Author Topic: Talk to me about the Ares  (Read 6073 times)

DarkSpade

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Talk to me about the Ares
« on: 27 August 2014, 18:38:47 »
I've managed to get 5 torsos and a set of legs put together so surely someone's gotten one on the table by now.   So how do they handle?  Regular or Alpha Strike.
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Fat Guy

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #1 on: 27 August 2014, 19:45:13 »
Undergunned for their size, but they make up for it with a buttload of armor. Odds are also pretty good you won't get knocked down until you lose a leg. The initiative bonus is nice, as is the ability to take a gauss rifle to the face and live.  O0
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #2 on: 27 August 2014, 19:57:40 »
Fought against one in Alpha Strike; they have pretty good stats (albeit slow) and the Zeus hands out damage like no one's business, but when it gets tag teamed (and/or meets a Gultoppr) it goes away like any other piece.  Since it's easier to hit, it goes away faster.  That said, I still like the miniature I had picked up for me and will get it on my side :)

Wrangler

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #3 on: 27 August 2014, 20:30:28 »
I've played with them in MegaMek, having them go after an Omega as well.

I found despite Ares's limited movement speed, it quite maneuverable due to the Tripod's one movement turn cost.  I found thou even with armor it packs, that its quite squishy due to the Superheavy penalties they suffer from.  If you get into say melee range, its at disadvantage due to size lumbering nature. Someone getting up close with it will hurt, but you'll also have good chance it will miss and you won't.   Anyone shooting at Ares, will have easy shots, again due to its size. 

I agree completely with FatGuy's assessment on its weapons. They are undergunned, but they're still powerful in their own right.  Aside from their configurations the Ares has, they have their fixed built-in weapons in the legs. Their nothing to write about, but they're still additional firepower most won't have.   However, I do think if we can get more configurations beyond what we have stats on now. I think we can see more creative uses for its 41 ton of OmniPod space.  Zeus isn't bad, but I'm not crazy about the others.
« Last Edit: 27 August 2014, 20:34:44 by Wrangler »
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #4 on: 27 August 2014, 20:40:55 »
They're big, tough, and nasty, but don't get suckered into the mentality that they're supposed to be invincible game-enders. The people who expect that are the ones who are disappointed by them, and are the ones you'll see on the forums declaring their uselessness at every turn.

Unfortunately, that false reputation works against them. They're not built to absorb multiple lances' worth of fire, but because of their reputation, that's exactly what people are going to point at them. Consequently, you have to fight smart with them. Cover is going to be hard to find for something that tall, but that's exactly what you need. Keep maneuvering so that he can't get all of his guys on you at once. Those little missile racks aren't really going to contribute that much to your damage output, so I like to load smoke rounds in either the SRMs or LRMs and use them to help make my own cover. I know, smoke rounds only make a 2-level-tall column of smoke, but if you put that smoke on top of the Level 1 hill that previously wasn't doing you any good, it'll give you some much-needed to hit modifiers, if not help block LOS completely. Also, consider going hull down or even prone on a regular basis. That'll help you take cover behind normal-sized terrain. Finally, don't forget that your sheer size gives you some movement bonuses, so feel free to plow your way through woods or other terrain that will slow down your opponents, hopefully giving you more opportunity to split them up and defeat them in detail.

Similarly, remember that like the armor, the Ares's firepower is nasty, but NOT apocalyptic. Unless someone is dumb enough to get into melee range, don't expect an Ares to strike down an enemy 'mech every turn with the wrath of an angry god. What you do have is a solid and consistent damage curve. You're not going to one-shot much, but anything you do go after WILL know it was hit. Since we already discussed splitting up enemies, make sure to put a solid salvo into anything that can see you. Between your fire and that of your buddies(if you're not giving your tripods a very healthy escort, you deserve the defeat you're about to receive), you should quickly find yourself facing not a horde of enemy Battlemechs, but a gaggle of the walking mostly-dead. Again, take a look at your missile racks, and see what kind of force-multiplier ammo you can carry that'll help them transition form mostly dead to ALL dead. Finally, take advantage of the fact that you're probably not fighting alone, and that most of the enemy's attention will be focused on your Ares. While they're coming to grips with your Colossals, what are your other guys up to? More importantly, whose back armor are they looking at, since nobody's paying attention to them?
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Diablo48

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #5 on: 27 August 2014, 21:36:48 »
They're big, tough, and nasty, but don't get suckered into the mentality that they're supposed to be invincible game-enders....

