Author Topic: Intelligence report – Clan Jade Falcon file 861/H – Thunderbolt IIC.  (Read 8160 times)

marauder648

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Initial assessment and background

The Thunderbolt IIC follows the grand Clan tradition of using older Inner Sphere Mech’s usually found in storage in Brian Caches, relics from the Exodus and Star League, refitted with modern technology before being given to Garrison and Solahma Clusters and formations.  Only that’s not exactly true.  The Thunderbolt IIC is not a reconditioned several hundred year old relics rearmed with Clan weaponry but it is a rather different beast entirely.

What it is instead is an entirely new machine, built at the Olivetti Weaponry factory that fell into Clan Jade Falcon’s claws and started entering service in 3085.  Whereas most IIC variants are often just a weapons swap and upgrade, with structural changes often resulting in a lighter or indeed heavier machine the Thunderbolt IIC gains an added 5 tonnes of weight and seems to almost be a technology demonstrator and test bed when it was first introduced.

The beating heart of the Thunderbolt IIC is a Redline 350XL Engine that is also used on the older Summoner and Hellbringer Mech’s and indeed the engine comes from stockpiles of surplus engines for these older machines.  As does the communications and targeting systems.  Either the Clan was simply overburdened with these systems after salvaging them or the production facilities have built so many that they can be employed elsewhere.  This is still being investigated. 

This powerful and reliable engine gives the Thunderbolt IIC a 5/8 movement curve with a full sprint at 86kph, allowing it to keep up with the standard Clan Heavy Mech’s although it cannot jump.

We do know that the internal skeleton and armour are of standard design, using no advanced compounds although the ammunition bay for its LRM launcher is protected by the highly effective CASE II system which also helps increase the survivability of the Mech with its somewhat vulnerable engine (although still less vulnerable than an Inner Sphere XL engine.) The standard armour plate, 13.5 tonnes of it gives the Thunderbolt IIC almost full protection and allows the machine to endure quite a pounding.

The cooling system is quite comprehensive 17 double strength heat sinks though still work hard to keep the machine cool due to its armament.

For long range firepower the Thunderbolt IIC has  an impressive array of very modern weapons.  For long range firepower a classic LRM launcher in the traditional position on the right Torso is employed although this missile launcher is the new and advanced Type XV-S Streak LRM-15 launcher which draws from a 2 tonne ammo bin.

The machine’s main punch comes from yet more very modern weapons in the form of a pair of Series XVI-a Improved Heavy lasers.  Firing these weapons as a pair will overwhelm the heatsinks but not significantly and whilst short ranged for a Clan weapon they pack a truly formidable punch for weapons their size. Also both weapons are arm mounted giving them the widest possible firing arcs.  The focusing arrays and laser assembly is also seemingly retractable allowing the Thunderbolt IIC to use its hands, always useful in garrison roles.

(You’ll be 2 over with heat if you don’t factor in movement.)

For extra firepower that has the same reach as the Heavy Lasers the Thunderbolt IIC also features a trio of the classic 7Ja ER Medium Lasers nestled in the right torso.  Of course firing all the lasers together would seriously overheat the Mech but it would also deliver a blast capable of causing tremendous damage to anything hit by the volley

Curiously for a Garrison Mech the machine does not feature anything in the way of anti-personnel weaponry and is seemingly designed purely to take on and destroy hostile Mech’s or battle armour with its laser and missile armament either leaving the role of dealing with lesser troops to other Mech’s or infantry forces.

Evaluation

The Thunderbolt IIC is a rather curious machine for its designation. In essence a completely new design that is replete with cutting edge weaponry as well as reliable and tried and true systems.  A machine this capable would be taken with arms wide open by any front line Inner Sphere Regiment or Command and the Falcons are producing them in large numbers to fill gaps in their Garrison forces as well as front line Clusters (although not the mainline ones). 

Heavily armed, fast and well protected the Thunderbolt IIC is a formidable machine and should not be underestimated, if possible salvage should be obtained so we can study the Streak LRM and improved heavy lasers without them firing upon us. 

Because the machine is so new there has thus far been only one variant constructed and it seems to be a more generalist machine than the IIC.  The Thunderbolt IIC 2 is built with greater endurance both in the field and in terms of durability in mind.

Slower at 64kph but fitted with a quartet of Grand Lift Jump jets the added weight meant that a pair of heatsinks had to be sacrificed bringing it down to 15 double strength ones.  The gyro is also replaced with a heavy duty one whilst 11 tonnes of ferro fibrous armour provide more than ample protection. The robust J-D 067 Comms system and Hawkeye 58 TTS are also joined by a Clan made ECM unit which can disrupt C3 and some targeting systems.

