Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc  (Read 8386 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« on: 18 July 2014, 11:40:41 »
’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc

Phoenix Hawk IIc. Clan upgrade of the venerable Phoenix Hawk design. 77.7777(ad infinitum)% larger than its forebear. A ’Mech whose original miniature bears a strange resemblance to Starscream.

At least the one I’ve seen, which may not have been put together right…

The tale of this second-line BattleMech starts during the reign of Steel Viper Khan Jacob Masters. Apparently, though his reign was known for not being the most innovative, his Clan’s Scientist caste decided to try and be innovative by creating an Assault chassis based on the venerable Phoenix Hawk. The result is widely panned as an under-gunned oddball.

Weighing in at 80 tons, the original Phoenix Hawk IIc entered service in 2851. The design is built around an endo-steel skeleton, mounts five jump jets, and is powered by a 400-rated extralight engine, bringing its ground speed as close as possible to that of the original Phoenix Hawk (a 480-rated superlight [XXL] engine weighs 96 tons). Ten and a half tons of ferro-fibrous armor provides 81% of maximum protection in a 9, 26/14, 20/10, 20, 26 pattern (head, center front/rear, side front/rear, arms, legs respectively). A Class-10 Ultra autocannon is mounted in each side torso, and a machine gun is placed in the head and centerline. Six tons of ammunition feed the autocannons, while half a ton feeds the machine guns. Ten double heat sinks are sufficient to moderate normal heat output.

In 2852, the Phoenix Hawk IIc 2 showed up. This machine swaps the weaponry of the original for two 20-rack LRM launchers in each side torso. Four tons of ammunition for the missile launchers is placed in each arm. Finally, a ton of armor was removed, leaving protection in a 9, 21/10, 20/10, 20, 21 pattern. The heat loads from this variant are much more extreme.

Both of the above variants were almost exclusive to the Steel Vipers. For one reason, they were considered undergunned. Perhaps more importantly, in 2854 the OmniMech arrived, relegating these machines to second-line and solahma formations. This is how the design soldiered forth through the rest of the Golden Century all the way into Operation: Revival and back out when the Vipers were thrown out of the Inner Sphere leading to several actions that eventually destroyed them.

In the aftermath of being thrown out, Khan Perigard Zalman needed more machines for his new freebirth soldiers to pilot. It was decided to turn to the Diamond Sharks. For a time, it seemed as if the Vipers got the better end of the deal. The 3 variant arrived in 3062. Using the same armor profile as the original, though reworked to look a bit more vicious, this design mounted two heavy large lasers, two small pulse lasers, and one medium pulse laser, all tied to a targeting computer. Twenty-two heat sinks can take a standing Alpha.

In 3065, the first hints of what the Sharks got out of the deal showed up. The 4 variant mounted two 9-pack ATM launchers in each side torso. Three tons of ammunition was stored in each arm, with an additional ton stored in the center torso. The original ten heat sinks give it the same heat issues as the 2. Alongside this development, the Diamond Sharks also began selling the earlier two variants, and perhaps a few of these to Clan sources, and some Inner Sphere groups.

As the Jihad began to rage, the Sharks produced new variants. The first, the 5 showed up in 3069 and mounted one Class-20 Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle in each side torso, and two anti-personnel Gauss Rifles in each arm. This may be the last variant to reach the Homeworlds, as the RATs in the Wars of Reaving Supplemental contain it.

In 3070, the 6 arrived, and is the variant with the farthest jump range, with eight improved jump jets. A ton of armor was added, with protection now laid out in a 9, 34/11, 22/8, 23, 30 pattern. Eleven heat sinks struggle with the heat output of the two heavy medium lasers and two plasma cannons. A targeting computer helps with accuracy, and the four tons of ammunition feed the plasma weapons. I do wonder if this might not be a proof-of-concept design with both the improved jump jets and the plasma cannons (3070 being about when they became full-production weapons).