The BV is rather telling in this regard.  The Ares may be expensive at over 3000 BV in every configuration, but this is nothing new to anyone who is used to playing with Clan tech assaults, especially once you start paying for Clan pilots.  In fact, I do not think it is even the most expensive canon 'Mech even with the 3,653 BV price tag on the Zeus, although I do not remember what the most expensive design is off the top of my head.


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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #6 on: 27 August 2014, 22:01:36 »
Undergunned for their size, but they make up for it with a buttload of armor. Odds are also pretty good you won't get knocked down until you lose a leg. The initiative bonus is nice, as is the ability to take a gauss rifle to the face and live.  O0

you forgot the 3 primary targets with no to hit modifier and the ability to overheat like a madman and be relativly okay with an engineer

I played my ares right, giving it an Atlas III and Marauder IIC as buddies to cover its sides and rear so it could trundly up to the objective in a scenario and hold it.  once it got to where it needed to go it was nearly impossible to dislodge, and it was facing down an entire assault company after I steamrolled the medium company that was trying to flank it.
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Kojak

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #7 on: 28 August 2014, 00:40:10 »
The BV is rather telling in this regard.  The Ares may be expensive at over 3000 BV in every configuration, but this is nothing new to anyone who is used to playing with Clan tech assaults, especially once you start paying for Clan pilots.  In fact, I do not think it is even the most expensive canon 'Mech even with the 3,653 BV price tag on the Zeus, although I do not remember what the most expensive design is off the top of my head.

The most expensive design is the Poseidon, followed by the Turkina Z. The Ares (Zeus) is in third.


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marauder648

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #8 on: 28 August 2014, 01:31:12 »
Isn't the Tomahawk also a distressingly expensive mech?  As for the Ares its well armed and imposing but its not some deus ex machina, a Direwolf Prime could probably deal with one if the wolfy didn't run into melee.  A good mech with some nice art and designs but far from an Imperator Titan being let loose upon us.

I did a thoughts on the Ares here

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,34703.msg809510.html#msg809510


Besides we know how to deal with an Imperator..


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Kojak

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #9 on: 28 August 2014, 01:57:18 »
Isn't the Tomahawk also a distressingly expensive mech?

The most expensive one, the Tomahawk II B, ranks ninth.


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Phobos

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #10 on: 28 August 2014, 04:47:15 »
Isn't there a Blood Asp config which also scores well beyond 3,500?

Jellico

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #11 on: 28 August 2014, 05:51:46 »
(and/or meets a Gultoppr)
That makes me curious.

I am pretty sure an Executioner G is 3825. 4000 is quite reachable with Clantech.

sillybrit

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #12 on: 28 August 2014, 07:45:19 »
At least the Ares is slow enough for many battle armor designs to easily keep pace. Slower suits could hitch a ride, being dropped off to hold a key position or provide fire support, depending upon the type carried.

I'd desperately want some Gnome (LRM)s if only the Horses would share them... and not in the bad way. Mixed with some medium suits to provide Anti-Mech capability and I'd be blissfully happy with that battle armor escort.

wantec

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #13 on: 28 August 2014, 08:54:20 »
The most expensive design is the Poseidon, followed by the Turkina Z. The Ares (Zeus) is in third.
Not according to the MUL. Here's the top 20:

