Author Topic: BattleMech Manual input  (Read 50185 times)

cmoreland

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 92
  • I've got a gut feeling in my stomach...
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #30 on: 29 November 2016, 23:25:58 »
My opinion as a player that has only ever played with Battlemechs and not tanks, VTOLS, LAMs etc and these thoughts are based on games I've played with my son since he was 5 and is now 10.

- Ejection rules clarification. We have no idea how this works and it would be nice for clarification there and it should be very important toward the end of a battle. We naturally have always wondered how this works
- Clarification on line of sight next to cliffs etc. Can a 'mech REALLY see the other 'mech if it's one or even two hexes away but more than 2 levels above it? Always seemed obscure and house rules nearly always apply here
- I know what the answer is here, but I had to look all over the place to figure out if a 'mech could run backwards or if it could back into water or if it could run forwards into a woods hex (still counting the two MP of course)
- Confused the dog out of me while learning the game with regard to assigning crits. There are parts of the Battlemech innards that have -no critical slot-...so do you just keep re-rolling until you hit the 1 or 2 critical slots that exist in say, the upper arm? What if you potentially roll 15 times without rolling a 1 or a 2? lol. It's a bit confusing for newer players and the rules left something to be desired there.
- Easier to understand rules on a falling 'mech. What does two hexsides right even mean? Is the 'mech on it's back or on its front or lying on its side? I don't know haha!

Well that's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Like I said, I know the answer to most of these now, but the wording could be worked on or elaborated on I think to help newbies out. THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS! :)

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #31 on: 30 November 2016, 05:22:40 »
In case people haven't read Randall's earlier tumblr post, or otherwise followed some of the discussion on the book:

The BattleMech Manual is about mechs, period (hence the name).  It will not contain anything on infantry, battle armour, protos, vehicles, etc.
I can't find the post right now, but 'Mechs only means this volume EXCLUDES LAMS because they depend on so much stuff that is outside of scope for this book (Like Aero)(I believe that also extends to cover QuadVees as well)

Also no infantry means no ejecting, or at least no rules for what happens to the 'Warrior once he's out of his 'Mech, because that's all we're interested in.

Ice_Trey

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 671
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #32 on: 30 November 2016, 06:51:13 »
On the subject of 95% of the players 95% of the time, I'm only going to talk about my own experiences, and how I have used each of the books. In order to help to make the best product possible, I need to offer criticism on what I think needed work. I don't want to poo-poo on Catalyst or it's authors.

CAVEAT: Don't mind the Battlemaster. I am speaking as a player. I have no more authority over things than any other run-of-the-mill player. Being demo team just makes things easier to help teach new players how to play.

First of all, I do not do campaign games. Campaigns work when you have a venue that is your own. Probably your own house. You have to wrangle cats to get everyone in the same spot, and as soon as one of those cats starts getting bored, the whole thing collapses in on itself. The GM always has to be there to run the other guys through the game, and play mooks, rather than allowing each player to fight other players on their own time. Combine that with all the crunch in the standard Battletech campaign system (Not to say I'm not enamoured by the idea, but I'd have an easier time finding Sasquatch than someone to be my GM for a Battletech Campaign) and it really does make more sense for me to stick to pick-up games at an LGS. That has been the play style I have used most frequently. Scenario games that I run at cons do use a lot more content from the other books, but those are for planning, prepared ahead of time at home, not made up on the spot. The things I need when running the scenarios have proven to be the same, or less, than for pick-up games.

Tech Level:
I love keeping up with the latest tech, but for every pick-up-game where I get to play with the newest toys, there are another ten where I'm getting shoehorned into using tech from the clan invasion or earlier. This is either due to players' inexperience with the game and needing to be weaned into it at introbox level, or because they're the grognardy-type who bought things 20 years ago and they'll be explitive verbed if they ever have to spend money again. Lots of Introductory, A good amount of Tournament Level, Advanced/Experimental, besides artillery, I've never used in a tabletop game. I will use any Adv/Exp gear introduced in this rulebook, though. It's more about not having to lug extra weight or concede to extra rule use.

