Author Topic: VotW: Cizin  (Read 9304 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Cizin
« on: 17 May 2015, 15:56:40 »


Requests. You've got 'em, I'm accepting 'em. GET IT DONE, SOLDIER.

I want to take a moment to thank those of you who took part in the recent VotW special report on WiGEs- the enthusiasm was appreciated (with the exception of the one PMer who asked that in the future I not waste his time on niche units. Noted and ignored.) With the reaction in mind, there will be more specials like this down the road- I can't tell you when, because honestly I have no idea, but if you have ideas for such articles please let me know via PM and I'll give them consideration for sure. It's your column, folks- I just put it all in words. ;)

So, mild spoiler- if you're not up on what's been going on in the 3145 era, you'll be shocked to find out that Clan Nova Cat is no more. If you're like me, you're amazed it took that long for the Combine to get tired of the proverbial weirdo crashing on the couch, but that's for another article. Regardless, the Cats are no more, their warriors decimated and their civilians castrated- within a few decades, nothing will remain of one of Kerensky's Clans but pictures in history books... and a lot of salvaged/traded gear they've built over the years. Among these is a handy little hovertank called the Cizin. Worth taking a look at, wouldn't you agree? (We will either way, so you might as well just get on board with the plan)

The Cizin shares a number of obvious features with another Clan hovercraft, the famous Epona. Where that beast was an Omnitank, however (the first to be published), the Cizin is a conventional unit- intended to operate in combined-arms units, the likes of which we see more and more from the Clans in the post-Jihad era, the Cizin is a master harasser. With the destruction of the Clan that spawned it, the Cizin- named for the Mayan god of death, in a continuation of the Clan love of naming vehicles for deities- is now produced by Luthien Armor Works- it also is built by Clan Sea Fox, because of course it is- the result of a trade many years ago between the two ex-Clans.

At 45 tons, the Cizin fits nicely in a light vehicle bay, as most hovers do. We find a 215 XL engine pushing this cart around at a lovely 10/15 movement curve, which means Cizins are able to happily exploit the flanks of an enemy, while also having the ability to scoot away quickly if trouble arises. This is no doubt a handy thing for the DCMS- upon discovering Davion heavy units, Cizins can simply sneak away before the FedSuns force can react- and if any units end up as stragglers, the Cizin is excellent at isolating and dealing with them. (Pro tip: Pair up Cizins with SM1 Tank Destroyers for an impressive one-two punch at high speeds!)

We've been here before- you don't kill a hovercraft by blasting it apart, you kill it with motive/crit hits. But that's not to say a hover can't be tough anyway- the Cizin packs seven tons of Clan ferro-fibrous armor onto its sleek frame, giving our old Kali Yama a pretty tough test! Two solid hits won't break the 45 points up front, while the flanks hold out a shot thanks to their 25 points. The turret's 21 points holds... barely. The rear has a mere 18 points however, and with the 'fight or flee' nature of a hovertank like this the author wouldn't mind moving a few points from the front to the rear, just in case. Still, this is not an easy tank to beat apart, particularly when one considers the movement modifiers to hit one in the first place. The Cizin, then, becomes an angry terrier- it won't stop coming after you until either it drops or you do.

The teeth on that terrier are to be respected (as my pants leg will attest). Four Clan ER medium lasers are parked in two pairs in the turret. Now, this is a weapon that the Inner Sphere has been subjected to for nearly a century now, its capabilities are a known quantity. But... flat out, the Cizin is packing the equivalent of four large lasers in a turret, moving about at high speeds. That's pretty impressive stuff, period. The heat sinks in the engine are boosted by ten more, which is a whole mess of weight, but the results are a tank that can sting even a heavy Mech with a barrage of lasers from behind and cause major problems. Even if one misses you still force a PSR on your target. The targeting computer assisting those lasers means those shots won't miss often- well played, Cats! A pair of standard SRM-2s sit forward on the vehicle on each side of the large cockpit, sharing a ton of ammo for extra crit-seeking power or inferno barrages, whichever you prefer. Note that the four lasers backed by four SRM tubes is again reminiscent of the Epona Prime.

