MOTW Assassin

[Martius]

Guys, what is it with this name obsession? You don't want your Mechwarriors try to wield their Warhammers literally, do you?  :D

Anyway- I like the Assassin as it is fast and offers me what I like most: options. Staying at long range, plinking away with that LRM 5 can be very annoying (especially if its targets are tanks hit on their sides) and sometimes forces an opponent to invest ressources trying to hunt it down.
It can also close in for some backstabbing again more to annoy than to kill.

Most of the time opponents will try to hit more dangerous, slower foes so my Assassins usually survive their battles.

They are a cheap way to get a highly mobile unit onto the battlefield that serves as Harasser as well as as Backstabber.

[billtfor3]

The Assassin is great for getting into the rear arc, on slower designs, and staying there until its target dies or until you break something else off from your force to run it off.  Then it goes off to hunt some other slow poke.  Using 4/5 pilots means for high target modifiers to be hit in intro tech.  Latter eras it needs more armor due to increased range and pulse tech.

[Jellico]

a light ‘Mech hunter-killer, which I presume means “Killing bugs”,

Assassin Beetle?

[Getz]

A friend of mine has modified an Assassin with a second LRM5 in place of the SRM pack.  He uses it as missile support for his Spectres.  Seems to work pretty well...

[billtfor3]

A friend of mine has modified an Assassin with a second LRM5 in place of the SRM pack.  He uses it as missile support for his Spectres.  Seems to work pretty well...

That's one of the mods we did to one in a campaign.  Add a second LRM 5 sharing the ammo with the other and add a Medium Laser.  A couple soften up barrages as we closed, and 2 ML to finish it.  Very handy against Lights and also effective against Mediums.  Against things that out gunned you.  Your way faster and can break contact with ease.

[Kit deSummersville]

That's one of the mods we did to one in a campaign.  Add a second LRM 5 sharing the ammo with the other and add a Medium Laser.  A couple soften up barrages as we closed, and 2 ML to finish it.  Very handy against Lights and also effective against Mediums.  Against things that out gunned you.  Your way faster and can break contact with ease.

Where do you get the extra ton for the second laser? Jump jets?

[Fireangel]

The 21 is greatly underappreciated; it works extremely well in combination with dirt-common 'mechs of the 3025 era. If you see it as a "heavy light" instead of a "light medium" you'll appreciate its capabilities more.

[billtfor3]

Where do you get the extra ton for the second laser? Jump jets?

Magic?  Actually I was thinking it had a second ML but now, I may have to look back at the sheet, or maybe it was the backstabber we made that had 2 SRM2s and 2 MLs I'm confused with.

[Paul]

I lub the wee Assassin. It can always get where I want it to be. Add some special ammo (IE, smoke for the LRMs and inferno for the SRM2) and you really hurt people's feelings.
As with most swift, but fragile Lights / Mediums, you just can't send em out alone and expect good things to happen. They thrive when there's other threats apparent and immediate to the enemy force. When the enemy has to decide whether to deal with the main enemy line, or those pesky ASN's darting about at high TN's. This'll usually cause him to reduce how much firepower is sent their way, and will often make it more likely the ASN has rear armor to exploit.

I know mods are usually frowned upon in these discussions, but will gather some ire anyway: a mod I make myself in 3025 settings is dropping all weapons in favor of a RA-mounted Large Laser. It's a fun design, but it immediately displays the stealth-benefits of the ASN-23. The LL-equipped one definitely attracts a bunch of attention. The -23 has a much easier time getting people to discount it's threat potential.
(So, I actually had a reason to bring up the mod that's germane to the -23)

The 101 amuses me for the same reason the -W Wasp does, but those 2 missing JJs are sorely missed. I'd sacrifice almost anything else to keep them.

Paul

[Iron Mongoose]

I also tend to agree that the Assassin is pretty under apprecated and under rated.  Yes, its mainly under rated because its rated a 1 when its really a 4, and even the best mechs in that role are 2s or 3s in that era, but still.

As has been aptly pointed out, if you want a 7/11/7 mech in that era, the Assassin and Spider are the key choices, and while the Spider has its advantages (its a bit faster, and with two lasers it hits harder in close and has no ammo woes) the Assassin is a perficly competitive choice, adding in the ability to hit at range, and with better crit seeking and better heat managment vs the Spider, along with the better armor.  So, if you need a mech that is fast that you just want to have to cause trouble, then the Assassin is a great choice.  Because it can position itself very effectively, and because with its +1 TMM realitive to mechs that only jump 6 or run 9, it can get closer to enemy mechs more safely, and employ its minimal weapons quite well.  Relitive to a lot of comperable 6/9/6 mechs that seem to be more powerful, the Assassin is likely to do nearly as much damage, and to the right mechs at the right time in battle.  People look at the PHawk or Vulcan with the MLs or Fire Javelin or Jenner and it looks like its pretty lacking, but that extra MP or jet makes all the difrence sometimes, because you can be where you want to be, when you want to be there.

