Author Topic: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special  (Read 7807 times)

GreekFire

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ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« on: 09 December 2014, 17:42:23 »
Last week we took a look at 2-ton ProtoMechs. Most of the article ended up covering their flaws and limitations, a side effect of the high weight investments needed to make a ProtoMech functional in the first place. This time around, we'll be taking a look at 3-ton ProtoMechs - where ProtoMechs begin becoming dangerous machines of their own.

The main advantage of the 3-ton ProtoMech is the obvious addition of 900 kg to play around with. This is a rather huge deal; at such light tonnages, increases in engine size come at relatively cheap weight increments. Each increase of one running MP costs a mere 75 kg up until the 9/14 movement profile is reached, when we start referring to the master engine list. This extra weight also means that armor or firepower can be increased to much more respectable levels than what the Harpy and Erinyes were limited with. The other advantage is the extra point of internal structure in the center torso; it increases from 2 to 3.

The two canon designs we have are the Siren and the Cecerops. Both use this increased weight to intelligently focus on speed; a 3-ton ProtoMech is always going to have a cap of 20 points of armor (if a main gun is added, 17 without). This will never be enough to survive a 10-point hit to the center torso, so trying to turn them into tough machines is never going to work well compared to what heavier models will be able to survive. Instead, by emphasizing speed, the designers made dedicated scouts and spotters that come in cheaper than anything else while remaining quite competitive in their own way. I've once again put both designs into a single article because of their many similarities. They're both designs that chose the "speed" side of the maneuverability-toughness-armament triangle, with similar armor profiles and weapon choices.


SONG OF THE SIREN

From TRO:3060

There are few ProtoMechs that I love to use as much as the Siren. Although the Roc long stole the limelight, championed as being the perfect balance of firepower, armor and maneuverability, the Siren has the distinction of being what I consider to be the best possible 3-ton ProtoMech, and even one of the best ProtoMechs in the game. Somewhat unfortunately, it is not the most prolific ProtoMech - only three (four, if you include to now-defunct Jaguars) Clans have it in their RATs: the Cloud Cobras, the Ice Hellions, and the Star Adders. Only the Hellions are sourced as using the Siren 4 and 5 as of now.

The Siren is a member of the first true wave of production-level ProtoMechs that popped out in 3059. It isn’t much heavier than the Harpy that preceded it, but does that extra ton ever make a huge difference. This ton in its entirety is spent on a 45-rated engine, giving the Siren an eye-popping 10/15 speed. After figuring in the extra 100 kg spent on its chassis, the Siren is left with an extra 300 kg to spend on weapons and armor when compared with, once again, the Harpy. Most of this is spent on an extra gun; the Siren uses two Light Machine Guns (the first unit to ever carry them, actually) fed by 10 shots each. It has roughly the same amount of armor protection as the Harpy: 12 points, arrayed as 2(head), 5(torso), 1(arms), 3(legs). Although at first glance this armor appears just as fragile as the Harpy’s, there exists one very important advantage: the extra point of internal structure in the torso means it is now able to take a 7-point hit there without dying.

I absolutely love this thing. The amazing speed means it can go wherever you want it to go, while the decent range makes it somewhat flexible to position when compared to units using ER Micro Lasers or normal Machine Guns. You should never be under a +4 to-hit modifier when using it, which makes dealing with Points of them an absolute pain. Your standard Clan pilot will be facing rolls with a base of:

3(gunnery) + 1(walked) +4(TMM) = 8. This may not seem that high, but requiring 8’s at short range (without figuring in terrain or other modifiers) to hit a low priority target that’s guaranteed to tank a 7-point hit without dying is an unattractive prospect. That’s a 41.67% chance to land a hit in the first place, followed by an 11.1% chance of it turning into a near miss. Believe it or not, this also makes a Point of them brilliant spotters.

