Author Topic: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II  (Read 10123 times)

sillybrit

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Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« on: 03 July 2015, 15:58:11 »
Tortoise II Battle Armor - Experimental Technical Readout Republic II page 17

Brent Evan's original concept art used for MF Germany's Tortoise

A zombie from Walking Dead or a damaged Tortoise II, you be the judge!


     The Tortoise II from Experimental Technical Readout Republic II is without a doubt the weirdest and creepiest looking battle armor in the game. The first art available was merely odd, but Plog has produced an outstandingly disturbing design that matches the equally disturbing stats.

     The Tortoise II was actually one of the last designs to be added to the original Republic II layout, and remained there after the restructuring that led to Republic III being added to the lineup. The suggested theme for the Tortoise II was simple: the most disgustingly munchy mixed tech assault quad possible - the actual words used when pitched. jymset added the request that the design matched artwork originally produced by Brent Evans that he'd graciously allowed to be used for the Tortoise, a Mechforce Germany design produced by jymset. That resulted in the original suggestions for the Tortoise II being tweaked, which was probably a good thing as they were described as broken, and not in the dysfunctional way. The outcome was the Tortoise II.

     First off, I'd like to make very clear that the Tortoise II is purely a quad battlesuit, its rear wheels notwithstanding. Unique among battle armor, the wheels are nothing more than a cosmetic feature inspired by Brent's original art. It isn't a foreshadowing of a new unit type of non-legged "battle armor", nor does the suit enjoy any advantages or suffer any penalties in the standard rules. Technically the Hard to Pilot and Prototype negative quirks represent the problems integrating the rear wheels into the design, but those were voluntarily chosen and weren't mandated. Rounding out the negative quirks, the Difficult to Maintain represents the outré design and the cutting edge mix of technology.

     Now that the issue of the wheels are out of the way, let's move on to the actual stats themselves. Although toned down from the first suggestions, the Tortoise II is still truly broken in my opinion, possessing what I believe to be the worst aspects of mixed technology. Although the issue has been discussed before, and will undoubtedly be discussed again, I'll briefly cover the salient points here. Clan battlesuit technology on the whole is either superior for the same mass, or possesses the same capability for less mass. The key exception is the Clan chassis, which masses 27% to 62% heavier than its Inner Sphere equivalent due to the inclusion of a Harjel system, which only provides advantages in niche optional rules. Suits with a Clan chassis are also superior missile platforms, but even this provides no advantage for some designs. This situation was fine when mixed tech designs were rare, but in the 3145 era mixed tech is no longer experimental and we've already had the first canon, production mixed tech units, ranging from battle suits to ’Mechs.

     Mixed tech battlesuits until now have still been somewhat conservative, with most either combining Inner Sphere armor and chassis with good Clan weapons, or Clan armor and Inner Sphere chassis and weaponry with a smattering of poor Clan Weapons. The Tortoise II smashes those self-imposed limits. Sure, it might not handle a suit breach in a toxic environment as well as a Golem, but seriously just how often are rules like that actually used?

    Exploiting an Inner Sphere chassis saves the Tortoise II a hefty 150kg, which is almost half the suit's armor mass. Using a Clan chassis, the Tortoise II would have just been a sluggish Clan Fenrir instead of the scary monster we see apparently crawling out of a grave to eat our brains. What armor the suit does possess might not be that strong by assault standards, but it's enough to eat an AC/10 hit and keep ticking, plus the superb stealthiness may prevent many shots from landing in the first place.

    That stealthiness is needed, because the Tortoise II isn't going to win any prizes for speed and agility. Not a single gram was spent to enhance the mobility and thanks to the use of a detached weapon pack, what ground speed the suit does possess is reduced to the level of mere foot infantry.

    So the Tortoise II has serviceable armor and no mobility, which means that the mass went into the third side of the triangle: firepower. Even after installing a good sized modular turret to allow multiple armament options, we still have 1000 kg devoted to making things go ouch and boom. As noted above, the Tortoise II also uses a detached weapon pack for what is its heaviest weapon system, so the suit actual carries what is effectively 1200 kg of armament. And that includes a lot of the top quality Clan goodies, with none of the Bearhunter nonsense seen on the Oni.