Total Warfare: Most of the rules come into play in Total Warfare, though buildings have often been treated as impenetrable concrete bricks. Most of melee gets used, too, but I have never seen anyone use a club in the game - ever. Neither tree, girder, or mech limb. I have never seen anyone use Semi-Guided LRMs, but that might be in part because many people still think that TAG counts as spotting for indirect fire, and it's not explicitly said well enough that spotting and designating are different things, making the extra BV costs for SG LRMs not worth it to them. Also Missile-related? One Shot launchers have been all but unused for years due to inefficiency, so most players don't realise that they can't explode from crit hits or overheating. Being clear about that is important. C3 Networks had small wording changes that made huge changes on gameplay. For a while, C3 could be spotted without LOS between the closest mech and the target (Attacker needs LOS though). This was almost enough to make C3 worth the brutal BV costs. Later, it was written back to requiring LOS for the closest mech. It really makes C3 little more than a white elephant in a BV-based pickup game, that way. Industrial Mechs never got used, nor the equipment that they usually carry. All the Combines and Chainsaws and Mining Drills were dead weight. Same can be said of Support Vehicles, and all the Aerospace stuff. VTOL is OK, but there aren't enough VTOL in the game that have minis for it to have ever come into play. WiGE rules I still haven't used, and they're kind of tough to wrap my head around.  Speaking of unused things: Rail. There are no train minis. There are no maps with traintracks. Not sure why this wasn't TacOps'd
I did not like the inclusion of Miniatures assembly and painting tips, as it really isn't something I need at an LGS, and doesn't do much but add page-count. It should be reserved for an introbox, website, or miniatures rules book.
The mission types in the "Creating Scenarios" was nice, but some need more clarification or to be reworked. Most of the scenarios sound like "Kill'em all" with differing start points. I'd love to use hidden units rules, but when both sides' objective is "kill'em all", I can't see justification for the defenders needing to have half the BV of the attackers, even if they can hide some of their units.
I love RATs both as a means to have randomly selected forces, and as a means to know what kind of mechs each side should have, but I think greater care is needed in balancing the quality of mechs in each RAT. In all honesty, though, RATs don't see use in my games, because it means you don't know in advance what it is you need to bring to the LGS in terms of record sheets, and unless you're buying dozens of each, you don't know how many of each mini you need before you're forced to proxy. RATs are fantastic as part of campaigns and RPGs, and I think it's a must have. As part of a pickup game away from the comforts and resources of home? Never.
There are a lot of people who still prefer older editions of BMR over Total Warfare, but most of those complaints are about layout and difficulty of finding rules. I'm inclined to agree that TW's layout and ease of use is lacking, but I LOVED a lot of the changes that were made in TW. Partial cover not being a handicap? Falling in water doing half-damage? Machine Guns and Flamers being useful at anti-infantry work? Superb. Vees, BA, and Infantry being made viable alternatives oh my yes. The index, however... That was the biggest issue. I remember finding no entry for Improved Jump Jets, but for some reason, there was an entry for Pin Vice.
Lastly... Personal taste... I really prefer to see artwork in books. Illustrations, especially full color ones, are WAY more exciting and dynamic to me than pictures of minis. Later rulebooks get the hang of minis dioramas that look interesting, but much of Total Warfare looked like snapshots of any old miniatures-rules pickup game and didn't feel exciting or dynamic enough. By TacOps and beyond, the dioramas started looking like real dioramas, but all things considered, I'd still rather see some art from Alex Iglesias or Anthony Scroggins in there.