Their BV is darned cheap as well (86 points), a point of them costs 430 BV - more than easy enough to fit into a force without bringing the rest of it down. This makes them absolutely incredible for maneuver warfare. Any tactic using ProtoMechs to hamper enemy movement is, in my opinion, at its best when used by Sirens. They are so fast and so cheap that your opponent will dislike having to focus them down. Obviously, they are also a potent danger to infantry-heavy forces and their supporting APCs. Don't forget that the Siren’s BV compares favorably to the Harpy: the Harpy comes in at 56 BV, while the Siren offers a 300% increase in ground speed, a 200% increase in firepower, and a meager but unquantifiable (in the form of increased resilience to 7-point hits) 9% increase in armor, all for only about 53.6% more BV - 30 points. It is definitely worth upgrading any and all Harpy or Erinyes Protos into Sirens.

The Siren 2 first appeared in 3061. It's also the first ProtoMech variant ever made. The simplicity of it explains why: the Light Machine Guns are swapped to Machine Guns with no other changes taking place. BV is unaffected. Using one of these over the original comes down to personal preference. Do you want a bit more range, or a bit more firepower? I personally favor 3-2 formation of three Siren 2’s supported by two standard Sirens. Siren 2s work at their best when they hug their target, while the standard Sirens can take position at the extremities of the zone you want to cover without losing effectiveness.

The Siren 3 has a larger focus on direct combat compared to the original two. Appearing in 3064, its speed drops down to 8/12 in order to fit in two SRM-1s with 10 shots each. The reduced speed is a bit of a pain, since that +4 TMM is no longer all but guaranteed, but the greatly improved range and flexibility of alternate munitions cannot be ignored. The only problem here is its BV cost; it comes in at a pricy 120 BV. Make sure you’re getting the most out of those launchers. Use the greater range of the SRMs to stay alive longer, while loading up on a few infernos will keep them potent anti-infantry units. They aren’t as good at encircling tactics as the original two, which makes me slightly less fond of them.

3068 brought us the Siren 4, a near-ideal example of how to use a Myomer Booster. Speed jumps up to 10/15(20), basically making Siren 4s miniaturized Fire Moths in a condensed package. My only problem with them comes down to the weapon it carries - a single ER Micro Laser, although I will admit that its use here is actually alright. I dislike the weapon, but it has one of the most effective BV/kg ratios available to Protos without being largely useless (re: Flamer). Its use here keeps BV down to 88 points, only 2 points higher than the standard or 2 - while using up the remaining 500 kgs in a straightforward manner. These guys are optimal force multipliers if you’re planning on using your Protos mostly as blockers or vehicle-hunters, although I still personally prefer the standard or 2 and their two possible hits per turn.

The final variant, the Siren 5 came out in 3070, and uses a weapon that everyone loves: the AP Gauss Rifle. It really is a variant of the 3, keeping the 8/12 movement and range, but the dual SRM-1s are replaced by the AP Gauss and 8 shots for it. It's a bit close, but I prefer this guy. It packs a decent whallop and adds good (constant) anti-infantry capabilities when compared to the 3. The heavy per-shot weight of AP Gauss ammo helps brings BV down to 104 points. You have to exploit the greater range, though, you really do. If you do, it'll help make it a safer choice to use against infantry than the Siren/Siren 2. If you don't, you're basically paying more BV for a slower machine.



CRY OF THE CECEROPS

From TRO:3075

I won’t hold back any punches: the Blood Spirits flopped with the Cecerops. Fluff says it's the first second-generation Proto designed, but the 3067 introduction date actually makes it one of the last. This makes its failure even more inexcusable in my eyes. Let me explain. Its speed looks good on paper - no one has ever complained about a 9/14 movement profile (ignoring the Hussar for a moment) - but the 10/15 speed the Siren sports demands the exact same weight investment: 1000 kg. So right off the bat, the Cecerops is gimped. Weaponry genuinely isn’t better at all. An ER Micro Laser is all the Cecerops sports, and I’m not a fan of it in this scenario. The 100 kgs saved by switching from dual Light Machine Guns and their ammo to the laser go straight to armor, with the 14 points of it laid out 3(head), 5(torso), 1(arms), 4(legs). The extra point of armor in the head isn’t going to do much; it doesn’t change the number of 5 or 7-point hits needed to take the Cecerops out. The point of armor in the legs does give them the ability to tough through a single 5-pointer to the legs, but 7-point hits again remain unchanged. I don’t think the trade-off is worth it.

