Mech Chin Turret and Pintle-mount question

[FedComGirl]

Hi

I know I'm probably bugging you with all my questions. I'm sorry. I'll try to keep quiet after this one.

Any way, I was just wondering if there will be official rules for mech mounted chin turrets. No I'm  not so much asking about the Locust, although I've read it having one and the cover of Wolf's Dragoons shows the turret rotated to the side. What made me ask is the Marauder II in Wolf's Dragoons. The fluff says that "the troublesome AC/5 was replaced by a chin-turreted heavy laser." The art for the Marauder II sure looks like it has a chin-turreted laser. However that isn't reflected in the stats. I was wondering if that was a variant the Dragoons experimented with and if there would be rules to allow me to use it in a game?

Oh, the 3050 fluff for the Loki says that it mounts triple pintle mounted machine guns. I've also read about the Marauder's AC/5 being pintle mounted. Will there be rules or will that still be not allowed?

Thanks

[Paul]

No. That functionality falls within the existing rules with regards to firing arcs. All weapons are capable of some articulation beyond that provided by a Torso Twist, the examples you indicate are just fluff explanations of that existing mechanism.

Paul

[FedComGirl]

Oh. I know torso mounted weapons have the capability to move so they can fire into all the hexes in their arcs but saying the weapon is "turreted" or "pintle' mounted sounds like they can do more than that. They certainly look like they should be capable of that. I guess I could house rule it.

How come the Marauder II doesn't have the medium laser though? Even if it doesn't have a "turret" turret the medium laser should still be in the stats. Right?

[Paul]

Oh. I know torso mounted weapons have the capability to move so they can fire into all the hexes in their arcs but saying the weapon is "turreted" or "pintle' mounted sounds like they can do more than that. They certainly look like they should be capable of that. I guess I could house rule it.

Sure, feel free. Might be as easy as allowing such weapons access to both Arm Arcs. That's a pretty broad traverse.

How come the Marauder II doesn't have the medium laser though? Even if it doesn't have a "turret" turret the medium laser should still be in the stats. Right?

I interpret "heavy laser" from the fluff as referring to the Large Laser it has.

Paul

[FedComGirl]

Sure, feel free. Might be as easy as allowing such weapons access to both Arm Arcs. That's a pretty broad traverse.

I was thinking of making them actual turrets with weight that take up a critical slot. I would think it'd be totally possible without being unbalancing. The turrets already exist. I'd just be putting on on the mechs to satisfy the fluff.

I interpret "heavy laser" from the fluff as referring to the Large Laser it has.

I suppose that makes sense. But why call it "chin-turreted" when it's still pintle mounted? And why does the art show a chin-turreted lalser? It's a little confusing. I guess I'll house rule that too?

Since I'm on the topic of mech turrets the prototype Jenner's turret is still a turret right? Weighs 10% of the laser and takes a critical slot and can rotate and all that? What kind of turret is it though? It can't be a head turret because that requires torso mounted cockpits which weren't available then. Being a shoulder turret wouldn't fit either as it's "centrally" mounted and quad turrets are out because the Jenner isn't a quad. Can you tell me what kind it is?

Thanks :)

[Paul]

I was thinking of making them actual turrets with weight that take up a critical slot. I would think it'd be totally possible without being unbalancing. The turrets already exist. I'd just be putting on on the mechs to satisfy the fluff.

That'd work too. I was thinking along the lines of a chin-turret on a Mech like the Marauder being inhibited by the rest of the 'Mech.

I suppose that makes sense. But why call it "chin-turreted" when it's still pintle mounted? And why does the art show a chin-turreted lalser? It's a little confusing. I guess I'll house rule that too?

That's some pretty old material, apparently the writer and the artist at the time had different ideas. Sometimes the art and fluff don't line up.

Since I'm on the topic of mech turrets the prototype Jenner's turret is still a turret right? Weighs 10% of the laser and takes a critical slot and can rotate and all that? What kind of turret is it though? It can't be a head turret because that requires torso mounted cockpits which weren't available then. Being a shoulder turret wouldn't fit either as it's "centrally" mounted and quad turrets are out because the Jenner isn't a quad. Can you tell me what kind it is?

