Author Topic: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle  (Read 9376 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« on: 02 November 2014, 22:22:44 »


I won't lie. This is a short article, and that's by design. I have requests that will take me longer to get typed, but between helping a friend move today, two late nights in a row, and a very bad week at work, I figured a small article means I can get to bed that much sooner. Apologies if this feels a little less comprehensive than usual.

We all know how the Capellan Confederation works in the Dark Age era- stealth armor, mines, all the dirty tricks. We also know that when it comes to scout units, the Cappies know what they're doing- after all, the Raven has been the premiere super-scout Mech for over a century at this point. But what do you use for those scout formations that aren't Mech-centric? How do the armored forces of the CCAF detect hidden units without their own Ravens? Simple- you build a Raven without the legs, and call it a Luduan. Let's take a look.

The Luduan, in an era of complex and multi-role units, is nice and simple- it's an electronics hauler, pure and simple, and anything not related to its role of quickly moving those systems to where they need to be is minimized. The unit really serves the role the Raven does, albeit with a bit less in its toy chest than most Raven versions. The lightweight hovercraft fits in a small vehicle bay without any trouble, making it easily moved with even smaller raiding forces- no small consideration.

The 25 ton Luduan starts with 145-rated fusion engine, moving the odd-shaped little monster at a lively 11/17 movement curve. This means that the electronics systems that the Luduan relies on are quickly moved to where they're needed, even over water obstacles. While a fusion engine isn't cheap per se, in the post-arms reduction era it probably was easy to find use for these engines while Battlemech production was 'lessened' (or in Liao's case, just hidden). An experiment by this author in tinkering in a fuel cell engine was intriguing, but not really worth the effort.

As so many Capellan units do, the Luduan features stealth armor for its shell, which combined with the high speed means hitting a Luduan is going to be a challenge. In this case, that's good, because as one can imagine on a 25-ton craft, large-caliber hits are probably going to go badly. The three tons of armor are split fairly evenly overall, with twelve points in front, ten to the sides, and eight points on the rear and in the turret. Speed and stealth are your real protection- if this armor is getting tested, you're using your Luduan wrong.

This 'using it wrong' treatment goes for the weaponry- if you're shooting, something went awry. Three Magshot guns- perhaps a tweak at the Federated Suns?- are mounted in a small turret on the starboard side of the vehicle's forward glacis. Fed by a ton of ammunition, these weapons should pretty much never really be used except in an emergency- you're not here for gun-toting. You have other jobs, so focus on your real work.

That real work is to provide electronic support, as I've mentioned before, and you have no shortage of tools for the job. Hidden in the turret with those useless Magshots is a TAG system, always a handy thing to have for artillery support. You'll know where to aim that TAG because nothing hides from the Bloodhound probe in the body- find a target, TAG it, drop Arrow rounds on it, laugh maniacally, repeat. Your stealth armor needed an ECM suite to run, and while the old Guardian would have worked fine, here we find the mighty Angel ECM suite instead, making it even harder to hit a Luduan with things like Streaks. Did I mention this is a nasty customer to deal with? A stealthy scout making life miserable with that TAG system and exposing all your dirty tricks, and you can't hit it to get rid of it? Ugh, no wonder Liao is knocking on New Avalon's door.

No variants exist, but a few ideas are obvious. As I said, a fuel cell was intriguing, but didn't really go anywhere for me that the fusion engine didn't do better. The Magshots are pretty forgettable here- again, if you're firing them, you made an error. Popping them off for a couple of ER medium lasers and another half-ton of armor would be a better use of that tonnage, but even then it still shouldn't be firing them except as a 'hell, why not?' shot. Otherwise, this really is scout-tank perfection. Enjoy it- and fear it, because if you neighbor the Capellans, this is going to be a frustrating sight in Capellan armor formations.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #1 on: 03 November 2014, 01:03:01 »
Hmm, had not see the art . . . I will have to look closer when I have time.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #2 on: 03 November 2014, 01:08:51 »
It' interesting to compare this to the Ebony, which is a 10(11)/15(17) Stealth Armored 'Mech.