TechManual: I'll be honest, save for calculating the BV of a force, this book has been almost completely unused by me. Checking the production year of some equipment was handy, but it's otherwise meh. We've had mech editing programs for years, and it's way more convenient and clean-looking than churning record sheets off by hand. Further, it's too time consuming to be doing that before a pick-up game. I am glad that they put the construction rules in their own book. That's another 10-50 pages (Depending on how many unit types and level of equipment) of unused rules I don't need to lug around. Calculating how much BV a force costs, though? HUGELY important for playing pick-up games. There was a short, "blink and you miss it" blurb in Total Warfare that a lance should be about 6000 BV, but clearly stating some "Standard BV Values" for players who are trying to build their first mech lance/star for use at an LGS would save them a lot of grief. Scaling these values (or tips for scaling these values) to make play between IS and Clans faster and easier would be a good idea.  I'd also suggest some BV tweaks/errata for C3 networks, while we're at it. A C3 lance isn't good. A Level II isn't great, but at least C3i is less fragile. A C3 company is just outright brokenly bad and why I hate double-master mechs with a passion.
Reminding players that Clan mechs' record sheets are pre-calculated as though they had a 4/5 mechwarrior, and not a clan-standard 3/4 mechwarrior, would get me out of some unpleasant conversations I had in the past.
One thing not included in Techmanual/TotalWarfare that should be included: Game-organising etiquette. Clarification that whether or not custom mechs are expected to be permissible for use in a pick-up game without prior agreement. Whether or not the team behind Battletech want to put their foot down on whether or not custom mechs are tournament legal is fine, but more importantly is what is to be expected as the default game. For example, if I show up to a pickup game with a stock lance of mechs with 3025 tech, I don't think anyone's going to complain, but if all of those mechs are min-maxed custom builds using Jihad-era Tournament-level tech, I'm pretty sure that some folks would take issue with having to fight against it with the stock 'mech record sheets they printed off. On that note, with the fluff for Omnimechs, are players allowed to customize the pod space however they like before a match without asking, or is the default to stick to the canon configurations? Likewise, if someone has a star of clan mechs at 15000 BV, and the other guy only shows up with a lance of 3025-mechs valued at 5000 BV... Different people have different tastes, and agreeing in advance on things is the best way to go, but having a clear setup of "If we didn't talk it out before the game, what are the guidelines I should follow for preparing for a pickup game" should be listed.

Tactical Operations: I wanted to use this book more often, but it was a whole lot of book for something that I would need to pick and choose rules from. I felt it better to just say "Total warfare, final destination" than having players pick and choose rules that benefit only them. I have had bad experiences with hells horses players refusing to play unless enhanced vehicle survivability rules were in play. I wouldn't mind rules like those if they came with positives and negatives, but outright improving something with no drawbacks might as well be throwing BV out the window. Having the equipment would be nice, but the extra rules are just points of contention and aren't really needed.
In theory, variable weather sounds fun and awesome. In practice, pretty much everything means "your shooting is even worse, now". Good for adding flavor to scenario games, but overall seems like overkill when TNs are often already at 10+ with regular warriors.

Strategic Operations: Only for Campaigns. I felt like the Repair/Refit/Customization rules in here should have been included in Techmanual, because so many players treat mechs like nothing but a mass of lego bricks. If my suggestion for not having construction rules in BMM goes ignored, at least include the Refit/Customization rules, too.

Interstellar Ops: Some of the era-related tech was interesting and could be handy for sculpting scenario games, but again, nothing there is something I need for a pick-up game.

Campaign Operations
For campaigns. No duh. That being said, if you guys want to beat me to building a simple, No-GM, come-as-you-please pickup game campaign system that allows players to use whatever minis they have/want and can be taped to and tracked on the wall of an LGS (and no, not the whole wall), I'm all for it being included.
« Last Edit: 30 November 2016, 08:27:01 by Ice_Trey »

Daemion

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5852
  • The Future of BattleTech
    • Never Tales and Other Daydreams
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #33 on: 30 November 2016, 09:32:12 »
Quick question/suggestion:

Did the alternate sensor modes from the Tac Handbook get reprinted somewhere? If not, that would be a neat addition, imo.
It's your world. You can do anything you want in it. - Bob Ross

Every thought and device conceived by Satan and man must be explored and found wanting. - Donald Grey Barnhouse on the purpose of history and time.

I helped make a game! ^_^  - Forge Of War: Tactics

Descronan

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • "No multi-pass."
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #34 on: 30 November 2016, 11:43:52 »
I want to state this ahead of time - I love Battletech and I want it to succeed. But...

I've been reading and buying several recent books and one thing stands out. Formulas are unnecessarily complex and the number of steps needed to come up with resolutions takes too many steps.

Please, please, please, look at the success of Alpha Strike. Simplify, streamline, and look for ways to make your books more ACCESSIBLE by more people. If the books are easier to use and digest, you will sell more books. But if you cater to the uber-fan, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Focus on the least common denominator AND THEN add details that the 1% fan wants. That means we need standards that everyone can agree to. If you'e going to use Cbills as the currency, then everything needs a price reference. If its based on BV, then everything needs a BV. And if its PV, then everything needs a PV. Or at MINIMUM, provide an official conversion so we can "ball park" figures.

I also realize that you've locked yourselves into a d6, which is highly restrictive. Consider adding other die types to streamline some rolls or move to a tiered 1d6 system for some tables like you did with Critical Hits on mech sheets. With a 2-layer table system you can offer 36 different results. With 3-tiers, that's up to 216 possible outcomes.

Mission Type (6) - Mission (36) - Objective (216)

Lastly, each book should be self-contained. It is fine to reference another book for more details, but if you're making a book on Infantry, for example, it should be the definitive book. We should not have to flip to another book to get a table or reference a chart. Likewise, if the resource is online, give us the full URL.

Xotl

  • Dominus Erratorum
  • BattleTech Developer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11644
  • Professor of Errata
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #35 on: 30 November 2016, 12:01:33 »
Hi all.  Something else that needs to be clarified (my apologies for failing to do so in my earlier post) is that this is most definitely NOT a new edition.  As such, rules changes will be next to none (and any that do appear will be backported to TW via errata).

The idea is that you're getting a reformatting of the existing rules for mechs, rather than a whole new version of the game, and we're looking for feedback on how exactly to best accomplish only this goal.  Thanks.
3028-3057 Random Assignment Tables -
Also contains faction deployment & rarity info.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=1219.0

CampaignAnon

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Living the Meme...
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #36 on: 30 November 2016, 20:13:30 »
Please, please, please, look at the success of Alpha Strike. Simplify, streamline, and look for ways to make your books more ACCESSIBLE by more people. If the books are easier to use and digest, you will sell more books. But if you cater to the uber-fan, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Focus on the least common denominator AND THEN add details that the 1% fan wants.

Alpha Strike is Alpha Strike. I think mixing the two might hurt in its own way. If only because a lot of people have already invested a lot of time in playing the old game. It might be interesting, but I like the original game more. But who knows, some cool ideas might come out of it.
« Last Edit: 30 November 2016, 20:29:36 by CampaignAnon »

Ice_Trey

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 671
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #37 on: 01 December 2016, 03:06:32 »
Agreed.

Though Campaign Operations might have been better laid out to have the Chaos campaign system listed first, and the full-detail system towards the back. Give the simple system for those who don't like the crunch first, and if they keep reading on, the real-deal for those who want the complete minutia.


Descronan

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • "No multi-pass."
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #38 on: 01 December 2016, 09:53:37 »
I want to see external, disposable weapons. An Atlas has hands and can carry 10 tons of weight without being slowed so why not give it an external AC2 or 5 with 1 ton of ammo? Likewise, a large laser with a battery would give it just enough ammo for a single engagement.

You could also have various levels of external armor. This stuff doesn't HAVE to be included in the mech's design weight. That's why they have hands and arms. Give us more stuff to pick up and use in combat. 

Descronan

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • "No multi-pass."
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #39 on: 01 December 2016, 11:10:21 »
Alpha Strike is Alpha Strike. I think mixing the two might hurt in its own way. If only because a lot of people have already invested a lot of time in playing the old game. It might be interesting, but I like the original game more. But who knows, some cool ideas might come out of it.

You're missing the point of that request. I'm not asking for you to do Alpha Strike, just learn the lessons from it. By streamlining I mean cut out unnecessary rules and rolls and simplify calculations. If you have a calculation that says Divide by X then multiply by Y, then do the calculations for us. There's no reason to have your players do the extra steps.

The specific example I can cite off the top of my head is in Campaign Ops. The rule says to add up the number of light-years between points and divide by 30, then multiply that result by 1.2 to represent average deviation. That could be simplified by saying "Divide by 25". Do the math so your players don't have to. (Note, I'm not complaining about the rule, but the added calculation step)

Bottom line, if it isn't NEEDED for game balance or other purposes, cut out the clutter.

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #40 on: 01 December 2016, 11:17:47 »
Descronan, this book isn't doing rules changes or adding new stuff, like those "external weapons/armor" you suggest. Those don't exists in current rules, thus they're not being added. (Well, there are handheld weapons... they might get added but then they're existing rules.)
Just a rulebook with rules pertaining to playing with BattleMechs, nothing else.

Streamlining here probably only happens by clarifying rules and cutting out non-'Mech stuff.
It is not a new edition of Battletech.

Adrian Gideon

  • BattleTech Developer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6824
  • BattleTech Line Developer
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #41 on: 01 December 2016, 11:28:15 »
Yeah Descronan, I think you know from FB that I'm with you on that 100%, but this isn't the book for it, that's not the mission statement.

The BattleMech Manual takes the core books and condenses down the most used rules—for BattleMechs only—into an easy-reference guide for using during play. It's not a rewrite of the rules, there are very few new rules*, and isn't meant to be a gateway for inexperienced players(though we've tried our best to keep them in mind).

*That said, there is a very new set of optional rules within one chapter that I think many people will love, and will certainly adapt pretty easily to Alpha Strike, BattleForce, and beyond.
If you appreciate how I’m doing, send me a tip: ko-fi.com/rayarrastia
fb.com/battletechgame
@CGL_BattleTech

Pat Payne

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1449
  • 352nd Combat Group -- Ex cinis ad astra
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #42 on: 01 December 2016, 17:09:32 »
*That said, there is a very new set of optional rules within one chapter that I think many people will love, and will certainly adapt pretty easily to Alpha Strike, BattleForce, and beyond.

OK, you have my attention now... :)

Descronan

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • "No multi-pass."
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #43 on: 01 December 2016, 19:17:02 »
 O0 Understood. Just throwing my 2 cents in. Hope it helps for future endeavors. I'm one for trying to stretch the limits of what we can do with this game so any and all ideas I've got are free of charge :D

I am Belch II

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10150
  • It's a gator with a nuke, whats the problem.
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #44 on: 02 December 2016, 08:18:02 »
Better quirk list.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5840
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #45 on: 02 December 2016, 09:10:56 »
*That said, there is a very new set of optional rules within one chapter that I think many people will love, and will certainly adapt pretty easily to Alpha Strike, BattleForce, and beyond.

Interesting.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

jackpot4

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 666
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #46 on: 02 December 2016, 10:57:55 »
Going off my previous post, if this book is to be used 95% of the time I really think that more in depth explanations of rules is necessary, for instance I had to get clarification from the forums about mechs falling and how their facing is determined. 

Kind of similar to my post earlier, keeping it simple is best.  The first chapter can cover basics such as mech height, movement, movement through various terrain, falling, facings, etc.  A second chapter could be all about combat, shooting to physicals and heat, as well as diagrams showing and explaining where shots are going and where shots are coming from both standing and prone.  A third chapter could cover advanced rules for mechs from TacOps.  A fourth chapter could cover the various pilot abilities and lance abilities/modifiers, this could be compiled into a chart without fiction to ease the use of just finding the numbers.

I think these are the most relevant concepts.
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

Be the Light in the darkness.

Karasu

  • Mecharcheologist by appointment
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 837
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #47 on: 02 December 2016, 11:59:34 »
Somewhere near the beginning should be one (or more) basic scenarios, the 'Here's how to play the game without any other planning'.  Possibly some sort of patrol encounter: "Two lances on patrol in no-man's land encounter each other and fight."

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #48 on: 02 December 2016, 14:47:30 »
For getting rid of " unnecessary rules and rolls" would probably begin by nerfing LB-X's, I can't think of a single item that slows gameplay down more.

And rules for carrying weapons in hands already exist.

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #49 on: 02 December 2016, 15:06:11 »
For getting rid of " unnecessary rules and rolls" would probably begin by nerfing LB-X's, I can't think of a single item that slows gameplay down more.

Build a box of death. Roll 10x2d6 at once and things get easier.

Pretty sure that belongs to group of "rule changes, not happening".

Oh, and try massive numbers for Swarm missiles...

StoneRhino

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2269
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #50 on: 03 December 2016, 00:31:20 »
Personally I hate the idea of this book. The reason is that it is focused on a single unit type, which reinforces the problem that the game has had in the past which is to make the mech something beyond every other unit type. Strangely the mech is not critted very often compared to how many moving parts it has and the need to armor those while still making them mobile. MaxTech then TW moved in the right direction. A book focused on mechs only just pushes to reset things, which makes the game 2D.

To keep the page count down just drop the stories. BT compendium:RoW used sidebars instead of stories that took up a few pages each, but still gave players nuggets of fluff to get their interest while infusing the book with some connection to the story of the game.


Martius

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1849
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #51 on: 03 December 2016, 09:35:01 »
Add advanced AMS rules and the rules about Probes helping with targetting as wehh as the Ghost targets rules.

Those add utility to pieces of equipment that do not much under normal rules considering their weight.



Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 24998
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #52 on: 03 December 2016, 10:08:37 »
I also agree with the use floating crits and new version of Ghost Targeting adding + 1  to hit rolls.
Using dice to show movement mods.

Edit: Stupid Auto-correct got the better of my typing..
« Last Edit: 03 December 2016, 16:56:59 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13068
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #53 on: 03 December 2016, 14:44:56 »
Is anyone else puzzled by all the Artillery requests for the MECH manual?

I'm sure there are a few more now, but pre-Jihad there couldn't have been more than half dozen mechs that used Artillery & only 1 (Naga) of those was designed for it as a primary weapon.  The O'Bakemono & Catapult variants were there in lower #'s & anything else was a fluke 1 off or rare-ish variant.

Not saying I don't like Artillery, I love me some, just can't say that I see it as being needed in the MECH book where 90% of the people will use it.  At least it our games its almost always used in vehicle form.

Anyway, just a random thought I had.


Also,  I only went over TO/SO in my earlier post.

I would add the BV calculations for C3/TAG from TechManual, but that is about all I could find there.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #54 on: 03 December 2016, 18:58:39 »
Artillery is actually confirmed to be in, though apparently in simplified, off-board form.

Also, apparently earlier BT rulebooks had artillery, so people wanting it and this having it is kind of a throwback to them, even if arty isn't tournament legal.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 24998
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #55 on: 04 December 2016, 13:33:03 »
I'd like see the TacOps rule letting you the Beagle let you have -1 through woods.  Least give it some more functionality, special in pickup game.  Least thing be semi-useful!
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Hobbes

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #56 on: 05 December 2016, 02:18:27 »
Personally, I'd like to see the rule from TacOps where a pilot must make a piloting skill roll at a cumulative +1 for each 20 points of damage sustained in a single phase (40 damage = PSR +2, etc.). My friend and I had played for over 15 years thinking this was just the way it was done, as well as the fact that it just made sense to us, only to be surprised to find it was an optional TacOps rule and not included as standard in TW.

ActionButler

  • Global Moderator
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5840
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #57 on: 05 December 2016, 09:31:44 »
I think a big part of the 'What should be in this book' problem revolves around the '95% of players' comment. 

What equipment, terrain, environmental conditions, and rules are tournament legal?  Add those.
Rules for constructing tournament legal units?  Add those.
Rules for salvaging equipment from one game to the next?  Probably add those. 
Rules for running a full-fledged campaign?  Drop those
Rules for interacting with other, non-mech units?  Maybe add those?  Pilot ejection, for example, is probably a keeper.
Rules for fighting/deploying/using/creating non-mech units?  Drop those. 
Rules for things that are very rare in the BT Universe or for mech-units that act like non-mech units (LAMs and Quad-Vees)? Drop those.
Rules for equipment, units, technology that are not tournament legal? Drop those.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37306
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #58 on: 05 December 2016, 19:42:29 »
I don't think 95% of BattleTech players play in tournaments, so that may not be the best metric for inclusion or exclusion of rules.

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: BattleMech Manual input
« Reply #59 on: 05 December 2016, 20:11:07 »
After thinking about equipment, i came to this result:

Include 'Mech-relevant introductory, tournament legal (by the Dark Age) and advanced (by the Dark Age) equipment. Experimental by the Dark Age or ever, it is not necessary, for those one uses IO and/or TacOps and/or relevant scenario-/sourcebooks.

I specify the Dark Age because a lot of former experimental and advanced stuff is TL level by then. But a lot of interesting stuff, like alternate armors (Reflec, Blazer, Ferro-Lamellor) are still advanced yet used often enough (or by iconic 'Mechs like Mad Cat IV) by that era they might as well be included.

Actual experimental stuff is best left out, as they're uncommon or very era-limited and probably need specific book anyway. Eg, early Clan prototypes, one uses Operation Klondike for games set during that era which also includes them. Or the Interface Cockpit, which is used by grand total of three 'Mechs in the entire game currently.