3145 Mechs you want to see next

[Weirdo]

How many actual CGL-published 'mechs have had those spikes?

[Lorcan Nagle]

don't forget the cylanders that stick out from a lot of the designs. i still haven't figured out that those are- i'm working under the assumption they're related to SL-era plug-and-play style freezers, but that's a shot in the dark.....

Clearly there's been somelevel of upgrade to electronic warfare systems in the interbellum and these are ECM antennae

[Azakael]

And the chaos-spikey-bits TM.

Case in point:



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Wasn't that Atlas supposed to be a specific pilot's ride? And would be well at home on Solaris VII. (Even though I know that Atlas likely wasn't there...)

[BARNESGN]

Hound
Kheper
Uraenus

[DarkSpade]

The Catapult II.   Especially if it looks like the clix sculpt.   Easily one of my top 3 favorite sculpts from the clix line.   And just like the Dragon II mini, it could be used as the original mech too.

And the chaos-spikey-bits TM.

Case in point:



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Did those spikey bits show up anywhere else though?  Even a later use of that sculpt didn't have those spikes.

[Wrangler]

The  Morpheus does

[GRUD]

The Morpheus isn't a "Dark Age" design though, it's from Solaris VII.  Then again, the Morpheus isn't exactly what anyone would call an "Iconic" 'Mech like the Atlas is either.  Some of us Old Farts get a little riled up when you start mucking around with our iconic rides!  [tickedoff]

 ;D

[Lorcan Nagle]

And as has been noted, that Atlas is a custom ride.  The spikes aren't on the majority of MWDA Atlas minis.

[Stinger]

And the chaos-spikey-bits TM.

Case in point:



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Even some of the "Bad" Atlases did not have spikes, only that one:



I think that one is supposed to be a K2...

[Shin Yodama]

Oooo - she's a looker!

[Stinger]

Oooo - she's a looker!

Haha, I didn't say she was pretty :D

[D.Jensen]

Here are the top ten 3145 mechs I'd like to see made:

1.   Gun (CCAF)
2.   Lu Wei Bing (CCAF)
3.   Templar III (AFFS)
4.   Juliano (FWLM)
5.   Carronade (FWLM)
6.   Tenshi (DCMS)
7.   Götterdämmerung (LCAF)
8.   Scarecrow (AFFS)
9.   Mortis (CCAF)
10.   Calliope (CCAF)

[Baron RedSkull]

Well, you can scratch number 5 off your list. It's currently slated to be released in November.

[D.Jensen]

Dang,  I thought I had scrubbed my list thoroughly against the pending release list; I guess not.  ;)

Alright, update top 10:
1.   Gun (CCAF)
2.   Lu Wei Bing (CCAF)
3.   Templar III (AFFS)
4.   Juliano (FWLM)
5.   Tenshi (DCMS)
6.   Götterdämmerung (LCAF)
7.   Scarecrow (AFFS)
8.   Mortis (CCAF)
9.   Calliope (CCAF)
10. Scourge (LCAF) 

[beachhead1985]

The more blocky designs, often with "X" patterns on flatter areas, external ammo feeds.  THe best example I have is looking at a Warhawk and looking at a Cygnus.  The designs are similar, but there is an obvious aesthetic shift.  Some people don't like that.

To me, most DA designs approach the japanese "Super Deformed" Aesthetic; they look like exaggerated children's toys of fighting machines, rather than a miniature depiction of same. Limbs exaggerated out of all proportion, random bits here and there and GUNSGUNSGUNS! They may as well have a show where they stumble around and talk to eachother punctuated by their own names.

I have general pet-peeves about design and sculpting in general that I have aired over the years; most notably, what I call; Big GIANT HEAD Syndrome. Compare the miniature of the Centurion and the 3050 art, with the original 3025 art; the Cartoon version and the later Mech Commander depiction and my preference is invariably for the later. I only mention this to prove that while I am against the DA in general, my aesthetic issues are generalized and applied evenly. Another one is the preference for massive, over-sized rotary barrels for all autocannon and a sad attempt to generalize and standardize depictions of weapons in art. A lot of the Project Phoenix and other recent designs fall prey to this. For different weapons made by different manufacturers, fitting around different equipment, in different chassis, we seem to be seeing a lot of very generic looking weapons grafted onto otherwise-original-looking art.

