'Mech of the Week: T-IT-NXXX Grand Titan

[GreekFire]

From TRO:3055

There’s no need to lie to any of you: the original Grand Titan isn’t a stellar ‘Mech. The TRO hints at this, with mentions of the design being plagued by a hellish series of technical problems and ever-changing demands. So many adjustments and alterations were made that this new take on the older Titan formula pushed it far away from its original source. One truly has to ask what its re-designers were attempting to accomplish when “modernizing” this design. My personal theory? This was the League’s in-house attempt at finally having their own version of the AS7-D Atlas. Regardless of what you think of the venerable Atlas, its in-universe reputation was undeniably and ineffably linked with one of an imposing and devastating ruler of the battlefield. It would come as no surprise that the League would want to be able to reliably field a weapon as powerful as this legendary machine.

The comparison is easy. Two 100-tonners, both of them with absolutely mediocre firepower beyond nine (or ten, in the GT’s case) hexes. The Atlas’s LRM-20 is opposed by an Artemis-IV enhanced LRM-15, giving the Grand Titan more endurance and roughly the same damage output in a much-condensed package. The older arm-mounted medium lasers are “upgraded” into pulse models, while the rear-mounted models are swapped with Small Pulse Lasers. Then the solitary SRM-6 finds itself not only boosted via Artemis-IV on the Grand Titan, but mounted alongside a new launcher of the same size in the opposite torso. Even the armor of the two ‘Mechs has its similarities; while the Atlas has a full shell of armor, the Grand Titan drops a ton and a half’s worth to devote the tonnage towards an Anti-Missile System and its ammo - giving it the same endurance, albeit of a different kind. The switch to double heat sinks (twelve of them) and an XL engine moving it 4/6 instead of 3/5 aren’t bad things in and of themselves…so where does the Grand Titan fall apart? Where do things go wrong? Easy. The “big” guns, the Atlas’s AC/20 gone mild: the twin Large Pulse Lasers.

You see, when the League decided they needed their own version of the Atlas they added their own “flair”. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the Stalker was a source of inspiration here; if a smaller Assault ‘Mech worked well as a bracket fighter, why couldn’t the Grand Titan? And they might have been right. Things do work, in their own bizarre way:

-Hexes 11+: LRM-15 (no overheat)
-Hexes 5-10: 2xLPL + LRM-15 (+1 before movement)
-Hexes 1-4: LPL + 2 MPLs + 2 SRM-6s (+2 before movement)

What does this tell us? The Grand Titan has a six-hex “sweet spot” at ranges 5-10. It can use its increased accuracy here to find an advantage over shorter-ranged designs without exposing itself to more accurate firepower found at ranges 1-3. You’re also able to force PSRs in this sweet spot…but only if the LRMs hit - and if only one Pulse Laser hits, you need 12+ missiles to connect to hit the magic 20. The requirements are steep. And even then, you’d  ideally want to aim for hexes 7-10 in order to avoid return weapons fire from AC/20s, Medium Lasers and SRMs as much as possible. If it can’t get there, the Grand Titan  starts falling apart. Its firepower is too limited by its heat output.

Additionally, this 5-10 range scenario leaves the secondary firepower largely decorative - definitely not the best deal for the BV you’re paying. The Stalker has it better: its Large Lasers can reach out to 15 hexes, and here the Large Pulse Laser only really has an advantage as a weapon system at ranges 1-3 (which should largely be covered by the Grand Titan’s SRMs and MPLs) or ranges 6-7. So that gives you a two hex advantage over the introtech Stalker…and a short-ranged weapons array that’s largely similar to the cheaper design.

Of course, the real reason I’m being so hard on the twin Large Pulse Lasers is that nearly any other alternative would have served the Grand Titan more. Two (ER) Large Lasers would have given it greater range and better brackets, while also allowing for more heat sinks in the engine. And two PPCs would have weighed the same as the Large Pulses, all while giving it a much more reliable ranged punch.

So there you have it. A ‘Mech that’s comparable to introtech Assaults, that costs only 80 BV less than your good ol’ Atlas - and that most definitely doesn’t have much to show for it. Sure, it might be the cheapest 4/6 100-ton ‘Mech out there, and sure, that has its advantages. Its physical might can’t be ignored. And if it has one advantage, it’s that it absolutely melts lights…but even so, if that’s what you want, why not go for a cheaper Marauder -5M or something? It’s not like the Free Worlds League was wanting for pulseboats at the time.