In 3078, the 7 showed itself. The first thing to note is that the engine has been downgraded to a 320-rated extralight. Six improved jump jets give the machine the same jump profile as its ancient predecessor. Fourteen and a half tons of standard plate gives protection in a 9, 36/9, 26/7, 25, 31 pattern. Weaponry consists of a Class-10 LB-X autocannon in each side torso, a medium laser in each arm, and two 4-pack Streak SRM launchers in the centerline. Two tons of autocannon ammunition is stored in each arm, while the one ton of Streak ammunition is stored in the head. Heat is still an issue with only ten heat sinks.

In 3086, the final variant (to this point), the 8 entered service. This model uses a 400-rated superlight engine to regain the original’s speed. Seven improved jump jets provide increased mobility. Sixteen double-strength heat sinks struggle with the heat load produced by the weaponry. Which consists of a PPC and two small pulse lasers in each side torso. An ECM suite in the head rounds out the composition of the design.

Using one of these machines is a battle against frustration. Many look at any assault design and expect something that can take a beating and dish one out as well. The Phoenix Hawk IIc is somewhat underwhelming for the latter, and barely sufficient at the former. The first four variants also suffer from having all their weaponry in the torsos and head. Under zellbrigen, you will have some issues with anyone that is mobile enough to get to your rear. This becomes less of an issue as time goes by, as zell seems to go away from any fight outside of Clan combat, and even then rare. My view is to use these by jumping around, hitting hard, and fading away when necessary. Keep an eye on your heat, as most of the variants are rather hot-running. Also keep an eye on your ammunition. In a sustained fight, you can easily run out.

Fighting one is not much easier. It is still a Clan machine, so quite dangerous. Frankly, I can only fall back on my stand-bys of heavy weapons, heat-inducing weapons, precision ammunition, and targeting if you can (center torso seems best to me, simply because more engine crits). It has been some time since I’ve faced one of these in combat (heck, any Clan machines in combat). I’d probably still go forward with the hack-and-slash method (i.e. take a TSM Berserker and dance the dance of death).

Part of me is troubled by the fact no new models have entered service in the years from the Founding of the Republic. But then I remember several of these machines were in the Age of Destruction game, so they have to still be in service and hopefully being produced. While I also wonder if there shouldn’t be a variant of the 4 that uses the improved ATMs, I do not recall that technology spreading to the Inner Sphere Clans. Maybe we’ll see it if the Homeworlders finally come again.

As one of the designs hit by the Unseen crisis, the Phoenix Hawk IIc first appeared in TRO 3055, and later in Project Phoenix and 3085.

Phoenix Hawk IIc

God and Davion

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #1 on: 18 July 2014, 15:20:55 »
First of all, thanks for the article!  The Phoenix Hawk IIC looks weird and it lacks guns and armor and...... you get it. However, I have suffered a guy that uses it well. The 2 version is very, very dangerous. It has range, speed and firepower. It lacks weapons in the arms? No problem, just take a tree and you got a club for those special intimate moments with a mech. You overheat? No problem, just shoot 2 LRM20 and then jump into a heavy woods. The list of dirty tricks and nasty things it can do is long, very long.  I know that some configs of the Gargoyle can be nasty but the mix of long range weapons, speed and jump jets of the Phoenix Hawk IIC 2 is truly good in able hands.

  The other variants are more or less underwhelming. The UAC10 are not very optimal and Phoenix Hawk IIC suffers for it. The reseen variants lack something... minus the ATM 9 variant. There are a lot of ways to say "I hate you, now die" but 4 ATM9 with HE ammo in the back is one of the best ways to make sure the other guy will understand it.
« Last Edit: 18 July 2014, 16:29:38 by God and Davion »
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cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #2 on: 18 July 2014, 15:42:02 »
I like the 3, probably too much.
I like the 5 and the 8.  They're solid heavy garrison mechs. (Yup just like the Gargoyle, which I love, it's a heavy)

The 4, in the post Reaving homeworlds is dying for iATMs.  It's so much better.


