Campaign Rules: Against the Bot thread #3

[monbvol]

AtB does not recognize solo mech forces if you organize your TO&E this way but there are a couple options you can do:

1:  Manually edit the bot forces in the MM lobby.  I've had to do this more than once to get fights down to a winnable level.

2:  Use Quirks and SPAs to improve your forces a bit.  I've also wound up doing this just because I seem to wind up with so many fights in poor conditions against superior foes and it is easier then manually editing enemy forces in the MM lobby.

[scJazz]

can't you just add reinforcements in MM? Toss in an extra lance or something?

[RahTol]

AtB does not recognize solo mech forces if you organize your TO&E this way but there are a couple options you can do:

AtB uses lance weight correct? So if you have a 'medium' lance and only put in a 'light' lance worth of forces, the AtB mod should generate forces to oppose a light lance, then fight them with a medium lance instead, thus an 'easy'(er) fight.

can't you just add reinforcements in MM? Toss in an extra lance or something?

Well, yes, but MHQ dose not recognize 'reinforcements' as deployed, so it would not update those units properly, there are ways to make it work, but it's more of a pain then monbvol's edit enemy forces.

[monbvol]

AtB seems to regenerate based on what actually gets deployed or develop other issues trying such a work around.  So for now the two options I listed are your best bets.

[Arkaris]

Question about difficulty, "Ultra Green" will still turn out battles that are tough, at least relatively for a newbie (in this case a pre-teen.) I was wondering if you could "cheat" and just put one mech into the TO&E until a fight was generated then un-deploy, add the rest of your team and re-deploy to get really easy fights.

For a lance to be considered playable it requires at least 3 mechs.  I highly recommend hand picking your own units and taking jump capable meds and lights until you get good.  Considering an assault lance can generate to 12 units (plus reinforcements) for the Opfor, while most light lances will face 4 + some number of tanks.

[kilgs]

Just a note...

-Prisoners do not work as automated. Have to manually remove all of them and add the money by hand.

-Also I've been on a Garrison mission, with Enemy at Rout, for over 4 months... something I said? Is early completion (via Rout) automated in the build? I tried doing it manually but it did not calculate any early success bonus.

[Scotty]

I still have no idea how to tell whether a prisoner wants to defect or not.

[neoancient]

AtB uses lance weight correct? So if you have a 'medium' lance and only put in a 'light' lance worth of forces, the AtB mod should generate forces to oppose a light lance, then fight them with a medium lance instead, thus an 'easy'(er) fight.

Well, yes, but MHQ dose not recognize 'reinforcements' as deployed, so it would not update those units properly, there are ways to make it work, but it's more of a pain then monbvol's edit enemy forces.

By default, MHQ requires that a lance have at least 3 and no more than 6 ground units (including attached employer units), and not exceed 390 tons (excluding attached employer units).* The AtB tab in the campaign options gives you the option to disregard these limits. A better option for making battles easier, in my opinion, is to remove some of the enemy units in the MM lobby.

*As part of unofficial support for Clan and ComStar/WoB units, I've increased the limits proportionally when playing one of those factions and Clan units count points rather than individual units.

-Also I've been on a Garrison mission, with Enemy at Rout, for over 4 months... something I said? Is early completion (via Rout) automated in the build? I tried doing it manually but it did not calculate any early success bonus.

Rout equals early success on non-garrison type contracts. On garrison type it gives you 1d6-3 (minimum 1) months with no enemy activity.

A question I have for Makinus on this: When the activity starts again, does the enemy morale reset to normal or is the morale rolled as usual through the respite period? MHQ does the latter, but in my own campaign I've had several months when the initial period ended it was still at rout. I may end up riding the final year of the contract out like this (not that I mind getting paid for sitting around doing nothing).

[Felime]

Just a note...

-Prisoners do not work as automated. Have to manually remove all of them and add the money by hand.

