Author Topic: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank  (Read 14520 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« on: 20 July 2014, 10:34:38 »


A nice Saturday evening dinner over fajitas with Redshirt produced a discussion about big Lyran tanks, and which ones were really superior to others. Is the Alacorn really the king of Steiner heavy armor? Where do the Demolisher II, the Sturmfeur, the Gurteltier, etc. fit in to that pantheon? And what about the new kid on the block, the Kelswa? Well... hell, why not discuss that last one and find out? Kelswa, ahoy!

Born of a need that Steiner has filled time and again for a big, mean, bruiser of an assault tank, the Kelswa seems at a glance to pale in comparison to its compatriots. But there's more here than one might realize- perhaps it's not a triple-Gauss threat, but there's a lot to like about this tank- and a few surprises, not the least of which is naming it after a family that has been as often a thorn in the ruling Steiner family's side as it has been a staunch ally. The vehicle is a product of Arcturan Arms, with two factories building it and seeing service in several militaries at this point- and even Clan forces. Seeing Jade Falcon-owned Kelswas rolling at them must have caused some very confused reactions for Lyran troops during that Clan's desant into their territory.

The Kelswa's core is a 285 fusion engine, propelling one of the Inner Sphere's largest tanks at a stately but average 54 kph. Nothing to write home about here- it's the same speed assault tanks (and Mechs) have utilized for years, which means a Kelswa will feel right at home with the standard assault formations of whatever military it serves in- and suffer the same problems as a result. One almost has trouble seeing what prompted yet another hefty 3/5 tank to be built by the Lyrans- but we'll look at that later.

Previous articles haven't been good tests for the VotW autocannon, but this time we can pop off a few test rounds to see how the old Kali Yama does. The Kelswa doesn't mind much, after all. Twelve tons of heavy ferro fibrous armor (backed by CASE) gives this brute a shell worthy of its Lyran assault tank lineage, with a whopping seventy points of armor on the front glacis. A very respectable 41 points guard the flanks and rear- enough that the AC-20 here can hit twice and STILL not break through- and 45 more points coat the turret. Breaking a Kelswa will be a matter of motive hits and crits, not breaking the shell. It's hard to fault the Lyrans on this setup- if you're going to build a big, mean assault tank, make it able to survive a few hits.

What's my rule? "Speed, armor, firepower, pick two". We sure didn't pick speed, but we're well-armored. So... we must have guns, and we sure do. Two Gauss rifles might be almost a cliche for an assault-weight unit in Battletech at this point, but it sure works just as well as ever. As one can imagine, these sit in the turret, backed by two heavy machine guns (a weapon this author has never been a fan of compared to the LMG). The rifles share five tons of ammunition, plenty for even long engagements, while the MGs share half a ton of ammunition as well. Two forward mounted ER medium lasers sit in a mounting next to the off-center cockpit, using the fusion engine's heat sinks nicely and providing a bit of extra punch forward. And... wait, there's no 'and'? Where's the rest of the weaponry? This feels almost Succession Wars-esque in its weaponry- perhaps not the specific kind, but in the amount. Why aren't we packing more guns?

Thing is, the Kelswa might come up short in a direct comparison to the Alacorn or Gurteltier, but it shouldn't. While it lacks the triple-threat of the former and the sheer survivability of the latter, the Kelswa does its thing with a fusion engine- NOT an expensive XL motor as the other two use. While that means the engine takes up a sobering 25 tons, it also means a less pricey option for those looking to build up their forces quickly- like, say a Successor State looking to rearm on the fly as the HPG collapse causes chaos and aggressiveness in its neighbors, or for a company looking to sell a budget- but still mighty- assault tank to those neighbors to make some much-needed income. With that in mind, the Kelswa might not be as flashy as those that came before it, but it certainly has the advantage of being cheaper- no small factor in this new era.

Fighting a Kelswa is the same as ever- LBX, SRMs, whatever can get a few motive hits so you can just leave it behind. Those rifles have unfortunately long range, but immobilizing it will at least keep it from being able to move to good firing positions- and with the lasers forward mounted and the heavy MGs almost irrelevant to them, a squad of battle armor swarming an immobilized Kelswa makes for fun times.

Using one is simple as well- it's just like any other big tank with a Gauss rifle- stay back and throw shots until the target comes apart. Nothing again to write home about here- it's so simple a Jade Falcon tanker can do it.

So. Rugged, plain, but wallet-friendly. No variants exist of this brute, so this is all you get for an article. Go on, discuss, and let me know what you'd like to see from this tank in the future as well.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #1 on: 20 July 2014, 10:39:25 »
It is an assault tank.  It does what it needs to (kill things) without being too flashy or fancy.  A "budget" pair of Gauss rifles is never going to be turned down by any army.  I'm a fan.  Simple, effective, yet something that cannot be ignored, forcing my opponent to limit themselves tactically.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #2 on: 20 July 2014, 13:59:41 »
I use a custom tank that's almost identical (90 tons, MLs in the turret, AMS instead of MGs). I love it. It's practical, dependable, economical, and deadly. The Alacorn may have it outgunned, but with more armor and less weapons it's much less of a priority target, meaning it can go on slinging rails downrange for much longer.

