'Mech of the Week: Koshi (Standard)

[Empyrus]

Removed until further notice.

[Scotty]

The Koshi is the Dark Age Commando on six different kinds of steroids.  If you think about it like that, you've already figured out how to use it.

I really question the supposition that ClanTech is genuinely harder to maintain than Inner Sphere tech clear into the Dark Ages.  I'm reasonably certain that the difficulty modifier in previous eras represented the difficulty in finding or machining spare parts.  After 3100 that concern should be nigh non-existent, especially with Sea Foxes so aggressively pushing 'Mech and materiel into everyone's hands who can afford it.

[Empyrus]

Well, i'd assume it isn't so easy in 3090s yet. Also, the Diamond Sharks can't be everywhere and i doubt the Spheroids can really manufacture Clan-spec Endo-Steel (probably the most difficult component to replace). But then logistics in BT rarely make any sense so... whatever.

Anyway, i completely forgot that the 'Mech is quite similar to the Commando. Good comparison. Certainly beats every Commando variant i can think off.

Oh, and: How's the Koshi in Alpha Strike?

[Scotty]

I'm actually covering the Koshi in my Alpha Strike Mech of the Week on Sunday, so I hope you'll forgive me if I wait a few days before answering. ;D

EDIT: They're pretty good, I'll say that much.  There's an error on the Koshi 3, though, because if it actually has MASC that's not reflected in the card.

[Empyrus]

Nice timing  ;D

[SteelRaven]

Koshi is a nice trooper for a light mech, the 2 might have more appeal for Clan Duels, I have a feeling the 3 may have been inspired by the Wasp 1W that made for a excellent light mech/infantry  hunter during the SW.

[Weirdo]

I see the Koshi being very well-suited to the Dark Age. Any mech is seen by the public as a threat, but even in this age one as small as a Koshi still isn't all that worrisome. So it doesn't look all that scary(so no getting hunted down by random Knights, or twitchy militias), but with a weapons load like that, you can still do some pretty nice damage to most conventional units. I like the ARAD suggestion, that would make for a very nice scout hunter...

[Orin J.]

The Koshi is the Dark Age Commando on six different kinds of steroids.  If you think about it like that, you've already figured out how to use it.

So be an absolute bastard at all times and take any mention of fair play as a personal insult?  ;D

[Empyrus]

I like the ARAD suggestion, that would make for a very nice scout hunter...

I figure ARADs kinda fly under most people's radar, being TacOps munitions. Everyone knows T-Augs though...

Though i made a slight mistake, they aren't suitable for general work since they have to-hit penalty against a target with no electronics... IIRC.

EDIT Actually, i found something that may need errata. ARADs suffer penalties vs targets with no electronics listed in their rule entry. The problem is, the list includes Communication Equipment as 1 ton or more. All 'Mechs and combat vees are ruled to have one ton of integral com equipment so the penalty would not apply against them, making them very good standard use missiles.
This would not be a problem if there hadn't been this "'Mechs and CVs have integral com equipment" ruling... and i can't recall why that was made.

[glitterboy2098]

the short ranged weapons are probably a side effect of how wizkids designed their figures stats.. they evidently had some arcane system to convert a design from BT to their clixbase stuff, according to their claims, so they designed a unit in rough form, then converted it. most likely a lot of fudging was involved, IMO.

but they clearly had specific results in mind, and with the Koshi being on the lower end of the 'true battlemechs' with cheaper points and not all that impressive stats, they probably stuck to the shorter range guns to avoid it becoming too good in clix form.

to be honest though, now that Catalyst is taking the old wizkids stuff and expanding on it i'm surprised we never got a variant with longer ranged guns. the Koshi Omnimech had the Prime with its LRM10, the B config with ERML's for example, or the C config with an ERLL. or even the D with it's UAC2.

the standard battlemech version, even if you don't touch the Probe and LTAG, has more than enough room to fit some longer ranged weapon options in for a variant. and given its thinner armor for the period, you'd expect the buyers to be looking for a chance to keep their mech at a distance.

[Scotty]

An ATM-6 on each arm would honestly do it pretty well.

[marauder648]

Great write up :) I've not used one but yeah totally agree, its a Commando that went and got all hepped up on steroids.  One question I do have though.

How do you pronounce this things name?  Is it Ko-shi (as in yoshi with a K) Or is it Ko-schi where you pronounce the C?  I'd assume its Ko-shi.