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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #3 on: 18 July 2014, 16:01:20 »
It's worth noting the IIC 7 is routinely sold to Inner Sphere customers.
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Ferrosol

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #4 on: 18 July 2014, 16:55:10 »
I've found the IIC 6 makes a great command mech. Almost impossible to hit good anti conventional firepower and enough armour to shrug off whatever you throw at it. Maybe not the kind of mech a clan commander would ride due to the zell mentality but if you can get your hands on one as an IS commander it's amazing.

The original IIC is trash and the IIC2 is decent but undersinked.

Never used any of the other variants but that 4 7 and 8 all look worthwhile.


Giovanni Blasini

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #5 on: 18 July 2014, 18:54:37 »
Also, is it me, or did the original artwork write checks the mini couldn't cash?
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cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #6 on: 18 July 2014, 19:55:46 »
The 3 is a great mech.  I'm telling you if you haven't tried it you need to.  It's perfect for killing mediums and lights.  Highly mobile brawler that's more effective than it looks on paper.  It takes finesse to use it right.  It has tons of Character.

I wanted to see what a simple upgrade from standard to improved ATMs would do.  So I have a rag-tag secondline star, I like to think they are early era Stone Lions.
P-Hawk IIC 4
Bowman 3
Hellfire 2
2 x Rabid Coyote
The only changes from standard were upgrading to iATMs.  You don't want to fight these guys.  The steak function alone makes them dangerous. 

But back to the P-hawk..... I love the thing!


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Klat

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #7 on: 18 July 2014, 19:59:05 »
I actually really like the 4. I've had good luck with using it both as a high mobility close in fighter and as a long range support unit using its mobility to get into really nasty sniper spots.

The 4, in the post Reaving homeworlds is dying for iATMs.  It's so much better.

I very much agree. Such a configuration would be just plain scary.
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cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #8 on: 18 July 2014, 20:45:56 »
Yeah the streak feature means you hit when you shoot and you don't waste ammo or run your heat up.

The idea of 4 iATM 9's up close is horrifying.  The ability to get there at 5/8/5 with that much armor is an effective delivery system too.  Anything that can get to you that fast and deliver that much damage is pretty fierce.


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glitterboy2098

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #9 on: 18 July 2014, 21:35:54 »
Yeah the streak feature means you hit when you shoot and you don't waste ammo or run your heat up.

The idea of 4 iATM 9's up close is horrifying.  The ability to get there at 5/8/5 with that much armor is an effective delivery system too.  Anything that can get to you that fast and deliver that much damage is pretty fierce.
it's scary enough with just the regular, especially if your good at balancing the mobility with the firepower. i remember using it in an urban fight once, that game went super long because my P-hawk IIC4 was so good at keeping the TMM's up and using the terrain to block LOS as it cooled off..

a streak version would have been super effective.. and the EMP and inferno ammo of the iATM's, plus the indirect fire ability.. yeah that would be very useful.

Colt Ward

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #10 on: 19 July 2014, 09:33:10 »
It has always been the ammo in the arms that makes me leery of the design.  I have not really played with any of these except the original, it did ok in competitive play.
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AJC46

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #11 on: 19 July 2014, 12:24:02 »
according to a now gone post from the old BT forum from the author who submitted the initial statistics to FASA at the time, the 'Mech design that would later be the Phoenix Hawk IIC was originally called the Matador, and was not intended to be related in any way to the Phoenix Hawk.

SteelRaven

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #12 on: 20 July 2014, 17:24:04 »
I could never understand how the Phoenix Hawk became a assault mech
according to a now gone post from the old BT forum from the author who submitted the initial statistics to FASA at the time, the 'Mech design that would later be the Phoenix Hawk IIC was originally called the Matador, and was not intended to be related in any way to the Phoenix Hawk.
... that explains allot, the 3060 Matador was also written as a pre-omni Steel-Viper mech

While the later versions of the PhIIC sometimes cetch my eye, I'llalways remeber taking one apart with a Berserker ( now I have salvaged Clan tech, ho ho ho >:D )
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cavingjan

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #13 on: 28 July 2014, 14:18:29 »
Yeah the streak feature means you hit when you shoot and you don't waste ammo or run your heat up.

