(Second) ProtoMech of the Week: Hobgoblin

[GreekFire]

From The Wars of Reaving

Writer's Note: I know I'm putting this out rather quickly after my last write-up on the Triton, but my school is completely shut down due to student strikes and I've got a wealth of free time. Writing these up gives me something somewhat productive to do with my free time, so enjoy!

I can’t believe that I’m saying this, but this week we’ll be looking at a Third Generation ProtoMech. Proto generations are a fairly straight-forward thing. For the first, we had those developed in secrecy by the Jaguar Scientists. These were followed by the batch designed by a multitude of different Clans; this second generation largely followed in the footsteps of their predecessors, bringing very little actual innovation to the battlefield. The true ProtoMech renaissance arrived with the third generation, the era where they took off and greatly tested the limits of their potential. Of course, this was all made possible through the hard work of rogue members of the scientist cabal, but them be the dice.

All innovation has to start somewhere, and in the Society’s case, it was with the Hobgoblin. The Society's first rebellious steps were taken with the Erinyes and (presumably) the Centaur 4, but the envelope was truly pushed with the arrival of the Hobgoblin. It shattered previous weight limits set by the Minotaur and Delphyne, rocking town at a hefty 10 tons. And as if wasn’t enough, it became a testbed for two other pieces of experimental technology: the Magnetic Clamp System and the Fusillade. But this Hobgoblin, at least as it was, was never supposed to enter production. This was a prototypal machine, through and through. Unfortunately, ilKhan Andrews and his Reaving calls pushed the Society timetable ahead of plan, and the Hobgoblin was forced into fullscale production. And as it stands, some of the surviving Homeworlders might still be making use of it in a post-Reaving environment; whether this would done by interest or simple necessity is up for debate.

Code: [Select]

HOBGOBLIN
INTRO: 3072
FACTIONS: The Society
WEAPONS: AP Gauss Rifle (40 shots), Fusillade, Magnetic Clamps

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (7)                    (3)      Arms -> Cored: 39 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 48 pts
      (6 / 20 \ 6)           (3 / 10 \ 3) Torso -> Cored: 30 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 18 pts
        (  12  )               (  6  )
         MG (4)                 MG (2)


Examining the Hobgoblin presents us with a bundle of inefficiencies. Its cockpit weighs a full 250 kg more than it would on a 9-ton design, while the MagClamps themselves cost an additional 500 kg. This results in a 10-ton ProtoMech that only truly has an additional 150 kg to spend on its design, rather than the typical 900 kg increase that each one-ton increment usually yields. The choice made here is a smart one; all of the additional weight goes straight towards increasing the Hobgoblin’s protection up to 2.75 tons of its hyper-efficient armor - something that would otherwise be impossible on a lighter chassis.

I don’t do this much nowadays, but I’m going to dwell upon the armor a bit. The differences between a 9 and 10-tonner are pretty substantial. Every location gets a one-point internal structure boost, and max armor jumps from 45 up to 57. Every location can tank a lot more damage if maxed out. And in the Hobgoblin’s case, it has 55 points, only two points shy of the max. The layout means it can:

• Take an ER Medium hit to the head without having it go internal.
• Take an AC/20 round to the torso without it going internal.
• Take an ER Medium hit to the arms without losing them.
• Take a Gauss Slug to the legs without losing them.

These are all thresholds that a 9-tonner can't achieve - an impressive increase in durability for the Hobgoblin. The Main Gun is probably the location that improves the most with a weight-jump, going from 3 to 6 points of maximum protection. The Hobgoblin doesn’t take full advantage of this, but this hardly hampers it. Why? Because of the main gun it carries.

See, the main drawback of the Hobgoblin is its anemic weaponry. It carries a total of 3000 kgs of firepower, truly low when you consider that the Delphyne has the same tonnage devoted to guns, and even the lighter Gorgon and Triton outgun it. This could be worked around through intelligent weapons choices, but we don’t quite get them here. An AP Gauss Rifle starts things off solid, but a whopping 40(!!) rounds is serious overkill and demands a horrifying ton of free weight to carry. This leaves 1500 kg to spend on the Fusillade, a two-shot weapon system that goes completely against the APGs ammo load. It’s carried in the Main Gun, giving it 360 degree coverage, so at least you’ll be able to land those shots on whoever you want, whenever you want.