The Grand Titan was upgraded, though! With an introductory date of 3058, the -N11M is better. Sort of. It’s more streamlined, that’s for sure. The LRM-15 was replaced by a Light Gauss Rifle and an ERPPC…still no PSRs here. It’s even more problematic in the 3058 era, but heck, as a team player it can add onto a ranged volley…and the more concentrated firepower is definitely welcome. Two more Medium Pulse Lasers are added and all four are shifted to the Torsos, while both SRM-6s are replaced by Streak SRM-4s. CASE is added, ECM replaces the AMS, and the rear-mounted Small Pulse Lasers are ditched. A final ER Small is added in the head. And best of all, more heat sinks are added for a total of sixteen doubles planted in the engine. Brackets are easy now:

-Hexes 7+: LGR + ERPPC (no overheat, add Streaks at hexes 7-9)
-Hexes 1-6: ERPPC + LGR + 4x MPL (heat neutral with run, add Streaks/ERSL as needed)

Firepower at knife-fighting ranges is dramatically better. Both long-ranged guns can now be ditched in order to bring the Streaks and two brutal punches to the table. But your midranged firepower is staggeringly awful; you definitely need a good partner to make this Grand Titan work. And it can! Cover its weakness and use its brawling ability to compliment other direct or indirect fire-support ‘Mechs of its era. Still, if its caught on its own the inability to force PSRs beyond 9 hexes (and even then it’s difficult until range 6) is a huge problem. Another would be comparisons with the equally available Cerberus -5M. The Cerberus not only has a full-fledged Gauss Rifle at its disposal, but a larger array of Medium Pulse Lasers…all for roughly the same BV. Ultimately, one has to decide whether that headcapper and additional lasers are worth more or less than the critseekers, ECM, additional armor and the PSR-forcing kick.

Next up is a command variant, born of the murderous combat of the Jihad. Honestly…the -N13M is pretty crazy. A TSM-brawler, its firepower consists of a Small Pulse Laser, two Medium Lasers, two ER Mediums, an ER Large, and a Heavy PPC. A Sword is carried in its Right Arm, and the engine is downgraded to a standard model (giving it 3/5 movement) boosted by three jump jets. It also has a couple of armored components:
-The engine.
-The heavy duty gyro.
-The cockpit.
-The shoulders, both arm actuators, and the hands.
-The hips, both leg actuators, and the feet.

Yeah. That’s a lot of armored stuff. Fourteen double heat sinks mean you can use the ERLL and HPPC at range without overheating, with a nice mix of firepower to suit your needs up close. There you go: the TSM zombie is actually our first and only Grand Titan able to force PSRs at a decent range. Push the heat dial, and a 22-point sword swing (or, y’know, super-strength punches or kicks) can make things interesting.

My real issue with this ‘Mech isn’t its finicky heat dial (which could be worse, in all honesty) or its slower speed. It’s mainly that damage still adds up as quickly as with a normal Grand Titan. I know, this is a bit of a ridiculous complaint when critting out this ‘Mech is completely unfeasible, but you’re paying a staggering BV cost - it manages to be 140 points more expensive than the terrifying Light-Engine’d, TSM’d, and Hatchet-carrying -C3 Berserker. Is it good for campaigns, though? I’d wager so. No ammo, no lucky ways to crit-kill the ‘Mech, and its functionally its own bodyguard. I can see why commanders could like this one.

Our last model is the most far-fetched of the bunch. This time we’re going to the wild, wild year of 3075. The -N14R (Vengeance) is the same sort of Grand Titan as the -N13M, with an armored standard engine and an armored cockpit supported by an armored compact gyro. The two jump jets also seem so hark back to our last variant, but that’s where similarities end. You see, the -N14R is an artillery ‘Mech. It has a single Thumper fed by two tons of ammo, both of them protected by CASE II. The only back-up firepower at its disposal are the twin Clan-Spec ER Medium Lasers found in its arms, with the stunningly light firepower easily vented by the ten double heat sinks.

Any math-crunchers unfamiliar with this design must be wondering where a full third of this ‘Mech’s weight went. That’s easy to answer: Hardened Armor, and 24.5 tons of it. That’s a lot. More than any other ‘Mech out there save the experimental Great Turtle on Solaris - you know, that thing literally made to be the toughest ‘Mech imaginable. Why would you even need that much armor? According to the fluff, nukes. This Grand Titan was supposedly made to carry nuclear payloads in those CASE II-protected bins, launching them at high-priority targets all while praying to survive the shockwave.