If it sounds like there's a lot of respect from the author for the Cizin, it's because after a week of testing, this has become the author's new favorite way to make someone miserable with a hovercraft. Cizins backed by a few SM-1s were a joy to use, taking down all manner of targets with ease. So when I mention that the standard Cizin ranks second of the two versions in terms of love from the author... that should say something. The long-range warfare model strips out all of the weapons, replacing the four ER mediums with a single ER large laser. This gives the Cizin a fantastic ranged weapon to snipe at targets with, well away from return fire ranges- and the computer remains to help it out. The removal of the SRMs and eight heat sinks free up room for a new Streak LRM-15 rack, with two tons of ammo. The use of these weapons together should be obvious- don't get close, hang back and cause mayhem from afar. The author found a couple of points of each type of Cizin backed by one point of SM-1s was sick, wrong, and hilarious. How did the Cats get wiped out with this kind of gear in their forces? An ECM suite rounds out this variant nicely.

Fantastic hovercraft here- fast, tougher than expected, well-armed (both versions)... and coming to a FedSuns invasion front near you.
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #1 on: 17 May 2015, 18:44:45 »
A Good unit, fast effective and devastating if you use them right.  Not sure about the second variant, but i've not gotten to use it.

Thanks for write up, Mr. JadeHellbringer!
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cavingjan

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #2 on: 17 May 2015, 19:01:28 »
Good, effective, and looks fabulous.

Empyrus

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #3 on: 17 May 2015, 19:07:49 »
Good, effective, and looks fabulous.
But not very realistic... but that is not uncommon with WizKids hovercrafts. They're more like typical anti-gravity hovercrafts from many other scifi works, not like real hovercraft (many older BT hovercraft do look more realistic).
But i'll forgive them for this, because their hovercraft do look good for most part.

I suspect a friend of mine would like to play with this... Speed and firepower, in a good package.

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #4 on: 17 May 2015, 19:22:30 »
An interesting variant would have been 2 ER Mediums and LB10 or Ultra 10 and some ammo would have been equally nasty.

For the two standards they are fun little Hovertanks
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #5 on: 17 May 2015, 20:18:49 »
This is flat-out one of the best tanks in game, in both variants. The ranged variant in particular is a truly terrifying harasser, capable of kiting opponents to death pretty much singlehandedly. Honestly, between this and the Sekhmet, the DCMS made out like bandits in the wake of the Cats' destruction.


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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #6 on: 17 May 2015, 20:25:56 »
For Alpha Strike, this thing is FRIGHTENING - it moves 20"h (TMM+4, so even at short range it's 8+ to hit!), has A/S 4/3, and the two variants have 4/4 and 3/3/3 damage - hard say which is better, but I'd say the Support variant with 3/3/3. Can you call a 3-point hit at Long range harassment?

And oh my, that miniature is beautiful.

I... want a few. If they were Omni and could hold Elementals, I'd hardly give a second glance to my Fire Moths.

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #7 on: 17 May 2015, 20:28:12 »
But not very realistic... but that is not uncommon with WizKids hovercrafts. They're more like typical anti-gravity hovercrafts from many other scifi works, not like real hovercraft (many older BT hovercraft do look more realistic).
But i'll forgive them for this, because their hovercraft do look good for most part.

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Maelwys

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #8 on: 17 May 2015, 21:18:19 »
Its not too surprising that these are so well accepted. They're basically Clantech versions of the Drillson and Condor (the Liao variant) hovertanks. The Cizin is just faster, better armored and hits like there are two of the original designs.

What's to dislike?

Except for maybe some of the quirks...

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #9 on: 17 May 2015, 21:28:05 »
That's twice the Cats took something I LOVE, copied it somewhat and didn't mess it up!  They effectively ripped off the intellectual property for the Epona and the Night Gyr.  Good work Cats!

I've never used these but as a lover of the Epona, they might be a good one to try out!


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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #10 on: 17 May 2015, 21:41:19 »
Nice piece of kit.  You know what would be even more terrifying, though?  A quartet of MPLs.  That would be sick and wrong.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #11 on: 17 May 2015, 21:49:27 »
Nice piece of kit.  You know what would be even more terrifying, though?  A quartet of MPLs.  That would be sick and wrong.

No argument, but that's the Epona basically. To upgrade here... well, now hold on actually, now that I'm thinking about it... you get to drop a couple of heat sinks, and if you drop the SRMs that's the other two tons you were missing... it's doable. That said, the computer is already giving me a -1 to hit, with better range than the pulses would give me- I'm good with that tradeoff here. It's doable as a configuration, for sure.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #12 on: 17 May 2015, 21:54:54 »
You actually drop 4 heat sinks, exactly matching the 4 tons in weaponry you gain, the only trouble is the TC weight (we may be talking past each other here).  It does become a leaner, meaner, cheaper Epona copy if you do that though.  In and of itself there's nothing wrong with that, especially if the Cats can't build the Epona, but OOC it's been done before, this is a little more distinct.
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #13 on: 17 May 2015, 22:05:22 »
Good unit, but I'm a little irritated someone would get on you for 'wasting time on niche vehicles'. I thought that WiGE article was great.