Which brings us to our next point. In order to get the most out of the Hobgoblin, you have to get the most out of its Fusillade. I’ll start off by firmly arguing against using any of the standard ammo loads. ER missiles aren’t worth it if you only have two shots, while Standard missiles are outperformed by your normal LRMs. That leaves HE missiles, and while they have a nice damage profile, SRMs offer roughly the same damage output and more munition flexibility. Most of the time, you'll want to pass on them. That leaves us with the two newest munitions: IIW and IMP. Improved Inferno Warheads do have a solid use; they’ll let you engage and damage enemy ProtoMechs and Battle Armor before many of them are able to bring their weapons to bear. I’d consider them to be an “anti-conventional” option, and one that you should avoid using against ‘Mechs. If you’re playing as the Society, you’ll have plenty of (better) options to overheat them with. Improved Magnetic Pulse Warheads do some rather interesting effects as well, and that’s why it’s my number one choice. I’d use them in the completely opposite way as IIWs - against Mechs and Vehicles only. They’re a good ambush weapon, slowing down and hampering return fire to give friendlies (eg: Basilisk-Qs) an easier time of taking them down. It’s important to note that the MP and accuracy penalties *stack* with those imposed by heat-causing weapons. Combining a few Fusillade shots with a blistering array of Plasma Cannons or Infernos can literally stop an Assault ‘Mech in its tracks.

So in the end, we have a unit that acts as a very sturdy force-modifier, and one that’s easily shipped around the battlefield. Using them as command units isn’t a bad idea, although another idea (for once they’re done shooting those Fusillades) is simply using them as ablative armor for your Omnis. You won’t get much more out of them, unless you really need the AP Gauss or initiative sink. If you haven't done so already, you might want to read this excellent article by wantec that discusses MagClamps in more detail over here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomech-of-the-week-supplemental-protomech-magnetic-clamp-system/

Code: [Select]

HOBGOBLIN 2
INTRO: 3072
FACTIONS: The Society
WEAPONS: AP Gauss Rifle x4 (20 shots), Magnetic Clamps

         ARMOR                 INTERNAL   
          (7)                    (3)      Arms -> Cored: 39 pts
          / \                    / \      Legs -> Cored: 46 pts
      (6 / 20 \ 6)           (3 / 10 \ 3) Torso -> Cored: 30 pts
         | | |                  | | |     Legs -> Destroyed: 16 pts
        (  10  )               (  6  )


The Hobgoblin 2 takes the standard model and runs it towards a pure combat role - only to trip at the final step. Replacing the Fusillade with three more AP Gauss Rifles is a huge increase in damage potential, albeit one that could largely be achieved through the  use of individual SRM tubes (Orc? Did you call?). But that’s really not worth complaining about, not with the amount of AI damage it can put out. No, the problem is the low ammo count for its guns. 20 total shots gives it the same endurance as that old Orc, but on a unit that’s more than two times tougher.

Fielding one of these is a race against running out of ammo - you’re basically hoping your opponent targets it so it isn't relegated to wandering around aimlessly later on. Playing them extremely aggressively works the best (the harder they are to ignore, the better), so don’t put any commanders in this ride.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Using both of these ProtoMechs can be very interesting. The standard model is great as part of a larger Trey; three of them have a good chance of landing at least 3 Fusillade missiles on any individual target (the sweet spot for IIW and IMP shenanigans). They also work well as command Uns for lighter ProtoMech Treys or Septs. As low-priority/high armor units, they’ll be able to act as solid anchors for lighter Procyon/Centaur/Roc Z Uns. That's as far as I'm going to go for now - there'll be a dedicated Society ProtoMech article later down the road that'll examine potential teams in more detail.

It’ll be a bit longer before we see if the Hobgoblin survives the passage of time. The Fusillade is a noted experimental weapon, one that could improve in leaps and bounds (both in and out-of-universe), while the base chassis could stand some reworking. But I can say that I for one enjoyed the appearance of this very good looking - if suboptimal - Super-Elemental.

