Author Topic: VotW: Zugvogel  (Read 15740 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Zugvogel
« on: 19 July 2015, 18:13:11 »


Four different people have requested this one over the past year, and I've put it off- after my last quest into support vehicles, I wanted to stay away from them for a while. But, there's interest in this beast, and I'm happy to put it out there at last after too long of a wait. It's an unusual article in that we're going to be working on something bigger than usual, and an Omni to boot... it also means that since I had no way of testing it as usual, so if errors show up I apologize in advance. In the interests of being completely honest... I hate support vehicles. The rules for them are a disaster in my opinion, and it makes it hard to want to use them. Your mileage may- and judging from requests, DOES- vary.

Lockheed/CBM found a need in the post-Jihad climate that needed filling- a fixed wing support aircraft. While they were the corporation behind the massive King Karnov already, that aircraft had been produced at the turn of the millenium. In that time, the King Karnov had seen every modification one could imagine- cargo hauler, flying ambulance, gun truck, command platform... now, Lockheed planned to build a replacement that could perform all those jobs at once- by using Omni- technology, the new plane could be modified a thousand and one ways to perform whatever job might be needed at the moment. The result was one of the most intriguing weapons in the Lyran arsenal, the Zugvogel.

Our Zugvogel test subject has landed at our test site, and we're ready to start testing it. We find that the big beast is powered by a commercial-level fusion engine, propelling the 200 ton plane to a 4/6 speed. Nothing magnificent- actually quite slow- but this isn't a quick-strike plane anyway. Worth noting, of course, is that this makes it a bit faster than the King Karnov it replaces. That engine's relative lack of power means more weight to be put into other systems, after all. Of course, at 45 tons, the engine still takes up a massive chunk of space as it is. With advantages such as XL engines not really being available to this size of unit, that's just how it goes. You aren't outrunning trouble- even the most hopeless aerospace fighter will run rings around you- so you'll need to find another way to get enemy units to go away. (Note that as a non-combat engine, no heat sinks are included.)

Armor isn't exactly going to dissuade trouble either. 11.5 tons of armor (BAR 10) gives a modest coating that will take a few hits here and there, but not really stop a determined attack for long. All four locations get 51 points (threshold of 6), and while that's plenty for surviving a pass or two from an attacking fighter, either your escorts get the heat off of you (you DID bring escorts, right?) or you're in some serious trouble. In particular, attacks from the sides mean that even the more 'toothy' versions of the Zugvogel will simply not be able to fight back, so if you find these birds in your enemy's forces, always try to hit from the side if you're not sure what the config is.

And those configs... with 71.5 tons of space to use (only slightly less than the King Karnov), there's no shortage of dirty tricks one can come up with for a Zugvogel. Interestingly, none of the canon configs attempt to recreate the simple heavy-lift aircraft role the King Karnov performs, though it wouldn't be hard to justify such a configuration either by simply devoting most of the pod space to the job. All versions with weaponry benefit from advanced fire control.

Prime: An armed transport version, the Prime starts with bombardment capability in the form of twin LRM-15s in the nose. These are fed by a cavernous five-ton ammo bay, allowing for alternate ammo types if you so desire. Speaking of alternate ammo, consider bringing some for the twin LAC-2s mounted along with the LRM racks. You have two tons of ammo for those guns, so go nuts. A single medium pulse laser rounds out the nose weaponry, with the four heat sinks that weapon requires. The rear of the aircraft has a surprise for those looking to avoid the forward weaponry- a light Gauss rifle is an unpleasant thing to find firing at the pilot trying to sneak up behind the Zugvogel. With only one ton of ammo, one hopes the enemy isn't TOO determined. And of course, that leaves us with 23.5 tons of cargo space to get the original transport job done- not near what the King Karnov can do, but still respectable, and with a pretty hefty weapon loadout to keep it safe. While the LACs aren't all that handy in the author's opinion, this is a very dangerous plane to deal with.

A: The command bird is intended to be a flying command post the likes of which haven't been seen before. The list of equipment to go with the command center reads like a who's-who of advanced technology- look-down radar, C3 master system, hyperspectral imager, hi-res imagers in all arcs, ten tons of communication equipment... if your commander lacks information when in a Zug A, he's not trying. Two rear-mounted LB-2X with a three-ton ammo bay keep the bird clear of tailing fighters, while a single medium VSP forward helps a bit there, but this is a very vulnerable beast- and with the obvious importance it carries, it's probably best to never, ever leave your commander's plane unescorted.