    At the core of the suit's firepower is an ER Medium Pulse Laser, the same weapon used on the Cuchulainn and obtained on license from the Arc-Royal MechWorks. This alone is enough to establish the Tortoise II as a serious threat, with a squad able to inflict an average of twenty-one points of damage per turn before even considering the modular armament. MechWarriors take note: you do not want to be the focus of a Tortoise II squad at close range!

    The rest of the weaponry is installed in the modular turret, allowing the Tortoise II to tailor the pain it will inflict. A number of other configurations were suggested in addition to those that appeared in Republic II, but they had to be cut due to space issues and other concerns. One of the earliest suggestions that didn't make it to publication was a LB-X configuration, while another mounted twin APGRs. Alternative SRM setups were also discussed and disgarded, mostly due to the desire to match the original 3-tube artwork.

    jymset: Even though we were happily celebrating a broken monster, in the end, it was my guilty conscience that got the better of me. In addition, I didn't want to impeach upon the LB-X armament of the Thunderbird II, which was already in the XTRO line up. I already felt dirty about duplicating the BA C3, which was meant to be the Tbird II's unique selling point.

    Three of the four canon configurations exploit the awesome potential of Clan missile systems, which are much lighter than their Inner Sphere counterparts, thus allowing extra tubes and/or more ammunition. The first configuration was intended to match the three-tube launcher seen in the original concept art, and given the mass and slots available this dictated the use of an Advanced SRM launcher. Although unable to fire alternative munitions, the extra range and deep magazine are decent compensation, with a suit potentially likely to be destroyed before it runs out of missiles. Able to add an average of sixteen points of damage per turn scattered across eight hits, this provides the Tortoise II with a useful crit seeking capability, plus the ammo capacity to freely take shots without worrying too much about misses.

    The real beast configuration doubles the number of missile tubes while downgrading to standard SRMs. This does allow the use of Infernos, but the low number of shots might be a deterrent to mixing and matching the load out. While the missiles last, the Tortoise II can inflict a stupidly high amount of damage, with an average of no less than fifteen SRM hits for a full squad. That means that if a squad splits its fire it could potentially force two Mechs to make a piloting check, or it could curb stomp a single target with more than a half century of damage! Oh my. If Infernos are used and launched against infantry, an average salvo could fry an entire Point of battle armor or forty-five PBIs, if such a large platoon were permissible.

    As we'd already used two of the three available Clantech missile types, it would be a shame not to use the third and we wouldn't want to disappoint. A quad array of LRM tubes almost matches the long-range firepower of the Hauberk, with marginally greater ammunition endurance and no minimum range arguably making the Tortoise II a superior fire support machine. As noted in the fluff, the standard SRM and LRM configurations share the Clantech technology with the Lyran's Fenrir II, but just where the Republic sourced the Advanced SRMs is currently not revealed.

    The last configuration is entirely Inner Sphere, although the damage-dealing parts were originally inspired by Clan developments. A pair of LMGs is hardly inspiring when compared to the previous weapon options, but in combination they do provide token mid-ranged anti-personnel firepower, enough to potentially kill a platoon in two turns. The LMGs are only secondary to the main feature of this configuration: a C3 module. As I discussed in the Thunderbird II article, I'm not really convinced by battle armor with C3, although gun-heavy suits like the Tortoise II and Thunderbird II are better implementations than abominations like the Kage C. At least the Tortoise II's ER Medium Pulse Laser has a decent range, making it easier to exploit targeting data supplied by other members of the C3 network.

    Overall, the Tortoise II is best suited for killing other armored targets. Killing PBIs can be left to supporting units, freeing the Tortoise II to do what it does so well thanks to its incredible amount of firepower. That firepower combined with the freakish appearance gave the suit the Distracting quirk, which inflicts morale penalties on opponents if you use both the morale and quirk optional rules. As positive quirks go it's not much of one, but does the Tortoise II really need a boost I have to ask.

    The current status of the Tortoise II is unknown. At the time of the Remnant's report, the suit was still a prototype that had only just passed its first field trial, with the design suffering from unresolved flaws. I find myself torn between what fate I'd prefer: on the one hand, I love its looks so much that I want it to stick around as a regular unit of the RAF, but on the other hand, I dislike that purely Clan suits can be outperformed by mixed tech suits and would prefer that designs like the Tortoise II remain prototypes or otherwise unique. Pandora's Box has been opened and mixed technology escaped out into the world, so it may be a case of having to endure the inevitable.