MASTERUNITLIST: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=hobgoblin
No Iron Wind Metal figure exists for it yet, and as such no CamoSpecs examples are available either.

[Maelwys]

Its an interesting testbed.  The armor changes and thresholds prove that the Ultraheavy class is a valid concept, something that they might not have concluded based on just the firepower.

Shame the 2 is still 800kg underweight after all this time.

[Dragon Cat]

I liked using this unit the first time I did but after that found it lacking would be nice to see more configurations

[Wrangler]

Really interesting test bed for certain, one best looking of the War of Reaving's ProtoMechs!  I forgot about the new ammo rounds the Fusillade carries, i sort stupidly dismiss the weapon since it's a two shot wonder.

Thinking about it, in the post-Reaving Clans, is Hobgoblins are retained in service.  Instead of a 3 unit Trey, they'll be in typical 5-point ProtoMech formation.   I don't know how intermixed a star ProtoMechs would be, it be interesting see a full Star of Hobgobins used against Battle Armor points.   

[Natasha Kerensky]

It's worth noting that the standard Hobgoblin shows up on the Hell's Horses MUL.  Unclear if that represents a few prototypes smuggled out of the Clan Homeworlds or some reverse-engineered level of production in the Inner Sphere.  Hopefully the IMP warheads come with them in either case.

It's also worth noting that Horses' superheavy Svartalfa and the magclamps on their Minotaur P2 are descended from the Hob.

Good proto article as usual.

[Dragon Cat]

Thinking about it, in the post-Reaving Clans, is Hobgoblins are retained in service.  Instead of a 3 unit Trey, they'll be in typical 5-point ProtoMech formation.   I don't know how intermixed a star ProtoMechs would be, it be interesting see a full Star of Hobgobins used against Battle Armor points.

The inferno rounds would rip non fire resistant BA units to pieces

[GreekFire]

Thinking about it, in the post-Reaving Clans, is Hobgoblins are retained in service.  Instead of a 3 unit Trey, they'll be in typical 5-point ProtoMech formation.   I don't know how intermixed a star ProtoMechs would be, it be interesting see a full Star of Hobgobins used against Battle Armor points.

Yeah...if they can be fielded in full points, then they work decently. A couple can miss while still giving the point a chance of reaching a good 6-missile threshold for the specialty munitions - but that's if the Homeworlders use stuff like IWP at all. I'm not too sure they would. But at that stage, standard HE munitions start getting interesting again.

It's worth noting that the standard Hobgoblin shows up on the Hell's Horses MUL.  Unclear if that represents a few prototypes smuggled out of the Clan Homeworlds or some reverse-engineered level of production in the Inner Sphere.  Hopefully the IMP warheads come with them in either case.

It's also worth noting that Horses' superheavy Svartalfa and the magclamps on their Minotaur P2 are descended from the Hob.

Very true, I forgot about it appearing on the 3085 RAT and MUL. It drops off the RAT by 3145, so I think it's safe to say that these were captured and/or salvaged copies taken from the Society.

[Wrangler]

GreekFire, have you covered basics about the Superheavy ProtoMechs yet?  They are game changer, your article here touchs on some of things.  Do you think you'll do something more on them?

[wantec]

Also, Wars of Reaving says that the Hobgoblin was primarily developed by the Jade Falcon branch of the Society. That makes it much more likely to have been salvaged that way by the Horses.

[cold1]

It proved the concept would work.  That in itself is a great accomplishment.
That it spawned the Sprite and Svar-horsey-whats'it is worth noting.  It's the Coyotl of its unit type.

Now if we could just see what the next step is in ultra heavy proto development... <insert standard Cold1 more homeworld clans sentiment>

CGL dudes, GreekFire is out of toys to write about.  Give him some new ones, or hell better yet give him a call about making some new ones. (Yeah I know no unsolicited designs etc but he's got it figured out)

[mbear]

GreekFire, your display of the Hobgoblin 2 says it's 800kg underweight. Is there any reason you couldn't add another 500kg of ammo for the AP Gauss Rifles? (I'm not familiar enough with Proto construction to know.)

[Prince of Darkness]

And here I was, about to message you about doing the Hobgoblin...