The armament of the IIC 2 is quite different, an advanced ER Large Pulse laser forms the Mech’s primary heavy punch as well as its long range armament and this is mounted in the right arm.  At shorter ranges a standard Heavy Large Laser sits in the place of the missile launcher whilst a trio of medium pulse lasers sit in the place of the ER Mediums of the standard model.  A small pulse laser rests in the left arm and rounds out the armament giving it a modicum of anti-infantry firepower.

It is theorised that this variant is actually the dedicated Garrison machine, its standard, cheap engine, the mobility of jump jets and all energy armament point to an easy to maintain machine that needs minimal logistical support save for the ER large pulse laser.  This could then free up the standard model for use with frontline forces but this is still being investigated.

Report from - Agent REDACTED





Any thoughts or comments are most welcome.
« Last Edit: 25 January 2015, 09:58:39 by marauder648 »
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Thank you for the article! The Thunderbolt IIC has a gorgeous art...every time I see the miniature I want to cry. About the design, it is featured in TRO:Protoypes and it brings nice toys to the battlefield. The Improved Heavy Large Lasers are good weapons but there are a lot of better options. The Streak LRM15 is just plain evil. It is an easy to use mech, just firing one iHML, the medium lasers and the Streak  and you can throw a lot of firepower to the enemy. However, despite the looks, the not so great weapons and having  the Summoner as contender in the same weight category have marked it as an average clan heavy mech.
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Empyrus

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One nitpick and one mistake i see:
Many IICs are total rebuilds and/or redesigns, not merely refits, if i recall correctly, so the Thunderbolt IIC is not really that different from other IICs. They may keep the concept but still be rather different than their predecessors as well, and the T-Bolt IIC doesn't seem to be that different in this regard.
The Hellbringers do not use Redline 350XL engine, being 65 tonners, only the Thors do.

I like the original Thunderbolt. A very solid machine, the kind of generalist i like (my own custom upgrade in Mechwarrior Online was a joy to pilot).
This... Eh, it does retain certain qualities of the original but isn't really what i like, i think. Runs rather hot at worst, an unfortunate thing retained from the original. It also lacks the sheer versatility of the original. For the Clans, i guess it is adequate for their internal conflicts (medium lasers against battle armor, the missiles for fire support, the iHLLs to deal with mechs) but it is missing something.
The variant is closer to the original... or at least the SE series. And it also lacks the missiles, unfortunately, the same thing i do not like about many of the T-Bolt SEs.

I don't even like how the Thunderbolt IIC looks. David White's art is pretty great usually but this is kind of meh. Looks like the Thunderbolt for sure but... man, seeing T-Bolt IIC art in vein of the now unseen classic IIC art would be nice.

All my customization attempts were kind of failures (trying to find an useful balance of fun, classic T-Bolt and modern effectiveness), i decided that i'd rather just use a Thor/Thor II (much simpler than building a new mech anyway) and try to approximate the originals weapon loadout. Sure, the Thor lacks the toughness of this or the original T-Bolt but it does have considerably better mobility.
EDIT Dropping one iHLL for a short range missile launcher and small pulse lasers or flamers or AP Gausses for anti-infantry work might be nice. But again, i could just pod-mount this stuff to the Summoner.
« Last Edit: 25 January 2015, 14:39:35 by Empyrus »

glitterboy2098

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actually all IIC's are new builds, just inspired by IS designs.

the refits to clan specs are the "C" models of IS mechs. thus a Marauder "C" is a MAD-3R fitted with clan LPL's and Ultra AC5, but is otherwise original IS tech.
while a Marauder IIC is an 85ton clan designed and produced assault mech with superior materials and weaponry, all clan spec.

Empyrus

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The Highlander IIC seems to have begun its life as mere a mere Clan-tech refit. The Highlander IIC's chassis is "Modified Star League XT" (the original has "Star League XT") and is described as the original having its weapons upgraded until the modern Highlander IIC emerged, but perhaps it is an exception.
I would not be surprised if most of the IIC designs began their life as C-refits, perhaps even with heavy structural tweaks, and later being refined to actual IICs.
(The existing C variants seem to be all from the Clan Invasion of '50, captured IS mechs refitted with Clan tech, or captured factories pressed to construct Clan-upgraded versions, rather than early Clan upgrades.)

I am surprised that many classic mechs the SLDF brought with them to the Exodus never got a Clan-spec successor but perhaps the arrival of the Omnimech kind of disrupted the production of IICs?

The Thunderbolt is a good example of a missing IIC version, even though it served even the SLDF Royals, at least until this thing was cobbled together.

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(The existing C variants seem to be all from the Clan Invasion of '50, captured IS mechs refitted with Clan tech, or captured factories pressed to construct Clan-upgraded versions, rather than early Clan upgrades.)

I am surprised that many classic mechs the SLDF brought with them to the Exodus never got a Clan-spec successor but perhaps the arrival of the Omnimech kind of disrupted the production of IICs?