As for the engine, a 145 rating does not work for a 'Mech and the only vehicle that uses it looks to be the J. Edgar and in the process of looking to see if the CC was making them I found something that I prey is another case of Sarna Being Wrong

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #3 on: 03 November 2014, 02:10:20 »
Hovercraft...? Looks like an ASF after a bad landing to me. :(

Anyway, the idea is neat, if problematic. Having to shut off the probe when the stealth goes active is always a bother! Btw, it won't work with a FCE or lasers - stealth armor count as an energy "weapon" and requires 10 SHS.

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #4 on: 03 November 2014, 02:12:55 »
I haven't had the chance to use Luduan yet but it looks like it has a lot of potential on paper. The CCAF has always needed a solid counterpart to the Raven, and quite frankly the CCAF would probably be well-served replacing the Raven with the Luduan altogether. It's dirt-cheap, has a better electronics suite, and is nearly twice as fast. With how prominent the augmented lance has become in CCAF doctrine, it slots in perfectly: just add a pair of these to a lance of Catapult C5s, or a lance of Archer 7Ls loaded with semi-guided LRMs, and go to town.


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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #5 on: 03 November 2014, 04:17:42 »
Those Magshots are a bit less useless then you think. IIRC they get a damage bonus to infantry, right? If so, then those Magshots allow the Luduan to drive off infantry who ignore stealth armor modifiers.

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #6 on: 03 November 2014, 04:26:49 »
Those Magshots are a bit less useless then you think. IIRC they get a damage bonus to infantry, right? If so, then those Magshots allow the Luduan to drive off infantry who ignore stealth armor modifiers.

Unfortunately, no, you're thinking of the AP gauss rifle. The Magshot gets no bonus against infantry.


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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #7 on: 03 November 2014, 04:55:32 »
Hovercraft...? Looks like an ASF after a bad landing to me. :(


It's stealth, so it makes sense to draw it like that. Usually Plog puts definitely some thought into his stuff.

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #8 on: 03 November 2014, 05:24:11 »
Unfortunately, no, you're thinking of the AP gauss rifle. The Magshot gets no bonus against infantry.

So much for that idea. :/

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #9 on: 03 November 2014, 06:32:37 »
It' interesting to compare this to the Ebony, which is a 10(11)/15(17) Stealth Armored 'Mech.

As for the engine, a 145 rating does not work for a 'Mech and the only vehicle that uses it looks to be the J. Edgar and in the process of looking to see if the CC was making them I found something that I prey is another case of Sarna Being Wrong

At no point in the article did I say that the engine was used by another unit, whether a Mech, a tank, or a coffee maker. If you have complaints about my writing, great, but if you need to invent things to argue about you're in the wrong thread.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #10 on: 03 November 2014, 07:03:48 »
It's stealth, so it makes sense to draw it like that. Usually Plog puts definitely some thought into his stuff.

Interestingly, my first thought upon viewing the artwork was to think of the Chaerona aerospace fighter, despite them having virtually nothing in common with each other. It's a very unique looking unit, no doubt, which is one of the reasons it caught my attention when the CapCon book came out. That it's an absolutely superb scout unit doesn't hurt the cause any.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #11 on: 03 November 2014, 07:12:20 »
This vehicle is amazing. It's one of (if not *the*) cheapest ways of fielding a complete advanced electronics package, and it's on a fast and nimble package, to boot. The fact that it has Stealth Armor to help it close in or to use in conjunction with the TAG makes it even better in my eyes.

IMO one of the best vehicles to come out of the entire 3145 lineup. Thank you for the write-up!
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #12 on: 03 November 2014, 07:47:59 »
At no point in the article did I say that the engine was used by another unit, whether a Mech, a tank, or a coffee maker. If you have complaints about my writing, great, but if you need to invent things to argue about you're in the wrong thread forum.

Fixed that for you. Minor nitpick, but I'm a stickler for accuracy. O0
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #13 on: 03 November 2014, 11:19:19 »
Anyway, the idea is neat, if problematic. Having to shut off the probe when the stealth goes active is always a bother!
Nice thing about the Bloodhound is that only Angel-level ECM stops it from functioning, and the stealth armor only causes the unit using it to be treated as if it was in a hostile guardian-level ECM field.  So you can keep the stealth on and the Bloodhound will keep working.  Being unable to have the stealth and the Angel at the same time hurts, though. 

