Author Topic: Come and get your system coordinates!  (Read 10115 times)

Bad_Syntax

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Come and get your system coordinates!
« on: 23 August 2011, 20:56:56 »
I have seen many people, including myself, beg for new system coordinates, especially with the *hundreds* of new systems on the handbook maps.  Well, I blew my own life away, and went through every single map every published and typed in every single system name, who owned it, and in most cases the various political regions the system was located in.  I then took the full 3075 map in one of the jihad books, opened it in Adobe Illustrator, and since it was a single big map I manually clicked on every single planet and typed in its .1 LY accurate coordinates.  I then went through the other few hundred systems, typed in the new worlds, and took a couple existing worlds to translate where the new coordinates are.  I only typed in worlds from maps where the entire faction was mapped out, even if I could combine maps to get an entire faction, if it wasn't all on 1 map I skipped it (there were scaling and some other issues with many of the maps, so I erred on the side of caution).

The 3075 map is accurate to .001 LY, with the others perhaps up to .05 LY off, though in many cases far less.  The clan worlds are +/- a bit more, as I had to use WoR to determine where the clan homeworlds were in relation to the inner sphere.  From there I was able to get the HL/NC coordinates.  Jarnfolk coordinates were also pretty close, as they had Alfirk on their maps and it matched up with existing silouhettes nearly perfectly.  You can see the less accurate coordinates as they go out to up to 7 decimal places, while accurate ones are usually only 2-3.  They are still *very* close though.

Aian Nepomuceno has helped me a lot in finding typos (there was over 40,000 system names I typed in, some were BOUND to happen!) and worlds that were renamed. 

There are 2972 unique systems.

Now the bad news....

I didn't have the HBHK yet, so I can't say I have complete maps for very many eras.  In fact, the only complete maps I have are:
2571
2596
3040
3050
3052
3057
3063
3075
3130

3079 will be complete with the RIS/Clan handbooks come out, and almost all the maps complete once the HBHK comes out.

I enclosed an index file, to specify what the factions are (like LC=Lyran Commonwealth, CJF=Clan Jade Falcon, etc).

I also have 300 or so of these systems detailed out with canon data (star type, atmosphere, random maps, etc), though that data isn't in these files, I'll have another post for those, as I wrote the code to "fill in the blanks", so they won't be 100% canon.

Some explanations:
(Clan) at the end of a name is a clan world
(Periphery) at the end of a name is a deep periphery world
(Jarnfolk) at the end of a name is a jarnfolk world
A system with another name after, like "Austerlitz (Scauld 3130+)" represents a system that had a new name, first noticed in 3130 in this case.
Some systems have another system name in parenthesis, without a year, this is typically a nickname/alternate name of the system, or perhaps a planet in the system
Ownership for a year being a "-" means nobody owned it that year, it wasn't on the map at all.
A world with a faction in parenthesis, like "Camlann (DC)" and "Camlann (FWL)" represent 2 systems with the same name.  I think these may end up getting changed to coreward, spinward, etc later, but it helps acknowledge which system is which.

The index file is tab delimited (open with excel, open office, etc).  It has the code for the faction, the long name, and 3 numbers.  The numbers are the RGB values that I was using in my own map renderings.  If you create a better color palette I'd be very happy to use it (I thought the maps at http://ourbattletech.com looked better, but only had a few colors).

You can plug this data into the CBT Cartographer I wrote a while back (download from the link in my profile) and render maps, plot jump routes, whatever, though it needs a serious update.

I will try to come out with maps soon with 10 LY hexes, to match the "ISW:Combat" scale in the core rulebook primer, in anticipation of IO, though at that scale I believe over 100 hexes have 2+ systems within them (7.5 LY/Hex dropped that number down to 20 or so IIRC).  I made an online map a while back that didn't have this data at http://goodsects.gotdns.com/ZoomMap/3025_Small.html that I could update it people like it.

We are still working on this, but it should be in a usable state if you wanted to create a map or plot a jump course.

I have not checked this against the 3025 data, which I actually have all entered in, as those original coordinates are completely deprecated at this point, and essentially useless (according to official sources too!)

Now, if you decide to use this, and find *any* errors in *any* way, *please* let us know.  While I am pretty sure its typo free at this point, there could be a system that was renamed that we missed, or that changed actual locations on maps (yeah, it has happened).  I will try and keep it updated for all, and as I finish new eras I'll update the file for everybody.  It would suck if everybody started pumping out their own versions everywhere, and the data got basically corrupted.