-Also I've been on a Garrison mission, with Enemy at Rout, for over 4 months... something I said? Is early completion (via Rout) automated in the build? I tried doing it manually but it did not calculate any early success bonus.

Make sure automated prisoner handling is on. It should spam a bunch of 50k ledger entries every time you capture prisoners. Believe you still need to remove them manually.

I still have no idea how to tell whether a prisoner wants to defect or not.

What SHOULD happen is that when you complete a battle, it pops up a bunch of log entries saying which prisoners you capture and after each prisoner, if they defect it'll tell you. You have to manually switch defectors yourself and remove the ones who don't, or that you don't want to accept. No idea if there's any way to tell after you advance a day. Might show up in the log, but I haven't checked.


Of course, I'm a version behind on playing, so things may have changed slightly, but I don't think so. It's also what SHOULD happen. Bugs are always possible, but don't know of anyone actually having that not work yet.

[neoancient]

See attached screenshot to see where the prisoner information appears following a battle. It does not appear in a log, so you need to act on the information presented or record it before advancing a day. MHQ does not automatically process defections because it is up to the player whether to accept defections. It also does not automatically remove other prisoners because that is, again, the player's decision. Easier prisoner processing is not that far off, but for now MHQ only handles the most tedious parts, which are the rolls to see which personnel are captured and whether they defect.

[kilgs]

Yeah, odd. I've never seen that but maybe I've just never convinced anyone to defect  :P

[kilgs]

I just passed the five month mark on a Garrison since the last deployment. All five months enemy has been at Rout.

(Also, I've looked throughout Campaign Options and can't find an Automated Prisoner option. I have Randomize Enemy Capture/Prisoners but don't see anything else.)

EDIT: Six months... any thoughts what's wrong?

EDIT: Seven months. Now something is definitely wrong. Using 1970 version.

[neoancient]

(Also, I've looked throughout Campaign Options and can't find an Automated Prisoner option. I have Randomize Enemy Capture/Prisoners but don't see anything else.)

That's it. So I probably need to name the option better.

I just passed the five month mark on a Garrison since the last deployment. All five months enemy has been at Rout.

It continues to rolls morale every month, and none of the rolls has indicated that enemy morale is supposed to improve, so it simply stays at rout. Thus my question above to Makinus: is this the way it's supposed to go, or should it reset to normal after the 1d6-3 months of inactivity?

[Scotty]

It's supposed to reset, indicating a fresh, new enemy force arriving on planet.  I'd also take that excuse to change the enemy camo for a new unit. ^-^

[Makinus]

neoancient: as Scotty said, it should reset to "Normal" morale level after the "rout" period.

[Scotty]

Now that we have integrated MekHQ support, and we can edit unit damage in the lobby before dropping, I think it might be time to make some real rules for Artillery and Aerospace.  It's now possible to set up a MegaMek game with an enemy lance and an ASF, have the ASF conduct an airstrike, and include that damage in the upcoming battle.  Likewise with artillery (and maybe an infantry spotter?).

I feel like this would give a lot more depth (and a use for other unit types) in the campaign.

[scJazz]

Now that we have integrated MekHQ support, and we can edit unit damage in the lobby before dropping, I think it might be time to make some real rules for Artillery and Aerospace.  It's now possible to set up a MegaMek game with an enemy lance and an ASF, have the ASF conduct an airstrike, and include that damage in the upcoming battle.  Likewise with artillery (and maybe an infantry spotter?).

I feel like this would give a lot more depth (and a use for other unit types) in the campaign.

Princess is beyond clueless and useless when it comes to ASF and Artillery! ???

Backgrounding them instead of using them in a scenario... maybe. As in random damage enemy units in the Lobby.

What everyone fails to understand is that Princess is REALLY, REALLY, INCREDIBLY STUPID!

Sorry Netzilla for the above...

For everyone else... kindly remember that even 5 months ago Princess wouldn't even shoot at an ASF on the map and would focus movement towards one.