Turkina Z   3,935
Gladiator (Executioner) G   3,825
Marauder II (Bounty Hunter)   3,767
Poseidon PSD-V2   3,760
Gyrfalcon 4   3,716
Shrike 3   3,698
Ares ARS-V1 Zeus   3,653
Tundra Wolf 2   3,626
Deimos E   3,620
Daishi (Dire Wolf) C   3,610
Gladiator (Executioner) F   3,606
Hellstar 2   3,545
Tomahawk II B   3,513
Blood Asp A   3,452
Supernova 3   3,448
Marauder IIC 4   3,447
Masakari (Warhawk) (Tara)   3,428
Turkina B   3,420
Daishi (Dire Wolf) D   3,403
Sphinx 3   3,396
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marauder648

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #14 on: 28 August 2014, 09:57:41 »
Why's the Bounty Hunter's Mad II so expensive?  I assume thats including the pilot costs?
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #15 on: 28 August 2014, 10:15:13 »
Nope, it's just the 'mech by itself. Between the jump jets, TarComp, and highly effective guns, it manages to hit just about every sweet spot for driving up your BV. It's just THAT nasty. 8)
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #16 on: 28 August 2014, 10:53:19 »
That makes me curious.

I am pretty sure an Executioner G is 3825. 4000 is quite reachable with Clantech.

I used the Gulltoppr A for that Alpha Strike game, which in terms of BV is like a 100 higher than the Zeus, though in AS the 97 point price tag is... steep.  The Zeus only clocks in at 73 for AS, so the outcome is probably pretty predictable in a one-on-one (and the fact that the Gulltoppr doesn't have a -1 against it from in coming fire helps... well, it has no modifier because it's slower than molasses.)

DarkSpade

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #17 on: 28 August 2014, 12:55:46 »
When I saw the SRM2s, my first thought was "what kind of ammo do I want to use for these?"  >:D   I've always found LRM special ammo less impressive.


Not according to the MUL. Here's the top 20:

Turkina Z   3,935
Gladiator (Executioner) G   3,825
Marauder II (Bounty Hunter)   3,767
Poseidon PSD-V2   3,760
Gyrfalcon 4   3,716
Shrike 3   3,698
Ares ARS-V1 Zeus   3,653
Tundra Wolf 2   3,626
Deimos E   3,620
Daishi (Dire Wolf) C   3,610
Gladiator (Executioner) F   3,606
Hellstar 2   3,545
Tomahawk II B   3,513
Blood Asp A   3,452
Supernova 3   3,448
Marauder IIC 4   3,447
Masakari (Warhawk) (Tara)   3,428
Turkina B   3,420
Daishi (Dire Wolf) D   3,403
Sphinx 3   3,396

Does the MUL have Widowmaker's Dashie?   I remember it topping out the list last time I had SSW up and running.
« Last Edit: 28 August 2014, 12:57:18 by DarkSpade »
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #18 on: 28 August 2014, 13:19:55 »
When I saw the SRM2s, my first thought was "what kind of ammo do I want to use for these?"  >:D   I've always found LRM special ammo less impressive.


Does the MUL have Widowmaker's Dashie?   I remember it topping out the list last time I had SSW up and running.

It's only 3040somethinganother.  No big deal :D

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #19 on: 28 August 2014, 16:20:52 »
It's not a Assault Mech, it's a walking bunker. You got plenty of armor both anti-infantry and mech weapons to keep enemies at bay long enough for lace mates to take them out.
   
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DarkSpade

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #20 on: 28 August 2014, 16:40:07 »
you forgot the 3 primary targets with no to hit modifier and the ability to overheat like a madman and be relativly okay with an engineer

I played my ares right, giving it an Atlas III and Marauder IIC as buddies to cover its sides and rear so it could trundly up to the objective in a scenario and hold it.  once it got to where it needed to go it was nearly impossible to dislodge, and it was facing down an entire assault company after I steamrolled the medium company that was trying to flank it.

Seems like the best way to use it would be as a distraction.   Let it get get everyone's attention while the rest of your forces do the real work.  Meanwhile it's got enough fire power to ensure flat out ignoring it isn't an option.
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Kojak

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #21 on: 28 August 2014, 22:07:22 »
Not according to the MUL.

Ah, I was going off MegaMek because I forgot that the MUL lists BV. Thanks for the correction.


