Star Wars help needed: ISD's guns?

[Weirdo]

I know full well that the information I seek may not actually exist, but I gotta ask: Where the heck are the Ion Cannons on an Imperial-class Star Destroyer?!? I've found and IDed all but four of the turbolasers(and thus established firing arcs for them), but I can only find sixteen of the ion cannons, the ones found in the main broadside turrets. Does anyone have any insight as to where the remaining 44 guns might be? This is driving me nuts.

Thanks for any help you might have!

(Note: If you have no idea, or have an answer that is or can be summed up as 'scattered around the hull in random locations, do us both a favor and please do not hit the 'Post' button. Useful information only, please.)

(Note 2, Technobabble Boogaloo: Any similar insight regarding the Imperial II, either Victory, Executor, or Liberty classes would also be appreciated. Again, only information that would be useful in determining precise firing arcs. Thanks.)

[Scotty]

Are you considering multiple barrels to be single or separate gun systems?  I'm... not a hundred percent sure, but I think the ion cannons might be counted double.  Those are some pretty big barrels.

[Weirdo]

I'd like to acknowledge individual barrels. A single turret that was a Millenium Falcon-style quad mount would be four guns for the purposes of my count. For example, the sixteen I do know about are grouped into two massive turrets, since the ISD's main turrets are each eight-gun batteries. (This also helps account for forty-eight of the turbolasers, for example.)

[Scotty]

Something else that might help would be to examine the ISD from Empire at War, and see where the turret subsystems on it are mounted.  They might not technically exist on the real thing, but you could at least get a clue if you're coming up bare.  Likewise, the turrets on an ISD in X-wing.

[Weirdo]

Man, I wish I still had X-Wing. That and TIE Fighter were both awesome games.

Empire at War?

[Scotty]

Empire at War was the Star Wars RTS/galaxy conquering game.  ISDs were in game, with maybe six distinct guns?  I don't know if the guns would actually fit where guns would on a real one, but it could give you a couple clues.

[Liam's Ghost]

The actual number of guns on a star destroyer seems to vary from source to source, so there may be no answer

[Weirdo]

True, though the figure of 60 Turbolasers and 60 Ion Cannons is the most common one, so that's the one I'm going with. Of course, for other ships like the Impstar Deuce or Executor there will likely be a lot of guesswork.

[guardiandashi]

I know its rather general information, but the stats I have for an imperial II say it has:

50 heavy turbolasers 4 batteries front, 3 left 3 right
50 turbolasers in 4 front batteries, 2 right 2 left, 2 batteries rear
20 heavy ion cannons 2 batteries front 1 right 1 left
10 tractor beam projectors 6 front, 2 right 2 left

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/CanisD/Shipyard/Drawings/SW/StarDestroyers.png
might help some
http://98.131.64.103/starwars/images/vsd-eg1.gif
may help for a victory

note these stats were from the D20 starships of the galaxy book.
the Executor as a super star destroyer has an absolutely insane amount of firepower.
250 turbolasers 20 batteries forward, 15 left 15 right 15 aft
250 heavy turbolasers 20 batteries front, 10 left, 10 right 10 rear
assault concussion missile tubes 250 30 missiles ea, 10 batteries front, 15 left, 15 right, 10 rear
heavy ion cannons 250 20 batteries front, 10 right, 10 left, 10 rear
40 tractor beams 20 front, 10 left, 10 right 10 rear (doesn't add up but ...)

[Liam's Ghost]

If I recall, a number of sources (including the endor battle scene in return of the jedi) suggest that at least a portion of the ship's firepower is set into the "trenches" down each side. (I used to have a gif of a star destroyer and frigate trading fire which would be a great illustration, but I can't find it now).

I also looked up its wookiepedia entry, but it proved... unhelpful, as it seemed to be discussing a different interpretation of the weapons.

[Fallen_Raven]

I remember reading that most the Ion Cannons are in the first step of the terraced super structure. They run along the sides of that section. The source being half remembered bits from the WotC roleplaying game, so I recommend someone fact checking that. I can't guarantee which verision of the Imperial class it applies to though.