GreekFire, your display of the Hobgoblin 2 says it's 800kg underweight. Is there any reason you couldn't add another 500kg of ammo for the AP Gauss Rifles? (I'm not familiar enough with Proto construction to know.)

Not at all. You could easily add another ~16 shots or so, but you would still run into the problem of "Why not just use SRMs"?

[Paul]

Ah, the hobbo. Always under-appreciated when you have some clawpombing chaos dwarves around, but who's the first to get Sure Hands, huh? Now you care about AG3?

Oh, the ProtoMech.

As with all Society ProtoMechs, Herb made the base versions of the Hobgoblin, Boggart and Sprite, I made the variants. You'll note where the errors are... (Still not sure how I goofed up, but let's at least be clear about the guilty culprit)

The Hobbo was intended as a disposable prototype. In that light, the original's ammo load makes sense. Prototype work has a lot of repetitiveness to it, having to stop to reload is suboptimal.

The variant I made was supposed to cover the 'last minute refit' as the prototypes were rushed to real combat. The Fusillade was discarded given it's inefficiency, and one of the better weapons to mount was to replace it. Not sure how I mucked up the weight, but I'd likely add more guns with the remaining mass. (At a glance of the rules, I get the impression 1 more could be added)

5 rounds of fire is adequate in my view, and once the ammo runs dry, you withdraw the ProtoMech. The Society built their units with the implicit use of retreat among their strategy. Partially because they felt this gave them an advantage over the Warriors, largely because they lacked the industrial ability to get in to a war of attrition.
Of course, by the time they had to deploy Hobbos, they were all too often on the defensive...
Still, since I apparently still have 300 kg after adding a 5th APGR, I'd sink that in to ammo.

Paul

[GreekFire]

GreekFire, have you covered basics about the Superheavy ProtoMechs yet?  They are game changer, your article here touchs on some of things.  Do you think you'll do something more on them?

Ermm...not really, I guess. I'll add a paragraph or two when I'll talk about the Society ones.

CGL dudes, GreekFire is out of toys to write about.  Give him some new ones, or hell better yet give him a call about making some new ones. (Yeah I know no unsolicited designs etc but he's got it figured out)

Not quite!! Still got the Boggart, Svartalfa and Hippogriff to look forward to!

And here I was, about to message you about doing the Hobgoblin...

Ahh, damn...do you want to do one of the other remaining ones?

5 rounds of fire is adequate in my view, and once the ammo runs dry, you withdraw the ProtoMech. The Society built their units with the implicit use of retreat among their strategy. Partially because they felt this gave them an advantage over the Warriors, largely because they lacked the industrial ability to get in to a war of attrition.

I guess it does work well in the context of many other Society weapons that have a time limit. You've got Fusillades with two shots, EDP armor has effects that last three rounds, Mobile HPGs that hamper targets for 6 turns...I just wish it had enough ammo to last through its armor if need be. Your proposed change alone, which would increase the number of shots up to 6.4 turns' worth...which makes a bigger difference than it seems.

[glitterboy2098]

interestingly, Greekfire lamented that the society didn't use the PMCS magclamps to make a 'protomech elemental'..

well, i think the Hobgoblin is as close as they got. aside from the lack of jump jets it's got everything elementals have.. an arm mounted weapon that does anti-infantry AND anti-vehicle/mech capability with enough ammo to last the length of a typical engagement, a two shot missile weapon for greater antivehicle work, and enough armor that it's opponents end up going "why won't you just DIE!" on a regular basis.

though it's mass and relative lack of mobility means deployment is trickier.


personally though.. i love the art of this proto. the lack of "fantasy" styling is a nice element.. i never minded much in the 1st generation of proto's because those weren't too different from the stylized full sized mechs we have around.. they were still obviously minimechs, just made to look fancy. the 2nd gen put me off due to how they looked more like monsters than machines, with all that pointless cosmetic work.
the Hobgoblin is delightfully mini-mechy. (to be honest, in my minds eye this is how i see all the Society versions of the 1st and 2nd gen designs as well.. very hobgoblin-eque without the 'monster' cosmetic elements)

[Prince of Darkness]

Not quite!! Still got the Boggart, Svartalfa and Hippogriff to look forward to!

