Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer  (Read 10566 times)

Moonsword

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Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« on: 25 November 2015, 14:33:11 »
Well, since Hellbie is… indisposed (*cut away to an emerald Hellbringer with the hatches welded shut, with a faint banging noise from the cockpit*), I’ve decided to toss my hat back into the ring at least once.  By request, I’m covering the Wakamiya salvage destroyer, one of the new units from the back of Handbook: House Kurita.  Most of the entries in the Handbook series brought us a new large naval support vessel, ranging from Davion’s Rapier destroyers and their green-painted mirror in Liao’s service up to the mighty Jormungand.  The Wakamiyas are rather closer to the Jormungand in size but they’re not battlecruisers, operating as something of a large aviation destroyer in wartime with the firepower to make attacking one require a serious commitment.

To understand the Wakamiya, you first need to read about the Glomar Explorer.  Built to raise the wreck of Soviet submarine K-129 from the sea for the CIA by Howard Hughes, she was the original inspiration for the Wakamiya - a direction I was given when I was asked to put the design’s stats together.  (Yes, that means I’m the idiot responsible for building the raging weaksauce here!  You’re welcome.)  The Wakamiyas don’t canonically have a suitably mustachioed eccentric creator, unfortunately, but the idea was to build a ship that can operate as the hub of a salvage operation.  That’s much of the genesis of the ship’s generous vehicle support space, in fact.  In wartime, those vehicle bays are filled by armed submarines, attack and reconnaissance VTOLs, and military hovercraft and light surface escorts.  In the Jihad, you might want to add Hiryo WiGEs to that list - the ship has space to convert into battle armor cubicles, after all, and the sudden presence of a couple of squads of Raiden suits on someone’s deck could be a persuasive “suggestion” to heave to.  In peacetime, while a Wakamiya might operate with a few escorts, she can also support the operation of patrol boats, transport and survey helicopters, or salvage submarines able to dive deep and find whatever it is the Dragon requires from the ocean’s bounty.  The fluid guns, lift hoists, and support craft can also support search and rescue or maritime salvage work, showing the Dragon’s sheltering paw instead of its sharp claws.  Historically, the ship was named for the first Japanese aircraft carrier.

To start off the general specs on the Wakamiya, let’s go with her size, 50,500 tons.  That’s an oddly specific number, the same displacement as Glomar Explorer, and trust me, that’s not a coincidence by any means.  A fusion power plant provides them with the ability to cruise unhindered by fuel constraints and as a bonus, it also lets the Wakamiya generate fresh water (meaning it has to carry less consumables or can refill its own tanks for fire suppression without support) or raw hydrogen to refuel any units with fuel cell engines.

Considering the size and complexity of the unit, I’m not going to this point by point, but the armor is solid enough that breaching it will take a lot of work, ranging from 200 points on the bow to 171 on the stern, with 160 points on each of the ship’s three turrets.  All parts of the ship have 56 points in internal structure.  That’s nice, although the risk of through-armor crits is high enough that the Wakamiya is well-served to have her support units and weapons deal with a problem before too long.  The centerpiece of the anti-surface armament (and the anti-air armament, for that matter) is the trio of Long Tom artillery pieces, enough to make the Wakamiya a fair artillery battery all by itself.  Each turret has a pair of PPCs while the bow and stern mounts have an array of LRM 20s – four racks on the front turret and two on the rear.  It’s enough to make low altitude airstrikes considerably more interesting and the PPCs can make most aerospace fighters worry about the potential for being thresholded.  Machine gun mounts ring the ship for suppressing anyone who feels like trying boarding operations or snuggling up close to the hull and detonating a bomb.  The fluid guns I’ve mentioned before are on each side location in double mounts, allowing the ship to bathe targets in water or fire suppressant foam.  Surface or submarine combatants are met with the ship’s array of torpedo tubes.  A half-dozen twenty tube long-range torpedo launchers are spread across the front arcs with another mount on the stern.  Four six-tube short-range torpedo launchers are also mounted and another one aft, potentially hammering anyone who gets past the submarine escorts and LRTs with a spread of torpedoes that may be able to force breach checks.