[worktroll]

This image tends to support Fallen_Raven's recollection. Although note use of the word "(typical)" ...

[I am Belch II]

There was 16 per broadside of something on each ISD.  I always though that ion cannons were different then the turbo lasers, because on fighters like the y-wing and b-wing they had different guns for each.

[Orin J.]

This image tends to support Fallen_Raven's recollection. Although note use of the word "(typical)" ...

yeah, the ion cannons are largely embedded in the sides of those elevations, normally, but i've seen a couple of sources state that the number & placement of secondary weapons like ion cannons varies between individual destroyers. i highly doubt you're going to find a concrete diagram of where they're located, but post it if you see it!

i guess when you're building a continent for space travel and planetary suppression, identical designs make way for individual improvements and projected role optimization.

[Stormlion1]

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/isd.html#weaponry

[Kitsune413]

Star Wars the old Republic is free to play and if you do the space missions shows you gun placement on some of the older capital ships.

Those old flight on rails versions would help since they put targeting reticles on each gun.

[rebs]

I know full well that the information I seek may not actually exist, but I gotta ask: Where the heck are the Ion Cannons on an Imperial-class Star Destroyer?!? I've found and IDed all but four of the turbolasers(and thus established firing arcs for them), but I can only find sixteen of the ion cannons, the ones found in the main broadside turrets. Does anyone have any insight as to where the remaining 44 guns might be? This is driving me nuts.

Thanks for any help you might have!

(Note: If you have no idea, or have an answer that is or can be summed up as 'scattered around the hull in random locations, do us both a favor and please do not hit the 'Post' button. Useful information only, please.)

(Note 2, Technobabble Boogaloo: Any similar insight regarding the Imperial II, either Victory, Executor, or Liberty classes would also be appreciated. Again, only information that would be useful in determining precise firing arcs. Thanks.)

Don't hate on me if this info isn't deemed useful  ;) 

Rule of thumb on Star Destroyers is 90% of all firepower can be concentrated forward due to the wedge design, regardless of the specific type of Star Destroyer.  Logically, this pretty much dictates that nearly all of the turbolasers and ion cannons are arranged along the forward firing angles.  If you find any technical sketches, you'll note the recessed decks along the forward edges of most designs.  This is where most of the ship's batteries are located, from what I remember.

Other than that, send in ten proofs of purchase to Kuat Drive Yards (make sure to clearly address it to the core region, or it will get lost) and they'll send you a holographic collector's addition blueprint of the Avenger Class ISD.   ;D

[Weirdo]

I remember reading that most the Ion Cannons are in the first step of the terraced super structure. They run along the sides of that section. The source being half remembered bits from the WotC roleplaying game, so I recommend someone fact checking that. I can't guarantee which verision of the Imperial class it applies to though.

I like this. It reinforces the ISD's role as a broadside fighter, but also allows for a fair amount of chasing firepower. I think I can work with this, and simply fiddle with the torbolaser/ion cannon ratios to produce the ISD II.

(I'm not one of those who believes that the wedge shape meands that ISDs can focus the majority of their firepower forward. If that were the case, there would have been only one scene of the Falcon being chased by a Star Destroyer instead of many, and that scene would have ended after the first ISD-sized wall of light vaporized our heroes.)

[Fallen_Raven]

(I'm not one of those who believes that the wedge shape meands that ISDs can focus the majority of their firepower forward. If that were the case, there would have been only one scene of the Falcon being chased by a Star Destroyer instead of many, and that scene would have ended after the first ISD-sized wall of light vaporized our heroes.)

The same WotC source indicated that the heavy link-fire mounts have restricted arcs. The wedge shape allows forward firepower, but only from the light mounts which are actually pretty sparse.

[Weirdo]

Yeah, that fits with most scenes in movies and books. Being chased by a Star Destroyer is no fun, but it's a chase instead of a slaughter simply because it can't bring more than a small fraction of its firepower to bear. What it can point at you is still scary, but it could be a LOT worse.