[roosterboy]

It was later republished with Dark Age Turning Points: Liao with art by Brent Evans (see it here) in 2011, and finally gained a TRO entry in Technical Readout: 3145 Mercenaries in 2013 (Sarna.net does note something about a BattleCorps mini-TRO but I don't know anything about that).

That was a TRO-style writeup that was done as an exclusive extra for BattleCorps to accompany the release of DATP Liao. There was one done for the DA Black Hawk too. They were later used as the basis for the TR3145 writeups.

[JadeHellbringer]

I'll speak in defense of the Koshi 2, the one with the Streak racks.

Yes, the flexibility loss from switching away from standard SRMs is unfortunate- no question. But the range gain is significant- and against many opponents, it gives you a safe zone. Think how many units, even in 3150, still rely on weapons like the medium laser, the SRM rack, class-20 ACs, etc.- a maximum range of 9, and even then it's wild shots until about range 6. The Streaks though reach out to 12, and while they're struggling to find a lock that far out they also aren't wasting shots at that range either. Combined with the Koshi's speed and jumping, that means a Mech that can race around spitting SRM harassment at targets where they may struggle to respond due to range and movement modifiers. Is it ideal? Hell no, this Mech honestly sucks on toast.  But it isn't quite the dog the article suggests, either- just sub-optimal. Think of it as a great way to immobilize heavy tanks (such a big threat in the Dark Age era, with its emphasis on combined arms warfare), or the unit you send into the backfield to make those enemy JES carriers worry about their comfy LRM-launching position... and, let's be real, not worry about whether it makes it home or not.

[Weirdo]

I imagine the Streaks are also a lifesaver when you have to deal with the rapidly increasing numbers of battlesuits and conventional troops that do most of their shooting with 9-hex guns. Even if you get closer than the 10-12 safe zone, 7-8 hexes is a good place to be, where you've only got medium range mods, but their guns are at long...and aren't Streak.

[Empyrus]

The BV jumps by nearly 200 while losing considerable amount of flexibility. I regard the Koshi's flexibility as its primary attraction (utility, spotting, reconnaissance), and the Streak variant doesn't really offer that. Better striker 'Mech perhaps.. but for that, i'd probably choose something else.

[Weirdo]

Exactly. Take the base model when you want a general purpose ride for any occasion. Take a 2 when you want a dedicated damage-dealing platform. Take a 3 when you're in a city and don't want all the collateral damage that missile explosions will bring(to say nothing of EOD afterwards), and pray the other guy didn't bring any reflec battlesuits.

[JadeHellbringer]

While pondering the Streak vs. standard question earlier, I decided to explore a way to gain an even greater range advantage... via a switch to LRMs. I stuck with the Koshi 2 setup, removing the Streaks, and promptly went about installing twin LRM-10s with three tons of ammo as the main weaponry. That in turn prompted a laugh when I realized that I came full-circle on the design's origins and had effectively created a Sling IIC.

[Empyrus]

4xLRM-5 might be slightly better for utility, allow an extra ton of ammo (or returning the Active Probe).

I originally intended to compare the standard Koshi to the Sling, note that it is similar but with SRMs rather than LRMs but i couldn't work that into text reasonably. Kinda pointless anyway.

I wouldn't say no to LRM-armed Koshi.

[Scotty]

ATM-6s please. :)

[Weirdo]

4xLRM-5 might be slightly better for utility, allow an extra ton of ammo (or returning the Active Probe).

I originally intended to compare the standard Koshi to the Sling, note that it is similar but with SRMs rather than LRMs but i couldn't work that into text reasonably. Kinda pointless anyway.

I wouldn't say no to LRM-armed Koshi.

I certainly wouldn't kick one of those out of bed for eating crackers on the crushed remains of my bed, bedroom, house, etc...

[JadeHellbringer]

4xLRM-5 might be slightly better for utility, allow an extra ton of ammo (or returning the Active Probe).

I originally intended to compare the standard Koshi to the Sling, note that it is similar but with SRMs rather than LRMs but i couldn't work that into text reasonably. Kinda pointless anyway.

I wouldn't say no to LRM-armed Koshi.