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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #22 on: 28 August 2014, 23:35:33 »
Seems like the best way to use it would be as a distraction.   Let it get get everyone's attention while the rest of your forces do the real work.  Meanwhile it's got enough fire power to ensure flat out ignoring it isn't an option.

Bingo. Treat it like a tank character in a roleplaying party. Just remember that you're still nowhere near as eenweenceeble as your reputation suggests, so you still need to do everything you can think of to minimize the actual amount of damage you're absorbing.
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #23 on: 29 August 2014, 08:05:23 »
Seems like the best way to use it would be as a distraction.   Let it get get everyone's attention while the rest of your forces do the real work.  Meanwhile it's got enough fire power to ensure flat out ignoring it isn't an option.

considering the havoc that company of Scarborough Mk II hovercraft was wreaking?

the joke for that game was "you remember that time a hovertank picked a fight with a Stone Rhino?
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #24 on: 29 August 2014, 09:23:15 »
As a guy who's top 5 mech list is essentially all over 3k without pilots... seems pretty cheap! ;D


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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #25 on: 29 August 2014, 13:29:36 »
A Superheavy 'mech in a lance is basically the Heavy in Team Fortress 2- if unsupported, he is quickly dispatched by even the weakest of classes, due to it's slow speed and easy target size. But like a Heavy, if he is supported by a good team he acts as a wall- slowing down and suppressing opponents by heavy fire and giving damaged friendlies a chance to escape.
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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #26 on: 29 August 2014, 19:45:36 »
opps
« Last Edit: 29 August 2014, 20:14:51 by Jellico »

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #27 on: 29 August 2014, 19:57:35 »
Code: [Select]
Unified SLDF Doctrine
What follows is a fairly comprehensive look at the SLDF. I have maintained for a long time the SLDF is far more internally coherent than suspected. I have previously provided a description of a SLDF Task Force as a layered system designed to operate in a hostile environment offering far greater capability as a whole than the House ships could offer on their own. This takes a step back from the Task Force to look at the Fleet as a whole.
It should also be noted that while I will describe role based assets the SLDF navy was divided into geographical fleets. Any one fleet would be made up of assets assigned to the various roles.

Definitions
Hegemony 2300 – 2550
Early SLDF 2550 – 2650
Late SLDF 2650 – 2750
Transport Fleet – Ships assigned to transport and escort the SLDF.
Fast Fleet – LF capable ships grouped together
Regular Fleet – Non LF capable ships grouped for space superiority operations
Reconnaissance Fleet – Ships assigned to an observation and picket role.

Roles
1 - Transport SLDF
It has to be understood from the beginning that the role of the Transport Assets was to get the SLDF from point A to point B and keep it fed and supplied. Its role was certainly not to fight fleet actions.

This role had several components.

The first is to delivering troops and supplies in a non hostile situation. This is easily accomplished with standard Jumpships and Dropships. Some escort is likely given the nature of CBT space but it in no way needs to be more than a destroyer or even a corvette.

The second role is to deliver troops and supplies in a hostile situation. While Jumpships and Dropships are still the core of this role there is a need for capable escorts. It is important to remember that even in this situation there is minimal chance of an extended battle against capable opposition. In a hostile environment a covering force of cruisers or battleships will always be near by. Indeed, during the Star League the availability of LF battery equipped ships meant that support was only minutes away. Additionally the presence of a large number of Jumpships means there was no need for the escorting Warships to be able to carry Dropships.

After leaving the Jumpships (properly protected) at the jump point the transporting Dropships, with Dropship and Warship escort, can move into the hostile zone. As noted if operating in an attacking role they may be preceded by an offensive screening unit that will establish aerospace superiority. Alternatively in a supply role the screening unit may be pre-positioned in a supporting location within the system ready to respond to trouble.

The final role the Transport Assets may be called upon to perform is direct support of grounded troops. This can be fire support, or perhaps more simply providing security for supply ships operating near orbit. Even a corvette is overwhelmingly powerful in a fire support role. Powerful ships are not necessary. However orbit is a hostile environment with little time to respond to any threats so any unit used here has to be expendable. Dropships, destroyers, corvettes and frigates would operate in this environment. Additionally all offer cargo space that can be used by the grounded troops without fear of it being overrun.