B: This one is a flying hospital, and while that makes for a very useful campaign objective it's not going to do you much good in most Battletech games. On board we find a ten-unit MASH hospital, paramedic equipment, searchlights, and a field kitchen- the kind of plane that every regiment would kill to have in the event they need it. While it's considered unsporting to fire at an enemy's medical units, one can't help but wonder how enemies view a Zug B- after all, today it's a MASH unit, but tomorrow it could have turned into a Prime and be dropping LRMs just as easily.This version, however, is totally unarmed, as befitting a medical unit... well, other than the light vehicle bay (likely carrying an ambulance unit rather than a tank), and the four-ton infantry bay for at least a minimum of security personnel to keep the hospital-site safe.

C: Another must-have for campaigns, the mobile repair station has a pair of mobile field bases crammed into its body, along with a lift hoist and searchlight for working well into the wee hours. 20 tons of cargo space for spare parts and ammo allow the MFBs to do their job, but the big surprise is the twelve-ton infantry bay, allowing for troops to secure the LZ and keep the enemy from getting their hands on their own handy flying repair station. This version is, as with the MASH unit, totally unarmed outside of its infantry complement. An aircraft like this, able to land and assist forces with repairs from even moderately-prepared sites, is a massive boost to an army's effectiveness- perhaps no other version is as intriguing to a campaign commander than this one.

D: While the Prime was a transport with guns, this time we've left off the cargo and gone with a pure gunship. Zug D (the 'Raubvogel') starts with twin Gauss rifles in the nose, fed by an enormous seven-ton ammo bin- feel free to take wild shots. A heavy PPC is mounted along with them, giving yet more punch with no need for ammo. The author can't help but feel that the heat sinks needed mean the Zug D should have used a third Gauss instead. A near-afterthought RL-10 joins the big guns for a little added punch. A single Ultra AC-2 is mounted aft to discourage pursuit, though it's hard to imagine what fighter pilot would be spooked away by an Ultra AC-2- this weapon is fed by two tons of ammo. Obviously, if a Zug D stoops out of the skies towards you, you have a major problem.

F: In 3145 we get a new version, another gunship. This time we find the show starts with three nose-mounted LRM-15s instead of the two the Prime got- but this time they're Clan-tech! And another one is mounted in each wing to cover the sides, for the first time. These launchers are fed by ten tons of ammo, for plenty of combat endurance. But the heaviest punch comes from the pair of nose-mounted Thunderbolt-20 launchers. That's not right. With ten shots each, you can't be quite as free to fire as the LRMs are, but a pass from an angry Zug F is breathtakingly powerful and deserves every bit of respect it commands. For those fighter pilots wishing to keep this soaring murder-machine from making a second pass on the ground troops, three Clan medium pulse lasers are a pretty sobering 'go away' notice.

One more thing- the writeup for the Trireme VTOL in 3085 Supplemental notes that a bid was made for Lockheed to produce pods that could carry a full company of battle armor. A COMPANY. That's evil. No record sheet exists for what this version ended up looking like, but one can make a pretty basic guess regardless.

So, there you have it. A magnificent, very useful bird with no shortage of fun tricks up its sleeve, any military would be proud to call such an aircraft their own- but, at least as of the TRO, only the Lyrans have them. Any ideas you have for configs? Sound off as usual. See you next time when we get back to more 'conventional' vehicles!
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Scotty

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #1 on: 19 July 2015, 18:48:27 »
A company of BA sounds like gravy to me.  Especially if you go with jump jet equipped troops!  You can drop them from altitude in your group's most unwelcome paradrop ever.  Bring along a couple remote sensor dispensers, and a couple mine dispensers with some token anti-pursuit armament, and you could have yourself arguably the nastiest thing in the game for dropping lots of tiny, angry metal objects where you don't want someone to go.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #2 on: 19 July 2015, 19:07:02 »
So . . . question, as I am not as familiar with support vehicles . . .

Is this VTOL or just VSTOL capable?
With it being an Omni does that mean troopies can hang on?
Which is the proper side to zipline Fenrir (MPL) out the door?

As for the BA version . . . I think you could take the Prime, drop the LACs and end up with the room to throw 36-40 medium BA suits out the doors.