[Scotty]

No, I don't mean giving the bot aerospace and artillery stuff and going hogwild.

I mean giving the player the opportunity to use aerospace fighters and artillery in supporting roles, similar to how we already have infantry.

Aerospace fighters could be used to strafe the enemy group by starting up a scenario, conducting a run on the enemy units, ending the scenario, and keeping track of any damage done.  Artillery could be done the same way, with a few rounds of artillery bombardment to soften up enemy units before committing to the actual game.

[2ndAcr]

 Decided to play a AGTB campaign, one year in, get hit with a green mechwarrior who decides to leave, 14 million C Bills for a payout? Really?

 I could expect a payout like that for a Elite pilot who has fought many campaigns and such, but a member for barely a year and a green pilot to boot? That was 1/2 my cash on hand.

[Cybra]

Just a quick query, would it be possible to add weekly installments to the assets option in addition to the monthly and yearly ones? I am currently hiring a Mule Dropship. It's supposed to charge 40,000 per week, but I'm currently being charged 160,000 per month. This gives me 2-3 "free" days each month and I would prefer to get closer to the correct rules.

For those interested in using this idea for dropship/jumpship hire, in the Finances tab, there is a 'Manage Assets (GM)' button. Open it and click the 'Add Asset' button. Enter the name of your Dropship/Jumpship, leave the Value of Asset at 0 (you don't own the ship), enter a negative value equal to 4x the hire cost (e.g. 70,000 to hire a Scout Jumpship is entered as -280,000) and change the Income Schedule to Monthly. Hit 'OK' and you're done. on the 1st of each month, the hiring costs of you vessel is removed automatically.

I'm really enjoying the new MekHQ options and having a blast, keep up the good work.

[Killface]

Decided to play a AGTB campaign, one year in, get hit with a green mechwarrior who decides to leave, 14 million C Bills for a payout? Really?

 I could expect a payout like that for a Elite pilot who has fought many campaigns and such, but a member for barely a year and a green pilot to boot? That was 1/2 my cash on hand.

Was he in a really nice mech?  That has a pretty big impact on payout costs.

[RahTol]

Ok, looking at my finance tab, could someone tell me why I automatically hired 4 ASTECS at 1600 a pop? Automatically with absolutely no say in the matter?

Sorry, first it's annoying that I hire them without any prompting, but that price is plain extortion!

[neoancient]

Ok, looking at my finance tab, could someone tell me why I automatically hired 4 ASTECS at 1600 a pop? Automatically with absolutely no say in the matter?

Sorry, first it's annoying that I hire them without any prompting, but that price is plain extortion!

I just looked at the code that adds dependents and I see that it adds them to the campaign as recruits. So if you have the "Pay for personnel recruitment" option turned on, it will pay all dependents two months' salary when they're added. I'll need to fix that.

[Mukaikubo]

I think I'm going to delete this and maybe come back in a few weeks. Playing it just pisses me off at this point. I can't finish a contract successfully because I can't within-the-rules get any limbs to replace anything that blows off (oh boy, maybe I can manually buy one or two replacements of every single limb my mechs have and might possibly lose before every contract! What a fun way to make sure I never have to worry about having cash on hand!) When I do fight, it's invariably against bigger, harder opponents- I am almost always out-BVed even on the 'green' difficulty, and outskilled as well despite taking a veteran rated force against "green" enemies that inexplicably have a third 3/4 pilots, and the AI. Oh god, the AI. I have begun just auto-quitting any extraction raids, because Princess can't understand that it might not be the best idea to R:2 (+0) with a flatbed truck next to an enemy hunchback. I think I've managed to win 1 extraction raid in years of IC play. The rest of the time, the civilians suicide rush the enemy before I can even get there. For a nice change of pace, I sometimes get to do real fights, where my attached liaison will happily do the same thing so that I can't possibly make headway in contract score. I sure do love having to make my fast medium lances move with only +1 move mods in a desperate attempt to get the enemy to shoot me instead of my increasingly misnamed ally. Of course there's no way to alter the bot's AI settings once you're in the Megamek lobby to be able to say "Civilians, guys, maybe you should be more cautious!" So the only answer is to dead sprint at the enemy and then start moving horrifically suboptimally and hope you can get the killcount right before your allies inevitably explode. Right now I'm staring at a scenario where my command lance has to beat back an extraction raid by the enemy. Outnumbered? Check, a heavy and medium lance versus me and Captain Useless the 4/5 VL-2T. Out-BVed? Oh god, of course. And I have to kill half of them in ten turns? Give me no time limit and it's a coin flip if I'll take half out before I lose half! And this is what pretty much every single battle is. I'm dispirited, pissed off that I'm so wretchedly and uselessly bad at Battletech, and I just... I need a break.  :-[