Hegemony
The Hegemony was a very different time to that of the Star League. Competent aerospace fighters did not exist until the 2360s with advanced fighters only becoming available at the dawn of the Star League. There were no militarised Dropships until the 2460s. While the SLDF was operating Monsoons and Farraguts the best the Houses and Periphery were known to offer were Du Shi Wangs and Winchesters.

The familiar Jumpship/Dropship combination barely existed. A military force would be transported by civilian ships, often with jump cores. Additionally in the early days of the Hegemony there were no Mechs and their supporting infrastructure.

The Transport Assets military units would be primarily Essex I’s, Lola I’s, the occasional Riga I in a command role, and later on Vincents. All low cost and expendable. Likely opposition would not have a chance.

Early SLDF
The SLDF spawned the first flowering of militarised Dropships. Initially with light weight ships like the Leopard and Gazelle, then later with heavy lifters like the Dictator and Triumph and the first ASF carrier, the Leopard CV. Pentagons and Achilles were operational. Baron, Whirlwind, Carsons, Lola II and Confederates would expand the escorting units and swam over planets being attacked.

Carrack and Potemkin would begin service in the later half of this period offering hardened transports for hostile environments. Both would be built in large numbers. Additionally the Star Lord and Invader would add flexible Jumpship options.

Advanced aerospace fighters would become numerous but the availability of carrier Dropships would mean that the Transport Assets could adapt with little trouble.


While most of the known House ships were developed in this period their influence on SLDF thinking was minimal. Basically the ships of the Great Houses could not reach the Transport Fleet, and even if they could the defences were far more formidable than in the previous century.

Late SLDF
By the Late Star League the Fleet’s Transport Assets were truly formidable. Ships like the Colossus and Union were enhancing flexibility. The Mule was improving supply capabilities and the Volga would add a level of utility between the Carrack and Potemkin.

Lola IIIs, Nagas and Essex IIs would provide a close guard. The new Titans reinforced by imported Samarkand IIs would offer very heavy ASF defences that would make attacking a fully escorted convoy suicidal.

2 – Establish aerospace superiority to enable 1.
While the primary task of the Fleet was to support the Army the fact remained that to achieve that aim battles had to be fought and won in space. With this goal in mind the SLDF developed a multilayered array of heavy units to simply smash their way through. While superficially blunt and inefficient the end result was surprisingly effective and these inefficiencies were the mark of a true power rather than a pretender.

Hegemony
Starting with the Dreadnought the Hegemony created a doctrine that allowed it to overwhelm its less advanced opponents. A heavy battleship or group of battleships would smash its way through any defending force. Simple, brutal and effective. While the Fleet would build cruisers to perform the same role they would never be available in the numbers of the battleships.
This reflects a surprising tactical reality. Naval combat in the Inner Sphere is all about massing strength at single points. While a dispersed defensive function existed it was adequately performed by the Hegemony’s smaller craft as discussed later. With the role of large ships defined by major assaults at discreet locations with no requirement to be able to disperse this firepower beyond these locations it is far more cost effective to build a single large battleship that a pair of smaller cruisers.

In addition to the battleships and cruisers a number of escort vessels would be available to act as pickets. The battle cruiser/frigate Quixote would primarily serve with battleships, notably the Farragut where its superior docking collars and anti ASF ability would complement the battleship’s weaknesses in these areas. The more traditional escort of Monsoons and Aegis was the Riga I. Additionally these frigates were routinely fitted with advanced sensors to improve the task force’s detection capabilities.
Equipped with the first generation of combat Dropships and ASF these ships would form the sharp end of the Hegemony’s navy. 

Early SLDF
Three factors would separate the Hegemony Fleet from the Star League Fleet. Lithium Fusion Batteries, combat Dropships and advanced ASF.

The LF Battery manifested itself first in the Avatar cruiser then spread to the Kimagure and refitted Aegis. This turned the cruiser from a poor man’s battleship into something different. Able to cover vast distances quickly, operating in squadrons the SLDF’s cruisers became would become rapid response cover.