Issue is…the rules don’t really play nice with this. Or rather, they don’t play at all. Nuclear munitions only exist for Arrow-IV launchers, so if you’re going by the book your option is to pay for a very pricey (albeit very survivable) piece of artillery. It *is* the only canon ‘Mech that has a Thumper on it, though, and that’s got to be worth something to someone. Right? In campaign play, though, ‘specially one with Regulans involved, then this machine could be an absolutely terrifying sight on the battlefield. Best back off once you see this walking warcrime on the horizon.

~ ~ ~

End result? The Grand Titan is a ‘Mech which takes an experienced hand. I wouldn’t suggest giving them to a beginner unless you’re playing on a single mapsheet where they can quickly bring their universal short-ranged specialty to bear. Anything larger, and you start needing more and more planning and better partners to get the best out of them. Are they worth trying out, though? Certainly. Give them a spin, and come back to tell the rest of us how to use the damn things. Heaven knows I’ve tried.

Master Unit List: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=grand+titan
Iron Wind Metals: http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1738
Iron Wind Metals (-N14R "Vengeance"): http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8881
CamoSpecs: http://camospecs.com/MiniList.asp?Action=Detail&ID=243
CamoSpecs (-N14R "Vengeance"): http://camospecs.com/MiniList.asp?Action=Detail&ID=1593

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I like the N13M variant, but there's this Shootist that keeps showing up trying to kill it.

[Kojak]

Personally, I think the N13M is superior to the BRZ-C3, for a couple reasons. Primarily, it has the advantage of jump jets, which allow it to put terrain between it and attackers (or close the gap) in ways that the Berserker can't, especially in urban terrain. Second, it's much more difficult to get the Berserker to 9 heat (and stay there) than it is with the N13M. There's also the fact that the N13M can force a PSR out to 18 hexes, half again as far as the BRZ can.

[worktroll]

Every FWL design seems to be at heart a team player - we lack the sort of solo "champion" designs other houses field. At least until we come to the 13M.

Even then, the 13M functions better with friends - it becomes one of those "Do I shoot at the heavily armoured command 'Mech, or at the lighter-armoured but upgunned LGR/LRM fiends behind it which are shredding me?"

W

[marauder648]

An excellent write up, the Noptimus Prime was always a fave mech of mine based on the visuals and I remember using one when it first came out, its a good but not great machine as standard and the main variant is definately a team player whilst the arty i'd say is more for set piece scenario's and campaigns or some such thing rather than being something you'd dole out for a random battle.

And speaking of the arty I love the artwork for it, even if its stance does make it look like its startled or surprised!  A case of;

BOOOOM!!!!

"OH SWEET JESUS WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT!!?!?!"

"Err...the huge cannon on your shoulder?"

"Oh yeah..forgot it was there.."

[Kidd]

Nice writeup for a less popular Mech. The N11M and N13M definitely stand out, but I get the feeling that the Grand Titan in general is a specialist, what I think American footballers call defensive backs - they can throw some token fire downrange but mostly stay in cover until the brawl starts and then they rush in, the 11M with pulsers and the 14M with that shiny sword and 40pt kicks.

4/6 XL Assaults tend to be overgrown Heavy Mechs. Expectations suitably adjusted, they should do well.

[Empyrus]

Reading the article, i go nope and noper with each variant. Except the final one, which is cool as hell... or would be, if it could be used as supposed.
You say only Arrow IV have nuclear munitions but Long Toms do too, actually. Basically Atomic Annie. Of course, a 'mech cannot carry a Long Tom thanks to its massive size, so this is kind of a moot point.
Makes me wonder if Thumpers were supposed to have a nuclear round, or if there's a fluff nuke for it but no rules?

The N13M is kind of OK but not OK. Seems wasteful.

[marauder648]

Simple option for the nuke shell - Does the same damage as an arrow nuke.  Job done :P

[misterpants]

I like the N13M variant, but there's this Shootist that keeps showing up trying to kill it.

That was my first thought as well, although I was imagining more a partial wing and retractable blade setup.

Are there any FWL units with a red and blue primary paint scheme?

[glitterboy2098]

Are there any FWL units with a red and blue primary paint scheme?

3rd Sirian Lancers. "The Third Lancers' BattleMechs, Vehicles and fighters bear ochre-red paint schemes with blue hightlights."
http://camospecs.com/Unit.asp?ID=151

[marauder648]

*coughs*

[Nahuris]

Every FWL design seems to be at heart a team player - we lack the sort of solo "champion" designs other houses field. At least until we come to the 13M.