Ahh, damn...do you want to do one of the other remaining ones?

I PM'd ya.

[GreekFire]

interestingly, Greekfire lamented that the society didn't use the PMCS magclamps to make a 'protomech elemental'..

well, i think the Hobgoblin is as close as they got. aside from the lack of jump jets it's got everything elementals have.. an arm mounted weapon that does anti-infantry AND anti-vehicle/mech capability with enough ammo to last the length of a typical engagement, a two shot missile weapon for greater antivehicle work, and enough armor that it's opponents end up going "why won't you just DIE!" on a regular basis.

I know, I know, I seem to be contradicting myself. The Hobgoblin really is a beefy Elementalish unit...it's just too big for what I'm looking for. I would have loved a 3-ton ProtoMech (from my rough calculations, something passable could have been possible at that weight) - double them up and a 60-ton standard 'Mech could carry them into combat penalty-free. Hell, a 25-tonner would be able to carry two of them for that -3 MP penalty, and...you know what? I'll just post something in the fan design forum.

[glitterboy2098]

thinking on the Hobgoblin's shortcomings.. if you dropped the fusillade for a conventional missile system (perhaps a LRM?) would that improve things?

and in terms of canon loadouts.. i suspect an inferno loadout would make the Hobgoblin a fairly effective anti-BA unit. treating it like a bodyguard might be a good way to use it.

[GreekFire]

thinking on the Hobgoblin's shortcomings.. if you dropped the fusillade for a conventional missile system (perhaps a LRM?) would that improve things?

It'd certainly change things up. 1500 kg to spend on a weapon and ammo means you could spring for an LRM-6 with 6 shots, or an LRM-5 with 12. 

and in terms of canon loadouts.. i suspect an inferno loadout would make the Hobgoblin a fairly effective anti-BA unit. treating it like a bodyguard might be a good way to use it.

Yep, it's those IIWs can be pretty rough on BA - if you're massing them. The added range when compared to most BA weapons (with ranges 5 and 10 being huge sweet spots) can really help you take them out if you're lucky.

[UnLimiTeD]

CGL dudes, GreekFire is out of toys to write about.  Give him some new ones,

Maybe we'll see a Republic Design as soon as they finally fully figure out the Machina Domini System?
I want a Protomech with MMLs. With a BA inside.  }:)

[GreekFire]

Maybe we'll see a Republic Design as soon as they finally fully figure out the Machina Domini System?
I want a Protomech with MMLs. With a BA inside.  }:)

Inner Sphere ProtoMechs? I can imagine the nerd rage now...

[UnLimiTeD]

Well no, not quite.
The Republic has access to both Clan Technicians and WoB Caches, including plenty of knowledge on their DNI system, the epitome of which having already been reviewed by sillybrit.
It's the only faction I expect to be capable of that feat, considering there's something to be said for pilot longevity.
Oh, and Protomech Tasers.

Somewhat back to topic, maybe have a topic about how to best beat protos?
Especially the heavier one's seem like they need an inordinate amount of attention, should they deserve it.
I already grasped that they don't like infernos, but I'm not so sure about Plasma, AOE, Minefields, EMPs... Can a Mech kick their Head off?

[GreekFire]

Hmm, could have sworn I covered that stuff, but checking back on the articles I wrote it doesn't look like it.

There are three key ways to slaughter ProtoMechs, and you mentioned two of them:

1-External heat. It takes three infernos to automatically destroy a ProtoMech location. That means that you get a 16/36 chance to automatically kill any ProtoMech out there if you land those missiles. That's huge. Plasma weapons dish out a lot of damage but don't get that autokill chance, while Inferno Arrow IVs are positively brutal against packed ProtoMech formations. If you've got two Arrow launchers shooting at a star of ProtoMechs...things are gonna get messy. It gets even worse when you remember that those Inferno fires won't go out for the entire scenario. That's basically the reason why we need heat-resistant armor for Protos now that Superheavies have appeared, but that's another story...