Anyways, I'd say the Cizin sounds like a really annoying-but awesome-unit. I've never been one for hovers, but if I used them more, this'd be the one I want. I'm dreading the day I face one, so I'm probably just going to kill it the way you should always try to kill hovers. I do enjoy the unit's small SRM packs more than I ussually do, but that's because I would likely put smoke, inferno, or mine clearing munitions in them instead of using them solely as weaponry. Or I'd just get mean and stupid and use harpoon ammo, but then, I do that with a lot of SRM units.

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #14 on: 18 May 2015, 02:42:18 »
Neat vehicle.
One minor nitpick:
The whole "Writing something - then something else - and also -more interspersed info- stuff" ??? makes it a bit hard for me to form a fitting pronunciation in my mind.
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #15 on: 18 May 2015, 07:01:12 »
You actually drop 4 heat sinks, exactly matching the 4 tons in weaponry you gain, the only trouble is the TC weight (we may be talking past each other here).  It does become a leaner, meaner, cheaper Epona copy if you do that though.  In and of itself there's nothing wrong with that, especially if the Cats can't build the Epona, but OOC it's been done before, this is a little more distinct.
There's also the turret weight to consider. It may only be a .5 ton difference, but that'll need to come from somewhere.

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #16 on: 18 May 2015, 09:19:57 »
Good point.
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #17 on: 18 May 2015, 14:49:26 »
Just realized something, won't the Cizin cost alot to build and upkeep due to the Clan tech?

Aside from game mechanics that allow vehicles, specially hovercraft get pillar boxed fairly quick, it would make it an expensive asset have crippled by a stray shot.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #18 on: 18 May 2015, 15:20:58 »
Just realized something, won't the Cizin cost alot to build and upkeep due to the Clan tech?

Aside from game mechanics that allow vehicles, specially hovercraft get pillar boxed fairly quick, it would make it an expensive asset have crippled by a stray shot.

Well, funny thing about that. LAW literally disassembled, analyzed, and then built a copy of the Irece factory for the Cizin. So they have the ability to build Cizins themselves- and it stands to reason then that they can maintain them as well. One would think that if you can copy the factory so you can build them, maintaining them becomes a little easier in the field as well. This isn't 3055, trying to figure out how to get a captured Clan Vulture to work right- you built it, you understand the secrets to its manufacture. It might not be AS easy as something more vanilla like a Maxim, but it shouldn't be overly difficult either- perhaps easier even than other Clantech vehicles as a result.
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Maelwys

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #19 on: 18 May 2015, 15:39:25 »
If this was 3050 then yeah, that might be a concern. By 3145, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Scimitar/Saladin/Saracen Mk IIs are also 10/15 hovertanks. The Cizin can work as a lance commander for the smaller designs...or if you're in the FedSuns and really unlucky, you might mistake the signs of a lance of Cizins for a lance of Scimitars until its too late.

Its kind of a shame and odd that LAW had to dismantle the original factory. By 3145 they should have the expertise to build a Clantech line without having to dismantle something first to get an idea of how it works.

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #20 on: 18 May 2015, 16:44:18 »
Its kind of a shame and odd that LAW had to dismantle the original factory. By 3145 they should have the expertise to build a Clantech line without having to dismantle something first to get an idea of how it works.
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #21 on: 18 May 2015, 18:09:01 »
Yes and no. For the longest time they didn't have to do their own homework, just let the weird kid have his lunch money back once he does it for you.

I love this analogy. I love it so much.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #22 on: 18 May 2015, 22:24:09 »
Pretty high BV costed unit, but it looks effective.  I just ran two against the bot in a Sea Fox Aggressive Negotiations star (Tiburon, Grendel B, Arctic Wolf II, uh, LPL config, Fire Falcon E) against a bunch of randomly rolled dark age Feddies (clan tech black knight and Rifleman Iic 8 being highlights)  Of course, first turn of massed fire one Cizin gets hit on a 9 or 10 and is immobilized.  Second turn of serious fighting (aka right after the one got immobilized) I fail a control roll with the second and skid into trees and am immobilized.  Yay my dice.  I managed to win in the end but it wasn't pretty.