All the ship’s hardware is from the Age of War, so she doesn’t have anything fancy from the Star League era or the technological renaissance after the Helm Core.  There are no known major variants but given their centuries of service and wide variety of duties over the years, I imagine some mission-specific configurations have crept quietly into service on the margins of history.  The ships are fitted with just over 11,500 tons of bulk cargo space that can be sectioned off to support different types of salvage or mining operations – or defensive operations that can best be described as “aggressive”, as House Davion discovered in the Second Succession War.  That doesn’t count the additional refrigerated storage or liquid tanks for various purposes.  On top of that, a dozen light vehicle bays support a helipad aft of the conning tower while four more and a quartet of super-heavy vehicle bays provide docking for submarines below the water line.  Eight heavy vehicle bays can carry surface escorts or hovercraft, as mentioned before.  That makes for a formidable little vehicle complement on top of anything else the Dragon might have deployed on the waves.

Okay, that’s great, but if you’re not a son of the Dragon, you’re probably more interested in a different question: How do I kill it?  I tried to make that at least a little difficult for you but these ships don’t dodge that readily provided you can bring weapons to bear.  Artillery is one option but with their cruising speed, unless a Wakamiya is operating close in to shore, she can frequently maneuver quite handily to evade fire from anything that’s not close enough for the Long Toms to return fire the same turn.  Direct surface attacks are possible but complicated seriously by the ship’s own escorts, as are submarine attacks.  That leaves coming in from above.  If you’re going to do air strikes, the torpedo bombs on TacOps page 360 are worth a look but you need to be prepared for multiple passes or bring enough aircraft to hammer the ship hard enough to either sink her or force her to withdraw, which may be good enough for your purposes.

Reference: The only reference I could turn up is at Sarna.net but you may also want to do a little reading about the ship's namesake, Japanese seaplane carrier Wakamiya, the Glomar Explorer, or Project Azorian.

« Last Edit: 11 June 2018, 07:14:40 by Moonsword »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #1 on: 25 November 2015, 17:05:50 »
There is a reason why LHDs are increasingly popular in the real world. Particularly for their non combat roles.
This ship fills that gap nicely and is a good representation of what a useful wet navy ship should be in a universe of overwhelming air superiority.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #2 on: 25 November 2015, 18:17:10 »
I'll take one! Here's my money (throws cash at screen) man I do not want to have to face that monster anytime soon.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #3 on: 25 November 2015, 18:38:38 »
A little further background (also, hi).

The concept came from a talk with Ben Rome over lunch one day after I'd been doing some reading about Glomar Explorer possibly being reactivated, as well as a book that had new (if dubious) revelations about the operation the Golf-class sub had been on when lost. With HB:HK in planning, Ben and I discussed the idea of a ship like this being the blue-water vessel at the back of the handbook.

The original concept was... well, I'll level with you, it wasn't good. The size was similar, and armor was slated to be pretty similar, but the final version has a hell of a lot more firepower- the original design (which in my notes was tentatively named 'Musashi' as a placeholder) had several point-defense MGs and AMS systems, and a pair of turrets that each packed a quartet of AC-2s for anti-aircraft work. The rest of the weight was put into the salvage gear and flight equipment that would make the ship what it was to be- a mining platform of epic proportions, as Glomar Explorer was claimed to be when built (obviously the ship's real purpose didn't come out for several years after the attempted submarine haul).