In the meantime battleships remained close cover retaining their smashing role.

Notably no escort units were fitted with LF batteries. The impact of this was lessened by the introduction of combat Dropships and effective ASF.

Additionally at this time the SLDF began to adopt a long range doctrine for combat. Using defence in depth provided by its Dropships and aerospace superiority Warships began to adopt clusters of capital weapons rather than single large weapons to increase their capabilities at longer ranges. This was not noticed and adopted by the Houses.

Our knowledge of opposing fleets at this time is most complete for House Davion with its fleet of Davion IIs, old Aegis, Congresses and Robinson Is. These would simply not have a chance against a SLDF battleship or cruiser squadron.

At the same time the FWLN was operating Aegis and Atreus. While a competent ship compared to the Monsoon the superior docking collars of the latter meant that it could adapt to the changes in ASF and Dropship technology better than the Atreus. Unfortunately the Farragut suffered similar problems to the Atreus leading to it being discontinued by the mid point of this period though examples continued serving till the end of the Star League.

Late SLDF
The key change of the late SLDF was the introduction of the McKenna. With the addition of a LF battery this ship became the SLDF’s fast battleship. Equipped with the new Titans and constructed in large numbers this ship effectively moved the cruisers back into a supporting role.

At the same time removing the McKenna from the Regular Fleet created a weakness. With the retirement of the Monsoon only the Texas and remaining Farraguts were able to serve in this role. Unwilling to build additional battleships the SLDF returned to a concept not seen since the Quixote three hundred years before. The Black Lion and Cameron classes were cruisers designed to support and supplement battleships rather than roam like the preceding Avatars. Lacking LF batteries they were intended to stay with the close cover.

Three more ships should be mentioned. The first is the Luxor. The first balanced cruiser build since the Avatar it combined LF batteries, long range firepower, Dropship escorts and advanced ASF into a package that could threaten anything known to be deployed by the houses. However with the advent of the fast battleship it could be considered a dead end.

The second is the Sovetskii Soyuz. Much maligned the Sov Soy offered a useful mixing of the abilities of a frigate and cruiser to allow it to replace the old Riga Is in the Regular Fleet. The simple fact was that by this time ship to ship engagements were increasingly unlikely thanks to the increasingly powerful distant cover. The only forces likely to reach the close cover were asymmetric and better suited to be targeted by ASF, Dropships or capital missies. Threats the Sovetskii Soyuz was well suited to supporting.

The final ship that needs to be mentioned is the Riga II. These represent a merging of the roles of the frigate and the destroyer. Perhaps the most intriguing possibility is that these solid craft carried a LF battery bringing escort Warships to the Fast Fleet for the first time.

3 – Defend trade lanes and assets
Defending a nation’s trade lanes is a complex and thankless task. The nature of KF drives means that this is primarily a task of defending points, for example planets or Jump Points. The vast number of these points means that the defenders have to be dispersed over a wide area, contrary to the basic principle of concentration of force. Additionally financial restrictions mean that the force represented by a single powerful ship has to be spread over several smaller ships.

Naturally this leaves a defender open to being defeated in detail. Worse even with this dispersal a defender can’t be everywhere at once. Ultimately the key to defence in the context of the Inner Sphere is having sufficient force to slow an enemy down, then having the sensors and communication systems to identify an arriving enemy and send an appropriate response.

Sadly this can often best be achieved by letting an enemy land and holding them with a Castle Brian. The limitations of HPG technology prevent a warning message being sent from a ship in most cases while a picket ships own sensors are limited and even if it does see the enemy it still has to chase said enemy down and then be able to successfully engage the enemy.

Finally while the light ships bear the brunt of this work through patrolling the influence of the Regular and Fast Fleet can not be ignored. These heavy ships were not always on distant offensive service. Their presence and continuing patrols were the force behind the eyes of the Reconnaissance Fleet. Indeed the mere presence of a battleship squadron could prevent the threat of hostile action.