2-Minefields. A Mech can shrug off that little 5-point minefield. A ProtoMech can't. At all. Ground-based ProtoMechs are much more threatened by mines than nearly any other unit type. The only bright side to this is that in a canon, Homeworld Clan on Homeworld Clan game, you won't encounter Thunder-Augmented. Same goes for the Horses (well, most likely, at least).

3-Pulseboats. They suck. Rifleman IICs are the bane of my existence. Obviously, 1/2 or 2/3 pilots can also be a bit of a hassle, but at that point my own gunnery upgrades and larger force balance things out a bit. But pulse lasers? They throw the equation out of whack. They can be dealt with, but you have to quickly decide what is and isn't expendable when doing so.

Artillery isn't that bad, but becomes exponentially worse the more ProtoMechs you fields. EMPs...I dunno. Never faced many EMP effects. The IWP munition for the Hobgoblin isn't worth it (IMO) against them, at least. Physical attacks against Protos can work, but kicking always has an inherent risk to it. And trust me, you don't want to end up on your ass when a bunch of ProtoMechs are riding you down.

So yeah, Protos have a lot of big weaknesses - but they usually require your opponent to leave his comfort zone and go for some alternate options that he wouldn't otherwise take. That's why I'm a strict believer in using ProtoMechs alongside Mechs and/or Vees; you have to have something a bit more durable in case your opponent is prepared.

[glitterboy2098]

Maybe we'll see a Republic Design as soon as they finally fully figure out the Machina Domini System?
I want a Protomech with MMLs. With a BA inside.  }:)

well, ultraheavy Proto's like the hobgoblin already use a PAL suit like interface in addition to the EI. (think Pacific rim without the dual drift)
and we know the the WoB managed to make DNI replace the EI..

[Fallen_Raven]

To expand on GreekFire's counter Proto tactics, here's some things from my experience.

1) External heat sources are bad for everything (except Heat resistant BA). But Infernos require you to get closer than good sense might advise considering the speed an/or close range firepower that Protos usually have. Coupled with their group nature means you aren't looking at clean kills. On the other had, you can clear up a swarm of Minotaurs faster than you would chewing through the armor. You just have to decide how much you're willing to risk for it.

2) Minefields do nasty things to Protos, especially when you're missing legs. The fact that a Protomech can stump around with leg damage that would TKO a 'mech means you can walk into a 20 point field and take most of it to the torso. Not a fun experience.

3) Pulse lasers mess up Protos like they do anything that relies on speed. Its like being in a Savannah Master, but often with less firepower and speed.

4) Artillery is only as effective against Protos as they make it. If you find a point dug into some woods, you can thrash them easily. If you try to hit Sirens that are dashing across an open field, you're gonna have a bad time. This is one case where I feel artillery is clearly overrated.

5) Bring a command unit. The initiative bonus can help to counter numerical disadvantage. More importantly, it helps you avoid being pinned in or surrounded. If a Point can't use their pack tactics, they lose their biggest advantage.

6) Use the big guns. Its easier to rip a location off a Protomech than it is against a Battlemech or vehicle. So crit seeking is often less viable than total destruction.

[JPArbiter]

I know it is not the most combat effective proto out ther. But gods, does it look AWESOME!

[Maingunnery]

CGL dudes, GreekFire is out of toys to write about.

Boggart.  ;)

The variant I made was supposed to cover the 'last minute refit' as the prototypes were rushed to real combat. The Fusillade was discarded given it's inefficiency, and one of the better weapons to mount was to replace it. Not sure how I mucked up the weight, but I'd likely add more guns with the remaining mass. (At a glance of the rules, I get the impression 1 more could be added)

Well if the ammo and armor were kept the same, then the weight would have worked out. And that would fit better with 'last minute refit'.

[wantec]

Boggart.  ;)

GreekFire, did you do an article on the Roc? If so can someone link me to it, cause I don't remember reading that one.

[GreekFire]

GreekFire, did you do an article on the Roc? If so can someone link me to it, cause I don't remember reading that one.

Erm..thing is, it's already been covered here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/protomech-of-the-month-the-roc/

I was OK with redoing the Basilisk since there were three new variants that had appeared, but re-doing the Roc kind of feels like it'd be a faux pas.
I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

[wantec]

I saw that one. I wasnt sure if you were gonna give it your own take on it