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #14 on: 03 November 2014, 11:38:29 »
At no point in the article did I say that the engine was used by another unit, whether a Mech, a tank, or a coffee maker. If you have complaints about my writing, great, but if you need to invent things to argue about you're in the wrong thread.
The part of the article that mentions it certainly reads that way... Or at least that was how I read it (it uses engines that aren't needed for mech production any longer).

Not that it it particularly matters to me. IMHO it should be easy enough to "upclass" or "downclass" an engine within a limited size range. If you have a factory making, say, 160 SFEs for Locusts it shouldn't take much to start making 145s instead.

Nice thing about the Bloodhound is that only Angel-level ECM stops it from functioning, and the stealth armor only causes the unit using it to be treated as if it was in a hostile guardian-level ECM field.  So you can keep the stealth on and the Bloodhound will keep working.  Being unable to have the stealth and the Angel at the same time hurts, though. 
I think you may want to ask for a clarification to that answer. "For Stealth units equipped with Angel ECM, it is treated as a normal Guardian ECM when stealth is activated." reads like an answer to what an AECM suit can do when used with stealth armor, not what effect turning the stealth armor on has.

If nothing else, an Active probe is possibly the worst thing available if you want to run silent! :D

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #15 on: 03 November 2014, 11:43:09 »
In case anyone was curious about the hover's name sake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luduan

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #16 on: 03 November 2014, 11:53:35 »
The longer I look at this thing the more the MagShots stick out as not making sense.  I mean, an MML3 or SRM2 would make a lot more sense.  Sure, you've only got a ton for ammo, so you'd have to choose wisely, but options like inferno, smoke, T-Aug, frag, etc just seem so much more....Capellan.  MagShots are basically SRM-1s with no alternate ammo choices.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #17 on: 03 November 2014, 12:17:17 »
Maybe they were concerned about reactive armor and/or AMS? Given how common missiles are on scout/strike  hovertanks, switching it around could be handy when facing something that has a counter for those missiles.

Magshots also make the  Luduan more weather-tolerant than missile-heavy units, as weather conditions that have an adverse effect on weapons fire tends to hurt missiles more than other weapon types if they are treated  differently.

(I'd prefer SRMs anyway, I'm just looking at the ways Magshots might have any kind of edge over SRMs.)
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #18 on: 03 November 2014, 12:44:52 »
the.....er, "eclectic" design of the Luduan is probably explainable by the simple fact that the stealth armor usually looks silly when mounted on a design not originally intended for stealth. without the stealth armor's need for flat surfaces along the front pontoons(?), not only would it look a lot less strange, but the pilot would have an excellent field of vision.

while i'd love to know more of the design history of this thing, speculation based on the finished model makes me think the Luduan started conception as a line-filler hover before liao "politely asked" them to secretly rework it with all the trimmings of a stealth-armored pain in everyone's kiester. the forward pontoons(?) for steering, exposed rear engine, and light turret all hint at having been a much less advanced design at the start....make me wonder how much bang milita could fit into a Luduan model without the expense of stealth armor and fusion holding it back.....
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #19 on: 03 November 2014, 12:49:33 »
Interestingly, my first thought upon viewing the artwork was to think of the Chaerona aerospace fighter, despite them having virtually nothing in common with each other. It's a very unique looking unit, no doubt, which is one of the reasons it caught my attention when the CapCon book came out. That it's an absolutely superb scout unit doesn't hurt the cause any.

It reminds me of FreeSpace's GTF Ulysses (probably because I've been aware of that one for longer than the Chaeronea) but you're right, it's definitely unique.

I agree it's an excellent scouting specialist.  I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure that the Bloodhound's more advanced capabilities aren't available when you're under stealth but if they're not, I'm not sure it's a big deal most of the time.  You'll usually be close enough when sniffing around with an active probe that the stealth armor isn't going to help you much with whatever you find.  Hovers aren't my first choice for sniffing around tight terrain anyway.

Maybe they were concerned about reactive armor and/or AMS? Given how common missiles are on scout/strike  hovertanks, switching it around could be handy when facing something that has a counter for those missiles.

Magshots also make the  Luduan more weather-tolerant than missile-heavy units, as weather conditions that have an adverse effect on weapons fire tends to hurt missiles more than other weapon types if they are treated  differently.

(I'd prefer SRMs anyway, I'm just looking at the ways Magshots might have any kind of edge over SRMs.)