The Thunderbolt is a good example of a missing IIC version, even though it served even the SLDF Royals, at least until this thing was cobbled together.

There are several Cs. The Op Revival captures. Early Clan 'Mechs like the Imp got C variants in the Homeworlds. Select SLDF units like the Tomahawk(ASF) and Champion got C variants. And Clan production of vehicles like the Demolisher and Maxim were Cs.

The Thunderbolt got IICed long ago. It's called the Summoner.

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Nice take on the article as an intelligence brief instead of talking about it
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Empyrus

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I disregarded the Imp and its ilk, they're early-Clan designed and produced mechs unique to them despite their tech base, C variants or no.
I did not notice the Champion C though. The only Cs i remember were from '50s (the Rifleman, Victor, etc.).

Anyway... I do not regard the Summoner as the Thunderbolt IIC. The influence is undoubtedly there, but something it screams "not-Thunderbolt".
Though it seems i'm saying the same about the actual Thunderbolt IIC, so perhaps i simply do not see the Clans getting the Thunderbolt... but then a solid generalist trooper is seemingly somewhat alien to the Clans, given Zellbrigen and their other oddities. IMO.


I was going to say something about the Thunderbolt and whether it is outdated after the Jihad but decided not to, but this did make me wonder if the Thunderbolt IIC is still being produced in the Dark Age?
Given how it is based on the original Summoner and Hellbringer parts, and those two designs having superb successors, i'm thinking the originals, and thus the Thunderbolt IIC as well, are no longer in production.

Colt Ward

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Dueling has sort of gone away by 3145 and I would absolutely disagree about generalist machines, it what they put in the garrison units after all.

My biggest gripe with the TBolt IIC is it put something explosive in the arms that takes a little while to get into range- against cERLL mechs, 10 hex difference, GR- 7, ERPPC- 8, and LRMs its 6 . . . against assaults not a big deal.  But against mechs with the same movement profile?  I would much rather have cERLL.

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Empyrus

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I did say i ended up not saying what i was going to say about the trooper types and whether they're outdated or not.
I started thinking about combined arms warfare, how it leads to specialized units (so, no troopers)... and then i started thinking that a generalist is actually a good unit in such environment because it can fight against so many types. Not to mention stuff like convention infantry being apparently relatively common in the Dark Age (despite proliferation of battle armor), so having some anti-infantry capability is not a bad idea along with everything else.
Of course, things are not that simple ever.

The T-Bolt IIC is a bit odd as a second line unit. Marauder's musings about it being a tech test-bed are justified, i think. Sure, the thing has good killing power due to its at time still new weapon systems... but it lacks range, and mobility to compensate for that lack of range. Strip a couple of ERMLs and stuff a supercharger in there. Still a test-bed, perhaps even more so, but now it can close in better to exploit its firepower.

The T-Bolt IIC 2 makes more sense a garrison unit, especially for rough and urban terrain. Runs hot easily but it has options depending on the enemy type, and it has something against just about every unit type AND good endurance.
Still, it doesn't quite grasp the original T-Bolt in my mind.

Wrangler

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I like the utility of Thunderbolt IIC's origin, being built from spare parts for other production machines in the Jade Falcon's Occupation Zone.    I've yet to really use the T-Bolt IIC in fight, but i see potential in it's utility, specially using those Streak LRMs.
If a player using it is smart, they won't shutdown in combat.  Using the 2nd I-Heavy Large Laser as back up encase you lose one of your arms.   CASE II, should least keep the mech together well enough to bring it back from the battlefield given how rare mechs will end up being in later decades.
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Colt Ward

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Yeah, but after both IHLL explode because the arms get stripped will the pilot still be awake enough to retreat?  Honestly, it is sort of weird in that regard in that you are begging to get a side torso damaged to blow the arm off so the IHLL does not crit when you start taking lots of damage.
Colt Ward
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marauder648

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Thank ye for the comments folks! I feared this was gonna slip off without a single one :p
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The T-Bolt IIC is a very decent machine, makes me wish the Wolves kept making Orion IIC

Just wish the mini was a little better.
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Colt Ward

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My wish for the Orion IIC 2 was the same as getting a Atlas IIC, give it ATMs rather than LRM/SRM racks.

The part that got weird with that is one went with Katya into the Republic . . . and is now in merc hands with the Steel Wolves falling apart.
Colt Ward
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GreekFire

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Thank ye for the comments folks! I feared this was gonna slip off without a single one :p

Ahh, the eternal fear of many a XotW writer..
Well done! An interesting writeup on a unit that I've never taken for a spin. For some reason I thought it was slower than it actually is...definitely makes it more intriguing now that I've digested that little tidbit of info.