Even then, the 13M functions better with friends - it becomes one of those "Do I shoot at the heavily armoured command 'Mech, or at the lighter-armoured but upgunned LGR/LRM fiends behind it which are shredding me?"

W

Actually, pair a Grand Titan with 2 Hercules and back it with an Archer, and you have a serious lance...... individually, none of these mechs is truly great, but when together, the compliment each other very well. You can use, pretty much, any variant of the Grand Titan, but I do suggest the command variant.

Nahuris

[Wrangler]

*coughs*

I like how Matt Plog was in on the joke, since the 3055 Upgrade art work has "Roll Out" on Grant Titan's shoulder.  ;D

That reminds me, non-Canon but still variant (by way of silhouette) Leader-Class AutoMech, that would been interesting one add to the list.  :D

Seriously though, GreekFire, what original Grand Titan you talking about?
I thought that the Grand Titan was loosely based on the original Star League Titan that originally appeared in Battletechnology wasn't it?  Titan II came about based on Star League version, which became WoB and later RotS's designs.

[garhkal]

*coughs*

That paint job makes me think of Optimus prime..

FOr me, strangely i have always liked the GT..  Also i have done well using them.

[Caedis Animus]

That's what the Paint Job is supposed to make you think :P

[Agathos]

Here we are on the verge of throwing off the yoke of Harmony Gold, and you people are begging for a letter from Hasbro.

[GreekFire]

Seriously though, GreekFire, what original Grand Titan you talking about?
I thought that the Grand Titan was loosely based on the original Star League Titan that originally appeared in Battletechnology wasn't it?  Titan II came about based on Star League version, which became WoB and later RotS's designs.

Hrm, I could have worded it better. Humerously enough, the Titan II entry talks about the GT's lineage the most, saying the Grand Titan "...drifted so far away from its own (unpublicized) origins as a modern remake of a pre-Exodus SLDF prototype that it effectively became its own machine." and "...when VEST’s Grand Titan debuted, it became clear that Vining’s tinkerers had been given access to the recovered specs (of the Titan) and allowed to run wild with them."

If the design originally appeared in Battletechnology, that's beyond me. I've never owned a single issue and don't know squat about them.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Here we are on the verge of throwing off the yoke of Harmony Gold, and you people are begging for a letter from Hasbro.

Don't be such a Decepticon.

[SteelRaven]

If the design originally appeared in Battletechnology, that's beyond me. I've never owned a single issue and don't know squat about them.

Not sure if the Grand Titan was design before or after Battlecorpe was declared non-canon but like the Grand Crusader, it didn't share much with it's name sake. 

[The Eagle]

Something I noticed early on about the League's 'Mech stable from TRO:3055 was a rather exorbitant employment of pulse lasers.  Wraith, Apollo, Anvil, Tempest, Albatross, and the Grand Titan all employ at least one and in several cases multiple pulse lasers with a heavy reliance on larges.  I personally believe that this was not only a deliberate choice by the real-world designers, but also a nod to the in-universe fact that your average Spheroid MechWarrior isn't a fantastic gunner.  Add range and movement modifiers and you usually end up with plenty of missed shots.  The pulse laser is the great equalizer, allowing Green- and Regular-rated pilots to achieve hit percentages you wouldn't normally see in their skill brackets.  Considering that at the time, the FWLM was facing the potential for renewed conflict with the now-integrated AFFC -- more than double the size of the FWLM, and battle-hardened trying to stem the Falcon and Wolf advances -- and the possibility of a Clan assault through Lyran space and across the border, the FWLM needed some way of increasing the potency of its 'Mech force in order to stand up to these threats despite its smaller size and lack of operational experience.  The pulse laser was that equalizer, effectively improving the skill of its MechWarriors. Hell, even the MAD-5M packs on four pulse lasers instead of reverting to PPCs like most other upgraded Marauders.

For me, in-game, the massed pulse lasers of the -N10M make it an extremely effective bully against faster 'Mechs that rely on their TMM to survive.  That same effect is useful against enemy heavy and assault 'Mechs as well; you need a higher hit percentage against them to grind through their armor faster, and pulse lasers can make 6s and 7s to hit into 4s and 5s, which makes low dice rolls less apt to bone you over.