Speaking of mines as Scotty mentioned . . . can this thing aerial drop minefields?  or are we talking about the LRM racks throwing down mines?  Only thing I can think of in the BT weapons list that comes close would be some sort of air-dropped FASCAM derived field . . . which CAN be evil if it is what the Prime is dropping along with its Thunder (not even T-AUG) fields.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #3 on: 19 July 2015, 19:13:11 »
Unless I'm mistaken, Fenrir being quad they're not allowed to use the zipline rules...

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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #4 on: 19 July 2015, 19:41:11 »
So . . . question, as I am not as familiar with support vehicles . . .

Is this VTOL or just VSTOL capable?
With it being an Omni does that mean troopies can hang on?
Which is the proper side to zipline Fenrir (MPL) out the door?

As for the BA version . . . I think you could take the Prime, drop the LACs and end up with the room to throw 36-40 medium BA suits out the doors.

Speaking of mines as Scotty mentioned . . . can this thing aerial drop minefields?  or are we talking about the LRM racks throwing down mines?  Only thing I can think of in the BT weapons list that comes close would be some sort of air-dropped FASCAM derived field . . . which CAN be evil if it is what the Prime is dropping along with its Thunder (not even T-AUG) fields.

In order:

1) This is an STOL aircraft, NOT VSTOL (near as I can find). So you do need a landing site- just not a full airstrip.
2) I can't find anything on this actually, whether an Omni support craft can do this or not. I can't think of a reason not to, but hopefully others will assist here.
3) Quads, as Ying noted, can't do ziplines. I'm sure this was probably discovered in hilarious fashion with early Sloth tests. ;)

Your BA version makes sense, and it's exactly what I'd do with it, but without a record sheet it's mere conjecture. Good pull though.

I can't think of a reason you couldn't drop mines, from the LRMs of course but from pod-mounted mine dispensers as well. Worth considering for sure.

Colt, the post above? That's the kind of post I love seeing in these- asking questions, coming up with ideas... thank you.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #5 on: 19 July 2015, 19:44:01 »
So...has anyone actually ever used one of these in a game?

(Personally I love the support vees. While they may not see much use on the TT, they give so much character to the universe.)

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #6 on: 19 July 2015, 19:54:00 »
I have three AS armies that use this beast in various forms
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #7 on: 19 July 2015, 19:56:51 »
Therefore I must have three AS armies that use enough flak to shoot this beast down in various forms. O0
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #8 on: 19 July 2015, 20:04:20 »
See, I was trying to top the line Weirdo (I think) came up with about when it comes to ziplines you have already thrown class out the window along with the Grenadier suit . . .

So . . . aside from the BA, what about Rocket pods like other aircraft?  How many would this thing mount if it was able to get them?

I liked the concept from when it was first mentioned along with the Tonbo- both make a lot of sense from the in game perspective to me.  Unfortunately my mercs are not going to be at the year let alone with the standing to get their hands on one of these for a while so they are not used.  I DO have some other support vehicles that I at least use for the background and will have to see if MM includes them yet or not . . . I REALLY want a blue-water ship I can put Long Toms, Cruise Missiles and Gauss turrets for fire support in MM games, but I do not think they are at that point yet.

Another thing to consider with this being a Lyran product . . . which front was it deployed to?  Were most assigned to the Clan front- I am not sure it would make a lot of strategic sense on that front.  Or did most of them go to the fractured League front?  With the nature of combat on that front I think they make more sense on that border with regards to their capability.  Which also means by 3145 the Crusader Wolves (Empire), Hell's Horses, Jade Falcons and maybe the neo-League by Tamarind have captured Zugvogel support craft.  Among those three groups, I think the League, then Wolves or Horses and finally Falcons would be who finds it useful.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #9 on: 19 July 2015, 20:50:54 »
According to the MUL, it's on the IS and Periphery General list, along with the various Merc lists and the Rasalhague Dominion. So it seems like pretty much everyone uses this thing except the non-Bear Clans.


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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #10 on: 19 July 2015, 20:55:48 »
Wonder how quickly it spread?  JHB is using the original fluff IIRC, which is they had not let it spread . . . but I seem to remember it mentioned as being spread around in the 3130s.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #11 on: 19 July 2015, 21:02:42 »
Wonder how quickly it spread?  JHB is using the original fluff IIRC, which is they had not let it spread . . . but I seem to remember it mentioned as being spread around in the 3130s.