Would it be vastly better with a number of key modifications? Yes, there's little question about that.  But, is it very usable?  Yes. 

And, of course, if the Jenner had 7 jets, no one would ever use it...

[iamfanboy]

I remember, a long time ago, my friends and I had a contest about doing up the best Assassin variant, and all six of us came up with six different takes on it.

It has SO MUCH room for improvement it's sad and depressing that no one official has ever managed to do up an adequate version.

[Fear Factory]

The 21 is greatly underappreciated; it works extremely well in combination with dirt-common 'mechs of the 3025 era.

Dirt-common 'Mechs being the Wolfhound, Jenner F, Firestarter "Mirage", and Fire Javelin.   ::)  Most who use those probably shrug off the more common Stingers, Locusts, and Wasps.

I'm not going to defend the Assassin again.  I'll get stones thrown at me.  Probably the same stones used for those who try to defend the Rifleman.

[Maelwys]

I'm not going to say the original Assassin is the greatest `Mech out there, but it makes sense to me. It was designed to fight against the classic bug trio, and I think it works for what it was designed for. It looks to me the designers took the Wasp, then simply made it bigger, faster, with a bit of extra ranged firepower.  And it should work. The Assassin is fast enough to stay away from the Wasp and Stinger, and while its slower than the Locust, it does have Jump Jets to make up for the slight speed discrepancy. LRMs to soften up the targets, then SRMs and MLs to finish the target off.

Could it be done better? Yes, but I can see here its coming from as well. Is it going to suck against some of the modern `Mechs? Sure. But it was designed in an era when they could afford specialization, and the answer to "There's a company of Wasps out there!" was "Send out the battalion of Assassins!"

[Beazle]

Guys, what is it with this name obsession? You don't want your Mechwarriors try to wield their Warhammers literally, do you?  :D

Yes.

Me want.

[Fireangel]

Dirt-common 'Mechs being the Wolfhound, Jenner F, Firestarter "Mirage", and Fire Javelin.   ::)  Most who use those probably shrug off the more common Stingers, Locusts, and Wasps.

I'm not going to defend the Assassin again.  I'll get stones thrown at me.  Probably the same stones used for those who try to defend the Rifleman.

Actually, I was thinking specifically of the plain vanilla Stinger, Wasp and Locust, serving as fire support/command for the lighter jobs. It also pairs well with the Archer, Rifleman and the wonder-55's (Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Griffin), where it serves as lighter scout.

[Scotty]

Dirt-common 'Mechs being the Wolfhound, Jenner F, Firestarter "Mirage", and Fire Javelin.   ::)  Most who use those probably shrug off the more common Stingers, Locusts, and Wasps.

I'm not going to defend the Assassin again.  I'll get stones thrown at me.  Probably the same stones used for those who try to defend the Rifleman.

The Wolfhound didn't exist in 3025, the Firestarter is a rare specialist, much less a very specific variant of it, the Jenner F is rare compared to the Jenner D and is concentrated hugely in the Draconis Combine (and thus, doesn't see a lot of action in something like half of the entire Inner Sphere, if not more), and the Fire Javelin is used only by the Federated Suns, and again in small numbers.

Those aren't really dirt common, so much as you managed to pick out a list of Light 'Mechs that exist in introductory tech that fall outside of the Assassin's hunting grounds.  Good job.

[Fear Factory]

The Wolfhound didn't exist in 3025, the Firestarter is a rare specialist, much less a very specific variant of it, the Jenner F is rare compared to the Jenner D and is concentrated hugely in the Draconis Combine (and thus, doesn't see a lot of action in something like half of the entire Inner Sphere, if not more), and the Fire Javelin is used only by the Federated Suns, and again in small numbers.

Those aren't really dirt common, so much as you managed to pick out a list of Light 'Mechs that exist in introductory tech that fall outside of the Assassin's hunting grounds.  Good job.

Well aware of that.  Obviously, you don't get it.

[Beazle]

My biggest complaint about the Assassin(21) is that it's pretty much a 40 ton light mech.

What I mean is, if you think of it in terms of a light mechs, you see it's actually pretty good.  Sure the weapons load out is less than optimal, but in 3025 that's pretty much the norm.

If, however, your in a  campaign with any sort of randomness to the unit generation, and you pay points/cash for a medium mech, and roll an Assassin, your probably gonna be upset.  Do this a couple of times and you'll probably end up feeling tweaked off just thinking about it.

It's kinda like getting a random assault mech and rolling a Charger.  Ya, sure, it's useable, but it's not what you were hoping for when rolled those dice.

[Minemech]

 What Fear Factory is trying to say is that what is true in universe is not necessarily true on table top. Personally I would be willing to challenge the Wolfhound with an Assassin, but the others would be a lot more trouble. This is similar to our ballistic weapons argument where depending upon what style you played dictated wether, or not you respected the tools. People who only use uber lights are less likely to respect the thing and people who use it against people who use the uber lights will find their usefulness downsized.

[Charlie Tango]

 [copper]


Let's all just relax and let cooler heads prevail here.  This discussion is getting a little heated and beginning to verge on warnings being thrown.


