Author Topic: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?  (Read 2052 times)

Orwell84

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Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« on: 25 July 2014, 23:59:57 »
We all know the long-term answer; here I'm thinking of the period between Tukayyid and Operation Bulldog. IIRC, the worlds 'above' Tukayyid were fair game and could be struck with impunity, yet no one seems to have added to their OZs at a time when the Inner Sphere was at its weakest. Was it because all of the important targets worth having were 'beneath' the line?

Obviously the Wolves and Bears were stuck, but expanding into the FedCom or Combine might have been a way for the Steel Vipers or Nova Cats to carve out their own de facto OZs, get out from under the Falcon or Jaguars. Or for the Diamond Sharks to re-join the invaders - "we'll take some Lyran worlds and get our seat back at the invaders' table, plus have some Spheroid merchants to swindle!"
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Archangel

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #1 on: 26 July 2014, 02:08:29 »
There were several valuable worlds above the Truce line available to the Jade Falcons, Steel Vipers, Smoke Jaguars and Nova Cats.  However, either the worlds were heavily defended (such as Luthien and Pesht), too deep within enemy territory (meaning that one would either have to seize several other worlds or risk the assigned garrison unit being isolated) was in the wrong direction (not in the direction of Terra) or any combination of the three (such as Coventry which was both deep within enemy territory nor did it lie in the direction of Terra).

The Diamond Sharks were not fully activation to participate in the invasion.  They had replace the Steel Vipers as the Reserve Clan once the Vipers and the Nova Cats were activated.  Besides, the Sharks had suffered devastating losses on Tukayyid with both participating front-line galaxies being decimated and the single second-line Omega Galaxy cluster being annihilated sacrificing itself at the end to allow the surviving front-line forces to retreat.  Soon afterwards two more Omega Galaxy clusters were lost to the Ghost Bears when they reclaimed Nyserta.  After such devastating losses the Sharks were in no position to even consider an offensive lest the other Homeworld Clans sense their weakness and try to take advantage.

As for the Vipers or Nova Cats claiming their own invasion corridor, that would offer them no advantage.  Not only would it make things easier for their respective rival Clans by creating a buffer zone for them but it would also length their supply lines.  To make matters worse, those worlds are likely to be well-defended by units that no longer see the Clans as an unbeatable foe so the fighting for those worlds are likely to be bloody.  Not to mention that neither the Jaguars nor the Falcons would sit idly by while their rivals seek to expand their power and influence.

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Lazarus Jaguar

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #2 on: 26 July 2014, 05:19:48 »
The Falcons did attack Morges soon after Tukayyid.  Didnt work out too well for them
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ActionButler

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #3 on: 27 July 2014, 21:46:59 »
Wasn't Coventry 'north' of the truce line?
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Vition

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #4 on: 27 July 2014, 21:58:20 »
Yes, but it was far enough away that the Falcons would have needed to capture a fifth or sixth of the remaining Lyran worlds to get to it and secure it and its surroundings. 

ActionButler

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #5 on: 27 July 2014, 22:13:41 »
Good point
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #6 on: 28 July 2014, 16:29:50 »
But they did try, getting all the way to Coventry in the offensive that led to the reformation of the Star League.
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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #7 on: 28 July 2014, 16:46:06 »
But they did try, getting all the way to Coventry in the offensive that led to the reformation of the Star League.

It was a half hearted attempt really mostly just to blood their warriors I don't think the falcons could have ever held those worlds even if Marthe ever wanted to
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Meow Liao

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #8 on: 28 July 2014, 17:39:00 »
But they did try, getting all the way to Coventry in the offensive that led to the reformation of the Star League.

Well, not quite.  Quote from Falcon Incursion

Quote
The only difference between the original invasion and now was this time the Falcons had no interests in holding the systems. As soon as the battle was concluded, the attackers packed up their equipment, their bondsmen, and moved on to the next destination content with the warm-up they had received.

Actually taking the planets would have given the clan troops the needed combat experience, and it could have been done in a way that did not seriously stretch the Falcon border with the Lyrans.  This seems unclanish to throw troops into battle just to gain experience.  Dead, wounded, and materiel losses for no gain.  Seems wasteful to me.

Perhaps the six years after Tukayyid were occupied with integrating new territories and inter-clan politics.  Maybe the clans simply couldn't spare the resources at the time to expand their zones.

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Archangel

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #9 on: 28 July 2014, 18:25:58 »
Actually taking the planets would have given the clan troops the needed combat experience, and it could have been done in a way that did not seriously stretch the Falcon border with the Lyrans.

The Falcons did take the planets, gained combat experience in the process and then by refusing to hold onto them it did not stretch their border with the Lyrans.  Besides there was more than the border with the Lyrans to consider, there was also the Viper threat and the possibility of the invasion starting within a few years.

Quote
This seems unclanish to throw troops into battle just to gain experience.  Dead, wounded, and materiel losses for no gain.  Seems wasteful to me.

I don't see Marthe Pryde's actions as either unclanish or wasteful.  The Falcon touman was decimated after their war with the Wolves and then having to give up Vlad's Wolves.  In addition to having a large number of unblooded and untested warriors, the Falcons were afraid of appearing weak to the other Clans (especially after their lackluster performance in the Refusal War and Crichell's death in front of the Grand Council) and potentially face a call for their absorption by another Clan.  They needed a strong showing and they needed to blood the untested warriors from Crichell's secret sibkos.  Her campaign accomplished both.  While she may have lost some warriors including some potential ristars, she was able to blood a large number of warriors rebuilding her Clan's touman far faster than through conventional means.  It also helped deter Lyran adventurism by weakening their border defenses and making them pull their raiders back in case the Falcons were launching a major invasion.
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Nav_Alpha

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #10 on: 28 July 2014, 18:50:10 »
The whole point of the campaign was to blood her troops - effectively a live fire training op.
And ultimately, what did she loose? Anyone lost was clearly not good enough to measure up.

I think it's a pretty classic clan method - remember, a sibko's training is mostly live fire, including a full on possibly to the death trial of position to cap it off.
These people don't muck around when it comes to blooding green troops


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CungrVanck

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Re: Did the Clans try to take any worlds after Tukayyid?
« Reply #11 on: 30 July 2014, 12:35:07 »
As stated earlier, the Ghost Bears took a world from the Diamond Sharks.  Then you had the Wolves take a minor world or two from the Ghost Bears.  The Nova Cats and the Smoke Jaguars were skirmishing with each other as well as dealing with rampant uprisings, guerrillas wars and Combine raids into their territory.  After Tukayyid, the Steel Vipers took several worlds from the Jade Falcons.  So most of the fighting was between the Clans instead of further expansion into the Inner Sphere.

Other than those minor conflicts and the Red Corsair incident, the Clans were busy recovering from massive losses, building a proper supply system, integrating a huge civilian population/industrial base and dealing with a major loss in morale for losing on Tukayyid.  Add in that the FedCom and Combine had time to move troops to the front line and upgrade the tech of many of those units and any individual Clan didn't want to start a campaign by themselves.  The nail that sticks out gets hammered.