Fluff describes the Cecerops as having been built with protracted engagements in mind. I can see this. Heavier armor combined with an ammoless weapon plays into this. It just doesn’t work well in reality. ProtoMechs rarely survive for longer than 10 turns in the heat of battle, especially not 3-tonners carrying less than a ton of armor. The BV is identical of to Siren, which makes things terrible on the “meta” side of things. The Siren moves faster, deals the same amount of damage, is able to act in an anti-infantry role, and has longer range. The Siren 2 deals double the amount of damage, losing only a single hex of long range and a few points of largely useless armor. There is no situation, outside of fluff battles, where I would choose a Cecerops over either of those base Sirens. Regrettably, Blood Spirits (and the Ravens) have no real choice in the matter.

The Cecerops 2 does the smart thing and drops the engine down to 8/12. Armor is unchanged, but weaponry is improved to a Streak SRM-1 with 10 shots of ammo. The Cecerops 2 has the distinction of being the longest-ranged of the 3-ton ProtoMechs, which actually makes it pretty decent at scout interdiction roles. You have to pay for this range, with it costing 109 BV, but Points of them should be able to cripple scouting vehicles or enemy ProtoMechs. It begs comparison with the Siren 3 or 5, where things boil down to wanting those extra hexes of range (to better deal with enemy units also carrying “light” weapons), or having more flexibility against conventional targets. The Cecerops 2, much more than the two Siren variants, is meant to deal with hardened targets.

The Cecerops 3 brings speed down even more: to 7/11. This really is the bare minimum any 3-ton ProtoMech should move, and even in this case it makes achieving that +4 TMM much more of a hassle than before. Armor is cut into for the first time, a point smartly being removed from the head to go into heavier weaponry: an SRM 2 with 11 shots of ammo. This is a hefty punch with good range, and it has enough ammo to give users the option of delving into alternate munitions. Although similar to the Siren 3, condensing the SRMs into one launcher brings BV down to 106, nearly the same as the Siren 5. It plays well with the Satyr and its variants, filling out Points of them with a low-BV but still (relatively) hard-hitting option.

The last of the 3-tonners, the Cecerops 4 is the only post-3067 variant, first showing up in 3075. Speed is the same as the Cecerops 2, 8/12, but armor has been heavily cut into, now at only 11 points arranged as 2(head), 4(torso), 1(arms), 3(legs). Its armament is a Micro Pulse Laser. The Micro Pulse Laser is a surprisingly potent weapon on ProtoMechs, and BV is only 82 points, but the reduction in survivability hurts. If used at breakneck speeds, the -2 to-hit and 3 points of damage quickly add up to make it a huge pain to opposing light units. The Society is hinted to have been behind the Cecerops 4, which most likely makes it the scout ProtoMech of choice for them. There’s one additional role it works extremely well in: hunting other light ProtoMechs. In light-on-light battles, any weapon that brings THMs down is worth its weight in gold, and the surprisingly powerful 3-point hit of the Micro Pulse Laser can tear through the light armor of nearly all other scout Protos.


CONCLUSION

To recap on what I’ve written, if you want to get the best out of the Siren and Cecerops, make sure you use them tactically. They will not do well in zellbrigen environments, and they will not do well if unsupported. But used as part of a larger force, they are some of the best ProtoMechs out there. Their greater general flexibility means that they should definitely be your go-to for anti-infantry Protos instead of the Harpy or Erinyes.