UPDATED:  New coordinates *only* in attached Systems.txt file.  Some names have changed too.
UPDATED:  Apparently the previous systems.txt file was blank, sorry, here is the corrected one!
« Last Edit: 26 August 2011, 11:23:25 by Bad_Syntax »
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VoltAmpere

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #1 on: 23 August 2011, 21:13:24 »
alright it's finally up! standby for more eras as they become available! GJ syntax!

Bad_Syntax

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #2 on: 23 August 2011, 23:07:08 »
The first error, there is an "Altoona" system in the wacky extension between LC/FWL on the 2786/2822 map (and the 2750 RWR map), but no other.  I added it at -256.408, -6.324.  The system isn't on any maps after 2822 or before 2750, so it apparently wasn't a very nice place to live :)
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VoltAmpere

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #3 on: 23 August 2011, 23:33:58 »
you will notice there are some systems that are "-" from start to finish.

short explanation, these worlds were undiscovered prior to 2596 (or later) and subsequently lost or abandoned by 3040 (or earlier).

An example would be Aboukir, which only appeared in the RWR map in 2750 and was subsequently gone by 3025.

Paint it Pink

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #4 on: 24 August 2011, 03:28:20 »
Well done for all the hard work you've put in to this project.
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Dmon

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #5 on: 24 August 2011, 05:48:38 »
Have you thought about joining the BTWiki Project Planets?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets

They are currently doing a massive overhaul of the entire planet list and I am sure a lot of your info and theirs would end up the same anyway.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets/Planet_Overhaul
Sarna.net - the BattleTechWiki

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

Feel free to help.

Bad_Syntax

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #6 on: 24 August 2011, 08:11:22 »
Have you thought about joining the BTWiki Project Planets?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets

They are currently doing a massive overhaul of the entire planet list and I am sure a lot of your info and theirs would end up the same anyway.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleTechWiki:Project_Planets/Planet_Overhaul

I've been in tough with em on it, never saw that page though.  From what I've seen on it, we may have almost done nearly all the work :)  I figured Revanche would chime in on this about it, as he spoke with me about the coordinates recently and I sent him an early copy.
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VoltAmpere

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #7 on: 24 August 2011, 08:26:27 »
Coolness, I actually got to reach Bad_Syntax through a message in Project Planets of Sarna... talk about going full circle. I think the issue with sarna is that the coordinates Syntax got are not officially canon even though the sources are as canon as mathematically possible. (the formulas still gives me nightmares lol)

I'm currently working with Syntax on identifying which faction and region a system belongs to in some of the major years. Sources would be the various full and partial IS maps, and fiction where map data on ownership is not available (ie Clan homeworlds pre-3067)

If you guys would like to lend a hand, then maybe we could finish this before someone actually invents Myomer :D

Revanche

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #8 on: 24 August 2011, 12:08:57 »
I've been in tough with em on it, never saw that page though.  From what I've seen on it, we may have almost done nearly all the work :)  I figured Revanche would chime in on this about it, as he spoke with me about the coordinates recently and I sent him an early copy.

I'm here! Sorry I'm late to the game.
 
These coordinates are just what the community needed, since the old House book ones are error-prone and invalid. As Øystein stated here, not only are the original coordinates non-canon, but they haven't been used in so long because they would have invalidated every map made up to and since then.
 
Øystein has gone to great lengths to base his maps on FASA's and by doing so has brought a lot of continuity to what could have become a train wreck. He's indicated that his maps are not coordinate based, but derived (I presume) from master images, so Bad_Syntax's efforts here have translated those graphical positions into a coordinate system that replicates (without the errors!) the one we've come to recognize and at the exact light-years scale. Now, we have the option of doing our own jump paths using his coordinates by hand or his (soon-to-be updated) own CBT Cartographer program.
 
As for Sarna, we have debated whether or not we could use these, since they are a non-canon metasource, but decided the value to the CBT community over-rode the non-canon concerns. Especially in light of the fact that there is no more precise source of coordinates than those provided by Bad_Syntax. Our stance on the waiver granted to Bad_Syntax's extrapolation method is found here and every coordinate dervived from it will be marked accordingly, so that the readers can decide for themselves if they want to rely on them. (The coordinates in use right now on Sarna are the older, flawed ones from FASA and will be replaced incrementally.)
 