edit: Ah, right. The other battle for the week is in a savannah with my medium lance in a standup fight- a huge map, too- against a heavy mech lance with three archers. And it's a moonless night, and exactly one mech has jets. So I'm going to play it, enact history's slowest charge of the light brigade, and get shot to pieces by massed LRM fire before getting in weapons range, and that'll be another lance gone. Probably should just round 1 quit that one too. Yeah, it's time to delete this folder.

[jh316]

I think I'm going to delete this and maybe come back in a few weeks. Playing it just pisses me off at this point. I can't finish a contract successfully because I can't within-the-rules get any limbs to replace anything that blows off (oh boy, maybe I can manually buy one or two replacements of every single limb my mechs have and might possibly lose before every contract! What a fun way to make sure I never have to worry about having cash on hand!) When I do fight, it's invariably against bigger, harder opponents- I am almost always out-BVed even on the 'green' difficulty, and outskilled as well despite taking a veteran rated force against "green" enemies that inexplicably have a third 3/4 pilots, and the AI. Oh god, the AI. I have begun just auto-quitting any extraction raids, because Princess can't understand that it might not be the best idea to R:2 (+0) with a flatbed truck next to an enemy hunchback. I think I've managed to win 1 extraction raid in years of IC play. The rest of the time, the civilians suicide rush the enemy before I can even get there. For a nice change of pace, I sometimes get to do real fights, where my attached liaison will happily do the same thing so that I can't possibly make headway in contract score. I sure do love having to make my fast medium lances move with only +1 move mods in a desperate attempt to get the enemy to shoot me instead of my increasingly misnamed ally. Of course there's no way to alter the bot's AI settings once you're in the Megamek lobby to be able to say "Civilians, guys, maybe you should be more cautious!" So the only answer is to dead sprint at the enemy and then start moving horrifically suboptimally and hope you can get the killcount right before your allies inevitably explode. Right now I'm staring at a scenario where my command lance has to beat back an extraction raid by the enemy. Outnumbered? Check, a heavy and medium lance versus me and Captain Useless the 4/5 VL-2T. Out-BVed? Oh god, of course. And I have to kill half of them in ten turns? Give me no time limit and it's a coin flip if I'll take half out before I lose half! And this is what pretty much every single battle is. I'm dispirited, pissed off that I'm so wretchedly and uselessly bad at Battletech, and I just... I need a break.  :-[


edit: Ah, right. The other battle for the week is in a savannah with my medium lance in a standup fight- a huge map, too- against a heavy mech lance with three archers. And it's a moonless night, and exactly one mech has jets. So I'm going to play it, enact history's slowest charge of the light brigade, and get shot to pieces by massed LRM fire before getting in weapons range, and that'll be another lance gone. Probably should just round 1 quit that one too. Yeah, it's time to delete this folder.

Have you tried configuring princess at all? There are a lot of sliders you can set to control behavior. I always set civillians to be as passive and cautious as possible and don't really have issues.

Also I have zero problems getting replacement limbs in 3025, do you not have a logstical HR? Only time I had issues was on a raid contract, and was still able to make repairs by salvaging anything of the right weights and stripping it.