It certainly follows the Jade Falcon trend of that era of putting all of their experimental 'tech on secondline machines. I mean, they had the Locust IIC 9, the Eyrie, the Flamberge, the Rifleman C 2, etc. Those secondline warriors were testing out literally every piece of advanced 'tech for the Clan, and the Thud IIC was no exception.
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Well, they could start making Orion C  if they wanted to.  They have access to Free Worlds League factories least produce the Orion or it's designs to produce it.  Thunderbolt IIC started out as spare parts of OmniMechs in production.  Why not do the same?
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master arminas

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Dear lord, how I hate Heavy Lasers . . . let me count the ways.  :)

Never mind, we haven't the time or band-width.  As to the art . . . I love it.  The 'Mech itself?  Meh.  Too much 'new toy syndrome' with the S-LRM-15 and iHLLs.  For the same tonnage, same speed, same engine, same standard structure and armor, you could instead have gotten an ER Large Laser, three ER Medium Lasers, an LRM-15 with Artemis IV (and three tons of ammo), two AP Gauss Rifles with a ton of ammo (who makes that?  right, the Falcons), an ECM Suite, AND a two-ton Targeting Computer for the Lasers and APGs.  Plus 18 DHS, which (curiously enough) cools the exact maximum heat of this weapon configuration . . . 36 for 36. 

To me, that screams Thunderbolt more than a pair of head-cappers in a machine that par-boils the Warrior!

MA

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Neutral heat is for sissies with that warload you are mentioning.  It just needed to swap iHLL for cERLL to be superior even with all the experimental stuff.

And . . . 17 or 18 DHS?  Sarna says 17 . . .
Colt Ward
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Jellico

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Well, they could start making Orion C  if they wanted to.  They have access to Free Worlds League factories least produce the Orion or it's designs to produce it.  Thunderbolt IIC started out as spare parts of OmniMechs in production.  Why not do the same?


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P28
W-7 Facilities
Quote
Guillotine IIC, Highlander IIC, and Orion IIC BattleMech refits;

Many of the poorer Clans in the 80s were refitting IS chassis. Eg CNC Union, Overlord and Sai, RA Titans.
Just be aware it is not always the case. Eg Shadowhawk IIC or Urbanmech IIC refits ususaly refer to updating Clan 'Mechs.

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Who needs to go to the FWL?

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P28
W-7 Facilities
Looking it up on Sarna,  the Weingarten facility apparently makes everything from Orion IICs to Night Wolfs to Mad Cats... is that last one right?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/W-7_Facilities#cite_note-O:TCp28-4

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The standard Timberwolf Omnis would be the hand built ones?  Not likely anything was left for that enterprise . . .

The Orion IIC is a bit puzzling because sources were saying both sides were not producing the machine, taking it as detente between the two parts of Wolf.

Pretty solid selection, question is . . . what did the Falcons pick up?
Colt Ward
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Ghost_msl

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regarding the art - I really wish that bottom torso laser would be up next to the other two, it kinda offends my sense of tidiness.

Terrace

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The Orion IIC is a bit puzzling because sources were saying both sides were not producing the machine, taking it as detente between the two parts of Wolf.

Wolf: Ok, fine. You can have the factory. But if you produce any of that design, we will come in to stomp on you.

Wolf-in-Exile: And we'll help! Maybe we can't destroy you, but we'll drag as many of you down with us as we can, and how will you defend yourselves from everyone else?

marauder648

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regarding the art - I really wish that bottom torso laser would be up next to the other two, it kinda offends my sense of tidiness.

Its the Falcons they did it to spite the OCD.
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Jellico

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The standard Timberwolf Omnis would be the hand built ones?  Not likely anything was left for that enterprise . . .

The Orion IIC is a bit puzzling because sources were saying both sides were not producing the machine, taking it as detente between the two parts of Wolf.

Pretty solid selection, question is . . . what did the Falcons pick up?
They are not producing it. They take aquired IS Orions and refit them. Likewise Highlanders and Guillotines.
Actually they probably stop doing that once they have enough modern production.

The only thing the Falcons got from the Wolves was Arcturus Arms.

Wrangler

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They are not producing it. They take aquired IS Orions and refit them. Likewise Highlanders and Guillotines.
Actually they probably stop doing that once they have enough modern production.
Won't that make those Orions C variants, not IIC?  As far I know, we've not had a actual C variant for the Orion. They were all new builds of the IIC design.
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If they totally referb them like turning Marauders into Marauder IIs then they'd be a IIC instead of just a C.
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So they'd be exactly like the IICs they made in Clan space?  That would be nice.
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Colt Ward

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Now I am trying to remember the source where it said neither side was making the Orion IIC- Crusader Wolves were apparently by choice and it was supposed the Wardens were doing it as a diplomatic gesture.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."