Pirate Mech Choices

[Vonshroom]

Hello All!

The Era is late Succession Wars, probably around the War of '39.

I am looking to put together a group of pirates, or privateer type forces. The idea is that they will be operating in the periphery raiding mostly fringe Inner Sphere worlds under a letter of mark. My ideal setting is Taurians raiding Davions. I'm looking for ideal pirate units and what you think they should carry. I think I have a decent idea, but am looking for your input. Honestly conventional forces are the way to go, cheaper, more mobile, etc. But I want some mechs. I'd imagine dealing with infantry and vees is a must. (Think fighting against cheap planetary militias.)

So if you have to put together a few lances of pirate mechs, in this era, what type of units are you selecting and why?

My ideal units would be cheap, and relatively easily maintained, primarily energy based fairly mobile designs with hands for hit and run raids. As a pirate leader, an Ostsol would probably be my preferred ride, or maybe the Ostroc with an LRM5.

Some examples:

Grasshopper
Firestarter
Hunchback - Swayback
Spider
Fire Javelin
Quickdraw
Ost mechs


So as an enterprising pirate / privateer looking to make a living by raiding, what would you pick?

[JadeHellbringer]

I'm a Dervish fan- no hands, unfortunately, but it DOES have jump jets, a versatile weapons array, very adequate ammo loadouts for its SRMs and standard load for LRMs (and a couple of lasers to boot)... excellent choice for making people keep their heads down. Bonus if you brought inferno rounds for the SRM racks- nothing tells people to shut up and let me clean them out of valuables like the threat of napalm.

The 3E Banshee is another good choice. It fits the pirate ethos nicely, particularly for the leader of the group- enormous, scary-looking, cheaper than many other similar options... and since no pirate king wants to take a stray head hit and leave his kingdom to the next guy in line, both main guns allow him to hang back and snipe (and of course move in and brawl if he so desires at some point). And of course, not only hands, but a big assault frame to carry things with at that.

[Empyrus]

Standard 1V Locusts, standard Stingers, standard Wasps. All three are very common across the Inner Sphere and Periphery, and reasonably common among pirates (though badly maintained).

Dervish and Banshee are good choices as well. The Shadow Hawk is likely common enough as well.

[klarg1]

Given how pirates are portrayed in the Succession Wars, I would expect a hogde-podge of antique designs, and frankenmechs. I think your choices make sense from a "what might they want" perspective, but periphery pirates are nearly always beggars, not choosers.

I do really like JadeHellbringer's suggestion for a Banshee-3E, or any of it's non-S variants as the leader 'mech. It's big, it's intimidating, and it's a plausible periphery cast-off.

[Sartris]

The much-maligned charger 1a1 might actually have some worth. 5/8 speed that can carry off eight tons of ill-gotten gains.

Stock heavy hover apcs are also good for heists.

[Vonshroom]

Liking the suggestions so far. The Banshee is a real good idea Hellbie, Newver really used one before, but that would be a good idea for a leader.

The Dervish is one of my favorite designs, I could easily see its utility in a pirate force, infernos for the SRM-2 make it that much more deadly.

Bug mechs and ShadowHawks would probably see a lot of use just due to commonality of parts and proliferation.

Given how pirates are portrayed in the Succession Wars, I would expect a hogde-podge of antique designs, and frankenmechs. I think your choices make sense from a "what might they want" perspective, but periphery pirates are nearly always beggars, not choosers.

klarg, while I agree about the beggars over choosers, the idea is that you do actually have a choice. Granted you wouldn't most of the time, but I am thinking more of a privateer scenario, i.e. a merc unit takes a long term contract to raid another faction under a letter of mark. Basically conducting pirate raids and acting as such, but with a little more leeway in what units they'd at least start out with.

