie you forgot the Telos variant from XTRO: Phantoms and according to the MUL it ain't unique.

I can imagine the Telos being annoying as hell a ELRM-15 platform, vehicular stealth armor, a floating stealth mobile artillery piece, find a spotter, fire indirect and run to the next firing spot at extreme or long range. Hitting from long range would be problematic.

The classic SM1 I'd use them to go after lighter targets you can OSK if possible like light 'mechs.

I guess fighting these things you need longer range counters, that have more than 12 hexes of range such as LRMs, Silver Bullet Gauss Rifles, LB-10xs, and hope for mobility crits. Also if your going to use the vehicle usual counters, always be flanking. If your within 12 hexes and in the front arc, something has gone wrong.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #4 on: 21 April 2014, 15:43:44 »
The grognard in me wants to prefer everything old to everything new.. but the SM-1 is a worthy upgrade to the original classic.  Obviously, the munchkintech new tech improves both firepower and armor whilst simultaneously lessening the severity of its weaknesses... yet the implementation still preserves the feel of most of those same weaknesses.

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #5 on: 21 April 2014, 16:35:48 »
from the looks of the thing, i think it could have been built out of a modified transport hover frame. seems like the sort of thing that might happen here- speeds up the turnaround time from development to deployment, makes parts somewhat easier to source....the majority of the design is simply the main gun and engines sitting on a flat bed behind the driver's bubbles, i'm sure a smaller downrated engine would fit fine up front and without the gun that leaves a fair amount of weight for hucking materials over otherwise hard to pass ground.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #6 on: 21 April 2014, 16:40:46 »
The grognard in me wants to prefer everything old to everything new.. but the SM-1 is a worthy upgrade to the original classic.  Obviously, the munchkintech new tech improves both firepower and armor whilst simultaneously lessening the severity of its weaknesses... yet the implementation still preserves the feel of most of those same weaknesses.

Completely disagree with you on the munchkin label

First no XL
Second useless turret
Third wasted free heat sinks
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Scotty

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #7 on: 21 April 2014, 16:45:01 »
And that, friends, is the sound of someone entirely missing the point and the joke.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #8 on: 21 April 2014, 16:52:44 »
I want to like the SM1 and SM1a.  But, the trouble is that 2 Saladins of the same gun type have similar BVs.  The clan UAC20 has longer range, but the point I think is still applicable.  To make the SM1 work out it has to survive longer, which is inherently a tough thing to do with a hover frame and a short ranged weapon.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #9 on: 21 April 2014, 16:58:59 »
To make the SM1 work out it has to survive longer, which is inherently a tough thing to do with a hover frame and a short ranged weapon.

But the rub is on the word longer...  Longer than what?

The Saladin it replaces only had what, 5 points of armor on a side? (don't have books with me right now)  Whatever it had, it was suicidally little on an introtech battlefield let alone a modern one.

So yeah you might get 2x as many units.. but few of those Saladins will ever get a single shot off on a modern battlefield (what with pulse lasers, targeting computers, and especially so many units out there that make 8/12 look sluggish)

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #10 on: 21 April 2014, 17:00:10 »
Nah, the turret isn't useless just because it doesn't happen to hold the main gun. I just need to picture myself charging in with this thing past hostile infantry while looking for my real target and the value of some secondary self-defense weapons that can still be pointed into any direction as needed immediately reveals itself. ;)

Plus, the armor on it isn't "wasted" either. Yes, if it wasn't there, those 24 points could be distributed between the front, rear, and side instead -- but then, without the turret to soak up the occasional hit, all those locations would simply get hit that much more often, too, so the difference essentially comes out in the wash.