To be honest, I like the final Wakamiya much better than 'Musashi'- in retrospect, while I wanted to keep weaponry limited to basics so as not to clutter the original concept, it would have likely resulted in my being drawn and quartered by Kurita fans (and I can only blame Ben for so much!)- after all, with other houses getting badass ships like Argo and Jormungand, the Combine gets 'Musashi'? Bad move on my part. This kept the original concept intact, but was MUCH better suited to acting as a combat unit as well- and in Battletech, that's really the idea at the end of the day, right? Good show by Moonsword to salvage a project that I was running into the ground. (If I'm honest, the support vehicle design rules were causing me a ton of problems, and I had to accept defeat and hand it off to less-inept hands)

Seriously though- if you aren't familiar with Glomar Explorer and the CIA operation to salvage the Soviet sub, stop what you're doing and read up on it. If Tom Clancy had written this one, no one would have listened to a word of it- truth really is stranger than fiction.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #4 on: 25 November 2015, 20:54:25 »
So many uses... [drool]

My only sadness regarding this ship is that it's too damned big. With a draft like that, when are you ever going to get to use those fluid guns on shore targets?

(My purpose is far more benign than usual, this time. That many hoses on one ship is just begging for history's biggest wet t-shirt party.)

As for what to do with this ship....it'd be quicker to try and list all of the things it can't do.

Also, before today, I'd never even heard of Azorian or Glomar Explorer. Talk about stranger than fiction! :o
« Last Edit: 25 November 2015, 21:01:21 by Weirdo »
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Moonsword

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #5 on: 25 November 2015, 21:40:46 »
I'll freely admit that I had to use a spreadsheet for sanity when I was doing the rough draft of the design.  I've done smaller support vehicles on paper but once you hit the number of variables involved in a large naval vessel, it's helpful to let a computer do some of the work of keeping track of your tonnages.  My placeholder name was actually "Glomar Explorer" but I had a proposal put to me that the ship needed guns.  I'm pretty satisfied with the outcome: enough armament to be credible as a surface combatant without going overboard and displacing all the other capabilities I was shoehorning into the hull.  My favorite bit is the arrangement of vehicle bays and the sheer range of options you can run out of one depending on what you're trying to achieve.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #6 on: 25 November 2015, 22:03:13 »
I need a chance to run a naval battle now. This baby is a task group by itself, which should make for an interesting afternoon.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #7 on: 25 November 2015, 22:32:11 »
Hmm...The only class of naval vessel known to be transported from one world to another on a regular basis is built by a bitter rival of the Dragon's, so we've got a good basis for a fight right there. Let's assume the the perfidious Davions knew that they were gonna have to kill a Wakamiya, and also knew that their air assets were going to be busy elsewhere, neutralized somehow, or otherwise unavailable. The details of the maguffin don't matter, so long as it prevents the use of a massive airstrike to end the fight right there, but does not disallow the use of air or aero units carried by the ships themselves. Now we can ask the question: How many Rapiers does it take to give a Wakamiya a decent fight?

And now for an even better question: Just how evil would a fleet be, consisting of a Lysander, some Wakamiyas, and maybe even a Triton or two thrown in for laughs?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #8 on: 26 November 2015, 01:11:55 »
I'd never even heard of Azorian or Glomar Explorer.
That is stranger than fiction.  :o

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #9 on: 26 November 2015, 03:44:47 »
Well, I had asked for one of the other surface ships many months ago- but this one is good!  Actually, I think when I asked this one was probably on the drawing board but not printed.

After another topic discussing the merits of a ship like this defending a planet . . . not sure enough ASF can be put on target to take this without removing the typical air cover for a invasion force we see after things get pared back.

As for a Waky vs Rapier fight . . . I think it will take 3 or 4 Rapiers though it will depend on what sort of escorts each brings.  For instance if the Davions bring some very fast VTOLs with TAG and load Copperheads the guns get more accurate but they will have to get through the Long Toms in AA . . . though it means they are not firing back.  If the Waky has subs in support then it can get really interesting though I know IRL theory on their use but not how they handle on a BT map (thermocline?).

My biggest problem with these huge fun ships is . . .

 . . . they are not available in MM yet afaik (PLEASE correct me).