The Atlas pics of the DA version are indeed good examples of Big GIANT HEAD Syndrome. But there are other issues, all I feel stemming from the use of art which was made for designs based on a rule of cool derived from the concept of looking as new, hip and different from our stuffy old metal minis as possible and not from any sort of system of rules whatsoever. For instance; the Mangonel is a design based around having two really big torso-mounted guns and four small arm-mounted guns, because that looks cool and for no other reason.

I don't think any DA designs were made with Battletech rules in mind, rather more; "this huge collection of massive rotary barreled guns from a 90s-fabulous comicbook looks cool, let's make a mech like that." Or "let's make every mech look like a rattle-trap collection of mad max trash that escaped from an episode of junkyard wars." I like the supposed "Mad Max" roots of Btech as much as the next player, but it doesn't mean I want every design to look like an Ork Kan or Dread from Warhammer 40K, or in Battletech terms; like a pirate Frankenmech. This is the "Dark Age Aesthetic".

I think the haphazard and clumsy porting of DA designs into BT rules shows how poorly-thought out many of these designs were; more about looking cool/different and having as many guns as possible and matching the art, while still re-using as many molds and parts as possible as well. The vehicles bear the additional sin of nonsensical apparent commonality of chassis components (The suspension on the DI Morgen and also the Behemoth II is the same...also cannot function).

I am not, however, a fanatic. I've warmed to some, because somehow; they work. Like the Tundra Wolf and the Thunderfox. By and large DA designs look as I have described above.

[cavingjan]

Just about all of the MW:DA pieces had CBT stats prior to MW:DA stats. Pre or post dating the sculpt is a mixed bag.

One of the things that WK did about half way through the series is to make sure that all mechs could actually fit a pilot. I'm not sure we can fit a pilot in a lot of CBT sculpts.

[Heavyguard]

I seems to recall a lot of the mechs not have stats prior to showing up in MWDA. Was this internal stats or am I missing something?

[cavingjan]

Internal. External via dossiers. It went from CBT stats to MW stats through a conversion then faction traits modified them (+2 range for energy for Spirit Cat, -2 range for ballistic for Spirit Cat, etc.) And finally a manual tweek if needed.

[beachhead1985]

Just about all of the MW:DA pieces had CBT stats prior to MW:DA stats. Pre or post dating the sculpt is a mixed bag.

You mean to tell me that they used a rules system for a game which was effectively dead at the time; not being published by the owner, no planned future and used it to design stats to back up the pieces they were making for their new and different game?

Is this a dimension of the "All according to plan!" Theory of the role played by MWDA in the rebirth of battletech?

Funny thing i've noticed about the design rules in battletech. When I want to do something and do it for looks or similarity to a historical item, especially a vehicle; I can almost always do it. I may not come out with a balanced, efficient or even effective design, but I can sure do it. The rules are that flexible, it's one of the nice things about the game. On the other hand; Behemoth II.

Here is a common case in point on my side though; Ref the DA Condor and the DI Schmitt. Now I really like the Schmitt as a mini and art item. The Condor...is not a condor, end of story, but whatever. Scope out those LRM racks; those are LRM-15s. Divided Evenly in two racks of...8 each side. Hmmm. Now on the CGI art, yeah, argument is made for one of the missile ports being capped, but on the DA minis, they are clearly 8 to a side, this is the same on the BT minis.

Of course the mainline game has always been guilty of this; Atlas LRMs, anyone? And just where is the Autocannon for the Hermes II? It's a choice of style over substance and whereas it's the exception in BT (Wonder if anyone wants an atlas with the 6 and 5-rack missile systems depicted in the original 3025 art?), DA takes style every time and that style is derived from the exaggerated lines of children's toys, 90s comicbooks and Super-Deformed, kid-friendly art stylings (Zaku-Zaku!) which is where we get the uniformly huge guns, hilariously exposed GI Joe-like cockpits on the front of combat vehicles, exposed ammo feeds and working parts, ect.

One of the things that WK did about half way through the series is to make sure that all mechs could actually fit a pilot. I'm not sure we can fit a pilot in a lot of CBT sculpts.

Eh you may be right about that, but I just assume that 10 meters tall is more of a guideline than a hard and fast upper limit for mech size. I assume they vary widely up to almost 20 meters tall, personally.