/  [copper]

[Sabelkatten]

My biggest complaint about the Assassin(21) is that it's pretty much a 40 ton light mech.

What I mean is, if you think of it in terms of a light mechs, you see it's actually pretty good.  Sure the weapons load out is less than optimal, but in 3025 that's pretty much the norm.

If, however, your in a  campaign with any sort of randomness to the unit generation, and you pay points/cash for a medium mech, and roll an Assassin, your probably gonna be upset.  Do this a couple of times and you'll probably end up feeling tweaked off just thinking about it.

It's kinda like getting a random assault mech and rolling a Charger.  Ya, sure, it's useable, but it's not what you were hoping for when rolled those dice.

Actually, if I was playing a campaign game I'd expect there to be quite a lot of recon/raiding missions. So I would be quite happy with getting an Assassin! In fact, I'd rather have an Assassin than a Clint or a Vulcan.

Now if I was rolling up a random force for a one-off shoot-out on a limited battlefield, then I would be unhappy!

[Fireangel]

My biggest complaint about the Assassin(21) is that it's pretty much a 40 ton light mech.

Given that the light/medium/heavy/assault cutoffs are pretty much arbitrary, I really don't have a problem with this statement (which is true).

[Fallen_Raven]

I've had some luck with the Assasin, even though it seems to be an artillery magnet for me. I have been known to use it as a raider on large maps to hit objectives.

[CrossfirePilot]

I found the Assassin great with the old Inferno rules where they could only be loaded in SRM2s and they burned for 3 turns.  You could run around the battlefield at top speed as Capt Chaos...

[Diablo48]

Given that the light/medium/heavy/assault cutoffs are pretty much arbitrary, I really don't have a problem with this statement (which is true).

And that would be exactly why I group 'Mechs by movement rather than weight, although if you have to group by weight it would make sense to bump each class up five tons due to the way the movement efficiencies work out.

[Matti]

I have been known to use it as a raider on large maps to hit objectives.

How large maps? How many turns? With or without Double Blind?

[Fallen_Raven]

How large maps? How many turns? With or without Double Blind?

The maps are 4 to 5 map sheets deep, width being less important. This was done in Megamek, and the objective of the scenario is to destroy a handful of light buildings (barracks, supply sheds, or anything else you want them to be) with a company to a side.

I hold the Assassin back while the heavier units form a line of battle in the center, waiting until each sides main combatants are commited. Then I run the Assassin directly toward the objectives (every time I've done this there have been trees or hills that made a straight jump the fastest option), and forcing my opponents to make certain decisions.

Their options are

a) Ignore my raider and give me a simple win.

b) Pull their fast movers off the line, which gives my heavies an advantage in numbers. In theory this advantage is enough to win that fight and then continue on to the objective with superior force.

c) They can try pulling heavy forces from the main battle to chase down the Assassin, which allows me to hit them in their rear, as well as having a 40 tonner tying up valuable direct combat units.

While the scenario might be a bit unbalanced (at the least I need to make the buildings more durable), and it has only been done in 3025, I think it shows the potential of the 'mech as part of a larger plan.

[Nahuris]

Actually, the Assassin does live up to it's name, but it requires that people do two things.
One is remember the rules it was written under, and two, stop thinking of mech vs. mech only, combat.....

At the time that the assassin was designed, the SRM2 was the ONLY launcher with infernos, and they pretty much could kill an ICE Hover..... IF you could hit it.....

With it's movement profile, the Assassin can go over trees, etc, that the hovers have to go around, and armed with Infernos, it can kill them in one hit......
It also has the same medium laser that other mechs have ....stinger, wasp, oscout, etc... and an LRM5, same as a Grasshopper, or Shadowhawk. The -30 increases it's use against hovers and also gives it a use with VTOL's -
It's purpose is to kill light units, and screen it's forces from spotters and hover mounted tag units, like Minions, Beagles, or other fast light units. It's failure is when people try to use it in mech to mech combat, where it's as useful as an Urbanmech in open terrain.
Although I too would love to see a variant with MML's.......

Nahuris

[Fear Factory]

I've had a lot of luck punching out K2 Catapult cockpits with the Assassin.  To the point where friends would rage quit because their "perfect designs" were falling to such a "horrible" 'Mech.

[Nahuris]

I've had a lot of luck punching out K2 Catapult cockpits with the Assassin.  To the point where friends would rage quit because their "perfect designs" were falling to such a "horrible" 'Mech.

I've always had great luck with Assassins --- in one of my past battles with Col. Hengist, it was an Assassin -30 that led the light lance racing through his clan formation, providing both close firepower AND tag locks from other mechs that allowed the lance of Stygian Hover Tanks to drop 3 of their combined 4 LRM15's on one mech, via indirect fire. AND it was the LBX5 on that Assassin-30 that killed the pilot who's cockpit had already caught the IS Large Pulse laser with a fragment to the crit 3.....

I love Assassins... you just have to remember that their job isn't necessarily to after other mechs......

Nahuris