[Stormlion1]

Your all missing the big picture, its not that the guns couldn't all face forward on a Star Destroyer and vaporize whatever target was in front of them. It was that the Empire trained the gunners and couldn't hit the broadside of the barn if they were standing inside it with the doors closed.

[Xtrahmxwohld]

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/isd.html#weaponry

I remember that site. I'm actually credited for pointing out what Curtis thought was a bridge was actually a spray can.

[I am Belch II]

It is a great site. I wanted to know more fluff on the Super Destroyer when I got the big Lego Model of it.

[Shin Yodama]

For exact location, this guy seems to have done a bit of research, but how accurate it is?

[Weirdo]

If what I recall of Full Thrust is accurate, that thing is ****** HUGE!!! :o

What'd he do, decide that normal Full Thrust cruisers were the size of X-Wings or something?

[rebs]

(I'm not one of those who believes that the wedge shape meands that ISDs can focus the majority of their firepower forward. If that were the case, there would have been only one scene of the Falcon being chased by a Star Destroyer instead of many, and that scene would have ended after the first ISD-sized wall of light vaporized our heroes.)

The Falcon had the advantage of being sought after intact with the crew alive.   :)   But, I did think the same exact thing for a minute after I hit enter.  But the figure is from somewhere in the depths of SW game/EU canon, though as we know, canon is debatable and subjective.  It is expressly mentioned for their value during Base Delta Zero operations or in taking down larger vessels.

[Vehrec]

The Falcon had the advantage of being sought after intact with the crew alive.   :)   But, I did think the same exact thing for a minute after I hit enter.  But the figure is from somewhere in the depths of SW game/EU canon, though as we know, canon is debatable and subjective.  It is expressly mentioned for their value during Base Delta Zero operations or in taking down larger vessels.

If the Star Destroyers were designed for fire-forward, charging into battle, their main guns would be superfiring or eschaloned outwards along the sweep of the hull instead of being in a row straight back.  But in a broadside fight, that means half the guns are either sitting useless, or unpowered depending on reactor outputs and heatsinks.  No wonder the Star Destroyers fell to pieces at Endor-that kind of confusing general melee with battle from all directions was the very antithesis of their design.

The real problem here, of course, is that there's not going to be many sources that take the time to create a physical gun barrel for each bolt to come out of.  Fractalsponge is the only guy I know of to deal in that level of detail-feel free to check out his other Star Destroyers when visiting his site.

[Orin J.]

If the Star Destroyers were designed for fire-forward, charging into battle, their main guns would be superfiring or eschaloned outwards along the sweep of the hull instead of being in a row straight back.  But in a broadside fight, that means half the guns are either sitting useless, or unpowered depending on reactor outputs and heatsinks.

if memory serves, most Star destroyers had enough firepower that very little could stand up to half their firepower at the time, and their slabby armor and shields let them drive a wedge (geez, sorry) into the enemy lines and fire on both sides. so pick where you want a hole in the enemy naval formation, remove the ship there with all your firepower in the forward arc, then divert to the sides and clear out nearby cruisers or pump another broadside into the support line as needed (while disgorging tie-fighters like you left a discount seafood buffet).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

(I'm not one of those who believes that the wedge shape meands that ISDs can focus the majority of their firepower forward. If that were the case, there would have been only one scene of the Falcon being chased by a Star Destroyer instead of many, and that scene would have ended after the first ISD-sized wall of light vaporized our heroes.)

I don't think it was from a canon source, but in addition to the already mentioned part about the SDs not actually trying to kill the Falcon, I believe I saw some references that said that Star Destroyers weren't capable of bringing most of their guns to bear on a target the size of the Falcon at one time.  As seen with the Death Star, the Empire really didn't consider small ships to be serious threats and consequently built their capitol ships to fight other capitol ships at the expense of point-defense capability.

[Weirdo]

Yup. That's why it took them so long to properly deploy things like Lancers.