Weirdo . . . you just need to put the Waky in either a shipping channel or maybe drydock.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #10 on: 26 November 2015, 04:34:54 »
An interesting vessel.
Just the right combination of guns and other capabilities to be useful in either role.
And really that's an important point given that we all want fluff and background, but if you can't somehow place it in a fight, that fluff will never happen.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #11 on: 26 November 2015, 06:54:16 »
A lovely article :) Great stuff about a ship I didn't even know existed.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #12 on: 26 November 2015, 10:24:53 »
After another topic discussing the merits of a ship like this defending a planet . . . not sure enough ASF can be put on target to take this without removing the typical air cover for a invasion force we see after things get pared back.

The question is, what priority would a Wakamiya be?  With only vehicle bays and a helipad it can't spot an air strike, just some VTOL raids.  And while powerful the Long Toms force it close to shore to engage.  It might be possible to leave this for later stages, where your air power isn't as critically needed elsewhere.  And maybe you shipped in some jump bombers and naval strike specialists to handle the mission.
« Last Edit: 27 November 2015, 11:10:21 by Nikas_Zekeval »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #13 on: 26 November 2015, 19:34:12 »
Great article. And a weird coincidence, because I literally learned about the Glomar Explorer one day before this article was posted.


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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #14 on: 28 November 2015, 00:50:02 »
First heard of the Glomar Explorer from reading the Hunt For Red October (still one of my favorite books), but hadn't expected an armed equivalent of it in BT. Definitely one scary sucker (Anything with triple LTs and nasty up-close defence is to be respected), and would be nice to have on a rescue mission when you don't want any competition.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #15 on: 28 November 2015, 16:44:25 »
The Wakamiya to me fiction wise is the all-purpose command ship, sail out of way of invaders if need be.
The mother ship that launched it's minions (smaller ships, aircraft) to handle small fries when it could put else to helping others.

Delivering cargo when there were no cargo ships available, given how this was built when colonies were being settled.

Thanks for making this Moonstone, Ben and even JadeHellbringer  :D (jk, how you did get out of that sealed Loki anyways?)

To bad Republic didn't get their own naval support ship, there was Landing Ship former Jonah Levin used to deploy his Atlas.  It was in Scorpion's Jar novel, where from a flood dock in back to amphibious assault a beach with pirate base.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #16 on: 28 November 2015, 16:57:09 »
Honestly, that could have been a modified Waky . . . dropping a mech through a moonpool would be pretty easy . . . especially if it did not have to come back that way.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #17 on: 28 November 2015, 19:30:34 »
Honestly, that could have been a modified Waky . . . dropping a mech through a moonpool would be pretty easy . . . especially if it did not have to come back that way.

Honestly, if it DOES need to, the whole idea to Glomar Explorer was to bring up objects from the ocean floor... manganese nodules, crashed submarines, etc.- bringing a 100 ton Mech up can't be TOO much of a stretch.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #18 on: 28 November 2015, 20:02:25 »
Oh sure, absolutely . . . heck the salvage equipment should be awesome for that purpose.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #19 on: 28 November 2015, 22:00:17 »
Honestly, if it DOES need to, the whole idea to Glomar Explorer was to bring up objects from the ocean floor... manganese nodules, crashed submarines, etc.- bringing a 100 ton Mech up can't be TOO much of a stretch.

The big difference is the GE was a CIA operation, covered as a civilian sea floor mining venture sponsored by Howard Hughes.  Thus it had to at least pass for civilian.  The Waky OTOH doesn't even pretend not to be part of the Dragon's Pillar of Steel.
« Last Edit: 28 November 2015, 23:48:05 by Nikas_Zekeval »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #20 on: 28 November 2015, 22:16:11 »
Were there any worlds the Dragon co-owned with the Terran Hegemony? A ship that could at least pretend to be hanging around for civilian reasons would have been useful there. More recently, I could see Wakamiyas on Nova Cat worlds. It'd be there to keep an eye on them, and it's possible the Cats would cease caring about a naval ship as soon as they're told it's a 'civilian' ship.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #21 on: 30 November 2015, 12:14:55 »
The big difference is the GE was a CIA operation, covered as a civilian sea floor mining venture sponsored by Howard Hughes.  Thus it had to at least pass for civilian.  The Waky OTOH doesn't even pretend not to be part of the Dragon's Pillar of Steel.