Great job, Bad_Syntax and VoltAmpere. Great addition to the fan support of BattleTech.

Centurion

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #9 on: 24 August 2011, 12:14:14 »
Thanks for the hard work B_S  8)
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Davout73

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #10 on: 24 August 2011, 12:31:08 »
There's a small issue when opening with open office, it takes planets with a space in them and moves the second name over a cell, then moves the following cells over as well.

So, in excel A Place looks fine:

System   X   Y   2571   2596   3040   3050   3052   3057   3063   3075   3130
A Place   -123.67   274.12   -   -   LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2   LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2   LC,Tamar March,Pandora Operational Area,Region 1   LC,Arc-Royal Theater   LA,Pandora Theater,Arc-Royal Defense Cordon   LA,Arc-Royal Theater   D

But in Open Office its

System   X   Y   2571   2596   3040   3050   3052   3057   3063   3075   3130
A           Place   -123.67   274.12   -   -   LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2   LC,Tamar March,Benfled Operational Area,Region 2   LC,Tamar March,Pandora Operational Area,Region 1   LC,Arc-Royal Theater   LA,Pandora Theater,Arc-Royal Defense Cordon   LA,Arc-Royal Theater   D

May be a PBKAC error on my end, or I am doing something wrong with Open Office, either way I thought I'd put it out there.

Good work Syntax, this imports into a shapefile very well.

Davout
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So, You Want a Map for Your Game:
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Revanche

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #11 on: 24 August 2011, 12:34:12 »
Good work Syntax, this imports into a shapefile very well.

Shapefile?

Davout73

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #12 on: 24 August 2011, 12:42:12 »
A shapefile is a basic vector data format used in geographic information system software.  Lets you display information geographically.
ArcGIS is probabaly the most common software, with Syntax's file I can import it, then plot by the X,Y coordinates, and go from there.

For my Fed Suns Alt Universe I am using ARC to create the maps, and I know the maps on ourbattletech.com are done in ARC as well, i received most of my files from the guy who did them there, I am totally having a brain cramp and forgetting his name.

But, as an example of what you can do, see attached.

Each planet is a point that can be moved.  Each line can be redrawn, or moved.  Each border is comprised of a bunch of vertices that can be moved to reflect planet ownership and the like.  That image is probably 5 layer files, each of which can be turned on or of depending on what you want to do.

Ourbattletech.com has a ton more exam0ples of what a good GIS user can do.

I am still in the walk phase myself...



Shapefile?
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
So, You Want a Map for Your Game:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51565
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Revanche

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #14 on: 24 August 2011, 13:46:08 »
That is phenomenal!
 
The keyboard symbols are a bit odd for icon use, but I presume there is a technical reason for that.
 
However, the map is simply incredible. If that's your skills at the walk stage...
 
Now I'm even more impressed by what Bad_Syntax's extrapolated coordinates bring to the fans.

Davout73

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #15 on: 24 August 2011, 15:23:08 »
Thanks Kwic.

The name you are looking for is Blacknova, and he does wonders with ArcGIS.
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http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
So, You Want a Map for Your Game:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51565
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Davout73

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #16 on: 24 August 2011, 15:27:53 »
In talking with my wife, whose the Graphic Artist in the family, a lot of what is done in ARC can also be done in Illustrator, in fact either program can use .eps files...I suspect the maps Oystein does are in Illustrator, but I've never asked.

Davout
Kiiro no Torii, a Battletech AU, found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7316.0.html
Interview with a Mercenary, found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,319.0.html
So, You Want a Map for Your Game:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51565
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VoltAmpere

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #17 on: 24 August 2011, 17:31:13 »
There's a small issue when opening with open office, it takes planets with a space in them and moves the second name over a cell, then moves the following cells over as well.

encountered that before. try to open the file in notepad, copy the whole lot and then paste it in excel, should work for you :)

Bad_Syntax

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #18 on: 24 August 2011, 18:20:43 »
There's a small issue when opening with open office, it takes planets with a space in them and moves the second name over a cell, then moves the following cells over as well.

I'd try the notepad copy/paste too, it is probably as the CSV isn't copying quotes around the name, so open office is treating a space like a comma... wacky :(

Thanks for all the positive feedback folks, it was a *lot* of work!  Heck, it ain't even done yet, I still gotta update my Cartographer to give ya'll a good and dynamic mapping solution.  I'll try to work on it, and inputting more eras, over the next few days and weekend assuming the wife lets me! :)
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Bad_Syntax

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #19 on: 12 September 2011, 09:44:10 »
I have made some pretty significant updates to the list, mostly to names and adding a few Kurita systems that we don't have maps for yet.