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #3 on: 20 July 2014, 14:16:53 »
it is a major signs of how times have changed in  that budget tanks in 3145 have 'merely" a standard fusion.. a century before a standard fusion was an expensive extravagance on a tank. :)

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #4 on: 20 July 2014, 15:00:33 »
I don't see any reason to turn one down.... and I tend to avoid assault units. It lacks speed, but the guns can range anywhere I need them, and it's better armored than the Alacorn, complete with the ability to do the same damage as the venerable Shrek, while concentrating it into only two hit locations.
It's also an important step in tank design..... in the past, Mechs were designed to be omni-purpose --- i.e. the Warhammer 6R, one of the first. It had PPC's, Medium Lasers and SRM's... all great for mech to mech combat, plus small lasers, and machine guns, for anti-infantry (in the rules at the time, small lasers were considered anti-infantry, it's why the Urbanmech has one).........
Over time, mechs have become specialized..... first with designs like the Thunderhawk, focusing on big guns and anti mech/armor high damage punches... and lately, as seen in the Fedcom 3145 Scarecrow, designs for anti infantry. There are also anti-vehicle designs coming out..... and it makes sense that armor should follow. This is clearly an anti-mech/armor defeating design..... and paired with some of the other designs we are seeing, extremely effective, because unlike older tanks with tried to have one of every weapon, in the game, this one is focused, but not a one trick pony, such as seen with the Shrek or Alacorn.......

It's nice to see designs like this, as it really improves the game, itself.

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #5 on: 20 July 2014, 16:42:27 »
I like'em.  They do the job you need them to do.  Provide fire support, and killing power while more maneuverable units can flank the enemy while they try deal with wall of steel behind those Gauss Rifles.

I've tried them in couple battles, each time they held out against nastier forces despite motorcrits dinging them once in while and making it a gun bunker. A Good tank.  It would be scarier if they tried Armor the motive system, it would certainly change odds bit for some situations. 
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #6 on: 20 July 2014, 17:33:31 »
Quote
It would be scarier if they tried Armor the motive system,

That's 15 tons right there. One of your precious Gauss Rifles... gone.

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #7 on: 20 July 2014, 17:58:12 »
Arcturan Arms was a Wolf factory in 3130 and Falcon factory in 3145.  O0

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #8 on: 20 July 2014, 18:47:30 »
The Kelswa largely strikes me as a kinda-sorta upgrade to the old Gaussmolisher. It's got a few more tons of armor, the standard mediums become ERs and it adds the heavy machine guns, but other than that they're pretty much the same tank.

Also, has anyone noticed that its armament is identical to the Carnivore Assault Tank? It makes me wonder if the Kelswa was an attempt to make a homegrown version of the Carnivore.


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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #9 on: 20 July 2014, 19:36:52 »
Identical to the Clan Wolf version of the Carnivore. They export version drops the XL engine, and only carries a single LB-10X compared to the twin gauss.

I find it a nice little touch that the Wolves are selling the export Carnivore to the Lyrans, and ... Wolf-in-Exile. This is well before the increasing ties seen in the later DA books.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #10 on: 20 July 2014, 20:03:55 »
The Kelswa largely strikes me as a kinda-sorta upgrade to the old Gaussmolisher. It's got a few more tons of armor, the standard mediums become ERs and it adds the heavy machine guns, but other than that they're pretty much the same tank.

Pretty much.  The Lyrans didn't have a Demolisher factory at the end of the Jihad.  It doesn't surprise me that with their love of Gauss rifles the Lyrans decided to build a domestic double Gauss platform.

Quote
Also, has anyone noticed that its armament is identical to the Carnivore Assault Tank? It makes me wonder if the Kelswa was an attempt to make a homegrown version of the Carnivore.

The weapons in a list are the same, but besides the putting aside the difference in tech, the HMGs of the Carnivore are side mounted, whereas the Kelswa's are turret mounted.

Also, the Carnivore is a 4/6 80 ton tank, whereas the Kelswa is a 3/5 95 ton tank.  So, while there are some similarities, they aren't exactly the same.  More similar to the Gauss Demolisher, i'd say.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #11 on: 20 July 2014, 22:46:21 »
Also, has anyone noticed that its armament is identical to the Carnivore Assault Tank? It makes me wonder if the Kelswa was an attempt to make a homegrown version of the Carnivore.

They even look similar.

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #12 on: 20 July 2014, 23:36:23 »
Given the Carnivore has an introduction date of 3086(ish), and the Kelswa comes in 3105, I think there's a persuasive case for saying that the Kelswa could be considered the "Carnivore-Ku", if you'll accept the mangled metaphore. 10 tons heavier, and having a strong resemblance in layout if not appearance, it fits the Nova/Blackhawk-Ku and Mad Dog/Avatar pairings of the Kuritans.

And to complete the loop, the Lyrans are exporting Kelswas to both mercenaries, and Clans. Oddly, while the TRO entry refers to finding it in the toumans of "two Clans", one of them seems to be the Jade Falcons. Now the Falcons do talk a good talk, but you wouldn't expect Kelswas to be the easiest of captures. Maybe the Falcoms mobility-crit them to a stop, and then set forest fires around them? The other Clan is presumably Clan Wolf-in-Exile (assuming you count them as a real Clan). Because face it - why would Clan (Real) Wolf buy Kelswas, if they were exporting Carnivores?
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #13 on: 21 July 2014, 00:58:53 »
And to complete the loop, the Lyrans are exporting Kelswas to both mercenaries, and Clans. Oddly, while the TRO entry refers to finding it in the toumans of "two Clans", one of them seems to be the Jade Falcons. Now the Falcons do talk a good talk, but you wouldn't expect Kelswas to be the easiest of captures. Maybe the Falcoms mobility-crit them to a stop, and then set forest fires around them? The other Clan is presumably Clan Wolf-in-Exile (assuming you count them as a real Clan). Because face it - why would Clan (Real) Wolf buy Kelswas, if they were exporting Carnivores?

As Jellico said, one of the Kelswa factory worlds been occupied by the Wolves and Falcons. I think that's what the comment about the Kelswa serving in two toumans refers to.

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #14 on: 21 July 2014, 01:02:56 »
How careless of the Lyrans! I'm sure standards wouldn't have slipped like that if that nice young Thomas Hogarth was in charge ...  :wheelchair:
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #15 on: 21 July 2014, 05:42:27 »
How careless of the Lyrans! I'm sure standards wouldn't have slipped like that if that nice young Thomas Hogarth was in charge ...  :wheelchair:

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #16 on: 21 July 2014, 11:32:45 »
it is a major signs of how times have changed in  that budget tanks in 3145 have 'merely" a standard fusion.. a century before a standard fusion was an expensive extravagance on a tank. :)

That's been the case since the 3060s.

It is an assault tank.  It does what it needs to (kill things) without being too flashy or fancy.  A "budget" pair of Gauss rifles is never going to be turned down by any army.  I'm a fan.  Simple, effective, yet something that cannot be ignored, forcing my opponent to limit themselves tactically.

I'm interested in seeing thoughts about a comparison to the Alacorn Mk XV.  Same size, similar armament levels, but different engines and the details of those armaments create some important distinctions in operational use.  (For one thing, you don't have to fill the tank on a Kelswa operationally.)

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #17 on: 22 July 2014, 01:35:46 »
You know . . . I would like to see a Lyran heavy tank regiment, either LCAF or merc . . . should be good firepower . . . Gurti, Alacorns, maybe export Carnivores, DI Morgan, DI Schmitt, Turtles, and all the other hammering designs.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #18 on: 22 July 2014, 07:43:09 »
Pairing the Kelswa with the Schildkrote could be an interesting scenario. The Kelswa punches holes in the enemy armor, and the Turtles use their LBs for critseeking.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #19 on: 22 July 2014, 08:41:56 »
You could just buy more Schildkrötes for that, though.  8)
But yeh, the Kelswa is a good defensive tank.
Good because it's on a budget. 95 Tons of vehicle for that price is really decent.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #20 on: 22 July 2014, 08:48:38 »
You could just buy more Schildkrötes for that, though.  8)
But yeh, the Kelswa is a good defensive tank.
Good because it's on a budget. 95 Tons of vehicle for that price is really decent.

You'd still have the range issue. The turtle can be picked apart from range. With a Kelswa at its side, that would be much less of an issue.
Looking at it from the C-Bills spent, a garrison unit of Kelswa's and Turtle's can be quite a force to be reckoned with.

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #21 on: 22 July 2014, 11:11:45 »
Pairing the Kelswa with the Schildkrote could be an interesting scenario. The Kelswa punches holes in the enemy armor, and the Turtles use their LBs for critseeking.

I did that when i was trying them out. I had a lance of both variants of the Schildkrote and full on lance of Kelswa.  They are a team to be reckoned with, included hilly heavy woods area.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #22 on: 27 July 2014, 22:24:28 »
I love simple vehicles, this tank has one job and it does it well.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #23 on: 28 July 2014, 10:40:39 »
The cheapness and durability intrigues me. Since I only plan to field the HAG model of the Carnivore, I find myself wondering if a Point of Kelswas might make for a good partner for them. Set up a good firing line, maybe some Demolisher-Cs in covered positions for close defense...see how the Lyrans like their tactics turned right back on them. }:)
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #24 on: 28 July 2014, 18:28:54 »
Likewise, Pair a couple Kelswas with two Schildkrote who would fill those big Gauss holes with LBX or just be evil and use the money you saved on a couple of DI Schmitts.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #25 on: 30 July 2014, 10:51:55 »
To be frank I don't think we really needed an article on the Kelswa- not that the article is bad or the writing is poor, it's just that most battletech players will know what to do with an assault tank mounting 2 Gauss rifles. Take whatever you would have done with an Alacorn and apply it here.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #26 on: 30 July 2014, 13:05:34 »
To be frank I don't think we really needed an article on the Kelswa- not that the article is bad or the writing is poor, it's just that most battletech players will know what to do with an assault tank mounting 2 Gauss rifles. Take whatever you would have done with an Alacorn and apply it here.

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #27 on: 30 July 2014, 13:23:43 »
(Warning: Discussion of a tank very similar to the Alacorn follows. If this offends you, it's too late. You're already in the thread.)



(You were warned.)



While I'm about as big a fan of HMGs as Hellbie is(read: not very much at all), in this case it kinda makes sense. We've seen a lot of talk about firing lines of these tanks setting up and pounding the enemy lines until the cows come home. One way to disrupt such formations is to use VTOLs or other fast transports to drop infantry or BA on top of(or close enough to it) the tanks, forcing them to relocate for fear of getting swarmed or otherwise pecked to death. While HMGs are of minimal use in defending yourself here unless the troops have the bad luck to have to spend a turn or two near your tanks before they get right on top of them, where they will prove useful is in defending the tank right next to you. Infantry move into your buddy's hex, you turn the turret and hose 'em down before they can go for the swarm. You'll purée conventional troops, and if the enemy is battlesuited, you can add the Gauss Rifles into the mix. Even with minimum ranges and all, that's some serious punch to throw into a BA squad.

If you're feeling particularly crazy, you can also use Kelswas to try and dislodge infantry that are holding a patch of terrain you want. Charge straight at them, and you can try aand intimidate them into retreating before the HMGs get into range. (If the terrain in question is a building, use your main guns to rubble it before you get there.)
« Last Edit: 30 July 2014, 13:31:49 by Weirdo »
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misterpants

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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #28 on: 30 July 2014, 16:44:42 »
To be frank I don't think we really needed an article on the Kelswa- not that the article is bad or the writing is poor, it's just that most battletech players will know what to do with an assault tank mounting 2 Gauss rifles. Take whatever you would have done with an Alacorn and apply it here.

In a vacuum, probably.

From a fluff/IC perspective, especially in thematic deployments, there are nuances and aspects that get to be touched upon more greatly outside of raw stats. Much of what has been touched upon in this topic wouldn't apply, for example, if the Kelswa was made by the Brotherhood of Randis, or was a Reunification War Taurian relic.
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Re: VotW: Kelswa Assault Tank
« Reply #29 on: 30 July 2014, 16:47:06 »
(Warning: Discussion of a tank very similar to the Alacorn follows. If this offends you, it's too late. You're already in the thread.)



(You were warned.)



While I'm about as big a fan of HMGs as Hellbie is(read: not very much at all), in this case it kinda makes sense. We've seen a lot of talk about firing lines of these tanks setting up and pounding the enemy lines until the cows come home. One way to disrupt such formations is to use VTOLs or other fast transports to drop infantry or BA on top of(or close enough to it) the tanks, forcing them to relocate for fear of getting swarmed or otherwise pecked to death. While HMGs are of minimal use in defending yourself here unless the troops have the bad luck to have to spend a turn or two near your tanks before they get right on top of them, where they will prove useful is in defending the tank right next to you. Infantry move into your buddy's hex, you turn the turret and hose 'em down before they can go for the swarm. You'll purée conventional troops, and if the enemy is battlesuited, you can add the Gauss Rifles into the mix. Even with minimum ranges and all, that's some serious punch to throw into a BA squad.

If you're feeling particularly crazy, you can also use Kelswas to try and dislodge infantry that are holding a patch of terrain you want. Charge straight at them, and you can try aand intimidate them into retreating before the HMGs get into range. (If the terrain in question is a building, use your main guns to rubble it before you get there.)

Even then though, wouldn't LMGs be better for dealing with those troops before they reach the tanks in the first place? Never mind that if your lines are spread out a little, they can reach out for coverage of your platoon-mates much easier with LMGs than you can with HMGs.

It's a good use for them (I especially like the urban-remodeling idea), but still... just a bad weapon, even here where it makes more sense than usual it still pales to the standard MG and the LMG in particular.
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