How does that affect its ability to bring a Mech up from the ocean floor? I'm not arguing that it needs to disguise itself- why bother? My point is that if you want to use it as an amphib platform, it's a great choice for the job. Even the 'Musashi' I'd been designing, despite its paltry weaponry, was never intended to disguise itself as something else- it was a military unit that simply wasn't armed to the teeth.

Let's be honest here, the Dragon has never been particularly subtle. They usually don't need to be, particularly when it comes to how they run their own worlds.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #22 on: 07 December 2015, 09:20:27 »
For fun and all, here's the initial interview I'd done that sparked the discussion between Hellbie and I. Consider this the birthplace of the Waky.

http://www.welovedc.com/2012/09/12/azorian-and-the-cia-visit-the-spy-museum/
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #23 on: 09 December 2015, 08:51:44 »
I just realized that the Fluid Guns + Inferno Gel Ammo = boarding party nightmare. Even that neat Sea Fox scuba suit would have a hard time with this.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #24 on: 09 December 2015, 10:23:03 »
Against frogmen or surface ships delivering boarders, yes. Using them directly on battlesuits, not so much. With two fluid guns per arc(and I'm not sure if the arcs overlap), you can't achieve the minimum three inferno hits needed to kill a battlesuit. You'd be better off seeing if you can use inferno and/or oil slick ammo to light a fire on the hexes next to you, since few boarding boats are immune to fire damage. It would also force scuba or swimming battlesuits to try and hit the ship below the waterline, where they can be engaged by the SRT racks.

Or, the Wakamiya could simply move off once they've bailed out of their boats. Takes a while to build up speed, but once you get going, you can sail a lot faster than any troops can swim.

I wonder how many Gossamer drones a Wakamiya usually carries? It can fly twelve at a time, but those things are so small that it doesn't really need to use vee bays for em. Even solar airships have to land eventually, so if it carries another dozen or two, it can keep a full complement soft at all times.

Finally, imagine a post-Jihad refit that adds mech cubicles, so the ship can have a permanent complement of Spindrifts or Hatamoto-Kaerus. :)

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #25 on: 11 December 2015, 06:32:46 »
Here's a silly question - the Dracs have that UMU-equipped Hatamoto-Kaeru.  Can a Wakamiya run 'Mechs as well?
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #26 on: 11 December 2015, 06:40:17 »
Well, look at the post just above you. So no.
Though you could just dump them out the cargo door, I suppose.
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Weirdo

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #27 on: 11 December 2015, 09:26:31 »
What he said. The shop has bulk cargo to spare, but pulling even a single Hatamoto Frog out of the cargo bay and prepping it for action is gonna take a lot longer than is practical during a game, nor will you have the benefit of a cube's repair facilities.

That being said, I think having a few on hand is still a good idea. Make sure you have some retired DCMS mechjocks on your crew so you have someone to drive em, and you've got a group of highly useful two-handed machines for shallow water operations, as well as an additional group of troops that can strike inland if needed.

Hmmm...that actually sounds like a fun scenario force. A lance of Frogs with VTOL and hover support(maybe some infantry as well), all backed up by artillery support from the mothership.

And then there's the amphibious vees the DC got in 3145... >:D
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"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #28 on: 11 December 2015, 11:47:03 »
Yeah, I was thinking something like "could you add 'Mech cradles" or even just assign a lance or two to operate WITH the thing, but not be stationed aboard perhaps.  It would certainly be one brutally funny surprise for someone expecting the local equivalent of a Neptune, then hearing 'oh my god we're being boarded by a 10m tall iron sea monkey.'
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Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Weirdo

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer
« Reply #29 on: 11 December 2015, 12:00:39 »
...and now I'm tempted to paint a Hatamoto-Chi like that...
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll