Military academies

[Nav_Alpha]

I'm away from all of my books - so can someone help me out: how long is a typical military academy enrolment? Two years? Three?
And do you add an extra year or OCS?

Thanks in advance

[solmanian]

Changes from academy to academy. The more prestigious it is, it tend to be longer. The main Dc one , SUn Zhang (or something like it) has 4 years, and another 4 in cadre units IIRC. In the heyday of the SLDF, you could be in up to eight years (if you were good enough to warrant advanced trainings) before actually being assigned to an active unit. 4 years seem good. Low tier academies, and less important branches like infantry and armor could be 2-3 years, while dropper, jumper and warship crew can be 6-8 years. NAIS's (and probably the rest of the AFFS top tier academis too) cadre duty is two years.

[solmanian]

Since you obviously have internet, you could check sarna for a specific academy...

[Nav_Alpha]

Since you obviously have internet, you could check sarna for a specific academy...

I have. Few seem to actually list a course length and they vary, as has been pointed out.

I was actually thinking purely - "how long is the life path module when you build a character in ATOW"?

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

  It depends on the academy. They could be two or four year academies the same way there are two and four year colleges. An academy isn't OCS -It is far more comprehensive in training, allows more time and quality training. Face it, OCS is not West Point or the Citadel. Those academies teach the meat and history of the military and offer detailed courses in leadership on and off the field. OCS is the bare bones course to be an officer.

  Academies that train mechwarriors also run the gamut of minimal qualified permit to complete, individual combat instruction.

[Nav_Alpha]

  It depends on the academy. They could be two or four year academies the same way there are two and four year colleges. An academy isn't OCS -It is far more comprehensive in training, allows more time and quality training. Face it, OCS is not West Point or the Citadel. Those academies teach the meat and history of the military and offer detailed courses in leadership on and off the field. OCS is the bare bones course to be an officer.

  Academies that train mechwarriors also run the gamut of minimal qualified permit to complete, individual combat instruction.

Yeah, I get you. I'm the RL product of OCS - or shake and bake, 90 day wonder course and then we put down pips on your shoulders.

By way of background, I'm asking because in game I want to ship the heir of my current merc unit off to an academy, get him some basic leadership skills and then return him to the unit so he can eventually take over as CO.
It's late jihad (he's entering Goshen in 3075) and I'm just wondering when I can expect him back.

The jihad might change things - I could see cadet getting churned out. Additionally, I know Goshen's cycle for its training battalion is down to just three months by this point.

Any thoughts?

[solmanian]

The Goshen training battalion saw heavy fighting in the Jihad. Probably should make some dice roles to see if he's dead.. >:D
Also, I reckon the AFFS automatically conscripted the graduates, so you may not see him until after the jihad. Goshen may be prestigious, but you could've chosen a more merc friendly academy, as Goshen belong to the AFFS.

[Nav_Alpha]

I figured it being a private academy, he might be able to avoid AFFS service or at least get by with minimum service.

[solmanian]

I figured it being a private academy, he might be able to avoid AFFS service or at least get by with minimum service.

In the middle of the Jihad? With New Avalon under siege? Most of the AFFS were in constant service since the clan invasion.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

In the middle of the Jihad? With New Avalon under siege? Most of the AFFS were in constant service since the clan invasion.

  Yes, even then. Anyone could refuse a commission. A merc commander doesn't need a diploma, just the training. The cadet can walk out the day before graduation, no strings attached.

[Nav_Alpha]

In the middle of the Jihad? With New Avalon under siege? Most of the AFFS were in constant service since the clan invasion.

New Avalon is free by this point. The focus is on taking the fight to the Wobbies now.

See, as Goshen is listed as a private institution I don't know if there's any obligation to serve in the Suns.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

See, as Goshen is listed as a private institution I don't know if there's any obligation to serve in the Suns.

  There wouldn't be unless it was through government grant. Check your contract ;)

[Nav_Alpha]

"Look kids, everyone is off to the front. Except for Jorgensen. His tuition cheques are a different colour.".

So Goshen seems to be very similar to the Sakhara academy. According to Sarna, it's a two year course.
Do you think it'd be fair to suggest a two year course for Goshen. With an extra year for OCS?