« Last Edit: 03 July 2015, 16:18:41 by sillybrit »

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #1 on: 03 July 2015, 16:10:52 »
Maybe I'm a hater but it stands to reason to me that the Clan technological edge can't be maintained over a population with far more of every resource than the Clans have.

The game should ultimately dispense with the tech dichotomy... and things like this are exactly the sorts of things we should see on the way there.

Empyrus

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #2 on: 03 July 2015, 16:28:28 »
Disgusting.
And that is on multiple levels.
The unit looks disgusting. Terrific art from Plog as usual but man, the unit is ugly. Reminds me of the Pinkies from Doom, you know the pink pig demons? Specifically the Doom 3 incarnation with its mechanical rear*.
And the stats. Disgusting. Munchkin... blargh. Frankly, i detest the detachable weapon pack for various reasons... and combining it with IS chassis and Clan-tech weapons? Even more disgusting. No doubt it is good, in its specific niche at least (it does lack mobility and armor after all).
Oh and it is a quad. Disgusting.
And it is by Tthe Republic. Also disgusting (no sirs, i don't like that faction really).

BTW, the write-up is not disgusting. Very interesting to read about this disgusting terrific unit.

I'm not convinced this the best, most munchy Battle Armor there could be. But a good attempt probably.
Something like an Elemental BA with IS chassis and Clan Fire-Resistant Armor probably better, at least as a generalist Battle Armor. Hrmm, gotta got to brainstorm one...


I think the Clan/IS tech distinction will done away with at some point, pretty sure it has been implied everyone will have access to advanced tech sooner or later and the timeline will go on.
But in some cases, i think it will need rules revisions. HarJel is rather useful stuff in-universe and i find it difficult to believe everyone would ignore it in favor of other stuff. Of course, the stuff is blasted limited and everyone wanting it is more or less reliant on the Sharkfoxes...
I really don't think munchy stuff is the way to go about doing away with tech-base distinctions.
But given that this is an experimental prototype unit, i reckon it won't be the standard way. So i don't worry.


*EDIT
Actually, the Doom movie version is even closer...
« Last Edit: 03 July 2015, 16:30:41 by Empyrus »

Phobos

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #3 on: 03 July 2015, 17:27:48 »
but just where the Republic sourced the Advanced SRMs is currently not revealed.


Well, it's the Republic, silly. Rule of thumb: If anyone else got it, they gots to have it too! ;) With all that fancy tech and access to most stuff around, I always wondered how they were beat into the dirt in the first place.

As for the unit itself, I kind of like it. Pretty minmaxed, but there are enough canon units already that aren't.
« Last Edit: 03 July 2015, 17:29:52 by Phobos »

SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #4 on: 03 July 2015, 17:42:27 »
Now detachable weapon packs are limited to one weapon or piece of equipment, right? Which is why the BC3 version is underweight

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #5 on: 03 July 2015, 17:59:35 »
Well, you could install multiple :P
I mean, IC wise.
I absolutely love how offbeat this unit looks. Hot damn, I didn't expect this.
I don't even mind the munchyness, it's a republic experimental design.
The production version might use a lesser laser, or IS missiles.
Neat article.
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jymset

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #6 on: 03 July 2015, 18:33:12 »
I'm not convinced this the best, most munchy Battle Armor there could be. But a good attempt probably.
Something like an Elemental BA with IS chassis and Clan Fire-Resistant Armor probably better, at least as a generalist Battle Armor. Hrmm, gotta got to brainstorm one...

The 3145 Oni would cater to your needs! O0 Of course, we nerfed that, too:

...the Bearhunter nonsense seen on the Oni.

Loved your disgusting reply! ;)

Now detachable weapon packs are limited to one weapon or piece of equipment, right? Which is why the BC3 version is underweight

??? the Tortoise's DWP is completely separate from its MTM. The latter can hold 400 kg. BC3 = 250 kg, dual LMG = 150 kg, so... ???

Of course, BA don't even really use the concepts of "underweight", what with the weight classes merely noting a maximum that can be filled with equipment of various flavors. I wouldn't call the MG Elemental "underweight" per se, even though it technically wastes 10% of its mass.
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SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #7 on: 03 July 2015, 19:01:31 »
That means that the DWP then is empty on the last config?