You're correct, I'm going off the TRO info. If it's spread further via MUL, I take their word on it, but I don't have anything in front of me other than that explaining that widespread use by the Dark Age.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #12 on: 19 July 2015, 21:23:57 »
I should probably have mentioned that the MUL has that distribution in the Early Republic era (3086-3100), so apparently it spread quickly after its debut.


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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #13 on: 19 July 2015, 21:32:26 »
Field Manual: 3145's BLACK TORRENT short-story at begging of the book had one these babies drop off RotS's special ops team which was mainly infantry, battle armor in a Maxim Mk II Transport.   What configuration was that?  It could be C configuration, but i don't think so....without infantry bay, Prime could handle that much cargo/vehicle but it won't work if you go by the rules even if it's 23 tons of cargo.   B Configuration would be closes listed ones, since Light vehicle bay would allow for them to do it. The unit's assault  BA was mostly in Maxim Mk II which had plenty of room...
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #14 on: 19 July 2015, 21:58:39 »
The Zugvogel (Torrent) is a unique config that Welshman came up with. To my great sadness, it is as yet unpublished.

To similar great sadness, I have yet to try this out in combat yet, in any config.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #15 on: 19 July 2015, 22:58:05 »
So why no Spectre version with all the guns pointed out one side . . . or does that not really work by the rules?
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #16 on: 19 July 2015, 22:59:54 »
I hope it does, because I would abso-freaking-lutely shove a Gauss Rifle, Clan Ultra/5, and HAG/20 into each side in order to simulate exactly that.  Because it's awesome.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #17 on: 19 July 2015, 23:01:39 »
Re the idea of having battle armor ride on the outside: no, that wouldn't be possible. I'm not sure the current rules properly cover this, as on review I feel that designs like this fell through the cracks when the Mech BA rules were recently revised - the intention is that BA can't ride externally on anything that goes underwater or leaves the ground, with the latter having the sole exception of jumping Mechs. Mag Clamp suits riding on non-Omnis are already denied, as are OmniFighters, and arguably a Fixed Wing Support Vehicle is more an OmniFighter than an OmniVehicle, but I'm aware of what rules lawyers can be like, so I'll get the possible loophole dealt with.

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #18 on: 19 July 2015, 23:22:30 »
So why no Spectre version with all the guns pointed out one side . . . or does that not really work by the rules?

Saldy, no. Aerodyne aeros have no side-pointing firing arcs at all to put guns in, your choices are nose, aft, forward-pointed wings, or aft-pointed wings. And no, the wing arcs don't go any further to the side than the centerline ones. Moreover all aeros must be built symmetrical, so even if you could mount side guns, you'd have to put them on both sides. This is why the creators of the Planetlifter SuperPelican put their guns in forward arcs, despite the fact that their tastes in awesomeness almost certainly match ours. Trust me, if we could have a Spectre, we'd already have one, aside from the Karnov.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #19 on: 19 July 2015, 23:27:47 »
I'm now imagining just how much sheer pain would still happen with:

2x (Clan) Gauss (4 tons ammo)
2x (Clan) UAC/5 (3 tons ammo)
2x (Clan) HAG/20 or RAC/5 (6 tons ammo)
1x 0.5 ton cargo space
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #20 on: 19 July 2015, 23:29:28 »
I swear I have seen specs for the Zug E. -Checks RS: 3085: CE-

Yeah, there it is. Paired AMS Fore and Aft, Paired MML-5s Forward, RAC/2 Aft, Guardian ECM, 48 Ton Infantry Compartment, 1 ton RAC/2 Ammo, 3 tons AMS Ammo, 2 tons MML ammo.


Edit: And the F's aft lasers according to my copy of RS 3145... are Medium CHEMICAL Lasers. Not Pulse Lasers.
« Last Edit: 19 July 2015, 23:40:13 by VhenRa »

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #21 on: 19 July 2015, 23:51:07 »
I thought we had ASF that were unbalanced . . .


As for the VTOL . . . I thought they could still magclamp on them?  I know there have been jokes about it.  I also know the theory has been thrown around about that is why we lack a Omni-VTOL.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #22 on: 20 July 2015, 00:06:37 »
Hmm, a few thoughts.