How do you deal with these quick 3-tonners? It’s certainly a challenge. Dedicating your own BV-cheap unit(s) to hunting them down is your best bet, preferably something using their own Micro Pulse or Small Pulse Lasers to bring those modifiers down, or ER Small Lasers if you’re feeling confident about keeping those THMs under control. Try to separate the Protos from their heavier supporting forces whenever possible, do your best to engage on your terms. It can be nearly impossible to prevent them from surrounding you and limiting your movement options, so immediately and quickly move towards the terrain you want to fight on at from the battle’s onset. If the enemy has a large focus on conventional assets (ProtoMechs, vehicles and the like) move towards any terrain that will heavily hamper their movement. If playing with fire rules, creating defensive walls of fire can help you. If your opponent has larger numbers of ‘Mechs, make haste towards terrain where your weapons will always be at their best brackets, regardless of your or your opponents position. This seems like straightforward stuff, tactics 101, but I can’t stress the importance of doing this enough when against Siren packs. You *will* be pinned down. Make the best of it.

Another option for dealing with them is bringing ProtoMechs of your own. They are their own worst enemy. This scenario almost turns into a game of chess, with each ProtoMech turning into a pawn. They block the advance of the opponent's “pawns”, preventing them from encircling the heavier core of forces and trapping them. Attacks will largely revolve around breaking down this pawn wall first, finding a place to flank it with a larger mass of your own Protos or tearing apart the enemy ProtoMech force first.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

MUL Link - Siren: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2946/siren-standard
MUL Link - Cecerops: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3911/cecerops-standard

Camospecs - Siren: http://camospecs.com/MiniList.asp?Action=Detail&ID=81
Camospecs - Cecerops: http://camospecs.com/MiniList.asp?Action=Detail&ID=1330

IWM - Siren: http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=4783
IWM - Cecerops: http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6250
« Last Edit: 18 May 2020, 13:05:42 by GreekFire »
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Maelwys

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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #1 on: 10 December 2014, 05:53:59 »
The Cecerops' introduction date is rather odd. TR3075 states that it was the first "second-generation" design to be developed in the Clan Homeworlds. You could maybe argue that the Erinyes was developed in the IS by the Jade Falcons, and shouldn't count, but that doesn't make sense for things like the Orc (3066) and the Coyote's Procyon (3063). The Cecerops should be knocked back by as much as 4 years if you're going to follow the fluff (Atleast as far as I can tell at 5am).

The problem with both designs (in their base forms) is that they both have to get in close to use their weaponry. The high TMM is good for them, but when you have to run into short or medium range for clan Pulse lasers, they're going to suffer. You can only roll "Near Miss" so many times.

Of course, at only three tons, you can't expect too much from them unfortunately. Tonnage and armor only goes so far, but they're great for annoying little harassers. :)

Wrangler

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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #2 on: 10 December 2014, 10:01:07 »
I have to agree, that two units in the 3-ton weight Class are challenged in someways if conventional Clan combat would be done.

However, I really think that designs are better in what has been suggested.  Unconventional combat, non-clan combat. Zellbrigen isn't what these little monster were intended for anyways.  That was what impression i got, this was last ditch effort fight honorless Inner Sphere forces with few resources, thus Clan Jaguar's desperation in some cases.

Anti-Infantry work, Scouting, Non-Electronic Warfare Intediction and Pursuit actions. Given the speed and usual use of armor in some cases with firepower.   Ganging up on single BattleMech would be only way a ProtoMech would get chance to make a kill (not counting lucky crit rolls).  I've not been a big fan of the mix sub-variants of a single design working together, given rise Alpha Strike, that may be easier deal with.    I'd hate to see what kind of firepower and movement the (currently Beta Testing) Abstract Combat System would offer a Trinary (15-Points) of ProtoMechs going against a typical battalion of troops.  Disparities of abilities may not be as bad in that system than in our traditional Tactical version of the game.
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GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #3 on: 10 December 2014, 12:09:33 »
The Cecerops' introduction date is rather odd. TR3075 states that it was the first "second-generation" design to be developed in the Clan Homeworlds. You could maybe argue that the Erinyes was developed in the IS by the Jade Falcons, and shouldn't count, but that doesn't make sense for things like the Orc (3066) and the Coyote's Procyon (3063). The Cecerops should be knocked back by as much as 4 years if you're going to follow the fluff (Atleast as far as I can tell at 5am).