We're talking about the Large Laser one mentioned in the Jenner's TRO entry?
I'd say that'd likewise fall in the same category. No crits, no tonnage, access to the front arc; basically a fluff remark. I presume having to take a full ton for the turret will be onerous on the Jenner's design, and as you noticed, it's not really possible to mount one with the existing turret rules without other modifications.

Paul

[FedComGirl]

That'd work too. I was thinking along the lines of a chin-turret on a Mech like the Marauder being inhibited by the rest of the 'Mech.

Exactly :)

That's some pretty old material, apparently the writer and the artist at the time had different ideas. Sometimes the art and fluff don't line up.

Oh. I did wonder. House rules I guess. Unless someone will make an official version  :)

We're talking about the Large Laser one mentioned in the Jenner's TRO entry?
I'd say that'd likewise fall in the same category. No crits, no tonnage, access to the front arc; basically a fluff remark. I presume having to take a full ton for the turret will be onerous on the Jenner's design, and as you noticed, it's not really possible to mount one with the existing turret rules without other modifications.

The thing is it isn't just a single large laser. The 3025 entry says,

"The original Jenners mounted two Agra 27C medium lasers and a Diplan HD large laser on a central turret, but this configuration could easily be disarmed by a direct hit to a turret"

Going by that original Jenners had all their weapons mounted in that turret and that the turret was an actual piece of equipment that could be damaged.

Adding a 1 ton turret wouldn't be too much of a problem. The fluff says what was removed and added during the Jenners creation. Going by that we can find 6 tons for a large laser and turret ring easily. The problem is the turret isn't allowed by the rules. I can think of one easy fix but I don't know if I'm allowed to post it or not.

[Paul]

The thing is it isn't just a single large laser. The 3025 entry says,  Going by that original Jenners had all their weapons mounted in that turret and that the turret was an actual piece of equipment that could be damaged.

Well, that's one valid way of interpreting that sentence.
A second way is to evaluate it as meaning that only the LL was in the Turret.

Adding a 1 ton turret wouldn't be too much of a problem. The fluff says what was removed and added during the Jenners creation. Going by that we can find 6 tons for a large laser and turret ring easily. The problem is the turret isn't allowed by the rules. I can think of one easy fix but I don't know if I'm allowed to post it or not.

Well, with onerous, I meant that I don't think the Jenner really wants to shed even more armor to mount such, but I agree that it would be possible.
But as you note, with the current rules, you'd burden it even further, weight wise.

Feel free to post any house rules you like in the Fan section.
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/board,85.0.html

There's 2 reasons for that:
- Keeps this board focused on the things that are, rather than the things that might be.
- Also doesn't disqualify your idea outright; just by putting your idea somewhere where a writer/freelancer is likely to see it means we'll actively avoid using the idea.
And we avoid the Fan Design area.

Paul

[FedComGirl]

Well, that's one valid way of interpreting that sentence.
A second way is to evaluate it as meaning that only the LL was in the Turret.

 ??? It says two lasers and a large mounted on a central turret. That's three lasers. It also says the Jenner would be disarmed by a direct hit to the turret. If it was just the large laser the mech wouldn't be disarmed. It'd lose its main weapon but it wouldn't be disarmed.

The next paragraph it says that the design was modified to its current configuration with two medium lasers per side. It doesn't even say arms. The text says directionally variable mountings.

The SRM was added after in the paragraph after that.

Well, with onerous, I meant that I don't think the Jenner really wants to shed even more armor to mount such, but I agree that it would be possible.
But as you note, with the current rules, you'd burden it even further, weight wise.

Um... the Jenner started off with less armor, gained more and then lost some more when the SRMs were added. So there were two other versions of the Jenner before the JR7-D. The first with a turret and the second with lasers in the arms no missile launcher and extra armor. It's all in the text. Not just TRO-3025 either but also TRO3039.

Besides even with less armor, new armors could be used to make up the difference.

Feel free to post any house rules you like in the Fan section.
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/board,85.0.html

There's 2 reasons for that:
- Keeps this board focused on the things that are, rather than the things that might be.
- Also doesn't disqualify your idea outright; just by putting your idea somewhere where a writer/freelancer is likely to see it means we'll actively avoid using the idea.
And we avoid the Fan Design area.

Thanks. That's why I didn't want to say anything. I'd like to see official stats for the prototype Jenner and other mechs are supposed to have turrets. I didn't want to say what the easy fix was and then not be able to see those mechs.