One, while 4/6 is slow for a fighter, it fits for a support bird.  That is the same speed as a Planetlifter.  And it means as long as it can get off the ground in time it can easily outpace any enemy non-air or aerospace unit.  Also the prime seems to be an escort variant, possibly for either King Karnovs or fellow Zugs kitted out as pure trash haulers.  And if a bit light for aerospace fighters, it can ruin the day of a conventional rather handily.

Two I see these as RCT/Divisional level assets at least.  Basically held by the upper levels of command and missions are chopped as higher prioritizes support requests.

Prime is an armed escort transport.  Capable of carrying some on it's own, but organic support if some conventionals or light aerospace fighters try to bounce your cargo flights.

On the Beta and Charlie, both have to land to get to work.  And in this role the Zug is basically a self deploying base, or the core of one.  It is tempting to try using the Alpha the same way, easier to hide.  But that loses the use of all the lookdown sensors.  Still something to hang back from the lines at high altitude and peak at the fight.  Also I see a fair chunk (or all?) of that infantry space being used to carry medical and technical personnel respectively.

Delta is a conversion to a pure escort, or poor man's ground support bird.

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #23 on: 20 July 2015, 00:20:56 »
As for the VTOL . . . I thought they could still magclamp on them?  I know there have been jokes about it.  I also know the theory has been thrown around about that is why we lack a Omni-VTOL.

Nope. BA couldn't magclamp VTOLs (nor aerospace, including fixed wing and airship support vehicles) before the recent errata. With the errata, that prohibition now encompasses OmniVTOLs:

Mechanized Battle Armor (p. 227)
In between the “Magnetic Clamps” and “MP Reduction” subsections, insert the following new subsection:
Movement Restrictions: Whether or not the battle armor is equipped with magnetic clamps, no vehicle may expend UMU, VTOL, WiGE or Jumping MP while carrying mechanized battle armor, and no ’Mech may expend UMU MP.

As for the idea that OmniVTOLs were being blocked from publication due to the issue of Mech BA, that's not anything that's ever come up that I'm aware of. Quite simply, nobody has ever designed one for inclusion in a TRO or other sourcebook. Same as nobody did an Omni Fixed Wing Support Vehicle before the Zugvogel.

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #24 on: 20 July 2015, 01:55:27 »
I think it was discussed in a thread about the Yasha, fluff says it was supposed to be a Omni in original design.

Nikas- actually just like modern medevac planes, they are flying hospitals.  Theoretically they could load up and fly back to a fullscale hospital to offload way in the rear- if you wanted to risk one close to the front.

I also wonder if the infantry bays for the MFB and MASH versions are really accomodations for the techs and medical staff respectively.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #25 on: 20 July 2015, 02:08:32 »
One thing to keep in mind, as this is a large SV it's unloads/drops infantry into the six hexes around it, not the one it occupies.

As for the Ziplines, you only need to be able to make anti-'Mech attacks, so it's possible but unlikely that Quad BA can use that option. That said, BADC should be an option instead

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #26 on: 20 July 2015, 04:24:54 »
One thing to keep in mind, as this is a large SV it's unloads/drops infantry into the six hexes around it, not the one it occupies.

As for the Ziplines, you only need to be able to make anti-'Mech attacks, so it's possible but unlikely that Quad BA can use that option. That said, BADC should be an option instead

Well, quad BA can't make "anti-'Mech" attacks, period (it can shoot at 'Mechs, but isn't capable of either leg attacks or swarming), so if that was the requirement that would indeed stop it.

That said, nothing in the (short) TacOps section on zip lines actually says anything about quads not being able to use them. You need to make an anti-'Mech skill roll to avoid taking damage along the way, but I don't think anything in the rules ever says that quad BA troopers flat-out don't have that skill (even if their suits then don't have the manipulators to let them attack with it), so it's not even a given that they'd automatically fail that roll either.

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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #27 on: 20 July 2015, 05:32:11 »
Yeah, and it's not like the quads couldn't just be clipped to the line; it's not like swarming where you'd actually need manipulators to do it.


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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #28 on: 20 July 2015, 08:20:01 »
I dunno about quad suits, but I do know that Zugvogels cannot be used with them, as the Zug(:)) is neither a VTOL nor an airship. Now BADCs, those would work quite nicely.
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Re: VotW: Zugvogel
« Reply #29 on: 20 July 2015, 09:50:50 »
Hellby, question for ya. The C has a 12-ton infantry bay. Can that version be used to transport a company of Battle Armor? Without looking more closely it might have trouble deploying, but it should have the tonnage.
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