Empyrus

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #8 on: 03 July 2015, 19:02:50 »
I'm grading the Oni higher in ugliness than the Tortoise II. The latter is ugly in a good way (but still ugly). The former is just ugly ugly.
Reason enough not to like it. (And it doesn't jump!)
(The Kishi on the other hand is beautiful.)


By the way, is the ER MPL a good upgrade for Battle Armor mounted MPL? You lose a bit of accuracy for a bit more range... for mechs, i've seen people regard ER Pulses as generally meh if not bad weapons. But Battle Armor don't have to worry about the extra heat...
I'd imagine the extra accuracy of the normal Clan Medium Pulse Laser is more munchy.


You know, looking at the art, Evans' original concept art for the Tortoise II is demonic, more so than the final art by Plog. The smaller wheels give it more lithe, agile appearance.
I find it kinda interesting the art(s, either the final or concept) wasn't used for a fast, powerful and terrifying infighter.
And i think it would have suite the Manei Domini rather well, with some tweaks (namely, more villainous spikes perhaps), especially as an terrible infighter.

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #9 on: 03 July 2015, 19:09:29 »
Oh and it is a quad. Disgusting.

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I salute you!

I just realized that I forgot to include my traditional disdain for quads, but I'm glad to see that other sensible chaps are ready to carry the flag forward.

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #10 on: 03 July 2015, 19:12:04 »
That means that the DWP then is empty on the last config?

You are aware that a MTM can carry multiple items up to its slot capacity and the available mass? Is that perhaps the problem you're having?

The turret has 5 slot capacity and the suit has 400kg spare after all the fixed equipment. As jymset has already pointed out, a 250kg BA C3 and a pair of 75 kg LMGs adds up to 400kg, with only 3 of the 5 slots used.

Empyrus

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #11 on: 03 July 2015, 19:24:43 »
You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I salute you!

I just realized that I forgot to include my traditional disdain for quads, but I'm glad to see that other sensible chaps are ready to carry the flag forward.
I have to say it was an afterthought. I had written most of my post when i realized i was looking at a quad design, hence "oh and...". :)

I think this is one unit where i forgive it being a quad. Mostly because it looks interesting.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #12 on: 03 July 2015, 20:05:49 »
Well, it only moves on two legs.
... Maybe it is to allow the Republic to use war invalids in a combat scenario?
Might actually make piloting this thing easier.  ;D
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #13 on: 03 July 2015, 21:13:23 »

As formidable as a squad's firepower may be, the Tortoise II artwork reminded me of pet wheelchairs.


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SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #14 on: 04 July 2015, 00:52:32 »
You are aware that a MTM can carry multiple items up to its slot capacity and the available mass? Is that perhaps the problem you're having?

The turret has 5 slot capacity and the suit has 400kg spare after all the fixed equipment. As jymset has already pointed out, a 250kg BA C3 and a pair of 75 kg LMGs adds up to 400kg, with only 3 of the 5 slots used.
Sorry, got confused and thought that missile were in the DWP for some reason

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #15 on: 04 July 2015, 03:26:22 »
As formidable as a squad's firepower may be, the Tortoise II artwork reminded me of pet wheelchairs.



Yes, but pet wheelchairs serve a purpose, the wheels on this thing. . . if they actually functioned it would be a more interesting hybrid than QuadVees to me.

Beyond that I'm with everyone calling Pinky from Doom on this one.

Empyrus

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #16 on: 04 July 2015, 07:00:19 »
Beyond that I'm with everyone calling Pinky from Doom on this one.
Everyone being me at the moment. Well, you and me now.

I must be crazy but i kinda want to see a QuadMech with wheels instead of rear legs...

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #17 on: 04 July 2015, 07:03:33 »


If any of my characters ever encounters it, they will do the right thing and take it out of its misery.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #18 on: 06 July 2015, 07:42:13 »
I think people who fight alongside Tortoise IIs always laugh behind the backs of the pilots. Because I'm imagining this thing is outright hilarious looking when it runs.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Tortoise II
« Reply #19 on: 06 July 2015, 10:08:00 »
Despite it's looks, its pretty nasty customer in Assault Suit category.  It maybe short lived depending on how things go when the Falls come tumbling down around the Fortress.

Though i wish they were able to added a Myomer Booster so the off-duty troopers could go drag racing with this thing! XD
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