Custom vehicle -trait.

[Sami Jumppanen]

i have this feeling that the custom vehicle -trait is kind of difficult and generaly encourages people to get the most powerfull vehicle/mech as possible since they spent the points for it. So how would i rule it if a player just wanted a F -tech vehicle but customised it slightly (keeping it at introductory tech level)?

Say: SRM -carrier but has one SRM and a ton of ammo removed and replaced with armour?

[Decoy]

I'd save any little mods like that for after chargen. Let the techs handle it.

[Col Toda]

This trait just stops the random assignment of mechs for your character .  The more you spend the more specific replacement you get .  If your character's mech is from Solaris VII it may be unique . The further off the unit is from stock the harder to keep it fielded becomes . Sometimes the unit is normally seen inside another affiliation . Sometimes it is a Franken Mech that a busy tech worked out the compatibility problems of .

[monbvol]

In my House Rules I've toyed with the idea of using upgrade point pools for varying levels of Custom Vehicle(can't remember what book it was but there was one that gave a point pool for upgrading mechs from Succession Wars to Star League tech) or restricting certain refits (1 point allows Class A refits under Strat Ops rules) to make the trait a bit more flexible and workable so you can have simpler refits like you describe without having to go all the way to Custom Vehicle 4(what the proposed refit would require under AToW rules despite being relatively straightforward).

[StuartYee]

i have this feeling that the custom vehicle -trait is kind of difficult and generaly encourages people to get the most powerfull vehicle/mech as possible since they spent the points for it. So how would i rule it if a player just wanted a F -tech vehicle but customised it slightly (keeping it at introductory tech level)?

Say: SRM -carrier but has one SRM and a ton of ammo removed and replaced with armour?

Well the actual table is as follows (Inner Sphere):

0 - Random Stock Vehicle (native I.S. affiliation)
1 - Random Stock Vehicle (Any I.S. affiliation)
2 - Choice Stock Vehicle (within I.S. affiliation)
3 - Choice Stock Vehicle (Any I.S. affiliation)
4 - Customized I.S. Vehicle

So by the book, the PC needs 400 XP for 4 TP in Custom Vehicle in order to have a custom vehicle regardless of tech or availability (so long as it's I.S.)

You can however make a GM ruling at your discretion that the base chassis and modification is simple enough to only need 3 TP (300 XP), but that's up to you.

I believe Monbvol has already elaborated specifically on using strat ops rules:

In my House Rules I've toyed with the idea of using upgrade point pools for varying levels of Custom Vehicle(can't remember what book it was but there was one that gave a point pool for upgrading mechs from Succession Wars to Star League tech) or restricting certain refits (1 point allows Class A refits under Strat Ops rules) to make the trait a bit more flexible and workable so you can have simpler refits like you describe without having to go all the way to Custom Vehicle 4(what the proposed refit would require under AToW rules despite being relatively straightforward).

[Random]

Just off the top of my head I would say, make it random.

The 4TP (400xp) Custom IS Vehicle is a Random Stock Vehicle (native I.S. affiliation)

[Sami Jumppanen]

I think i do as the Decoy suggested. No point in spending that many points for a small customization when any tech would do it on the side.

Now i wonder if any of those pilot special abilities would be usefull with this vehicle or does it do the job without?

[Diamondshark]

Well, in the AToW Companion, the Custom Vehicle trait does refer to the available technology level/maintenance quality.

[guardiandashi]

Just off the top of my head I would say, make it random.

The 4TP (400xp) Custom IS Vehicle is a Random Stock Vehicle (native I.S. affiliation)

actually that's not correct.
CUSTOM VEHICLE TRAIT TABLE
Trait TP Inner Sphere Vehicle Selection Clan Vehicle Selection
0 Random Stock (own I.S. Affiliation)          N/A
+1 Random Stock ( any I.S. Affiliation)       N/A
+2 Choice of Stock (own I.S. Affiliation)      N/A
+3 Choice of Stock (any I.S. Affiliation)      Random Second-Line Stock
+4 Design own Vehicle (I.S. Technology)    Random Front-Line Stock
+5 N/A                                                    Choice of Stock (any Clan)
+6 N/A                                                    Design own Vehicle (Clan Technology)

as I see it the 4+ means I can design a vehicle from SCRATCH for the weight class I can have.

an additional note is : 
A Clan player with no Custom Vehicle Trait will receive a Random Front-
Line unit assignment if trueborn, or Second-Line if freeborn.

bear in mind, I would add a few "crevats" to this but in general the custom table is intended for innersphere chars. 

so you need (in 3075ish) 3 points in custom vehicle to even get a clan mech, if you aren't of a clan faction.

also I personally would allow some "reasonable" customizations for ~1 tp equivalent, (not including the 4+ point level)
example of what I consider "reasonable would be something like taking a PXH-3M phoenix hawk, and dumping 1/2 of the mg ammo, for a second machine gun for example

[Col Toda]

So to field a new Solaris VII light mech that has all the Clan  bells and whistles can go for about 800Pt's
Which is enough to get a random assignment of an assault class mech any IS affiliation for the same points. 800Pt's
Or a Specific Heavy of your choice from your own affiliation . 800Pt's
Or a Specific Clan mech of medium class .
Of Combined vehicle and Custom traits .
I do not see this as unbalanced . 
I can see some players starting with 800 Pt's in their ride at the very most . I think the normal amount is half that .
In a point based system the character would have to lose it somewhere else .

[monbvol]

I'm not against it costing a lot to have a fully tricked out custom ride but I would like to see more reason to have say 300 XP in Custom Vehicle.  Or 500 XP.  Or why it should cost 400 XP for even rather minor customizations.

[guardiandashi]

it has to do with the linear nature of the table, and the "grain level" of traits

personally I would say that customization should almost be its own 100 point trait but shrug.

as in 0-20 no customization
21-40 extremely minor customizations things like:
1 unit of ammo swapped for "something else"
up to 8 points of armor changes (removed, added, repositioned)
etc.
41-60 a minor weapon swap, changing machine guns for small lasers for example.
etc.

[A. Lurker]

Lately I'm coming more and more to the conclusion (in the context of RPGs in general, not just AToW specifically) that character abilities and character equipment simply shouldn't be paid for out of the same point or other resource pool at all, period. It just increasingly strikes me as poor game design: "Oh, sure, you get to play the broke ace with all the mad skillz and a toothpick to his name and you're the nebbish guy who can't do anything right but gets all the gear. You'll fight crime together. Yes, it's totally balanced, we swear!"

A bit exaggerated for effect, to be sure, but I think it illustrates one of the issues I see with that setup. (The main other one is the more philosophical question of just where to draw the line between the players' toys and the GM's, anyway. IMO, the more the players are expected to pay for aspects of the game world itself -- equipment, wealth, status, contacts --, the more that line gets needlessly blurred.)

[monbvol]

I'm not against having all that stuff come out of the same pool but it does have to be reasonable and because I can't entirely disagree that the current system is a bit out of whack for much the same reasons you state I decided to make a Status trait for my house rules and kill Equipped and Wealth as stand alone traits.

If I can ever figure out a reasonable way to kill Custom Vehicle, Design Quirk, and Vehicle as stand alone traits I would.