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #11 on: 21 April 2014, 17:17:16 »
From an out-of-character perspective, as well, that turret means that it's theoretically capable of being salvaged fairly easily if the turret takes a few hits.  With a Saladin, you breach the armor and go internal and it pretty much dies, good luck bringing it back.  If you lose the turret on an SM1, though, it's a simple matter to replace the half ton fixture, the two tons of weapons, and the ton and a half of armor and roll it back onto the field again.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #12 on: 21 April 2014, 17:39:10 »
Still prefer the Saladin. Smaller, cheaper. Armour doesn't matter when hits mean immobility. Finally there are conceptual problems with the AC20 back stabber. All your eggs are in a very large basket that has to 1. hit, and then 2. hit a rear torso, and then 3 generate a useful critical hit because 20 points is rarely fatal.

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #13 on: 21 April 2014, 17:58:43 »
20 points might be rarely fatal to a high end assault, but over the course of a turn a solid 20 point whack can be very much fatal to just about anything mid-range heavy and smaller - especially since I highly, highly doubt that your SM1 is going to be solo, and declaring fire with it first gives you a good deal better chance to inflict some meaningful critical hits than if you had a Saladin already a smoking ruin 15 hexes away because it took a single PPC or LRM-10.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #14 on: 21 April 2014, 18:05:48 »
honestly, i could see this as a light mech hunter.. its fast enough to run down most light's and mediums, has more armor than most of them, and can pretty much put one down in a single hit.

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #15 on: 21 April 2014, 19:00:46 »
Is there really, in practice, lesser love for the Gauss version? I haven't played SM1s, but I have played Saladins, and the need to get into knife-fighting ranges means you're often considerably closer to other enemy units than you'd like to be in order to get that big backstab on the priority targets (one reason our lot used to call them 'suicide sleds').

The GR version has the option to blow through, then turn, and take medium range shots from 10-12 hexes that the AC-20 versions would need to be half as close to get. Alternatively, you can go hull-down & start shooting from further out, then pull back. Or, of course, both at the same time.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #16 on: 21 April 2014, 19:33:13 »
Is there really, in practice, lesser love for the Gauss version? I haven't played SM1s, but I have played Saladins, and the need to get into knife-fighting ranges means you're often considerably closer to other enemy units than you'd like to be in order to get that big backstab on the priority targets (one reason our lot used to call them 'suicide sleds').

The GR version has the option to blow through, then turn, and take medium range shots from 10-12 hexes that the AC-20 versions would need to be half as close to get. Alternatively, you can go hull-down & start shooting from further out, then pull back. Or, of course, both at the same time.

Oh it's quite useable, no question- but it lacks the 'oomph' of the original, the utility of the LBX version, and as I said if you really want a Gauss-toting fast hover platform the Regulator is just a better option in-general. Does that mean the SM3 sucks? Hell no. Nasty customer- that it's the third-place out of the three main versions says more about the badassery (that's a word now) of the other two than anything bad about the SM3.

Hellbie you forgot the Telos variant from XTRO: Phantoms and according to the MUL it ain't unique.

I can imagine the Telos being annoying as hell a ELRM-15 platform, vehicular stealth armor, a floating stealth mobile artillery piece, find a spotter, fire indirect and run to the next firing spot at extreme or long range. Hitting from long range would be problematic.

The classic SM1 I'd use them to go after lighter targets you can OSK if possible like light 'mechs.

I guess fighting these things you need longer range counters, that have more than 12 hexes of range such as LRMs, Silver Bullet Gauss Rifles, LB-10xs, and hope for mobility crits. Also if your going to use the vehicle usual counters, always be flanking. If your within 12 hexes and in the front arc, something has gone wrong.