Hegemony
The Hegemony was the time of the picket ship. Corvettes, destroyers, frigates and even cruisers plied the space ways getting involved with all manner of single ship actions. Distances were small and communications bad. Towards the Core the large numbers of battleships could be expected to provide cover. Towards the edge of the Hegemony cruisers like the Dart provided heavy support. But ultimately the tactics of the time were successful due to the weakness of the opposition rather than any strategic brilliance.
Early SLDF
The improved strength of the Star League’s army in relation to that of the Terran Hegemony allowed defence to take place on world. Effective ASF allowed a planet or space station to defend itself relatively cheaply. LF batteries allowed cruisers to provide cover over long distances though the majority of the burden was still bourn by old Vincents and frigates.

The key part of the defensive structure was the Castle Brian. Able to resist major forces for long periods with good communications to other League worlds they bought the necessary time to allow help to arrive. In parallel to this major industrial operations were also secured in heavy fortifications.

Late SLDF
This was the age of the automated defence system. Major worlds were no longer willing to accept enemy forces being allowed to land and spent massively on defence systems. These formed hardened shells around specific points to prevent an attacking force from even reaching the target. As with the Castle Brian, help would be called for as no defensive system could ever be considered unbreakable.

This allowed far fewer Warships to be stationed in the Core regions of the Star League and allowed them to be used offensively in the Periphery. This would come back to haunt the Star league when the Rim World Collective seized control of many of these systems.

The usual Warships on picket duty were Vincents and frigates. The presence of large numbers of LF capable McKennas and cruisers offered a new twist on the ability to respond. And towards the end Sovetskii Soyuz offered good light coverage in the style of a frigate.

4 – Interdiction
Interdiction represents the reconnaissance and interception role of the SLDF. While most famously performed by ships like the Bug Eye it was also the preserve of corvettes and frigates. Operations generally consisted of placing a ship in system, hostile or friendly, then just monitoring everything it could. Naturally this is an ideal job for the sensor intensive ships described.

The second part of the role required acting on the intelligence gathered. For a lightly armed Bug Eye this could simply mean reporting back to Terra. For a combat ship this could mean acting directly on the intelligence gathered. Many of the great single ship actions of the SLDF involved frigates or corvettes performing this role.

Defensively the Interdiction role parallels trade lane defence and often overlaps with combat ships being tasked to both tasks at the same time. Even large ships equipped with neutrino detects would be used in this role though it lacks the subtly normally associated with it.

Offensively this ranges from spying to offensive patrolling. Quietly placing an observation ship in another power’s space lanes is hardly a peaceful action but the SLDF had several classes tailored for this role. Offensive patrolling could happen in enemy or contested systems and lacked the deniability of using a more discrete ship. Of course this ignores the number of non compact core Jumpships the SLDF had available to do the same job.

Hegemony
This was the age of the corvette. The Bonaventure, Vigilant and Vincent all had their heyday at this time. Also all of the classic SLDF spy ships began service. The Riga was available for heavier operations.

Early SLDF
The SLDF’s arsenal was finalised at this time. While the Vincents and new Bug Eye continued service the Riga came to be supplemented by the Congress.

Late SLDF
Nothing really changed here. Same ships, same role.


A Note on Numbers:

The first case is the cruisers. There are simply not enough of them. In the Hegemony they could be seen as cheap battleships but they are outnumbered by the larger ships. There are only 106 Aegis (70 of which remained in SLDF service and were refitted) and 12 Kimigures. Avatars in theory relaced Aegis so would be available in similar numbers, at least originally. Assuming the same number of Darts they are out numbered by the Monsoons and Farraguts. 62 Black Lions, 40 Camerons and 52 Texases are expected to replace a certain percentage of Monsoons and Farraguts.

Throughout the history of the Hegemony and the Star League, based on known classes there were probably round 200 cruisers until the launch of the Sovetskii Soyuzes.

There are a lot of BBs based on the known 70 Texas and 280 McKennas. There are interesting changes forced by the McMennas but it is reasonable to assume a 300 ship BB force in the Hegemony and early SLDF.