[GermanSumo]

Some examples:

Grasshopper
Firestarter
Hunchback - Swayback
Spider
Fire Javelin
Quickdraw
Ost mechs


So as an enterprising pirate / privateer looking to make a living by raiding, what would you pick?

i know its assault and hard to come by... but an awesome or an atlas would be my picks to bully some ppl. decent firepower and enough armor to deal with everything militias and periphery powers can throw at me :P :P :P

[snewsom2997]

I am a fan of pirates using well pirate grade material, Wasp's with Stinger Arms, Stinger's with Wasp Legs. Wolverine with Shadow Hawk and Griffin Parts.

The original Scenario Packs also had most mechs having some kind of borked equipment, Gyro or other Critical hits, -n Heat Sinks, the Primary weapon can only fire once every couple of turns, less than a full load of ammo, partial armor due to none being available for repairs.
I would do the same thing for any ASFs, Dropships and Jumpships, Heat Sinks, Armor, Weapons, borked, critical hits applied.

I would also add some negative traits for pilots, if they are any good, give them addiction or psychosis. If they are regular or green, some manner of ner'do'well, PTSD, AWOL, or Criminal Warrants.

But you can also add some flavor, like connected with the Yakuza, or still friends with the Quatermaster from the old Unit, or even House Intel agents. Or even a Dragoon or Comstar operative.

[Iceweb]

Though the engine is expensive I like the Champion for pirates. 
It is fast for it's size, and you can carry infernos to roast civilians when you want to spread fear. 
The autocannon should be easy to keep in shells and you have some lasers to back you up, while you can maintain the crystals in them. 

The only issue (other than the armor) is the lack of lower arms or hands even though there is nothing in the arm slots. 
It would be piratey to frankenmech the arms with various claws, pincers, and magnets to carry off loot.

[JadeHellbringer]

OH! I forgot one. Firestarter. Yeah, you lack hands, but jump jets allow you to move around rapidly. And... come on, you're a pirate. What better way to absolutely terrify the locals into surrendering than a quartet of flamers and a couple of MGs to boot? (And what better way to keep the local militia from responding than parking those civvies in the town square with that Firestarter standing over them?)

[Daryk]

As others have mentioned, hands would be my primary criteria.  The Firestarter is about the only one I'd consider without them due to the huge psychological impact JadeHellbringer mentions.

Overall, I'd look at something like:

Banshee, Grasshopper, Charger, Ostol

Quickdraw, Wolverine (WVR-6M), Griffin, Phoenix Hawk

Fire Javelin, Firestarter, Mirage (FS9-M, assuming it has hands), Stinger

[Colt Ward]

What about some of the new 'old' designs?  Some of the first mechs like the Icarus or even primitives like the Thunderbolt 1C, Wolverine 1R/3R, Swordsman, etc.

[Natasha Kerensky]

I've run a criminal ELH officer who escaped court martial with his TDR-5SE Tbolt in tow and went bandit.  The jump jet mobility, thick armor, larger weapons, and battlefists work well with other typical bandit fare.

The TDR-5SE lacks anti-infantry capabilities, so I ran it with a discarded Flea to threaten the locals.  Worked well together.

[Colt Ward]

Honestly, pirate mechs with hands IMO beg for MG or RL handhelds since it gets them a bit more punch on weapons they can restock out of simple parts.  And all of that going off would be intimidating and impressive for the green militias.

[Giovanni Blasini]

I do like the idea of Primitives, but the problem any pirate is going to have is finding parts, and I don't know how common those will be.

For those recommending Wasps, Stingers, Shadow Hawks, Griffins, etc., I like the cut of your jib.  The Archer is also super common and a solid choice, despite its ammo dependency.

[Deadborder]

The Ostsol has an all-energy payload, can share parts with Ostrocs and has two hands to carry booty. Plus it's rear mediums allow it to cover itself while making a getaway.

If you really wamt to keep people busy while your men plunder, a Flea is a great way to do it. People are going to want to chase after the scabby little 20-tonner that's threatening to set fire to their homes/crops/beloved peasant village

[Death by Lasers]

  If I was a pirate I would probably want something that was a good compromise between speed and fighting power.  The ideal pirate force is one that is fast enough to run away from anything that can crush it but powerful enough to crush anything that can catch up to it.  For the 3rd SS era I'm thinking Griffins, Shadow Hawks, Dragons, Commandos, Javelins, and Phoenix Hawks.

  As to they type and quality of mechs pirates usually use I'm not sure.  I guess that depends on how successful the pirate is :)  Seems like their is the potential for some serious profits if your a pirate.  I know 17th and 18th century piracy could be ludicrously profitable and that many pirates made a lot better pay than soldiers and sailors causing many soldiers to go pirate and many sailors colluded with them.  My best guess is that your average pirate band wouldn't be too dissimilarly equipped to your average mercenary band but with more ad-hoc repairs because replacement parts would have to either be stolen or acquired from the black market.

[Giovanni Blasini]

I will point out that there was a successful solo bandit/pirate who ran around in an UrbanMech he won in a card game.

[Valkerie]

If the idea is that you're along the Davion border, then it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility to have one or two salvaged Centurions on hand.  Good punch and it has one hand to run off with loot  ;)

[SCC]

What about some of the new 'old' designs?  Some of the first mechs like the Icarus or even primitives like the Thunderbolt 1C, Wolverine 1R/3R, Swordsman, etc.

Given that the last production was over 300 years for those designs, you wouldn't be a priate force but rather a joke given how out of date they would be.

For 3039 ear I'd actually suggest CC hardware and personal, there were probably units that fled or ran during the war, and large piles of part destroyed 'Mechs just lying around for salvage.

[Sigil]

IndustrialMech conversions (MODS) are another possibility.  The most common are listed below.  There is plenty of BattleTech canon supporting robust IndustrialMech production during the Succession War era although many people are more familiar with their (re)appearance during the Dark Ages.  An extremely fun rule set as well.

Dig King RCL-1M MiningMech MOD – 2801
Buster BC XV-M HaulerMech MOD – 2801
Buster BC XV-M-B HaulerMech MOD  - 2801
Harvester Ant KIC-3M AgroMech MOD – 2801
Harvester Ant KIC-3M-B AgroMech MOD - 2801   
Lumberjack LM4/P LoggerMech MOD – 2811
 

[Wrangler]

Depending when they are.  I think the ones you came up with additions work out. Pirates are either striking fast and hard, then grabbing swag on their way out or they got support element like a water trucks or cargo trucks haul the goodies out.

Hermes II would be good too, it's fairly common Succession Wars era machine with at least one hand..  A Thunderbolt, the jump jet variety be good despite it's lack of speed.


I like the idea of swapping out parts of typical mechs of the era and putting frankenstein-ish parts on it.  Like a Griffin with a Hatchet of a Hatchetman on it.

[Vonshroom]

Depending when they are.  I think the ones you came up with additions work out. Pirates are either striking fast and hard, then grabbing swag on their way out or they got support element like a water trucks or cargo trucks haul the goodies out.

Hermes II would be good too, it's fairly common Succession Wars era machine with at least one hand..  A Thunderbolt, the jump jet variety be good despite it's lack of speed.


I like the idea of swapping out parts of typical mechs of the era and putting frankenstein-ish parts on it.  Like a Griffin with a Hatchet of a Hatchetman on it.

I like your thinking here. The Hermes II is a design I have been looking at recently. Plus it is fluffed at being one of the easiest designs to maintain, and the flamer comes in extra handy. I can definitely see the utility of Frankenmechs in a pirate unit. Ideally you would use homogeneous designs as well. Within reason of course.

[Colt Ward]

I do like the idea of Primitives, but the problem any pirate is going to have is finding parts, and I don't know how common those will be.

The nice thing is it SHOULD be easier to repair because its a lower tech part, which is why I suggested them.  As far as being out of date . . . a Large Laser still hits like a Large Laser, so the mech might be under-armed compared to a comparable modern equipment but it still works.

[Giovanni Blasini]

The nice thing is it SHOULD be easier to repair because its a lower tech part, which is why I suggested them.  As far as being out of date . . . a Large Laser still hits like a Large Laser, so the mech might be under-armed compared to a comparable modern equipment but it still works.

It's good in theory, but the problem is where do you get the parts?  Industrial capacity is reduced during the Succession Wars, and the few that are remaining are cranking out Introtech parts as fast as they can. I just don't know if there's enough IndustrialMech or Primitive tech production out there during the era to make it work in 3039, even with the beginning of the technical renaissance at the time.

[SCC]

The nice thing is it SHOULD be easier to repair because its a lower tech part, which is why I suggested them.  As far as being out of date . . . a Large Laser still hits like a Large Laser, so the mech might be under-armed compared to a comparable modern equipment but it still works.

It's easier if you're making your own parts (At least in theory), but you tell me how easy it is to get parts of US Civil War guns on the open market

[Daryk]

Couldn't some of those be made by a blacksmith?

[Major Headcase]

I love the Primitive designs. As for source/replacements? Remember, the SLDF stovpckpiled obsolete gear on caches in the Periphery after the Reunification War, so it's conceivable a warlord on some half forgotten backwater stumbled on a outback jackpot! Also, the nature of Primitave parts means even fairly poor industrial capacity can make or retrofit most of what's missing. In my campaign, a half ruined 1st SW era tank factory on a small indie planet makes money cranking out heavy plate Primitive armor, Rocket Launchers, and AC/5s, and selling them to poor mercs and bandits for "protection".
Yes, they'd be old and worm like grandpa's trousers, but they could be kept running and still useful.

[Kitsune413]

Whatever I can get my hands on. My first mates been piloting a primitive griffin with no arms for weeks. Johnny the Butcher's gyro has been damaged. It's not even the fourth succession war and this whole thing is falling apart.

[JadedFalcon]

The flamer and machinegun variants of the Spider would fit in nicely, maybe as a commander for the bug mechs. The Javelin is another option, particularly the Fire Javelin since it no longer relies on missiles. Though rare, a stolen Davion Black Knight seems like a suitable pirate mech - hands for loot and no ammo to expend. If the game was in the Outworlds instead of the Concordant, I'd also recommend the Kuritan Hermes III, which has two hands and no ammo-based weapons.

Really like the notion of an Archer with no/minimal ammo used as a tank to wade into close combat. Maybe the classic Crusader would be a worthwhile pirate mech if you leave the missile bins empty, and rely only on the machineguns and lasers.

[Natasha Kerensky]

The capability to produce primitive technology may or may not exisst, depending on the era.  But as Jihad examples like the Rook show, establishing or reproducing a primitive technology production capability is easier than doing the same for introductory or higher levels of military technology.

I'd also note that things like industrial and commercial armor should be more widely produced and available than standard armor, regardless of era.

FWIW...

[SCC]

Couldn't some of those be made by a blacksmith?

Well first you'll need to FIND an actual blacksmith, which is probably harder then you'd think. Plus if any of the parts you need were machine made (not sure on chances of this) he'll need to find jigs and other tools to actually make the parts.

Compare this to a modern gun where parts are COTS. Sure if there's no gun production anywhere it MIGHT be easier to make the civil war gun, but it's pretty iffy, you'd need sample either way and modern weapons probably have better technical data lying around. Then there's the differences in refining technology, better hope that doesn't muck things up, as it did for the US with their nuclear program.

[Daryk]

I've heard blacksmiths in Afghanistan can make some parts for modern weapons, but you're probably right about needing a jig or some kind of template.

[JadeHellbringer]

Something else to consider about primitive tech.. yeah, it's not going to stand up to modern (3025) weaponry. Period.

You're also a pirate, so going toe-to-toe with the planetary militia is probably not what you're wanting to do anyway, at least if you're a SMART pirate. Take what you want and run like hell, right? What good does it do to beat on the enemy military? Even if you get a few kills, you probably take serious losses if you do- and while they can just request reinforcements from home in a few weeks, pirate losses are pretty permanent. Any replacements have to be stolen in yet another dangerous raid- and with less force than you had to begin with, so you're in a bad spiral now.

So. A smart pirate (so, one who lasts longer than a couple of months) will hit targets carefully. Things that aren't well defended, or that they can gain a significant advantage over. Maybe feint attacks to draw off defenders, or cause a disaster that forces the defenders to assist in relief efforts. Anything to reduce the number of guns pointed at them.

So if all you're facing is civilians and local police are your expected opponents, with militia forces a worst-case scenario (we're not even thinking about raiding somewhere that could have line military forces on-site because SMART PIRATE), ancient tech will work just fine- after all, a group of civvies with hunting rifles will have just as tough of a time against a primitive Shadow Hawk as they will against a 2H or 5D or whatever. As long as I don't get into a slugfest with the enemy defenses, all is well. (And if I do, at least make sure the modern-tech valuable stuff is what makes it back to the Dropship first- after all, that stuff is valuable!)

[Saint]

Another good Pirate mech around this time would be the Exterminator 4A. It's like a Quickdraw with more armor. ;D

[Wrangler]

Primitive tech would be good canon fodder as long as there was steady and inexpensive source for it.
Primitive = Commerical technology, thus why it would be popular if people had known.

If Succession Wars had been more knowledgeable about it.  Standard tech would be Star League technology in comparison to Primitive tech users that would properly be more common if wasn't completely forgotten about.

[Kitsune413]

Pirates. The Shadowrun game of Battletech.

[Kit deSummersville]

Standard 1V Locusts, standard Stingers, standard Wasps. All three are very common across the Inner Sphere and Periphery, and reasonably common among pirates (though badly maintained).

Pirates prefer Stingers to Locusts and Wasps (and Wolverines over Griffins and ShadowHawks) because the standard model is the R variant.

[Kitsune413]

Ouch Kit. *winces*

[cpip]

Pirates prefer Stingers to Locusts and Wasps (and Wolverines over Griffins and ShadowHawks) because the standard model is the R variant.

I'm embarrassed to say I didn't get it at first blush.

That's magnificently terrible.

[RunandFindOut]

Pirates prefer Stingers to Locusts and Wasps (and Wolverines over Griffins and ShadowHawks) because the standard model is the R variant.

Wut AARRRRR yee trying to say matey? ;)

[Daryk]

Too bad this thread wasn't up on Talk Like a Pirate day...  ::)

[Kovax]

There's a drastic difference between the ideal choice for a pirate 'Mech and what a pirate is most likely to have.  Typically, a pirate uses whatever is available, not what he (or she) would WANT to use.

The ideal would be for something reasonably fast with hands, primarily energy weapon oriented, with some anti-personnel capability.  Granted, not everything in the force would need to follow that format, but that would be the preferred "norm".  An Ostsol or Ostroc as the commander's ride checks off the speed, hands, and energy boxes, and would likely have another 'Mech armed with machineguns or other anti-personnel weapons working in close support to cover the last base.

Most likely, a pirate is going to either be running something that he was operating when the unit he was a part of went rogue, or else something under-guarded that he was able to steal.  Whether it was well suited for piracy or not will very likely have absolutely nothing to do with it.  Whether the pirates are able to modify their equipment to better suit their needs, or have no choice but to modify their equipment (resorting to things even less suitable for the task) just to keep it running at all, depends on the situation and the abilities of the pirates.

If the pirate unit is operating with a "letter of marque", with the tacit approval or even direct undercover support of a House, then it may be able to acquire more of what it wants, rather than suffer with whatever it has.  This obviously depends on the nature of their relationship to their patron, and the terms under which they are permitted to raid.

[JadeHellbringer]

Shiver me timbers, I'm banning Kit for that pun. Y'arrrr!  #P

[Wrangler]

Shiver me timbers, I'm banning Kit for that pun. Y'arrrr!  #P

Aye, he be punishing us with his puns. Time to walk that matey off the plank.