From now on these files will be kept updated on my website (well the server in my house, teehee).  I'll have version info within them, and update them whenever I do any changes.

The files are available at:
http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Systems.txt
http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Systems_Complete.txt
http://goodsects.gotdns.com/Factions.txt
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mikecj

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #20 on: 12 September 2011, 10:26:47 »
Thanks!
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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #21 on: 12 September 2011, 16:16:00 »
That is some impressive work   O0

I wish I had that kind of time or devotion  ;)
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I am Belch II

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #22 on: 12 September 2011, 19:38:19 »
Thats a awesome sheet. Nice Job!!!
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VoltAmpere

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #23 on: 18 January 2012, 05:33:51 »
Heh, looks like this post has been dead a long time... time to do a little bit of necromancy!

I've attached a list of updated coordinates based off of Bad_Syntax's work, but instead of using the 3075 Jihad Map I used the 3130 MW:DA map as base and then consolidated coordinates from the other partial and two-page maps into the base of 3130. I've expanded the list to contain 3,009 known systems [past and present] including the Chainelane Isles [thanks again Oystein for finally releasing that piece of jewel]

Caveat:

1) coordinates are NOT canon and should not be treated as such, despite being extrapolated from the excellent work of Oystein
2) coordinates assumes that X and Y scales are uniform (ie: follows 120 LY / 167.517pixels derived from the PDF)
3) i intentionally left out the Dark Nebula and Caliban Nebula... I dunno why, I just did haha
4) near and outer periphery worlds (JarnFolk, Hanseatic League, Nueva Castile, Clan Worlds, way stations, etc...) are based on the WoR 3067 mini-map, whose Y-axis scale is also assumed to be equal to the X-axis 400LY scale.
5) the list is a work in progress, we're still hoping Handbook: House Kurita comes out and gives us more systems to add to our list.
6) This work was started by Bad_Syntax who's now doing other stuff. Method of capturing the on-page coordinates is credited to him. The formula for integrating those coordinates into one map is mine, and is open to anyone who wants to know [have an excel file that shows how this was done stashed somewhere that I can pass around to interested auditors]

I know there are a lot of people in the community interested in getting coordinates, so here they are. I just ask that those guys run this through their map-generating apps and verify if I have the coordinates right within about 1-2% accuracy, and to toss any errors or corrections my way.

As an aside, I'm also working on the faction ownership of those 3,009 systems from the founding of the FWL up to 3130, but I have a lot of gaps here and there where map data is not available. I would like to ask for help in going through fluff that would be able to identify who owns what when for about 25+ milestone years. Anyone interested in getting their heads to ache can PM me. All information generated will be freely available to the community for whatever reason they may use it.

VoltAmpere

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #24 on: 22 January 2012, 00:15:29 »
Minor update:

correct coordinates for Caledea is [-283.313, 215.572]. The coordinates listed in the txt file actually belong to Caldrea.

Thanks to Bad_Syntax for finding the error.

Frabby

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #25 on: 22 January 2012, 04:01:17 »
I think the entry for Jardine is arguable when it says "(Herakleion 2822+)".
Jardine wasn't really renamed, it was mixed up with another (real) world named Herakleion that was lost by then and is unmapped so far, but presumably lies near Jardine.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #26 on: 22 January 2012, 04:33:14 »
Very Nice!!! O0
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TS_Hawk

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #27 on: 22 January 2012, 05:06:00 »
you should send this to the guys over at megamek too :P

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roosterboy

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #28 on: 22 January 2012, 05:12:17 »
I think the entry for Jardine is arguable when it says "(Herakleion 2822+)".
Jardine wasn't really renamed, it was mixed up with another (real) world named Herakleion that was lost by then and is unmapped so far, but presumably lies near Jardine.

No, Jardine was renamed Herakleion and then lost. There was no other world named Herakleion.

Manne

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Re: Come and get your system coordinates!
« Reply #29 on: 22 January 2012, 10:25:05 »
I just stumble upon this thread and try to get the list into the CBT Cartographer, but it won´t work. Did anyone get this two things together so that you can see these great list in a better form?

Oh and no I don´t get the CBT Cartographer in anyway runing under a win 7 system.