Some of you also seem to be forgetting the cardinal rule of the Marik 'Mechs: work as a team.  The Grand Titan, like so many other League products, isn't a duelist.  It shouldn't be trying to stand toe-to-toe by itself with an Atlas.  The "magical 20" points to inflict a PSR isn't the sole purview of those LPLs; there will be semi-guided LRMs, ER larges, and LGR rounds contributing as well.  That's why it has such heavy armor and an AMS: it needs to be survivable so it can close with the enemy and draw fire, while the pulse lasers eliminate its AMM and the rest of the lance contributes long range fire in support.  I've used this sort of a set up multiple times, always to frustration of my opponents.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

"Relative lack of ammo"- just what are we comparing it to? ???

Really, I think that the FWL's love affair with LPLs at the time was more likely to be a result of its lack of contact with the Clans, since pulse lasers really aren't that effective against Clan mechs.

[glitterboy2098]

to be fair, the FWL had a preference for lasers that dates back to the succession wars. they refit a lot of designs to use lasers primarily back then, because they had a lot of lasers to use.

they also, IIRC, were producing most of the lasers the IS was using against the clans. so it would make sense to me that they'd design their mechs around weapons they were producing in large quantities.

the FWL also seems to have really liked missiles, looking at their succession war designs, so the use of heavy Missile payloads makes sense too.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

If the design originally appeared in Battletechnology, that's beyond me. I've never owned a single issue and don't know squat about them.

Think an Atlas, though the exact armor distribution might have been different even for the same tonnage.  The change was in the weapon load, two PPCs, (each side torso IIRC), six Medium Lasers (three per arm), four SRM-4 with two tons of ammo total (split between the side torsos), and a SRM-6 with a ton of ammo (launcher in the CT, can't recall where the ammo went), 22 single heat sinks.

[garhkal]

"Relative lack of ammo"- just what are we comparing it to? ???

I think he meant relative lack of armor (only having 18 tons vice 19.5)..

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That's why it has such heavy armor, an AMS, and a relative lack of ammunition: it needs to be survivable so it can close with the enemy and draw fire, while the pulse lasers eliminate its AMM and the rest of the lance contributes long range fire in support.

I think he meant relative lack of armor (only having 18 tons vice 19.5)..

Nope, don't think he means that.

[GreekFire]

*snip*

Right, and I get that. But like I said, my issue revolves around the failings of the Large Pulse Lasers on the Grand Titan itself. It doesn't use them well at its strongest ranges, hexes 1-3. Those are the hexes where the secondary weapons beg to be used. So either you use the LPLs and largely ignore your secondary firepower, or you mix and match as needed...which I don't really think is optimal when at such short ranges. Hell, it'd even work in my eyes if the Medium Pulses were in the Torsos - then they could be considered to be back-ups in case the main guns get blown off.

That leaves hexes 6-7 where the LPLs to outperform standard Large Laser in terms of accuracy...or just range 7 if comparing it with a standard PPC. Otherwise, it has the same or worse accuracy as those other weapon systems, and that's all at the expense of range. The LPL and MPL/SRM range brackets are simply too close together.

So basically, my problem with the -N10M is that it has both Large and Medium Pulse Lasers, but not enough sinks to reliably use both (even without firing the SRMs). And that's also why I prefer the -N11M - it can accomplish that same role of drawing fire but in a much more refined way.

[SteelRaven]

If it is based even just a little of the original Titain, then it's no real surprise. Both mechs run hot, nether can take full advantage of their arsenal due to heat. Hell, the Grand Titan has only slightly better cooling capabilities with 12 DHS vs the 22 SHS of the Titan.

Wait.. the 2 Medium Pules and 2 Large Pules do the same damage as the 6 Medium laser of the Titan. The Grand Titan's LRM 15 and 2X SRM 6 in theory can do wreck the the same havoc as 4X SRM and a SRM 6... I guess the Grand Titan N10M has more in common with the original Titan than I first thought. Not that a good thing, the N11M and N13M are more well rounded.

[marauder648]

The Titan II is a different beast though, i'd say its superior.

[The Eagle]

Nope, don't think he means that.

I actually need to retract that statement (and my post has been modified to reflect such).  It has been so long since I played one that I went back to double-check myself in light of your question; I had forgotten that it carried five tons of ammo (I thought it only had three).  Though in my defense, I was running with an AS7-K comparison, which itself has ten total criticals capable of exploding thanks to the gauss rifle.  Consider me suitably chastised.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Fair enough.