[Makinus]

- The most important admin position is Logistical - always put your best admin there.

- Never take a raid contract unless you have a skilled company, and keep in mind that, at a minimum, you will have 1/3 of your units damaged and be unable to repair them before the end of the contract - there is a  reason that raids take at max 3 months to complete.

[RahTol]

You adjust the Bot settings for the different units by right clicking on them in the Briefing Room. Drop your "allies" bravery and aggression and up self preservation, he should try to stay out of trouble rather then fight. And always up their caution or they will likely kill themselves if the enemy doesn't do it first.

I do however understand your frustration as the AtB rules that Makinus has designed are specifically for those players who are frustrated with how helpless the bot is. They are good rules, but should definitely not be implemented fully for a beginner player as they are specifically designed to make you the under dog. To make things a little easier try turning off the "weather, "light," and "planetary conditions" options, while your in there make sure you have "double enemy vehicles" off and "use vehicles" on. Set the difficulty to 'ultra green' and only take contracts with "green" enemy rating. Finally make sure your lance is rated at "light." These settings combined should be enough for anyone who at least fully understands the game system, though I still find the 'break through' and 'chase' maps tough.

Honestly I was under the impression that "restrict parts by mission" was broken, because it wouldn't even let me try to buy basic armor when I wasn't even in a contract (year 3028 with 6 admin/logistical if it matters...)

[Ironboot]

Question for neoancient...

When I was looking at the megamek log i noticed this for the maps...

Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN0.board
Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN1.board
Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN2.board
Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN3.board

When MekHQ is making the maps, is it using/trying to use the xml's that went with the rules?  Looking at this made me this that it was building the map from the Mekwars server TheShack. 

But when I play the battles it looks good for the size and what terrain it said in the lobby of MekHQ.

Thank you for your work :)  You are saving me time of rolling up battles for AtB :)

Ironboot

[neoancient]

Question for neoancient...

When I was looking at the megamek log i noticed this for the maps...

Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN0.board
Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN1.board
Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN2.board
Error parsing board: C:\Documents and Settings\PC\Desktop\MekHQ3.6r1970\data\boards\unofficial\TheShack\CN3.board

When MekHQ is making the maps, is it using/trying to use the xml's that went with the rules?  Looking at this made me this that it was building the map from the Mekwars server TheShack. 

But when I play the battles it looks good for the size and what terrain it said in the lobby of MekHQ.

Thank you for your work :)  You are saving me time of rolling up battles for AtB :)

Ironboot

Those messages come up in the log file even when you're using MM without MHQ at all. The MHQ experimental releases that include the AtB code include the xml files, and MHQ uses them to set the generated map options in MM based on what was generated for the scenario.

[monbvol]

You adjust the Bot settings for the different units by right clicking on them in the Briefing Room. Drop your "allies" bravery and aggression and up self preservation, he should try to stay out of trouble rather then fight. And always up their caution or they will likely kill themselves if the enemy doesn't do it first.

I do however understand your frustration as the AtB rules that Makinus has designed are specifically for those players who are frustrated with how helpless the bot is. They are good rules, but should definitely not be implemented fully for a beginner player as they are specifically designed to make you the under dog. To make things a little easier try turning off the "weather, "light," and "planetary conditions" options, while your in there make sure you have "double enemy vehicles" off and "use vehicles" on. Set the difficulty to 'ultra green' and only take contracts with "green" enemy rating. Finally make sure your lance is rated at "light." These settings combined should be enough for anyone who at least fully understands the game system, though I still find the 'break through' and 'chase' maps tough.

Honestly I was under the impression that "restrict parts by mission" was broken, because it wouldn't even let me try to buy basic armor when I wasn't even in a contract (year 3028 with 6 admin/logistical if it matters...)

Must be some quirk of how the bot scripts run on my computer then as I'm certainly no slouch but Princess can still give me a dang good run for my money in a balanced fight.  Heck I've even lost to Princess when I've had slight advantages.