You're correct, I did forget about this one- and as I look at it, I'm okay with forgetting. Not that it's a bad unit, but when the first thing the book says is that it's a pretty much totally new vehicle using a different tech base, frame, armor, weaponry, etc., I'm having trouble seeing it as anything but a totally different vehicle. Still, stealth armor, the ability to bombard at ridiculous ranges, and the speed to always remain away from the enemy... it's a solid idea, I suppose, but I'm not overly impressed with it compared to the others. I will give it this- the Telos took my suggestion of ditching the turret. The single MG is forward-mounted, and while the AMOUNT of armor went down due to switching to stealth armor (and less of it), the amount per location stayed pretty close to the original thanks to moving the former turret armor to the other locations.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #17 on: 21 April 2014, 21:57:00 »
Still prefer the Saladin. Smaller, cheaper. Armour doesn't matter when hits mean immobility. Finally there are conceptual problems with the AC20 back stabber. All your eggs are in a very large basket that has to 1. hit, and then 2. hit a rear torso, and then 3 generate a useful critical hit because 20 points is rarely fatal.

agreed.  it's so easy to stop a hovercraft in it's tracks nowadays.  all the extra armor in the world doesn't help you if someone hits you with a cluster of LB-X shot or a handful of SRMs.  fast AC-20 carriers like these are all-or-nothing attackers, as mentioned, and as such work best in packs.  i would rather have twice as many AC/20s running the gauntlet of enemy fire, or twice as many guns pointed at the enemy.  plus if the initiative is on your side you might be able to spread your tanks out and force the enemy to spread his fire, or have nowhere safe to turn his back. 
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #18 on: 21 April 2014, 22:17:15 »
I love the SM1 so much. Pretty psyched about this VotW. When I was doing research for the ATOW game I'm currently running for my wife (who wanted to play a Nova Cat tanker), I ran across the SM1 and fell head over heels. I seriously considered jumping the timeframe from 3052 to the Jihad just to give her one of these babies. :D

The Sarna article has this mention: "The vehicle's unique split cockpit design allows the cockpit modules to eject from the vehicle." I don't have TRO 3075, so a) is that mentioned in the TRO, and b) if so, is there actually an ejection module, or is that just an unfunded fluffy mandate?

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #19 on: 21 April 2014, 22:22:18 »
I love the SM1 so much. Pretty psyched about this VotW. When I was doing research for the ATOW game I'm currently running for my wife (who wanted to play a Nova Cat tanker), I ran across the SM1 and fell head over heels. I seriously considered jumping the timeframe from 3052 to the Jihad just to give her one of these babies. :D

The Sarna article has this mention: "The vehicle's unique split cockpit design allows the cockpit modules to eject from the vehicle." I don't have TRO 3075, so a) is that mentioned in the TRO, and b) if so, is there actually an ejection module, or is that just an unfunded fluffy mandate?
Well, the original info came from the Jihad Hot Spots books, like the ye old Project Phoenix web-Tro with its Goliath with the ejectable cockpit, i think maybe been something that fell by the wayside.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #20 on: 21 April 2014, 23:04:25 »
I think I've figured out what the SM1 really is....

It's a human guided Arrow IV artillery strike. Using it is a lot like how I used to use Arrow IV Homing strikes. Get behind the target with a TAG, light it up and slam AIVs into its rear. Of course, this proved to be too brutal and when TacOps came out, I advocated to change the rules so the missile always hits from the direction of where it was fired from.

Which leaves the SM1 the king of back stabbing.


As for the SM3, that would make a great light Mech hunter. The Gauss means outrange a lot of lighter machines. The SM1 I wouldn't want to go toe to toe with light Mechs as it can't turn and burn its way out of a fight with them.

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #21 on: 21 April 2014, 23:05:37 »
I love the SM1 so much. Pretty psyched about this VotW. When I was doing research for the ATOW game I'm currently running for my wife (who wanted to play a Nova Cat tanker), I ran across the SM1 and fell head over heels. I seriously considered jumping the timeframe from 3052 to the Jihad just to give her one of these babies. :D

The Sarna article has this mention: "The vehicle's unique split cockpit design allows the cockpit modules to eject from the vehicle." I don't have TRO 3075, so a) is that mentioned in the TRO, and b) if so, is there actually an ejection module, or is that just an unfunded fluffy mandate?