Just sucks putting that much BV into something that I'm going to blow a simple roll of 4 on  :-\

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #23 on: 19 May 2015, 18:38:55 »
I love this little beast. It's fast, it's perrilous, it hits hard and there's the allways hillarious risk of accidentally killing yourself. It also looks really cool as well. I'm a big fan of the MWDA Nova Cat design ethic with their curved platforms and art-deco "Cat head" canopy covers (And I still hope to see the MWDA style Shadow Cat bought to TRO form some day), and the Cizin shows how it can be adapted to a non-'Mech platform.

I use it a lot in my Jade Falcon vee stars. It gives you the advantage of not using a Falcon-built tank, so yay for that. I've found that it partners well with the Sekhmet (Funny that) and the TC means it can get competent perofrmance form even standard clan Vee crews.

I almost allways load infernos into the SRMs myself. It's a good way to make yourself "loved"
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #24 on: 19 May 2015, 18:43:54 »
I almost allways load infernos into the SRMs myself. It's a good way to make yourself "loved"

I load it with tandem-charge, because I'm a dick.


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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #25 on: 19 May 2015, 23:36:59 »
I'm having this hilarious (at least to me) mental image of LAW engineers looking at the Cizin's aesthetics and going "...but will it WiGE?"
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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #26 on: 20 May 2015, 07:27:24 »
TO be fair, Clantech for a while was basically looking at a Ouji board and hoping for the best. With LAW's hands on the manual for the Ouji board, they could at least screw with their friends.  O0

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #27 on: 20 May 2015, 09:28:19 »
I load it with tandem-charge, because I'm a dick.

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #28 on: 20 May 2015, 21:56:52 »
TO be fair, Clantech for a while was basically looking at a Ouji board and hoping for the best. With LAW's hands on the manual for the Ouji board, they could at least screw with their friends.  O0

I think the fluff was that the Successor States had figured out how Clantech worked and could make copies pre-Jihad...

By hand, in the lab.  And costing ten times the Clan cost to make it at a minimum.  The issue was the Sphere didn't have the industry set up to produce the required components.  An extreme analogy it was the difference between being able to pick up a box of bolts at the hardware store (the Clans) vs having to turn each bolt out of bar stock on a lathe (the Sphere).

So the Sphere went with Star League tech, where they had the manuals and spent over a decade bringing their tech up to reproduce that.  Which they could turn out a whole company of mechs for the cost of a single Clan Copy mech.  Quantity has a quality all it's own.

The time required for everyone to rebuild after the Jihad brought time for upgrading their military suppliers.  And since they had to rebuild large chunks of it anyway, they used the higher Clantech standards.
« Last Edit: 20 May 2015, 23:58:45 by Nikas_Zekeval »

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Re: VotW: Cizin
« Reply #29 on: 20 May 2015, 22:53:14 »
I think the fluff was that the Successor States had figured out how Clantech worked and could make copies...

By hand, in the lab.  And costing ten times the Clan cost to make it at a minimum.  The issue was the Sphere didn't have the industry set up to produce the required components.  An extreme analogy it was the difference between being able to pick up a box of bolts at the hardware store (the Clans) vs having to turn each bolt out of bar stock on a lathe (the Sphere).

So the Sphere went with Star League tech, where they had the manuals and spent over a decade bringing their tech up to reproduce that.  Which they could turn out a whole company of mechs for the cost of a single Clan Copy mech.  Quantity has a quality all it's own.

The time required for everyone to rebuild after the Jihad brought time for upgrading their military suppliers.  And since they had to rebuild large chunks of it anyway, they used the higher Clantech standards.

and to be fair, in 3050 a lot of their infrastructure was still succession wars vintage. star league level tech could be built with that. clantech though couldn't. so they needed time to rebuild and revamp their fundamental technological infrastructure (mining, refining, circuit board making, etc) up to support more advanced technology production before they could move past star league style tech and onto clantech.

that was also one of the reasons it took awhile to get clantech weapons and mechs being produced in the OZ's.. sure if you have a mech factory you could retool it to make clan mechs, but you'd basically be importing all the advanced parts (Xl engines, clan weapons, endo, ferro, clan DHS etc) from the homeworlds to do it.. to make it all with parts made in the OZ's you'd have to upgrade, rebuild ,and lay down infrastructure to match clan specs.
« Last Edit: 20 May 2015, 22:57:17 by glitterboy2098 »

 

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