The idea of 4 iATM 9's up close is horrifying.  The ability to get there at 5/8/5 with that much armor is an effective delivery system too.  Anything that can get to you that fast and deliver that much damage is pretty fierce.

After the MD vs the Society fantasy game, I'm glad an iATM version doesn't exist. I couldn't imagine that beast. If you slipped in a NOVA yet, it would be too much of a monster.

cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #14 on: 28 July 2014, 15:55:01 »
After the MD vs the Society fantasy game, I'm glad an iATM version doesn't exist. I couldn't imagine that beast. If you slipped in a NOVA yet, it would be too much of a monster.

The pure pursuit of science won over fanatical devotion to science as religion I assume? ;)

Anything with 4 iATMs is dangerous.  The Pixie IIC ain't an Osteon, but at 5/8/5 and 4 improved launchers it is almost as scary.  Granted it lacks NOVA, but for those of us pondering the post-Reaving homeworlds NOVA is less of a big deal.


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Alexander Knight

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #15 on: 28 July 2014, 16:08:44 »
The pure pursuit of science won over fanatical devotion to science as religion I assume? ;)

From what I'd heard, it wasn't the iATMs that were the killers.  It was the NOVA ew system and a line of hull-down Ku tanks.

cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #16 on: 29 July 2014, 06:49:32 »
From what I'd heard, it wasn't the iATMs that were the killers.  It was the NOVA ew system and a line of hull-down Ku tanks.

If NOVA makes a bunch of Ku's dangerous then the Inner Sphere is in big trouble.


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cavingjan

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #17 on: 29 July 2014, 09:09:14 »
The Ku line in question did not have NOVA. It was just a line side by side line of them. Do old fashion mass fire going out.

cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #18 on: 29 July 2014, 18:21:29 »
The Ku line in question did not have NOVA. It was just a line side by side line of them. Do old fashion mass fire going out.

I find it incredibly awesome and hilarious that a bunch of Ku's was the difference maker in a game featuring Osteons, Celestials, and what looked like an Omega.

I still want a Pixie Deuce with iATMs


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mrbooth

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #19 on: 30 July 2014, 19:37:03 »
What is this game you are talking about and where do I get more info because it sounds really cool?

cold1

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #20 on: 30 July 2014, 21:26:12 »
What is this game you are talking about and where do I get more info because it sounds really cool?

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,40657.0.html 

We should probably move this discussion there anyway
Bunch of CGL writers, volunteers, regular types, etc played a Manei Domini versus Society game


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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #21 on: 11 August 2014, 13:29:03 »
Also, is it me, or did the original artwork write checks the mini couldn't cash?

You mean the fact that the mini didn't have a Lifelike Kung-Fu Grip or Karate Chopping Action?

Yeah, the color plates in TRO 3055 original were pretty wacky.

I've played a few games where someone was running a Pixie IIC and it's always ended up as a very underwhelming performer.  I'm much more likely to reach for a Warhammer IIC or Bruin when I'm looking for an 80 ton Clan mech.
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Fragger

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: Phoenix Hawk IIc
« Reply #22 on: 11 August 2014, 15:43:01 »
I often use the 3 and got some good results out of it and I believe the reason for this is because I don't use it in Clan forces, I use it in IS forces. The IS doesn't have a 5/8/5 mech with twin no-minimum-range headcappers and two free fists, though the relatively weak armor for an 80 ton mech does hurt. Still, I usually do better with this as a melee mech than with more dedicated melee mechs like the Berserker.

On the other hand, I really see no reason to use it with clan forces. Point blank range isn't a place where clan players want their mechs.