I didn't come across anything about that, but it was stated that the cockpits, despite their seeming lack of protection for the crew, are very tough.

...Which I don't buy for a minute, but it's the Battletech universe and things don't have to make a damned bit of sense. Roll with it.  O0
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #22 on: 21 April 2014, 23:30:19 »
...Which I don't buy for a minute, but it's the Battletech universe and things don't have to make a damned bit of sense. Roll with it.  O0

And if you eject in one of those armoured goldfish bowls, that's exactly what you'll end up doing ;)
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #23 on: 21 April 2014, 23:43:49 »
And if you eject in one of those armoured goldfish bowls, that's exactly what you'll end up doing ;)

Oooooh, maybe that's the idea! Eject over water, and you can run to shore like those inflatable gerbil ball things you see people play with sometimes!

(Yeah, I don't know what the hell that's called. I'm not hip.)
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #24 on: 21 April 2014, 23:49:42 »
Oooooh, maybe that's the idea! Eject over water, and you can run to shore like those inflatable gerbil ball things you see people play with sometimes!

(Yeah, I don't know what the hell that's called. I'm not hip.)

I'm a dad and have videos of my kids using one. I call it "those inflatable gerbil ball things" as well. I don't think any parent knows what they are really called, we all remember gerbil balls.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #25 on: 22 April 2014, 00:36:54 »
...Which I don't buy for a minute, but it's the Battletech universe and things don't have to make a damned bit of sense. Roll with it.  O0
And if you eject in one of those armoured goldfish bowls, that's exactly what you'll end up doing ;)




:cough:

anyway, given that there is an ejectable crew compartment piece of equipment, and the SM1 lacks it, i would say that it doesn't have the ability.  unless they make up a quirk for the tank that is...
« Last Edit: 22 April 2014, 00:39:15 by whistler »
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #26 on: 22 April 2014, 01:07:08 »
Love the SM1 when it came out in MWDA and it was one of the first units I made a MM file for before we had the MWDA sheets released.  I play with survivability rules, so they last a bit better but SM1s have definitely taken a utility hit over the BMR rules in play when the SM1 came out IIRC.

They are the cav for your mech battle line, slashing in from the sides or flanking to get to the backfield causing target priority questions.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #27 on: 22 April 2014, 07:02:25 »
Have yet to use it but I see not many reasons why I pick it over a Saladin- especially as I like to use special ammo these days.

AP or Precision rounds are evil and the Saladin can carry both and still will not empty its bins most of the time before dying.  :D

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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #28 on: 22 April 2014, 07:03:51 »
The Sarna article has this mention: "The vehicle's unique split cockpit design allows the cockpit modules to eject from the vehicle." I don't have TRO 3075, so a) is that mentioned in the TRO, and b) if so, is there actually an ejection module, or is that just an unfunded fluffy mandate?
I remember reading/hearing that somewhere, maybe it was something WizKids put out about the SM1.
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Re: VotW: SM1 Tank Destroyer
« Reply #29 on: 22 April 2014, 08:24:11 »
Quote from: Jihad Hot Spots: 3070
Using a concept first applied to underwater drilling submarines,
LA W proposed a “dual bubble” design that would place two crew members each inside a bubble cockpit encompassed by almost 80 percent ferroglass. Positioned on either side of the large main gun, the total crew of four enjoys a 240-degree field of vision. More importantly, the bubbles incorporate an arrangement that functions like a BattleMech’s cockpit ejection system. If a fire erupts in the body of the tank, the bubbles can “fire,” launching the crew away from the ensuing explosion. Redundant controls in the two bubbles even allow this tank to continue operations (though at reduced efficiency) in the event of crew loss.

This is the source of the ejection seats in the Suicide Machine 01.   Makes sense given how boom boom it can be.  However, isn't this a clan vehicle?  Wouldn't it have built in case protection?
« Last Edit: 22 April 2014, 08:26:29 by Wrangler »
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