During the Early SLDF the use of LF batteries make cruisers viable as an elite core of rapid response units. But in the Late SLDF the McKennas have the same capability and outnumber the cruisers. The Sovetskii Soyuzs have the numbers to fix this but they replace the Riga class frigates, not add to the number of cruisers in operation.

There must be a lot of frigates out there. If the 400 ship Sovetskii Soyuz class replaced 400 Rigas and there was 200 Congress and about 250 Quixotes based on the number of Volgas. 800 frigates at any one time should do the job. 300-400 for Warship escort. The remainder are available for command and single ship tasks.

60 Riga IIs, 470 Lola IIIs and 300 Essex IIs were produced. There were supposedly some 170 Bug Eyes. 530 Vincent Mk.39s over 300 years. Given the Essex II replaced the Carson, Baron and Naga it suggests these ships may have totalled around 400 ships. It is worth noting that SB:SL says “two destroyers were assigned to defend each naval base.” of which there were 500 suggesting a minimum of 1000 destroyers.

Armed transports. There were 200 Volgas and 106 Potemkins. Given the firepower represented by these ships it gives you some idea how tough hitting a SLDF convoy was. There is a big question mark over just how much escorting ships like this needed. With suitable Dropships it is not unreasonable to say a pair of Volgas was basically untouchable by anything less than a battleship. This makes the low number of DDs and CTs far more palatable. It is unclear how many Carracks were in service at the time.

As for combat Dropships? In the Hegemony we don’t really know what was available. In the opening period of the Star League we could expect Achillies, early Pentagons and Leopard CVs. A cruiser could offer a pair of CVs and a pair of assaults. A battleship might offer 2 CVs and 4 assaults. Frigates seemed to offer two assaults. Given 300 BBs, 200CAs and 800FGs we could have 1000CVs and 3200 assaults, not counting those carried by Jumpships.

By the late SLDF we have Titans. We also have 200 Volgas, the Potemkins and 400 FGs replaced by Sov Soys. Who knows if Titans, as competent assault ships, forced the traditional assault ships off the FG docking collars? 2500 is not an unrealistic figure alongside the existing 4000 assaults ships. 90000 ASF is not impossible.
Numbers 2780 LF
McKenna 280 Y
Texas 52 N

Cameron 40 N
Black Lion 62 N

Sovetskii Soyuz 400 N
Luxor ~50
Aegis 70 Y
Avatar ~50 Y
Kimigure 12 Y

Congress 200 N

Samarkand II Unknown N

Riga II 60 U
Lola III 470 N
Essex II 300 N
Naga ~300 N

Vincent Mk.39 ~400 N
Mako “Handful” N
Bug-Eye 170 N

Potemkin 106 N
Volga 200 N
Carrack Unknown N

~3200

A Note on What is Missing:
TRO 3075 gives us an interesting window on the SLDF. The Royal refits offer real possibilities. The fluff for the Pentagon suggests for the Navy these might be regular upgrades not Royal treatment. The key point is somewhere around 2600 SLDF ships started mounting Advanced weapons. A number of ships like the Volga, Pentagon, Colossus and Elephant are known to use them. A number like the Titan and Achilles should be at least upgraded to use the tech, if not using it from the start. Late ships like the Union and Overlord have no excuse.
Finally we are missing a lot of early stuff. I can’t even date the Leviathan Jumpship. The oldest I have is the Merchant. There are a couple of early Dropships but not enough to define a coherent use.
Congress: ERLarge Lasers?
Riga II
Essex I
Carrack
Leopard Upgrade/Royal?
Triumph Upgrade/Royal?
Achillies Upgrade/Royal?
Titan Upgrade/Royal?
Confederate Upgrade/Royal?
Dictator Upgrade/Royal?
Intruder Upgrade/Royal?
Union/ Overlord Actual?

Um what?   ???
Space Marines are guys who look at a chainsaw and think, “That should be balanced for parrying.”

Jellico

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Re: Talk to me about the Ares
« Reply #28 on: 29 August 2014, 20:14:26 »
Opps. Wrong thread. Can someone clean that up..

Thanks.

 

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