[cavingjan]

The used the rules for a game system that was very much alive and well. With no planned droppage of said game system. An old and very incorrect myth that is quite irritating to hear spouted time and time again.

[Saint]

Stalker II
Stalker II
Stalker II
 :Jumpy:

[beachhead1985]

The used the rules for a game system that was very much alive and well. With no planned droppage of said game system. An old and very incorrect myth that is quite irritating to hear spouted time and time again.

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I've seen how the art and stats match up for various DA units, such as the behemoth II.

Got a source?

Also I was around when DA came out. Announcements like "no further battletech products are planned; Dark Age is literally the future of the franchise." were more the mien I observed. Now; i'll admit, frankly, I cannot cite that as a source myself, because, frankly MWDA is dead and I was pretty bitter then and now with what was going on.

[D.Jensen]

the uniformly huge guns, hilariously exposed GI Joe-like cockpits on the front of combat vehicles, ...

BT had huge guns and exposed cockpits long before MWDA; exposed cockpits: Battlemaster, Timberwolf; huge guns: Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman

Eh you may be right about that, but I just assume that 10 meters tall is more of a guideline than a hard and fast upper limit for mech size. I assume they vary widely up to almost 20 meters tall, personally.

20 meters stinks of gundam and all those Japanimation type mecha to me.  I like my mechs in the 10 meter range, though I agree there must be some variation by degrees.

[Shin Yodama]

I thought 'mechs were originally slated as 8-12 meters tall, waaaay back when it first began. I'm sure that will have changed slightly, what with the likes of the Flea and the superheavies, so maybe 6-14 meters? Surely no further outside this envelope?

[Klat]

Maybe we should start a thread for discussion of MWDA art direction and get this thread back to suggestions for future miniatures for IWM?

Someone was keeping track of what was suggested, is that up to date?

[Wrangler]

Cave Lion and Raiders MK 1 and MK2 would be nice.

[BCullen]

I suppose I'll offer up my list as well, so here it is in order from greatest interest to least:

Cuchulainn Battle Armor
Black Wolf Battle Armor
(I know this is technically about mechs, but I consider those two armors to be two of the highest points of 3145)

Viking IIC
Shadow Hawk IIC 8
Loki MK II
Thor II
Tenshi
Vulture MK III
Gun
Gauntlet
Gotterdammerung
Stalker II
King Crab KGC-009

[Klat]

Thanks to Martian in another thread I'm reminded of a somewhat obscure 'Mech that I'd love to see a mini of; the Bakeneko. Great art and a wonderful 'Mech.

[beachhead1985]

BT had huge guns and exposed cockpits long before MWDA; exposed cockpits: Battlemaster, Timberwolf; huge guns: Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman

Yeah, on mechs; it's an aesthetic, one that works in a game where you can only have 9 armour (normally) on any mech. No such weakness on a tank. I mean, unless you're playing with GI Joes; then yeah; huge canopy is the schtick.

And again; long apparent weapons, as on Marauder/Warhammer/Rifleman= realistic. Reference any book on tanks, artillery, warships. ect. You will see those kind of long, over-hanging gun barrels.

Now, let's look back at Gundam...

20 meters stinks of gundam and all those Japanimation type mecha to me.  I like my mechs in the 10 meter range, though I agree there must be some variation by degrees.

So variation by degrees is fine, 20 meters is over the top. Okay, that's not a bad position to take; you allow some variance, but you set a limit. My limit is just higher than yours. But for me 20 meters is reserved for the biggest assault mechs; the atlas and pillager for instance. I'd peg the king crab at 7-8 meters by the way. I'd be fine with some light mechs around 5 meters tall, especially quads.

But lets revisit those guns.

Here's the pesky japanese aesthetic you don't like again again; Now, I think this has it's place; done well it can work. Personally, I think the AC-20 on the Thunder, Hunchback and possibly the Centurion's Ac/10 are like the chest guns. Once in a while, I think the long, Gatling-type barrel makes sense. it can also be done poorly and often is and overdone, which it is now. Not much variety.

This, however is more what I see in MWDA designs; . Note the huge bores, exposed ammo feeds, ect.

[speck]

Just wanted to let everyone know that we have already chosen what minis will be in the first two 2015 releases. Will be submitting to Mike the list for his approval and when I am able to post the list I will do so.