[solmanian]

A guy who refuses to defend his country in a time of war, in favour of becoming a gun for hire (in the point of history where mercs are the most despised) being chosen as an officer candidate? That's optimistic.
"We have a national crisis, and the AFFS need the best officers we can produce; but Jorgensen's daddy paid big bucks, so we'll waste a slot for the mercenary scumbag...".

Even if he does escape the draft, he'll still have black mark in his resume, as being essentially a deserter, even if he's not legally one.
Sorry if I'm rambling; as a veteran I have low tolerance to people who aren't willing to defend their country, even imaginary/fictional ones.

Yeah, in an optimal setting 2 years. But this is a time of war... Imagine if in the middle of the counterattack the British and American soldiers decided the Nazis aren't their problem anymore.  Bare in mind that considering military academies, especially one dedicated to training defenders for the Capellan march, have some sort of indoctrination going on (promoting patriotism, honor, duty and what's not), the progeny might insist on "finishing the fight"; considering the disgust felt towards mercenaries at this point, he may decide he doesn't want to be a merc.

[Nav_Alpha]

No I get you, and I have much the same perspective.

That said, I've gone through training with foreign troops on exchange who've gone through training with us and then departed on graduation day back to their home county.

I guess my point was that private academies like Goshen may not have the same requirements as state run schools.

[solmanian]

Their training battalions are part of the AFFS, so they're not that private; even if they do use their own standards for admissions.
I believe the training battalion is optional, however; so he could theoretically leave right than and there upon graduation (though he would probably be pressured not to, especially by his peers).

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Do you think it'd be fair to suggest a two year course for Goshen. With an extra year for OCS?

  No. Like Academies like West Point or Citadel, if you finish a course, the cadet would be considered officer materiel. OCS is not an additional course but an equivalent of the total training regimen.

I guess my point was that private academies like Goshen may not have the same requirements as state run schools.

  They wouldn't, that's why they're private and not state. It wouldn't have the strings attached. Joining a merc unit doesn't have so much of a stigma in the AFFS, considering how many merc units carry the AFFS...

[Nav_Alpha]

  No. Like Academies like West Point or Citadel, if you finish a course, the cadet would be considered officer materiel. OCS is not an additional course but an equivalent of the total training regimen.

Ah, but in BT an academy graduate is not usually an officer. Most graduate as NCOs, with the academy representing a better degree of training rather than officer training.

The more I think, I'm thinking a short stint with the AFFS might be worthwhile for the kid - he can graduate, serve some time and then link up with the unit a couple years later.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Ah, but in BT an academy graduate is not usually an officer. Most graduate as NCOs, with the academy representing a better degree of training rather than officer training.

The more I think, I'm thinking a short stint with the AFFS might be worthwhile for the kid - he can graduate, serve some time and then link up with the unit a couple years later.

  My take is that finishing a Mechwarrior training course will make you an NCO while a true, full military academy trains officers.

  Heh, make sure the AFFS doesn't train him in bad habits ;)

[Nav_Alpha]

  My take is that finishing a Mechwarrior training course will make you an NCO while a true, full military academy trains officers.

  Heh, make sure the AFFS doesn't train him in bad habits ;)

Well, it's a unit that was formed during the Andurian rebellion - so most of the originals were trained in the Marik tradition (apart from the current, acting CO who's another Davion vet).
So he might ruffle some (eagle) feathers with his spurs and what not

[Nebfer]

Well It dose depend a bit on which edition your looking at.

AToW states the Time taken for academy Training is 2 years for most military specialty's including mechwarriors (4 for some others like Battle armor training, which dose not make much sense). With the best of the group (or though with connections) going on to get Officer training which takes another year. So 2 to 5 years depending on what field your going in and or if your taking officer school or not.

Though the older House field manuals use a some what different set, though the field manuals have two different RPG editions thy use...

The AFFS book says this
Basic 1 year
ATI +2 years
Special +2 years
OCS +1 year

So it it would take 3 to 6 years for one to graduate
Though NAIS, Sakhara and Goshen have a 3 year Special, Armstrong flight has a 2 year basic it seems
And the Training battalions have a 1D6 + 3 year path, so 4 to 9 years with that path.