This isn't the first stealthy unit with the Magshots, or even the first vehicle - the Cavalry Infiltrator carried them, too.  Maybe it's the reduced visual signature compared to a missile's exhaust and smoke trail?

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #20 on: 03 November 2014, 13:42:21 »
There is that, yes. I'm always a fan of scouts/etc that actually try to be sneaky, as opposed to screaming through the air on fusion torches while broadcasting loudly enough to be heard light-years away. I wonder if the Luduan's odd shape is also part of this, an attempt to reduce the amount of noise  is makes while moving, or reduce the amount of dust it kicks up.

Another thought about the Magshots:  an SRM-based tank that has to go guerrilla must use preplaced caches or raid enemy stockpiles to replce ammo. A Luduan's crew merely needs accessto scrap metal and a machine shop, and they can improvise their own reloads.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #21 on: 03 November 2014, 14:26:23 »
It kinda looks WiGE-y to me. Also I want to know where the Fa-Shihs are supposed to clamp onto on that thing. :D

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #22 on: 03 November 2014, 14:39:27 »
The Magshots are pretty forgettable here- again, if you're firing them, you made an error. Popping them off for a couple of ER medium lasers and another half-ton of armor would be a better use of that tonnage,

This isn't the first stealthy unit with the Magshots, or even the first vehicle - the Cavalry Infiltrator carried them, too.  Maybe it's the reduced visual signature compared to a missile's exhaust and smoke trail?

The words you are looking for are "heat sinks".
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #23 on: 03 November 2014, 14:55:57 »
Another thought about the Magshots:  an SRM-based tank that has to go guerrilla must use preplaced caches or raid enemy stockpiles to replce ammo. A Luduan's crew merely needs accessto scrap metal and a machine shop, and they can improvise their own reloads.

okay, i know that a Gauss weapon is firing solid metal slugs through the use of magnetically transferred kinetic propulsion, but how feasible is using roughly made scrap metal really? how much of a variance in shape/magnetically responsive metals lead to accuracy issues for their projectiles?
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #24 on: 03 November 2014, 15:10:10 »
Plenty  of issues to be sure...but crap ammo is still better than no ammo.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #25 on: 03 November 2014, 19:27:59 »
The words you are looking for are "heat sinks".
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Doh! You are correct, I forgot about that issue. I'd still rather see an SRM rack or an MG array or something like that, but I'll own that mistake.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #26 on: 03 November 2014, 20:10:37 »
I am desperately trying to get past how ridiculous it looks. So far the best I can do in that respect is say at least it's not as ugly as they Ishtar.

It's a connundrum because the vehicle itself is so tempting.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #27 on: 03 November 2014, 20:56:08 »
Simple- you build a Raven without the legs, and call it a Luduan. Let's take a look.

Thanks. Now it is my headcanon that the prototype Luduan was a Raven torso bolted to a hoverskirt, complete with "Tis Only A Flesh Wound" painted on the side.
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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #28 on: 03 November 2014, 22:14:19 »
Thanks. Now it is my headcanon that the prototype Luduan was a Raven torso bolted to a hoverskirt, complete with "Tis Only A Flesh Wound" painted on the side.
That's not too far off the initial concept pitch. :)

Thanks for a great article always, Hellbie.

And for everyone wondering about the MagShots, JH is correct that the weapons were absolutely secondary to the primary mission of flying around hunting and TAGing. And being annoyingly difficult to hit. As Jellico pointed out, energy weapons were right out due to heat sink requirements thanks to the stealth armor. In the end, they're installed to give the crew warm fuzzies about having some degree of self defense while avoiding taking a vehicle crammed with high-end gear and tacking on a CASEless ammo bomb. Yes, the MagShots will cause feedback but the craft, and possibly even the crew, has a chance of being salvageable.
« Last Edit: 03 November 2014, 23:08:00 by Pa Weasley »

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Re: VotW: Luduan Scout Vehicle
« Reply #29 on: 03 November 2014, 22:56:31 »
Okay, I have to ask: how does one really use it? Because sure, you have stealth armor...but your fancy electronics do squat for your teammates while you have it engaged (BH doesn't work at all, and the Angel will only interfer with your stuff and nobody else). So what's the proper doctrine for use of a Luduan?

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