Yeah. Another issue is having the Delphyne (3065) appear before both the Chrysaor (3067 as well) and the Cecerops, which contradicts the old Combat Operations fluff. I'll post something in the MUL thread and see what happens.

Quote
The problem with both designs (in their base forms) is that they both have to get in close to use their weaponry. The high TMM is good for them, but when you have to run into short or medium range for clan Pulse lasers, they're going to suffer. You can only roll "Near Miss" so many times.

Of course, at only three tons, you can't expect too much from them unfortunately. Tonnage and armor only goes so far, but they're great for annoying little harassers. :)

I don't think that's a problem, really. They've got a high enough speed to be able to close and use those weapons, and even Pulses wouldn't worry me too much. ProtoMechs are expendable in nearly any situation. If pulse lasers drop down the to-hit number down to 6 and the Siren/Cecerops dies, then all other firepower coming from that 'Mech will get a +2 secondary target modifier if they want to attack anything else. If they don't...then they just wasted a turn focusing down an 86 BV unit that's probably the lowest actual threat (in terms of firepower) to their unit. That's an advantage in my book.

I have to agree, that two units in the 3-ton weight Class are challenged in someways if conventional Clan combat would be done.

However, I really think that designs are better in what has been suggested.  Unconventional combat, non-clan combat. Zellbrigen isn't what these little monster were intended for anyways.  That was what impression i got, this was last ditch effort fight honorless Inner Sphere forces with few resources, thus Clan Jaguar's desperation in some cases.

They're challenged in the same way Fire Moths are in zellbrigen environments. Sure, you might get lucky with initiative and pile a load of backshots on your opponent, but if he gets a clear bead on you, you're dead. There are better ProtoMechs to use for zellbrigen, for sure. Just look at the Steel Viper ProtoMech selection. Heavy hitters, the lot of them. And it makes sense, considering their certain obsession with honor and taint.
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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #4 on: 10 December 2014, 12:14:25 »
It's tough, the smaller protos just don't have many uses.  Recon, counter recon, annoy people.  That's pretty much it.

In larger scale games those things are great, but at a smaller scale it's usually a brawl and these guys get whacked way too easily for my tastes.


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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #5 on: 12 December 2014, 16:49:39 »
I'm a big fan of Sirens and causing all kinds of frustration! They do wonders at throwing wrenches in plans, and they're cheap enough that I don't feel bad about losing one as long as the job gets done. They get bonus points for double guns, since I use them to finish off immobile targets with aimed shots.

They are vulnerable to mines, so if you ever want to take a point out of play reach for Thunder Missiles. You don't even need large launchers since the legs are so vulnerable.
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GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #6 on: 12 December 2014, 17:24:47 »
I'm a big fan of Sirens and causing all kinds of frustration! They do wonders at throwing wrenches in plans, and they're cheap enough that I don't feel bad about losing one as long as the job gets done. They get bonus points for double guns, since I use them to finish off immobile targets with aimed shots.

They are vulnerable to mines, so if you ever want to take a point out of play reach for Thunder Missiles. You don't even need large launchers since the legs are so vulnerable.