You're right about the LRM-5s, of course (and even more Sling-like, to boot), but after thinking more about this the Arbalest is available in this era and does the job better (if slower) by packing the twenty-missile 'good morning' package plus a pair of those wonderful Clan ER medium lasers- bonus points for it being available to anyone who can rub two coins together. Just buy an Arbalest and leave your Koshis for... er, whatever one uses a Koshi for.

[Empyrus]

ATM-6s please. :)

Nope. Not enough weight without extensive changes. Stripping all the equipment from Koshi leaves 8.5 tons of space. Twin ATM-6s would eat 7 tons.

Copying the Mist Lynx E might be possible. Strip the AP and you can have single ATM-6 with three tons of ammo and quad ER Small Lasers, or twin ER Mediums.

Twin ATM-3s with 3 tons of ammo would work and leave space for an Active Probe, Light TAG and maybe a medium laser but... eh.

ATMs aren't really a good fit for light 'Mechs, especially if you want all the ammo options.

[Scotty]

Honestly I'd accept one that dropped the jumpjets to do it.

[glitterboy2098]

since too much more discussion about possible new varisnts is likely to get us chewed out by a moderator, i created a thread.

Motw: Koshi (Battlemech) design thread

[Nahuris]

Thing is, it has the quirk modular weapons --- I can see a variant of the original having 4 LRM5's ---- as that would be the same weight as the 4 SRM4's.
The thing is, though, this is not a stand alone unit --- I see it as supporting fast cav operations -- so you send it in with your SM1 hover tanks, and other fast units, like Blades, or similar. It provides either the extra armor sanding, or crit seeking needed, without being threatening enough that other people will make it a priority target. Or, it bodyguards your bigger designs from fast hover tanks or fast attack vehicles, with it's ability to provide numerous motive hits. Even the Streak version would be good for that, as it gets both more range, and hits with all missiles, when it does lock on. One of these roaming your backfield can deal with all kinds of flanking attacks, or other surprises, while the big guns face forward.

Nahuris

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

the short ranged weapons are probably a side effect of how wizkids designed their figures stats.. they evidently had some arcane system to convert a design from BT to their clixbase stuff, according to their claims, so they designed a unit in rough form, then converted it. most likely a lot of fudging was involved, IMO.

but they clearly had specific results in mind, and with the Koshi being on the lower end of the 'true battlemechs' with cheaper points and not all that impressive stats, they probably stuck to the shorter range guns to avoid it becoming too good in clix form.

That wasn't a problem for them with other mechs.  I mean, they gave the Jupiter a pathetic range of 6 for its pair of Clan ER PPCs.  I suspect that the Koshi just wasn't given a lot of effort.

[Fat Guy]

I seem to remember Koshis with a 2" ranged attack that were virtually useless in one of the expansions.

And WizKids wondered where their player base went...

[cavingjan]

Aah. Flavio. I'd have to check but think it was the Koshi that only had heavy small lasers.

In case people hadn't noticed, WK tended to usethe medium range as the long range value.

[Colt Ward]

The Koshi 3 is a attempt to build a Phantom H, but with a Light TAG.  I really wish we had gone for the Supercharger rather than MASC as I think that would have given more weight to other things but I am away from HMP so I cannot be sure.

For the ERSL comparison . . . its the BV difference that Heavy Smalls brings you for the damage that makes the difference.  The other thing is that the Heavy Smalls when they require 2 hits are more likely to get internal to give those Crit rolls backstabbers love.  Those of us who like to play with a Fire Moth H or Phantom H would feel right at home taking a Koshi H in the Dark Ages since the other 2 are less likely to be available.

As for the 2, I think JHB raises a excellent point . . . when it comes to a combined arms brawl the Koshi should be firing at 12 & 11 or 8 & 7 hexes against vehicles as a primary target.  Using their mobility to dance around at those ranges from their target and hopefully longer against others it uses the advantage of the Streaks against the regular 9 hex range damage of classic weapons.  Since they are Streaks you do not waste ammo and they are perfect as a skirmisher- keeping their distance to ding enemies.  If the disciplne is maintained (or no great opportunities came the Koshi's way) then it can enter the fray to finish mechs or tanks the main combantants do not want/need to spend time against.  If the enemy broke or fell back in retreat then they can maintain that pressure by harrying them at that 12&11 range . . . maybe picking something off if the enemy is forced to keep that retreat.  They would also be ideal to pick off any mech retreating by itself when using Forced Withdraw rules.