Bad Vallejo paints! Bad paint!

[worktroll]

Okay, I've been using Citadel paints for years, although I'm recently moving to the Lifecolour range, with generally good results.

I am not an expert painter. I do not want to be sitting there blending drops of paint. If I want different shades of green, I'll either buy different pots, or use an ink wash, and so on. So I've avoided the Vallejo paints, despite the strong recommendation some painters have made.

So I finally used up my 10-year-old pot of Citadel (old) Scab Red. It's a dark maroon colour, perfect for the detail on Republic Standing Guard, or as a basecoat under Blood Red for Sword of Light, etc.  I now avoid the new Citadel range, as I can't tell if I'm getting a pot of weak tea, toothpaste, or something inbetween alas. So I look through the Lifecolour range. Unfortunately a) the label on the jar obscures the colour largely, and b) the shelf with Lifecolour at my FLHS is at ground level with bad lighting. So I can't find any colour equivalent.

So I decided to take a punt on Vallejo and bought "Dark Red" (Rojo obscoro, or something like that). It looked - through the grey plastic - like it'd be a dark red. I shook it really well; but the pot was so full I don't know how well it worked. I didn't feel much "slosh".

Anyway, mini in front of me, paintbrush standing by, I put a drop of "Dark Red" on my working area (in this case, a plastic hex base in absentia of a pallette). And ...

****ing raspberry yoghurt. Dull pinkish red. That aint' what we call dark red down here. Strike one.

I abandon that paintjob and do some work on my Galedon Regulars, with nice grey paint and brown ink wash.

8 hours later, I come back down to my man cave, and see the drop of raspberry yoghurt seems the same size. I poke it, and ... it's wet. Still just as wet. No skin, no drying out. Acrylics don't do that, man - I've lost whole paint pots in less time than that! So strike 2 ... and amost probably out.

So I'll be trying some other hobby stores, where the Lifecolour range hopefull has better racking position. And if forced I'll pick up a medium red and some black, or a medium brown and some red, and mix me a whole pot once, so I get consistent colours (had to do this for my Donegal regiment when I dried out my pot of Shadow Grey).

Or is there some mystic ritual to do with Vallejo paints I know not and have omitted? Should I drip before or after midnight only? Is a minute of hand shaking enough, or should I strap the jar to the washing machine for a full cycle?

I'd heard so much about Vallejo that this experience has somewhat embitterend me (if you didn't guess). Comments/discussion invited.

W.

[NeonKnight]

sounds like this may be of use

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/media/ffaec40fee318838a2ede0a267faef4e.cms/cc072-rev10.pdf

And this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

Sounds like the Rojo Escarlata. I think you want the Rojo Visceral (Gory Red)

Also, I highly recommend picking up one of these:
http://robart.com/products/hobby-paint-shaker-electric-100-240v

Just put the little pot of paint in, push the button, walk away for 5 mins, and nice mix paint.

[worktroll]

The colour charts are very useful, thank you!

The shaker - I've been painting models, enamel & acrylic, for almost 40 years. That's never been anything I've ever been aware of within the ancients, Napoleonics, 1:35th ww2, injection plastic model, vacuum plastic model, or metal mini hobby. Heck, I was at the Aussie IMPS last month- they had all sorts of tools and rigs, including 3D printers, but I've never seen any one of them.

I reserve the right to call "I'm too old for that beeswax"  ;)

Any commend about the not drying? This was, as mentioned, a blob about the size of a half-melted pea. I trust in thin layers it dries faster. The absence of a significant surface skin also was odd.

[GunjiNoKanrei]

Any commend about the not drying? This was, as mentioned, a blob about the size of a half-melted pea. I trust in thin layers it dries faster. The absence of a significant surface skin also was odd.

I use a lot of Vallejo Colors, mostly from the Model Color range, but also Panzer Aces and others. Except for the Game Color range, which I avoid like the plague. I had this happen to Vallejo Model Color paints once or twice. It was either a paint that had been standing around unused for a looooooong time or was fresh from store (where, I assume, it had been standing in the paint rack for a looooooong time). I didn't even try to save those. It was straight to the bin.

Vallejo paints are notorious for separating, some colors more than others. This might be the explanation for what is happening with your paint, both with the strange color and with the not drying. Remove the tip of the bottle and give it a good stir with a toothpick. Then throw in a small glass bead (something metal-y works too, just make sure it doesn't react with the paint over time), replace the tip of the bottle and shake it like crazy. When you think you shook it enough, shake it some more. Leave the bead in there, it will serve you well as an agitator.

This might do the trick...

[worktroll]

I'll try that, thanks  O0

[NeonKnight]

That's why I use the shaker now, more so for paitn's I have not used in a while/brand new, to give em a good mixing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q9KLN4HVEw

With regard to the SNAP LIDS like on the Citadel Paints. I just take some heavy duty elestics to wrap on the Bottle to hold lid closed.

[SteelWarrior]

The bright colored Game colors are a pain



Best $8 I ever did spend, stick this sucker in once in a blue moon and you get a perfect mix, perfect paint every time, worth every second it takes to do it.


PS:  Also when I switched from Citadel Scab red, I think I went to Vallejo Game Color Gory red, which was almost spot on

[cavingjan]

It sounds like it just separated a little. The toothpick approach should work just fine. I use a reciprocating saw as a shaker. Nothing like industrial power to convince paint to go back together.

[mdauben]

****ing raspberry yoghurt. Dull pinkish red. That aint' what we call dark red down here. Strike one.

Sounds like you didn't shake it well enough.  One bad thing about Vallejo, is that they (especially the Model Color line) settle hard.  It takes a lot of vigoruous shaking to mix them properly.  If I have not used a bottle for a while I shake it until my arm is tired, switch to the other and and shake until that arm is tired and it may be enough.  Some people pry the dropper end off, drop a BB in, and replace the dropper to help them mix better when your shake them. 

Vallejo is IMO great paint but it does have its quirks.   ;)

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

  I've never had that particular problem with a paint that I have just bought. That is an occasional problem with certain brands that have sat for long periods of time and are in sore need of a good stirring.

  Tips:
Buy your paints from a shop with a good turnaround and keeps regular restocking -Buying discounted paints is always a gamble.

Buy glass beads from a hobby shop to use as stirrers. BBs work but may react to the paints. Sometimes I just toss in old pewter sprue bits and that works, too.

Know your brands and read the reviews on them. I have 8 oz Acrylic paints in tubes I bought in 1981 that are as fresh as the day I bought them. I still use them today.

[God and Davion]

I use a lot of Vallejo Colors, mostly from the Model Color range, but also Panzer Aces and others. Except for the Game Color range, which I avoid like the plague. I had this happen to Vallejo Model Color paints once or twice. It was either a paint that had been standing around unused for a looooooong time or was fresh from store (where, I assume, it had been standing in the paint rack for a looooooong time). I didn't even try to save those. It was straight to the bin.

Vallejo paints are notorious for separating, some colors more than others. This might be the explanation for what is happening with your paint, both with the strange color and with the not drying. Remove the tip of the bottle and give it a good stir with a toothpick. Then throw in a small glass bead (something metal-y works too, just make sure it doesn't react with the paint over time), replace the tip of the bottle and shake it like crazy. When you think you shook it enough, shake it some more. Leave the bead in there, it will serve you well as an agitator.

This might do the trick...

I agree. First of all, Vallejo Game Color was cool many years but there were several colors that just plain sucked, like yellows and reds (one is too dark, the other is too orange, using both of them leads to a very unrealistic effect. Yellows and light browns were the suck, too. Too diluted. They lack coverage. Their model color range is way better. Reds and yellows are better and you are almost free from issues. Finally, avoid Vallejo metallic paints. I use GW instead and they are far, far better.

[SteelWarrior]

Vallejo air metallics > citadel metallics

Ill conceed GW is better then the Game Color metals though

[mdauben]

I agree. First of all, Vallejo Game Color was cool many years but there were several colors that just plain sucked, like yellows and reds (one is too dark, the other is too orange, using both of them leads to a very unrealistic effect. Yellows and light browns were the suck, too. Too diluted. They lack coverage. Their model color range is way better. Reds and yellows are better and you are almost free from issues. Finally, avoid Vallejo metallic paints. I use GW instead and they are far, far better.

Model Color of course was the original and what Vallejo made their rep with.  The only problem (if you can call it that) was that it lacked a lot of the bright, "fantasy" colors gamers wanted.  The Game Color line was (sort of) and attempt by Vallejo to create something similar to the then current GW line of paints to attract the huge WFB/40K crowd to their products.  In an attempt to give the gamers something they were familiar with, it has some of the same flaws as the old GW paints (crappy red and yellow coverage, etc.).  I too use mainly Model Color, but I do have a set of Game Color paints when I want to try and replicate a GW paint job, or just need a bright purple color.   ;)

[DarkSpade]

A note on the beads, don't use metal.    I had a hobby store owner recommend BBs for mixing my paint so I tried it.  Had to throw some of the colors and a brush on varnish away because the BB corroded in the paint and ruined them.   Mentioned it to a game shop owner and he told me to never use a metal bead as you have no idea how it's going to react to the paint. As an example he told me about the time he personally saw metal bead in some metallic paint more or less become a battery.

If you use beads(and you should, they're great), use plastic or glass.

[greatsarcasmo]

I'll agree with metal bbs, even stainless steel ones.
http://commonplacemodeler.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/rust-monster-or-dont-use-zinc-coated-bbs-in-your-acyrlic-paint/


Also, don't shake Vallejo, roll it between your hands or put the bottle in a drill (set to rotate the opposite way of un-twisting the cap).

[SteelWarrior]

I'll agree with metal bbs, even stainless steel ones.
http://commonplacemodeler.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/rust-monster-or-dont-use-zinc-coated-bbs-in-your-acyrlic-paint/


Also, don't shake Vallejo, roll it between your hands or put the bottle in a drill (set to rotate the opposite way of un-twisting the cap).

Like this!!!

[greatsarcasmo]

A. I already own a drill.
B. I dont want the mess of taking out the dripper insert to use the mixer.
C. Will that even fit in a Vallejo bottle?

[Cache]

Also, don't shake Vallejo, roll it between your hands or put the bottle in a drill (set to rotate the opposite way of un-twisting the cap).

High RPM or low?

[greatsarcasmo]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N0aaFxDc-IY

[Cache]

I like that it doesn't bubble when you open it.  I'll have to give it a try, though I may modify a spare lid to fit the chuck better.  Thank you!

[greatsarcasmo]

No problem. I actually was turned on to this by another post where a guy made a real easy adapter for Vallejo to use in the drill, but for the life of me, I can't it again.

[greatsarcasmo]

Dur.
http://billsravingrant.blogspot.com/2014/01/tools-2-paint-rollermixer-for-valejo.html

That's it.

[cavingjan]

Now that is an idea. Between this and the reciprocating saw rig I have, I think I have everything covered. I do like this as I can easily keep the cordless drill by the paint table.

[greatsarcasmo]

Yea, I'm thinking of putting all (or almost all) of my paint in dropper bottles (Boston Rounds) primarily for airbrushing but also for the ease of stirring I could pull of for this. Also, for just adding a drop or two for the wet palette for hand brushing.

[Cache]

http://billsravingrant.blogspot.com/2014/01/tools-2-paint-rollermixer-for-valejo.html

That's it.

Brilliant!

[worktroll]

If I've got to choose between using a paint that needs to be strapped to a running power tool for 5 minutes before using, or one which produces a consistent and workable job after some hand shaking ... then I won't be buying Vallejo paints.

Thanks for the advice, albeit it made my mind up in the other direction :)

[GunjiNoKanrei]

If I've got to choose between using a paint that needs to be strapped to a running power tool for 5 minutes before using, or one which produces a consistent and workable job after some hand shaking ... then I won't be buying Vallejo paints.

While I must admit the look on my wife's face would be priceless if I'd start using a drill to stir/roll my paints, I feel this is overkill. Honestly, don't let your onetime experience and the above posts mislead you. Yes, Vallejo paints have a tendency to separate, some more than others (Dark Sea Blue I am looking at you ...). But I have been using those paints for years and I just give them a quick shake (or long like-crazy shake when I haven't used the paint for some time) before using them - the same shake I give every miniature paint - and only have three or four bottles with an agitator.

You don't need a power tool, paint shaker, paint stirrer, fancy gadget x in my opinion. YMMV of course *shrug*

[greatsarcasmo]

Yes, I was showing the drill set-up as a cheap alternative to a specially mixer.

And the 'rolling' of the Vallejo (and I would assume other droppers) rather then shaking minimizes the weird paint bubble you get when you go to doll out some paint.

Most of my paints sit for long periods of time, as when I paint, I paint the same scheme over a period of time, so while those are mixed everything else has a tendency to separate. And that's not just Vallejo. While I find most Vallejo paints to be the best brushing paints I've ever used, I also have also used just about every other hobby paint on the planet with some niche exceptions.

So please, don't give up on Vallejo, they are great brush paints and I'm really happy I have them on my rack.
 

[Saatch]

I don't mind Vallejos, I have some of their collections which are useful. Some of their WWII sets are wonderful. I use them regularly, mainly because I have them on hand.

But yes, some of their colors separate, and some don't freaking ever come back to life no matter how hard/long you shake, agitate with sprue bits (and, um, if it's corroding my sprue bits, I've got bigger problems with the paint I guess) or stir with wire.

So, when I reorder, I just go with Army Painter or Citadel these days. My experience with them is way more consistent. I'm not spending 10 minutes on a bottle to get it where it should be anyway. Screw that.

[SteelWarrior]

Ive been using Vallejo air alot both in my airbrush and even normal brush.  Great paint, about a dollar more but it comes out of the bottle nice and thin, you wont get coverage in 1 pass but its great for layering.  The cockpits on my mechs have been coming out great since i started using the air series for everything