Ooh, right. Thunder Missiles. The bane of all ground-based ProtoMechs. Can't believe I forgot to mention those.
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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #7 on: 12 December 2014, 18:10:57 »
I like these articles normally skip over them but these make the ProtoMechs more accessible and interesting nicely done
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GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #8 on: 14 December 2014, 00:08:01 »
I like these articles normally skip over them but these make the ProtoMechs more accessible and interesting nicely done

Thanks a ton, Dragon Cat! That means a lot to me, especially since ProtoMechs inspire a lot less discussion than other units. It's nice to see that some people are getting some use of these.
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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #9 on: 14 December 2014, 01:32:59 »
I have to say, this article has really turned me around on the Siren; I was still a little iffy on it even after your article on Proto tactics that talked it up, but now that you've gotten into the nuts-and-bolts of how to use it specifically, it looks a lot more appealing. I used to be of the opinion that any Proto that was lighter than the Roc was a waste of time, but using the Siren as you've suggested looks like it'd be quite effective.


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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #10 on: 14 December 2014, 02:03:43 »
I too have been turned on to the Siren thanks to your article. I hate its looks and have always been iffy on the super low armor but this article, combined with your tactics thesis, inspired me enough that I got past my dislike and even went out to pick up the pack of Sirens that I knew had been sitting at the back of my local shops rack for ages.

Before your articles the smallest Proto I could get myself to use was a Satyr.
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GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #11 on: 14 December 2014, 12:40:35 »
I have to say, this article has really turned me around on the Siren; I was still a little iffy on it even after your article on Proto tactics that talked it up, but now that you've gotten into the nuts-and-bolts of how to use it specifically, it looks a lot more appealing. I used to be of the opinion that any Proto that was lighter than the Roc was a waste of time, but using the Siren as you've suggested looks like it'd be quite effective.

Glad to hear it!! I actually get the most utility out of ProtoMechs *under* the Roc's tonnage, so that's pretty funny. Some of the heavyweights can be hard to turn down, though...the Delphyne 2 is probably one of my favorite Protos ever.

I too have been turned on to the Siren thanks to your article. I hate its looks and have always been iffy on the super low armor but this article, combined with your tactics thesis, inspired me enough that I got past my dislike and even went out to pick up the pack of Sirens that I knew had been sitting at the back of my local shops rack for ages.

Before your articles the smallest Proto I could get myself to use was a Satyr.

Woah, that's awesome!! I'll be getting a new wave of Protos sometime soon myself, writing these articles has made me want to whip up a new force including them. And I know that I've got to be an outlier here, but...I, uh...I like how the Siren looks.

I can understand liking the Satyr. The Siren might be the ultimate Proto for maneuver warfare, but Satyrs are my go-to support ProtoMech for nearly any situation.
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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #12 on: 15 December 2014, 12:49:46 »
I have to say, this article has really turned me around on the Siren; I was still a little iffy on it even after your article on Proto tactics that talked it up, but now that you've gotten into the nuts-and-bolts of how to use it specifically, it looks a lot more appealing. I used to be of the opinion that any Proto that was lighter than the Roc was a waste of time, but using the Siren as you've suggested looks like it'd be quite effective.

You're missing out, then. The Satyr is another good one to try out when you get the chance, and the Hydra isn't too shabby either.

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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #13 on: 08 April 2016, 21:39:34 »
Someone who knows more about Protomechs than me: How bad is the Cecerops 5 in TRO 3150?
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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #14 on: 08 April 2016, 23:02:54 »
Someone who knows more about Protomechs than me: How bad is the Cecerops 5 in TRO 3150?
We don't know for sure b/c record sheets haven't been released and the description isn't enough to design it for sure. We know it has Proto Clamps, an AP Gauss, and it lost most of its speed. I'd say that translates from a 9/14 speed to a 4/6 speed, but it's only a guess. How much ammo it has dictates the rest of the design changes.
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Re: ProtoMechs of the Week: 3-ton Special
« Reply #15 on: 09 April 2016, 05:59:17 »
I'll have to math things out when I get back from work tonight, but chances are it'll be one of the cheapest effective Anti-Infantry units in the game. Its mobility should still be enough to strafe basically all infantry, while the AP Gauss's range is large enough to outrange most infantry weapons. A point of these will like be cheap as hell, while giving a Raven Star a bit more ablative armor and heavy A-I firepower for a low amount of BV.

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